Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Have You Hugged a Hummer Today? (Piercing the Hybrid Hype)
Reason ^ | Shikha Dalmia

Posted on 07/19/2006 1:33:07 PM PDT by Uncledave

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-54 next last
Shikha Dalmia


1 posted on 07/19/2006 1:33:12 PM PDT by Uncledave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Uncledave

It is amazing what a little research and common sense will do isn't it?


2 posted on 07/19/2006 1:38:12 PM PDT by vpintheak (All other ground is sinking sand.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave

I love her article and I think I love her...


3 posted on 07/19/2006 1:40:09 PM PDT by ConservativeMind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave

Great writer and beautiful to boot!


4 posted on 07/19/2006 1:42:06 PM PDT by Panzerfaust
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave
.....just doin my part for the environment.....

.....(LOL).....

5 posted on 07/19/2006 1:42:19 PM PDT by cyberaxe (((.....does this mean I'm kewl now?.....)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave
But the biggest reason why a Hummer's energy use is so low is that it shares many components with other vehicles and therefore its design and development energy costs are spread across many cars.

It is not possible to do this with a specialty product like hybrid.

This is somewhat bogus logic. It implies that if nearly all cars were hybrids, they be the cheapest ones and Hummers would be "speciality".

We can't avoid adotping new things simply because they are not common yet!

I AM NO FAN OF HYBRIDS....just commenting on her logic.

6 posted on 07/19/2006 1:45:25 PM PDT by Onelifetogive (Freerepublic - The website where "Freepers" is not in the spell checker dictionary...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave

Gotta love it. Put a bumper sticker on that Hummer, too.

"This vehicle powered by organic fuel"

Crude oil is an organic substance, isn't it?


7 posted on 07/19/2006 1:46:53 PM PDT by watchin (Facts irritate liberals)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave
Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
8 posted on 07/19/2006 1:46:56 PM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Onelifetogive

Ture. It's a serious flaw with her piece.


9 posted on 07/19/2006 1:47:32 PM PDT by Uncledave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave

Wow, ten posts and no "hummer" comment regarding her picture.


10 posted on 07/19/2006 1:48:30 PM PDT by Uncledave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Onelifetogive
But then every luxury could be justified by your logic.

What is, is. Her logic is totally valid. If a new valve came out that cost nothing more to produce, but doubled fuel mileage, then that would work with both her logic and yours.

Everything else costs more and makes your position untenable.
11 posted on 07/19/2006 1:48:32 PM PDT by ConservativeMind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: vpintheak

The Post mentions the Chevy Aveo. The car sells for less than half what a Toyota costs and gets comparable gas mileage.

Too bad that General Motors dosnt make that car in the United States. They import it from South Korea. Why doesnt General Motors build it here? Why dont they a fuel economical Diesel on the market?


12 posted on 07/19/2006 1:49:04 PM PDT by sgtbono2002 (The fourth estate is a fifth column.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave

I love hummers, both kinds.


13 posted on 07/19/2006 1:49:23 PM PDT by HEY4QDEMS (Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave

Phhhhhdddttttt Bill Ford! You guys build more humungous hippo vehicles than anybody.


14 posted on 07/19/2006 1:49:43 PM PDT by RoadTest (Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just, and this be our motto: in God is our trust.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave
mega-million dollar ad campaign

Hmmmmm.....

Do we really believe that Ford was planning to spend $1 trillion on an ad campaign?

Gotta love those media types who think words like "mega" are nothing more than meaningless superlatives....

15 posted on 07/19/2006 1:50:45 PM PDT by r9etb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave

Bill Ford - Idiot


16 posted on 07/19/2006 1:51:58 PM PDT by lormand (Kill terrorists on the battlefield)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sgtbono2002
Why doesnt General Motors build it here?

Like the other big American auto manufacturers, they build plants in countries with non-union exploitable labor to offset losses generated by American plants with unionized overpaid labor.
17 posted on 07/19/2006 1:52:30 PM PDT by HEY4QDEMS (Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: sgtbono2002

"Why doesnt General Motors build it here? Why dont they a fuel economical Diesel on the market?"

Because UAW labor costs would put the cost in the Impala range. Still want an American Aveo?

"Why dont they a fuel economical Diesel on the market?"

Diesels are very bad for our lungs. Particulates = soot. How much soot do you want in the air you breathe?


18 posted on 07/19/2006 1:52:43 PM PDT by RoadTest (Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just, and this be our motto: in God is our trust.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Onelifetogive
But the biggest reason why a Hummer's energy use is so low is that it shares many components with other vehicles and therefore its design and development energy costs are spread across many cars. It is not possible to do this with a specialty product like hybrid.

I agree with your point. It seems that hybrids are still expensive because the technology is new. I'm not ready for to go back to 4 cylinders and plastic yet but it seems the time will come when they will be cost effective...just not now. Let the wealthy folk like Al Gore and Tom Friedman keep the market going and reduce the costs. ;-)

19 posted on 07/19/2006 1:52:47 PM PDT by rhombus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: All
Frankly, I don't care what she thinks. Hummers s*ck!
20 posted on 07/19/2006 1:54:39 PM PDT by newgeezer ("Hezbollah" is deceptive. The accurate translation is "Hezb'Allah"; it means 'party of Allah')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: Uncledave

I have no desire to buy a hybrid but this is some pretty tortured logic. A Hummer is expensive to buy, expensive to operate, and, a fact that I don't see in here, has the highest rate of repairs per 100 vehicles of ANY make sold in the U.S. It's hard to imagine one going 300,000 miles without a whole lot of repair shop time.


22 posted on 07/19/2006 2:00:01 PM PDT by Gone GF
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ManningMillworks

"I could get into that assuming a small 300-400 lb lithium battery could power 300-400 miles."

You missed the lithium battery powered Smart car thread from yesterday (or maybe the day before), I guess.


23 posted on 07/19/2006 2:02:12 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: Uncledave
I'm having problems with these numbers. If the Prius costs $3.25 / mile for a 100,000 mile life, that means the total cost is $325,000. If gas is at $3/gallon for 40 mile/gal, that's $7,500 of gas in a lifetime leaving $317,500 in non-gasoline costs. Assuming the car is made of pure energy (absolutely nothing in it can be attributed to a non-energy cost) and costs $25,000 (might be a little high) you're left with $292,500 of energy costs not associated with manufacture or use. Some is for disposal. Some is for the energy to make repair and maintenance parts. But there is no way in the world you can say that those add up to over $290k. I rank this with proving you can flap your arms and fly around the room with a little math. The numbers don't add up.

(after a quick look at the report, it looks like most of that cost is for the disposal of the car. I have my doubts.)

25 posted on 07/19/2006 2:05:52 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (Loose lips sink ships - and the New York Times really doesn't have a problem with sinking ships.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ManningMillworks
"Why don't they use lithium batteries to power cars?"

Gasoline is a better store of energy than batteries, pound for pound.

Furthermore, federal crash standards and auto accident lawsuits prevent the implementation of light-weight cars. Burt Rutan, of SpaceShipOne civilian space flight fame, made a 4 passenger car for GM that weighed only 600 pounds, for instance. It was driven in a Wesley Snipes movie, as they had no other use for it (couldn't sell it commercially).

Lithium batteries *could* power a 600 pound car (think: electric golf cart).

But you need more energy for heavier vehicles, obviously.

26 posted on 07/19/2006 2:07:40 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave
Now here's a catchy slogan for the next Save the Earth campaign: Have you hugged a Hummer today?

I appreciate the research on the Hummer. I've seriously been thinking about buying a Hummer II. This is good information to know. My Explorer already irritates the heck out of the Environ_MENTAL_ wackos, but it gives me chills just thinking about how upset they will get when they see me driving a Hummer. LOL

27 posted on 07/19/2006 2:07:44 PM PDT by NRA2BFree (NEVER ARGUE WITH IDIOTS!!! THEY*LL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL AND BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: newgeezer
.....now, now.....

.....ha,ha,ha......

28 posted on 07/19/2006 2:10:02 PM PDT by cyberaxe (((.....does this mean I'm kewl now?.....)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave

This article will cause the environmentalists to jump like a frenchman.


29 posted on 07/19/2006 2:14:39 PM PDT by muleskinner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave
Never mind that at the time Ford was losing $2,000 to $3,000 for every hybrid it sold because consumers won't pay the entire $6,000

She lost her credibility right there. Ford makes one hybrid model, and it's an SUV. The price premium is $3,000 over a comparably equipped gas-only model. And, Ford doesn't have to sell them at a loss because they can't keep them in stock.

30 posted on 07/19/2006 2:20:04 PM PDT by Doohickey (I am not unappeasable. YOU are just too easily appeased.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: KarlInOhio
"The numbers don't add up."

You're absolutely correct. The "study" is a total crock.

This is the sort of nonsensical, innumerate sophistry one expects to come from moonbats ranting about SUV's. It doesn't help advance us toward rational decision making.

SUV's aren't as bad as they're usually made out to be, and hybrids aren't as "green" as they're made out to be -- but, these figures are asinine.
32 posted on 07/19/2006 2:24:55 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Doohickey

She used government math.


33 posted on 07/19/2006 2:26:32 PM PDT by Loyal Buckeye
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

You can prove anything with a study that's properly designed to lead to that proof.


35 posted on 07/19/2006 2:41:54 PM PDT by webboy45
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Onelifetogive

Not at all; the more complex something is and the more exotic its parts the more likely it will fail and be very difficult to recycle or dispose.

Hybrids are intrinsically complex and will always be in a state of refinement whereas I have not seen a radical wooden spoon in my lifetime.


36 posted on 07/19/2006 2:43:37 PM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: RoadTest

Mouth-breathers go first.


37 posted on 07/19/2006 2:46:13 PM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: sgtbono2002
Too bad that General Motors dosnt make that car in the United States. They import it from South Korea. Why doesnt General Motors build it here?

A very simple answer-the UAW.

38 posted on 07/19/2006 2:50:00 PM PDT by bfree (Liberalism-the yellow meat,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave
Several problems with the logic of this article have already been pointed out up-thread.

It should also be pointed out that what we are short of is not energy, it's petroleum. Any energy requirements that can be met from nuclear, coal, solar or hydro should be deleted from both sides of the comparison.

Look, anyone who can afford one is welcome to buy a Hummer as far as I'm concerned.

But don't insult my intelligence by claiming they are an energy efficient means of transport....unless you routinely load yours to full capacity and run them off-road.

39 posted on 07/19/2006 2:52:03 PM PDT by Comico Atómico
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ManningMillworks

A small quote from a site concerning the cost of lithium batteries used by the military:

Disposal and transportation for Lithium batteries is $6.71/pound (FY96$). Disposal is $6.00/pound and transportation is $0.06/pound. These were converted to FY96$.


40 posted on 07/19/2006 2:52:52 PM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave

Hybrids have been in use in the US since 1918. The first application was the diesel electric locomotive.

Early diesel-electrics were switching engines used to move rail cars around in rail yards. The first went into service in 1918 with the Jay Street Connecting Railroad.

No new ideas, just revamped old ideas...


41 posted on 07/19/2006 3:01:56 PM PDT by MD_Willington_1976
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Onelifetogive; Dog Gone

Another interesting aspect of this is that the common platform strategy is one big reason why GM is struggling. They are not making cars people want to buy because there's too little varation between them.

I don't think there's much extra cost to dispose of a Prius or Hummer if we just let them sit in junkyards until they rust away, which seems to be the overall fate of most cars.

However, the point of interest seems to be that if a typical car lasts for 300k miles and the Prius is not economically repairable after 100k miles (presumably the lifespan of the battery pack), that is truly not good.

What this means is that there are probably more than a few Priuses that are being sold on terms that will see the payments continue past the economic life of the vehicle. If you finance a Prius over 5 years - and I've seen six year auto financing available! - you could go only 20k miles a year and the car would be statistically dead before the last payment is made.

So much for cheap lease deals, eh?

D

(I just bought a 2000 Mercedes S500 to replace my ancient 1991 420SEL. Drives like a dream, is super-fast but I daresay it would be horrible on the writer's scale since it's very complex and uses many exotic materials to keep weight down. So if you really want to anger the envirowackos this might be your best automotive choice - and it averages a touch under 20mpg to boot, not bad compared to a similar-sized SUV. I'm pretty impressed considering my 420 was about 14mpg on a good day.)


42 posted on 07/19/2006 3:04:02 PM PDT by daviddennis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave
Image hosted by Photobucket.com not to mention that a WELL maintained HUMMER, can last you a lifetime...
43 posted on 07/19/2006 3:06:26 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist ©®)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave
Image hosted by Photobucket.com

HA ha...
and the RATS take another one in the...

44 posted on 07/19/2006 3:17:54 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist ©®)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: watchin
Image hosted by Photobucket.com ummm... the word ORGANIC means "chemistry of carbon compounds". 8^)
45 posted on 07/19/2006 3:22:29 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist ©®)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Uncledave
Spenella is an idiot.

By contrast, Prius' life – according to Toyota's own numbers – is 100,000 miles.

That is false. The Prius battery is warranted for 100,000 miles. Warranties are not "life expectancies", and even an idiot would know that. There are no reports of Prius cars being abandoned yet. The fact that they are being bought by cab companies shows the lie of the above statement -- a cab company wouldn't buy a car that was going to break in 100,000 miles. By contrast with this stupid statement, a Prius cab had gone over 250,000 miles with nothing more than routine maintenance, and then Toyota TOOK THE BATTERY back just to check it out, and found it was not materially degraded.

Furthermore, Hummer is a far less sophisticated vehicle. Its engine obviously does not have an electric and gas component as a hybrid's does so it takes much less time and energy to manufacture.

Last time I looked, a Hummer has a very LARGE engine with twice the pistons and moving parts as a Prius gas engine, a drive train with gears that the Toyota does NOT have, and an "electric component" remarkably like a motor-generator, with a motor that is powerful enough to turn over the engine, and then operate as a generator to charge the battery.

What's more, its main raw ingredient is low-cost steel, not the exotic light-weights that are exceedingly difficult to make – and dispose.

The materials used for the Prius are hardly "exotic", theres some high-strength plastics that are recyclable, a lot of aluminum which is recyclable. The Hummer as a LOT MORE raw materials than the Prius.

But the biggest reason why a Hummer's energy use is so low is that it shares many components with other vehicles and therefore its design and development energy costs are spread across many cars.

This is the first I've seen suggested that the "design and development" energy costs are a significant factor in lifetime energy use. How much energy to those computers use? The Prius power train is being reused in several other cars, and believe it or not MANY of the parts in a hybrid car are STANDARD PARTS, like brake pads, tires, door handles, electric windows, steering wheel, etc.

There were many other problems with the article, but that is all I could bear to deal with. Like comparing the "real-world" gas use numbers of a Prius to the artificial EPA numbers for other cars. I'm getting real-world gas mileage in my two Prius cars that are far above what I got in any previous car -- and I really doubt the cars they mention are regularly getting 45+ miles per gallon.

If you don't want a hybrid, don't buy a hybrid

46 posted on 07/19/2006 3:29:27 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gone GF

Just adding that a Prius is fun to drive. It's got a lot of zip, and it's quiet.

I don't think anyone should buy a hybrid to save money. If you like the car, you buy it.

We have a Prius. My husband loved it after he test drove it. It handled a lot better than the other cars he drove, and it was quieter. Being a computer geek, he also like the screen and other technologies in the car. Of course, right now he loves that he isn't going to the gas station often.


47 posted on 07/19/2006 3:29:28 PM PDT by luckystarmom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: MD_Willington_1976

"The first application was the diesel electric locomotive."

Don't forget the submarines used in both world wars.


48 posted on 07/19/2006 3:34:19 PM PDT by 3niner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: CharlesWayneCT
Good summary of the problems with this biased info.

This 'study' is worse than many of the hysterical global warming catastrophe 'studies'.
49 posted on 07/19/2006 3:52:54 PM PDT by chipengineer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: 3niner

yep...

funny how everyone re-invents the wheel with existing old ideas.. progress... lol


50 posted on 07/19/2006 4:04:31 PM PDT by MD_Willington_1976
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-54 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson