Immigration surprise: broad agreement, not polarization

Townhall.com ^ | July 19. 2006 | Medved

[Old Professer]

More BS from the usual sources; 94% of 12 million employed would be unprecedented when we consider that at least 25% of the total are either under employable age or over the usual retirement age and another 10% are likely disabled or saddled with too many responsibilities to hold down a job.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

At any rate, nothing is going to be accomplished this legislative session, it appears.:

That's just fine with me. Compromising with the likes of Ted Kennedy and Dick Durbin is not good politics, unless you're a liberal pushing liberal policies that is.

[catholicfreeper]

The problem is it has become apparent to many that if border enforcement is enacted there will be no dealing with it later. As FAIR and others ay America is full. Also that still doesnt deal with the problems with the people here that have families especially. It really doesn't deal in a honest way with the need for some workers in certain industries.So I really think we AMericans can walk and chew gum at the same time and come up with a plan that attacks all of this. We can do some amazing things when we put our mind to it

[Jameison]

"There will be no imprisonment for employers. That is not in any current bill"

I didn't say there was, but maybe there should be.

"The "starve them out" approach will not work. ICE has estimated it will take five to seven years to come up with a foolproof ID system that will identify who should be here and who should not. What do you do in the interim?"

No starving. You lose your job and go home, like millions of Americans do every year.
ICE is one of the reasons we have this problem in the first place.
Other countries have very strong public ID systems, including a very good one in Singapore, and in France, where everyone has to carry the "Carte D'identite".
Why can't we simply borrow from them?
Why do we eve have to develop one?

[catholicfreeper]

Well, I hope your wrong as to there being no bill this year. But you are probally right. It is a lose/lose on all sides of the debate. Again I hope it doesnt come to that. I swear when I ask people if they have problems with a guest worker program most say no. When I ask them if they have problems with people becoming citizens 12 to 15 years later if they do all the stuff that is mentioned most say no problem. It is a shame that there will be no bill because of a hangup on what is called "amnesty" which according to polls and my interaction with people have no problem with as proposed

[american spirit]

This doesn't make any sense.......how are people who've been working "off the books" for cash going to determine how much tax they owe?.......plus does anyone really believe that these illegals will leave jobs or their welfare/education benefits for any length of time to go home and wait for the "go" signal to come back across?.......anyone that falls for this nonsense is clueless.

[afnamvet]

The fact is, there is little political will to go aggressively after employers who, with illegals, are supplying fruits and vegetables, cleaning hotel rooms and office buildings, and performing other services.

I can not recall the thread that stated that there were signs that day workers have banded together to demand hourly wages of $15.00/hour. Not really a good move as employers will seek out new illegal alien arrivals to work for less.

I've also read where certain wine producers in Napa, CA are having trouble finding workers to cut their grapes. Seems the underground illegal alien starting wage demand has gone up.

[catholicfreeper]

Who is proposing Amnesty? You know if I remember right Licoln gave a Amnesty to the old confederate soliders and citizens of the south for what was regarded as Treason at the time. Now that is amnesty. He did not say yall need to pay fines, pay back taxes, take a course in American Civics and 12 to 15 years you can become citizens.

Likewise I don't remeber similar qulifications when Carter gave Amnesty to the Vietnam Deserters.

So if there is some amnesty program out there being proosed, I don't see it

[sinkspur]

Other countries have very strong public ID systems, including a very good one in Singapore, and in France, where everyone has to carry the "Carte D'identite".

As you know, there are quite a few on the "kick 'em all out" side who would scream like stuck pigs if the government forced them to present a formal ID to get a job.

We would have already had one by now if it had not been for some of the kookburgers on the far right who think Wal-Mart is tracking them through bar codes on razor blades.

[mthom]

56% of illegal aliens are Mexican. 25% of illegal are from latin and central america. 9% are from Asia. 6% are from Europe. 4% from the rest of the world. REPEAT 9% percent are from all of Asia. All the different numbers Ive seen have been similar to these.

[catholicfreeper]

As to taxes there will have be some guidelines set for that. As for illegals going home. I prefer a plan well within a certain amount of weeks every illegal must register at their local sherrifs office or appropriate local agency. Failure to do so results in ommediate deportation when found unless if perhaps a person was in the hospital. There is the Pence proposal for a Ellis Island program. I am not thrilled with that since it really seems such a headache and waste of money and a disruption to the workforce.Seems it could just be done locally But if people wnat to do it that way fine.

[Jameison]

"The fact is, there is little political will to go aggressively after employers who, with illegals, are supplying fruits and vegetables, cleaning hotel rooms and office buildings, and performing other services."


There is plenty of political will alright, just not in the Bush administration.
But with immigration set to become one of the top issues for 2008, the political will is going to come alright, or we'll simply elect those who will do what the people want.


"Medved's right about the latest polls: they all show majority opinion favoring a guest worker program and a route to citizenship for at least some of those currently here. "


Medved set out to write a pro-amnesty column, and found "polls" to support his agenda.
Fine.
But why should I be buying what he's selling?



"At any rate, nothing is going to be accomplished this legislative session, it appears"

Thank God for that.


"After the election, Bush is going to drop the entire subject of immigration, as will Congress. There might be some additional border measures enacted, but what you see now is what you're going to have a year from now"

That's not entirely bad.
We don't get to give amnesty to a bunch of foreign invaders.
Plus 20 states have already passed tough anti-illegal immigrant laws, not to mention cities, counties etc.
As the problem worsens, more states, cities, counties etc are going to make their laws to deal with this problem as it affects them.
The Senate bill would have screwed all these states up.

[catholicfreeper]

Yeah I will send a email to medved asking where he got that number. But 9 percent is pretty big. My understanding most are from asia. China being the homeof origin to most

[Reaganwuzthebest]

As you know, there are quite a few on the "kick 'em all out" side who would scream like stuck pigs if the government forced them to present a formal ID to get a job.

Nobody seems to be making a stink in Hazelton, Pa. In fact, the citizens have been giving the mayor there a standing ovation for pushing through the exact same laws you want us to believe so many would be up in arms about.

[sinkspur]

But with immigration set to become one of the top issues for 2008, the political will is going to come alright, or we'll simply elect those who will do what the people want.

Immigration is not going to even be a top issue in 2006, much less in 2008.

If it were going to be an issue this year, a bill would be passed. Most Americans are not even thinking about immigration any more, two months after huge marches by illegals.

[catholicfreeper]

He is not qwriting a pro amnesty column. It seems to me that Republicans can come up with a just solution or perhaps the Dems might take a stab at it if and when they regain power. IF the Republican party keeps alienating the Hispanic community then the Dems will take advantage of that when they get in. There will be a law passed so quick that gives real amnesty that will make your head spin. I suggest looking at these polls and not just dismissing them out of hand. It seems the majority want a comprehensive solution. One question is who will recieve that political benifit.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

In other words, the “comprehensive” approach leaves it up to the immigrant himself, ultimately, as to whether he will achieve legal status and remain in the country.

The “enforcement only” approach also lets the immigrant himself decide whether to go or to stay, but instead of rewarding good behavior (paying fines, learning English, working steadily, following the law) it rewards bad behavior (defying legal rules, continuing to work in the untaxed, unregulated underground economy).

I see the difference in intentions here, but both solutions look like they'll keep folks with bad behavior here.

People want to pay fines and learn English?? Wouldn't they have come here legally then?