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Immigration and Usurpation: Elites, Power, and the People’s Will
Center for Immigration Studies ^ | July 2006 | Fredo Arias-King

Posted on 07/19/2006 9:28:43 AM PDT by AppleButter

Americans are aware that their political class may not always act in their best interest. This belief is enshrined in the American character, its laws, and the very philosophy underpinning the U.S. Constitution. The Founding Fathers crafted things so that the "knaves" will be forced to abide by the will of the people, but they warned that their "natural progress" is to find ways to remain in power and increase that power at the people’s expense. They therefore also urged eternal vigilance, spiritedness, and the occasional revolt of the people.

Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and others got it right—the knaves have, by and large, behaved, and their actions largely reflect in some way the will of the American people. Americans do not need to engage their politicians in an uncivil way—as happens most elsewhere—since the ballot box, the media, and other constitutional tools largely suffice. Indeed, the American political system works remarkably well. However, there are a handful of topics where the elites do not act in the interests of those they govern. Of these, the most notorious is the contentious issue of immigration. Why are politicians so keen on mass immigration while the common American is not? This has perplexed analysts.

When I aided the foreign relations of presidential candidate and president-elect Vicente Fox back in 1999 and 2000, I met with almost 80 U.S. congressmen and senators during numerous trips and at several events. With just over 50 of them, my colleagues and I spoke about immigration in some depth, as it is one of the important bilateral topics. My findings were reported in a Backgrounder published by the Center for Immigration Studies called "Politics by Other Means."1 It is a dense and academic paper, but the basic finding was: Indeed, American politicians are overwhelmingly pro-immigration, for a variety of reasons, and they do not always admit this to their constituents. Of those 50 legislators, 45 were unambiguously pro-immigration, even asking us at times to "send more." This was true of both Democrats and Republicans.

These empirical findings seemed to confirm what some analysts without that level of access termed as a political "perfect storm" of widespread political-elite support for immigration despite its general unpopularity with the average American. The paradox is that immigration is the only issue (perhaps besides trade policy) that represents a notorious discrepancy between elite and popular opinion in the United States.2 But this contradicts the established conventional wisdom of a representative democracy such as the United States. If mass immigration from Latin America has debatable benefits for the United States as a whole, if a majority of the American people is against it, and if immigrants cannot vote until they become naturalized (which can take years after their arrival), why would nine-tenths of the legislators we spoke with be so keen on increasing immigration?

Before these encounters, I believed that it was a problem of either diffusion of responsibility, "creeping non-decision," or collective rationalization with those legislators, but that was dispelled the more of them we met. Most of them seemed to be aware of the negative or at least doubtful consequences of mass immigration from Latin America, while still advocating mass immigration.3

The familiar reasons usually discussed by the critics were there: Democrats wanted increased immigration because Latin American immigrants tend to vote Democrat once naturalized (we did not meet a single Democrat that was openly against mass immigration); and Republicans like immigration because their sponsors (businesses and churches) do. But there were other, more nuanced reasons that we came upon, usually not discussed by the critics, and probably more difficult to detect without the type of access that we, as a Mexican delegation, had.

Their "Natural Progress"

Of a handful of motivations, one of the main ones (even if unconscious) of many of these legislators can be found in what the U.S. Founding Fathers called "usurpation." Madison, Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay and others devised a system and embedded the Constitution with mechanisms to thwart the "natural" tendency of the political class to usurp power—to become a permanent elite lording over pauperized subjects, as was the norm in Europe at the time. However, the Founding Fathers seem to have based the logic of their entire model on the independent character of the American folk. After reviewing the different mechanisms and how they would work in theory, they wrote in the Federalist Papers that in the end, "If it be asked, what is to restrain the House of Representatives from making legal discriminations in favor of themselves and a particular class of the society? I answer: the genius of the whole system; the nature of just and constitutional laws; and above all, the vigilant and manly spirit which actuates the people of America …"4 With all his emphasis on reason and civic virtue as the basis of a functioning and decentralized democratic polity, Jefferson speculated whether Latin American societies could be governed thus.5

While Democratic legislators we spoke with welcomed the Latino vote, they seemed more interested in those immigrants and their offspring as a tool to increase the role of the government in society and the economy. Several of them tended to see Latin American immigrants and even Latino constituents as both more dependent on and accepting of active government programs and the political class guaranteeing those programs, a point they emphasized more than the voting per se. Moreover, they saw Latinos as more loyal and "dependable" in supporting a patron-client system and in building reliable patronage networks to circumvent the exigencies of political life as devised by the Founding Fathers and expected daily by the average American.

Republican lawmakers we spoke with knew that naturalized Latin American immigrants and their offspring vote mostly for the Democratic Party, but still most of them (all except five) were unambiguously in favor of amnesty and of continued mass immigration (at least from Mexico). This seemed paradoxical, and explaining their motivations was more challenging. However, while acknowledging that they may not now receive their votes, they believed that these immigrants are more malleable than the existing American: That with enough care, convincing, and "teaching," they could be converted, be grateful, and become dependent on them. Republicans seemed to idealize the patron-client relation with Hispanics as much as their Democratic competitors did. Curiously, three out of the five lawmakers that declared their opposition to amnesty and increased immigration (all Republicans), were from border states.

Also curiously, the Republican enthusiasm for increased immigration also was not so much about voting in the end, even with "converted" Latinos. Instead, these legislators seemingly believed that they could weaken the restraining and frustrating straightjacket devised by the Founding Fathers and abetted by American norms. In that idealized "new" United States, political uncertainty, demanding constituents, difficult elections, and accountability in general would "go away" after tinkering with the People, who have given lawmakers their privileges but who, like a Sword of Damocles, can also "unfairly" take them away. Hispanics would acquiesce and assist in the "natural progress" of these legislators to remain in power and increase the scope of that power. In this sense, Republicans and Democrats were similar.

While I can recall many accolades for the Mexican immigrants and for Mexican-Americans (one white congressman even gave me a "high five" when recalling that Californian Hispanics were headed for majority status), I remember few instances when a legislator spoke well of his or her white constituents. One even called them "rednecks," and apologized to us on their behalf for their incorrect attitude on immigration. Most of them seemed to advocate changing the ethnic composition of the United States as an end in itself. Jefferson and Madison would have perhaps understood why this is so—enthusiasm for mass immigration seems to be correlated with examples of undermining the "just and constitutional laws" they devised.

One leading Republican senator over a period of months was advising us, through a mutual acquaintance, about which mechanisms to follow and which other legislators to lobby in order to ensure passage of the amnesty proposal. In the meantime, he would speak on television about the need to "militarize" the border. This senator was recently singled out by a taxpayer’s advocacy group as a leader in "pork"-related politics.

Bill Richardson, who had served in Clinton’s cabinet and later became governor of New Mexico, kindly stopped to speak to our delegation at the Democratic National Convention in Los Angeles. He commented favorably to us: "What do Hispanics want? Fully funded government programs!" The Economist mentioned about his state:

New Mexico is a poor place, with one of the highest proportion of people living on food stamps … Its political tradition also long had a Latin American feel, based around a padrón system of clients and bosses. The bosses ran grocery stores, gave you credit, helped you if you needed a job. And all you had to do was vote for the Democrats … New Mexican politics is still about jobs, contracts and personal loyalty, not ideology. And Mr. Richardson personifies this.6

Trailer-park poverty combined with a cult of personality, where government initiatives regularly bear the governor’s name, as they would with some Latin American potentate (the governor is half Mexican himself), prevails in a state that is 40 percent Hispanic, including Hispanics already many generations in the United States.

Those that have come out supporting amnesty are also associated with other attempts to undermine the Jeffersonian and Madisonian model of democracy. Sen. Arlen Specter, for instance, a leading supporter of amnesty, years ago proposed another bill that would have changed the outcome of elections based on quotas, whereby electoral outcomes could be changed by a federal judge.7

MORE


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: aliens; biggovernment; bushmotivation; dependentclass; immigrantlist; immigration; usurpation; welfare
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To: FlyVet
I'm tempted to think anyone who wants to be a politician is suspect. We are being brainwashed to accept corruption, just as the Mexicans are. And many of the Repubs are just as guilty.

As bad as all that is and yes the republicans are just as bad, I think the corruption is secondary. I think the first thing we need to do is figure out a way or several ways to try and work against this open border/guestworker/scamnesty crap, and the sooner the better.

Since the three branches of government are not listening to 'we the people', and even when they 'pretend' to, they are just trying to pacify us into a false sense of security, we need to look at all options to stop this ASAP!

51 posted on 11/11/2006 6:09:45 AM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: Liz
I would add that Mexico is a satrap ruled by a despotic government-of-the-wealthy ............The same can almost be said of USA!
52 posted on 11/11/2006 6:17:36 AM PST by varon (Allegiance to the constitution, always. Allegiance to a political party, never.)
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To: AppleButter
(one white congressman even gave me a "high five" when recalling that Californian Hispanics were headed for majority status)... One even called them "rednecks," and apologized to us on their behalf for their incorrect attitude on immigration. Most of them seemed to advocate changing the ethnic composition of the United States as an end in itself.

Speechless.

53 posted on 11/11/2006 6:25:42 AM PST by Fraulein
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To: AppleButter
Democrats wanted increased immigration because Latin American immigrants tend to vote Democrat once naturalized (we did not meet a single Democrat that was openly against mass immigration);

Yes, Mr. Snow quickly made it clear that with the Democrats running the Congress that we will see a general amnesty swiftly coming down the pike.

I would have used the phrase "unseemly haste" rather than "quickly" except that truly President Bush has been fixated on this subject, and it was certainly no surprise that Mr. Snow broached the subject so quickly.

I find their eagerness incomprehensible: legal immigrants are made to jump through numerous hoops, but these people who are committing blatantly criminal acts are going to be made citizens lickety-split?

54 posted on 11/11/2006 6:36:40 AM PST by snowsislander
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To: snowsislander
I find their eagerness incomprehensible: legal immigrants are made to jump through numerous hoops, but these people who are committing blatantly criminal acts are going to be made citizens lickety-split?

Why? It is simple. Law abiding people are less useful.

55 posted on 11/11/2006 6:45:25 AM PST by A. Pole (Joanne Senier-LaBarre: "We Wish You a Swinging Holiday!")
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To: AppleButter; All

Shamnesty. Pushing for 20+ million future dumocrats and their dependents to have a "pathway to citizenship. GWB will succeed in dismantling what is left of the Republican party, piece by piece, bit by bit. It's simple mathematics....look what happens in 2012, 2016, 2020.

Anyone out there have a plan to make 30+ million future republicans and their dependents materialize out of thin air?

I didn't think so.

We've got a 20% -30% chance to get "our guy" into the white house in 2008. After that, stick a fork in us, we're done for at least a generation.

Please, prove me wrong...Please.


56 posted on 11/11/2006 6:50:04 AM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: Netizen

"...while ours is eroding beyond repair."

"Eroding" makes it sound as if it is a natural process. This is happening with the support of both political parties. It is nothing less than an assault on the taxpayer / citizens of the US by elites.


57 posted on 11/11/2006 6:53:32 AM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: Netizen
"Mexicans are kind and hardworking, with a legendary hospitality..."


Been to LA lately?


If that is any indication of the effect of Mexicans on emigrating into the US population, thanks but no thanks.
58 posted on 11/11/2006 6:56:19 AM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: jpsb
thanks for the reseach!

No problem, glad to do it. It seems that Applebutter was banned or suspended, though I don't know when.

I just wish that this thread would have gotten more traction when it was first posted in July. I also wish that I knew of a means to prevent the cascade I see coming. The third section has some viable options to work with. Here is one:

Moreover, those who challenge through extra-legal means the extra-constitutional and fait accompli pro-immigration methods of the elites would, paradoxically, be abiding more by the spirit and even letter of the U.S. Constitution than the political class being targeted by them. The Federalist Papers are replete with this philosophy. If they do so effectively, the reaction of the U.S. Congress may be the same as it was for the Pennsylvania legislature in the aftermath of the pay-raise scandal. Both policies are difficult to defend openly and publicly with an engaged citizenry.

Okay, so we have legal recourse. Anyone know if this particular section means we can take it to the Supreme Court? Would our complaints have to go through state court(s) first?

59 posted on 11/11/2006 7:21:32 AM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: A. Pole

We haven't reached that point yet. There are still things that can be done. However, there's no doubt that this can't go on indefinitely without undermining the nation.


60 posted on 11/11/2006 7:39:12 AM PST by Clintonfatigued (Corporatism is not conservatism)
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To: raybbr
While Democratic legislators we spoke with welcomed the Latino vote, they seemed more interested in those immigrants and their offspring as a tool to increase the role of the government in society and the economy.

Anchor babies are the target of the left. They know that baby juanita and juan are going to vote in rewards for padre and madre when they become eligible to vote. The anchor baby vote will be the death of the U.S.

A lot of anchor babies are already voting. The real downside is that a lot of these anchor babies' parents were granted amnesty years ago. The past 20 years worth of anchor babies are getting ready to vote and when the scamnesty goes through, we will be done. They will all be legal and elligible to vote. The republican party is a hollow shell. It's there just for looks, like the foam on a beer, it is all fluff and no substance.

61 posted on 11/11/2006 7:40:33 AM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: raybbr
While Democratic legislators we spoke with welcomed the Latino vote, they seemed more interested in those immigrants and their offspring as a tool to increase the role of the government in society and the economy.

I meant to add something else to my previous post to you.

'to increase the role of government in society and the economy'.

With the increase of illegals 4.4% (average) and 7% unemployment in some areas, I'm not sure how the government thinks they will be able to create jobs for everyone.

62 posted on 11/11/2006 7:54:40 AM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: varon
I would add that Mexico is a satrap ruled by a despotic government-of-the-wealthy

............The same can almost be said of USA!

There's a reason for that, they are deliberately trying to emulate them.

63 posted on 11/11/2006 8:30:19 AM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: Netizen

It is an historical fact that the ruling class of just any society fear the middle class and seek ways of curtailing the growth and power of a middle class. The genius of the American system uptil LBJ was that it encouraged a ruling middle class! Unique in all history. Well it has taken the elite 200 years but they have finally figured out how to kill the American middle class and it uppity Constitution.


64 posted on 11/11/2006 8:54:57 AM PST by jpsb
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To: snowsislander
I would have used the phrase "unseemly haste" rather than "quickly" except that truly President Bush has been fixated on this subject, and it was certainly no surprise that Mr. Snow broached the subject so quickly. I find their eagerness incomprehensible: legal immigrants are made to jump through numerous hoops, but these people who are committing blatantly criminal acts are going to be made citizens lickety-split?

We need to prevent this.

What about filing suit? Too bad the ACLU represents the illegals. /sarcasm

We need a good Constitutional lawyer. If we can present a reasonable case outlining various ways that the government (all branches) is abandoning its constitutional duties, the court could stop the bill long enough for more organized resistance to develop against it.

65 posted on 11/11/2006 9:27:27 AM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: AppleButter

Usurpation is always with us. Take note of who is attempting to usurpt what. It's going to be a lengthy list.


66 posted on 11/11/2006 9:30:21 AM PST by RightWhale (RTRA DLQS GSCW)
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To: A. Pole
Why? It is simple. Law abiding people are less useful.

They want people that don't think. We used to joke or comment about how the dems wanted to keep blacks on the plantation. Little did we know that it was both parties that wanted to keep all of us on the plantation.

67 posted on 11/11/2006 9:36:11 AM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: AppleButter

BUMP!


68 posted on 11/11/2006 9:57:08 AM PST by Paul Ross (We cannot be for lawful ordinances and for an alien conspiracy at one and the same moment.-Cicero)
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To: taxed2death
Shamnesty. Pushing for 20+ million future dumocrats and their dependents to have a "pathway to citizenship. GWB will succeed in dismantling what is left of the Republican party, piece by piece, bit by bit. It's simple mathematics....look what happens in 2012, 2016, 2020.

We don't even have to wait that long. 2008

Anyone out there have a plan to make 30+ million future republicans and their dependents materialize out of thin air?

Instead why not try and preven tthe present scam and force the government to deal with the lawbreakers already in our country?

69 posted on 11/11/2006 10:14:30 AM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: Netizen
Instead why not try and preven tthe present scam and force the government to deal with the lawbreakers already in our country?

Thats the answer!
70 posted on 11/11/2006 10:17:29 AM PST by hedgetrimmer (I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: taxed2death
"Eroding" makes it sound as if it is a natural process. This is happening with the support of both political parties. It is nothing less than an assault on the taxpayer / citizens of the US by elites.

You're absolutely right, of course and it is an assault on the taxpayer/citizens. It is also discriminatory of other nations whose people try to immigrate lawfully and it disenfranchises American citizens that could be doing those jobs. Let's face it, if we didn't have 20-30% of our paychecks going to taxes, we too could afford to work for lesser wages.

What happens when scamnesty goes through? Does the government really think that the illegals WANT to keep those jobs? No. They don't really want those jobs either, but, just like American citizens that used to do those before they were taken by illegals, those jobs are for people that are in between jobs, or even new to the work force like teenagers, or people that are just traveling through. Some people still like to drift around and 'find themselves'.

At any rate, once legalized the newly legal immigrants are going to *gasp* want to get better jobs and being legal they will need to start paying taxes and OH MY that paycheck is going to dwindle and not be enough. They will need better paying jobs, like the 4-7% of already unemployed citizens.

So, the newly legal immigrants move up and another flood of illegals start to poor over the border to fill the openings left in 'jobs that Americans won't do BS' category.

It's time to end the cycle.

71 posted on 11/11/2006 10:49:42 AM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: Clintonfatigued
We haven't reached that point yet. There are still things that can be done. However, there's no doubt that this can't go on indefinitely without undermining the nation.

No disrespect intended, but I think we are perilously close to the point of no return.

72 posted on 11/11/2006 11:24:19 AM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: Netizen

"So, the newly legal immigrants move up and another flood of illegals start to poor over the border to fill the openings left in 'jobs that Americans won't do BS' category."

You forgot to mention the criminal activity that so many illegal aliens engage in. I suppose they're committing crimes that Americans won't commit.


73 posted on 11/11/2006 11:27:04 AM PST by Clintonfatigued (Corporatism is not conservatism)
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To: Liz; All
......."These scofflaws and criminals do not only want American jobs, they also want all the rights of American Citizens with the intent to inflict upon us the failed customs, politics, and ignorance that frame the foundation of Mexico’s class-conscious tyranny, universal lawlessness and eternal poverty"........

They're getting their wish, thanks to our government who allows it.

If anyone is interested in seeing a typical "work camp" of illegal aliens in California, you know, those people who gather our crops, go to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBHs0sETasY

Be sure to have an old pan ready, it will make you sick.

74 posted on 11/11/2006 11:27:48 AM PST by janetgreen
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To: jpsb
It is an historical fact that the ruling class of just any society fear the middle class and seek ways of curtailing the growth and power of a middle class. The genius of the American system uptil LBJ was that it encouraged a ruling middle class! Unique in all history. Well it has taken the elite 200 years but they have finally figured out how to kill the American middle class and it uppity Constitution.

We really need to try and prevent it. Make a list of all the ways in which it is unconstitutional and discriminatory.

75 posted on 11/11/2006 11:59:54 AM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: janetgreen

If anyone is interested in seeing a typical "work camp" of illegal aliens in California, you know, those people who gather our crops, go to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBHs0sETasY

Be sure to have an old pan ready, it will make you sick.

______
Thanks, I'll get my barf bag and check it out.


76 posted on 11/11/2006 12:03:35 PM PST by WatchingInAmazement ("Nothing is more expensive than cheap labor," prof. Vernon Briggs, labor economist Cornell Un.)
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To: hedgetrimmer
Thats the answer!

Any suggestions on how to go about doing that?

77 posted on 11/11/2006 1:09:46 PM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: Clintonfatigued
You forgot to mention the criminal activity that so many illegal aliens engage in. I suppose they're committing crimes that Americans won't commit.

You're right, that's something else would could point out. Anyone else stealing someone else's identity by using their social security numbers would be in deep trouble, yet the government turns a blind eye to illegals that do it. Identity theft should be punished not rewarded.

78 posted on 11/11/2006 1:50:03 PM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: Netizen

Yes I do.


79 posted on 11/11/2006 3:42:32 PM PST by hedgetrimmer (I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: hedgetrimmer

What's your suggestion?


80 posted on 11/11/2006 4:12:01 PM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: texastoo
"While Democratic legislators we spoke with welcomed the Latino vote, they seemed more interested in those immigrants and their offspring as a tool to increase the role of the government in society and the economy. Several of them tended to see Latin American immigrants and even Latino constituents as both more dependent on and accepting of active government programs and the political class guaranteeing those programs, a point they emphasized more than the voting per se. Moreover, they saw Latinos as more loyal and "dependable" in supporting a patron-client system and in building reliable patronage networks to circumvent the exigencies of political life as devised by the Founding Fathers and expected daily by the average American.

"Also curiously, the Republican enthusiasm for increased immigration also was not so much about voting in the end, even with "converted" Latinos. Instead, these legislators seemingly believed that they could weaken the restraining and frustrating straightjacket devised by the Founding Fathers and abetted by American norms. In that idealized "new" United States, political uncertainty, demanding constituents, difficult elections, and accountability in general would "go away" after tinkering with the People, who have given lawmakers their privileges but who, like a Sword of Damocles, can also "unfairly" take them away. Hispanics would acquiesce and assist in the "natural progress" of these legislators to remain in power and increase the scope of that power. In this sense, Republicans and Democrats were similar."

So, as usual, when it comes to power, perks and privileges, there is little difference between the Rats and the Republicans. They want to replace the white American voter with a more servile, beholden class of ethnic voters. After all, us loyal Americans keep talking about that pesky Constitution.

There are a few, and only a few, of our politicians who deserve to escape the rope...

81 posted on 11/11/2006 4:50:04 PM PST by Czar ( StillFedUptotheTeeth@Washington)
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To: Netizen

What legal means do citizens have to reign in rogue politician and outright traitors?


82 posted on 11/11/2006 7:03:17 PM PST by hedgetrimmer (I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: hedgetrimmer
What legal means do citizens have to reign in rogue politician and outright traitors?

Yeah, that's the question.

83 posted on 11/11/2006 7:17:57 PM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: Netizen
Recall, impeachment, criminal proceedings. Do you know the DA in your county, the Sheriff? Will they respond to the citizens in your county? Counties are the place to start, they are the most local entity of constitutional government. Some people have city or town councils, the unincorporated rely on county government. Time for the counties, the county sheriffs, to act to preserve constitutional government, they have a duty to do so.
84 posted on 11/11/2006 8:15:52 PM PST by hedgetrimmer (I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: Netizen

Have you ever studied the Klamath Basin crisis? How about the citizens of Jarbridge and their shovel brigade? Good place to start.


85 posted on 11/11/2006 8:20:59 PM PST by hedgetrimmer (I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: hedgetrimmer
Recall,

Its a possibility, but too much time has passed for it to be truly effective. imo

impeachment

Has to be started by the House.

criminal proceedings.

Same as impeachment??

Do you know the DA in your county, the Sheriff? Will they respond to the citizens in your county? Counties are the place to start, they are the most local entity of constitutional government. Some people have city or town councils, the unincorporated rely on county government. Time for the counties, the county sheriffs, to act to preserve constitutional government, they have a duty to do so.

Its a possibility, but in your opinion how successful do you think this option would be?

86 posted on 11/11/2006 8:36:38 PM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: hedgetrimmer

Only vaguely familiar.


87 posted on 11/11/2006 8:38:13 PM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: Netizen
Has to be started by the House

Who does the House represent?
88 posted on 11/11/2006 11:56:48 PM PST by hedgetrimmer (I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: dalereed
When I got back to Loretto the next day the comandante was in jail.

Any mordita is supposed to be split half to his superior and that half to his superior until it reaches Mexico City.

So, this is the Mexican form of multi-level marketing.

89 posted on 11/12/2006 1:12:27 AM PST by Colorado Buckeye (It's the culture stupid!)
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To: hedgetrimmer
Who does the House represent?

Themselves.

90 posted on 11/12/2006 6:10:31 AM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: Netizen

That is one thing citizens can fix.

Now here's another...


Gaston: No funds for illegal residents

Gaston County commissioners have directed county officials to stop funding programs for undocumented immigrants in what marks the Charlotte region's most aggressive measure against illegal immigration.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/15986433.htm


91 posted on 11/12/2006 8:20:11 AM PST by hedgetrimmer (I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: hedgetrimmer
That is one thing citizens can fix.

I think it's too late to fix the present parties and it will be a while before a third is viable. It may be too late to do anything about it through political channels at the national level anymore.

Gaston: No funds for illegal residents

Yes, I mentioned in another thread a few says back, that I think the states need to act immediately regarding illegals. But again, when the PINO sign that guest worker scamnesty, then it will too late. It will be a done deal because all those millions will be voting against us, EVEN AT THE STATE LEVEL.

92 posted on 11/12/2006 9:39:19 AM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: Netizen
I think it's too late

Might as well join the voluntary human extinction movement then.
93 posted on 11/12/2006 10:05:25 AM PST by hedgetrimmer (I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: hedgetrimmer

Facts are facts. Whne his scamnesty goes through they will have the numbers against us. I didn't volunteer for that, its just the way the numbers shake out after the shake down.


94 posted on 11/12/2006 11:06:06 AM PST by Netizen (When the PINO signs his beloved scamnesty bill, the GOP officially dies and the Bush legacy is set.)
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To: jpsb
Well it has taken the elite 200 years but they have finally figured out how to kill the American middle class and it uppity Constitution.

You have hit the nail on the head. America's political culture is being undermined, deliberately. Immigrants know nothing of our history - Thomas Paine, Patrick Henry, the Declaration of Independence, the Federalist Papers, the Constitution and Bill of Rights, the Emancipation Proclamation, the 14th Amendment, and so on. They don't understand, and so cannot value, their freedom. They make perfect serfs.

95 posted on 11/12/2006 11:41:53 AM PST by tvdog12345
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To: Netizen
Whne his scamnesty goes through they will have the numbers against us.

When or if?
96 posted on 11/12/2006 11:43:45 AM PST by hedgetrimmer (I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: tvdog12345
That and let's not forget dumbing down of public schools, two tactics aimed at making Americans ignorant of their history and thus more easily lead into serfdom.
97 posted on 11/12/2006 11:47:38 AM PST by jpsb
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To: hedgetrimmer
The ruling class is willing to toss away the nation just to keep the Federal government solvent. The pyramid scheme (SS, medicare) needs more players or it will collaspe.
98 posted on 11/12/2006 11:51:02 AM PST by jpsb
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To: jpsb

Let it collapse. Lets take our medicine so we can be free again.


99 posted on 11/12/2006 12:01:41 PM PST by hedgetrimmer (I'm a millionaire thanks to the WTO and "free trade" system--Hu Jintao top 10 worst dictators)
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To: hedgetrimmer
I agree, get the hard times over with and go back to being a free independent nation.
100 posted on 11/12/2006 12:09:28 PM PST by jpsb
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