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‘Older Brother’ Study Is Unscientific, Analysts Say (Homosexuals)
Concerned Women for America ^ | 7/21/06 | Robert Knight

Posted on 07/21/2006 5:03:28 PM PDT by wagglebee

Latest well-publicized genetic link to homosexuality not conclusive.

A study contending that boys with older brothers are biologically more likely to be homosexual has been challenged by a Canadian psychiatrist who dismisses the study as "rubbish," and by a Dutch psychologist who says the claims are "unsubstantiated."

Joseph Berger, a Distinguished Life Fellow with the American Psychiatric Association, and a member of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality's (NARTH) Scientific Advisory Committee, says in an article posted on NARTH's website that the study is "absolute utter rubbish" and "should never have been published."

Anthony Bogaert, a Canadian psychologist, wrote an article, "Biological versus nonbiological older brothers and men's sexual orientation," which was published in the July 11, 2006 edition of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The study, which indicates that sexual orientation for some men is biologically determined before birth, has been reported worldwide, with uncritical articles in the Wall Street Journal and other publications.

Bogaert examined eight different sibling scenarios for 944 men in four samples, three of which were "archival," with one sample recruited through ads in mostly homosexual-themed publications. Michael Smith, writing in the online journal MedPageToday, (http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/Genetics/tb/3641) breaks down the study's statistical findings for readers. He explains that out of the sibling arrangements, the only category that showed a possible determinant for homosexuality was the presence of older, biological brothers. Dr. Bogaert also examined the number of years a man had been reared with his brothers and sisters and whether or not they were related by blood.

Dr. Berger, in the NARTH article, "Canadian Psychiatrist Finds Major Flaws in Anthony Bogaert's Study of Gay Brothers," lists several fallacies with the study's conclusions:

"If you begin a study with an etiology based on flawed assumptions," Dr. Berger told CWA, "it discredits the whole theory….This study is yet another claim…based on nothing other than an obvious personal wish/bias… [and] superficial research that may be purely coincidental to or entirely unrelated to the conclusion that the researchers are proposing."

In another critique of the study on the NARTH Website, Dr. Gerard J.M. van den Aardweg contends that crucial missing social factors, such as the age when some of the boys were separated from their first household or whether their mothers were present in the new household doom any definitive finding of a biological factor.

In Anthony Boegart (& Friends) Grasping at a Straw," van den Aardweg writes, "In short, all information on the relevant life-history data and developmental-psychological factors of these pivotal raised-apart boys is painfully missing. This unpardonable neglect makes any attempt at interpretation a mere groping in the dark."

MedPage Today reports that in previous works, Dr. Bogaert, along with some of his colleagues, estimated that 28 percent of homosexual men can link their sexual orientation to their fraternal birth order. "These results support a prenatal origin to sexual orientation development in men," Dr. Bogaert said, "and indicate that the fraternal birth-order effect is probably the result of a maternal 'memory'' for male gestations or births."

In a companion article to the Bogaert study in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, David A. Puts, Ph.D., Cynthia L. Jordan, and Marc S. Breedlove firmly declare their support for the idea that homosexuality is normal and say that "a host of reports bolster the idea that prenatal events, rather than family relations, affect the likelihood that a person will grow up to be straight or gay." The authors also uncritically cite Simon LeVay's 1991 study, which has since been revealed to be deeply flawed and unreplicated, and note that "circumstantial evidence has accumulated suggesting that some people really are born to become gay."

Van den Aardweg comments:

"The 'circumstantial evidence' which is believed to have 'accumulated' and which would 'suggest that some people are born to become gay' is imaginary today. To proclaim that it is virtually certain that 'some people are really born gay' is not only scientific nonsense. Coming from the pen of academics such language is irresponsibly cheap and unscientific. If this deceptive and inexpert kind of commentary is all the wisdom the U.S. Academy of Sciences has to offer on occasion of a scientifically weak publication, the conclusion must be that it has adopted a new member: gay science."

Puts and his colleagues told MedPage Today of one possible explanation for the biological link. "Women may develop an antibody response to the 'foreign' male tissue of a male fetus. The idea, first proposed in 1985, is that a mother carrying a first son is not exposed to male-specific proteins until delivery, when fetal and maternal blood inevitably mix. However, an immune response to such proteins will affect subsequent sons, via active transport across the placenta, and might perturb development." These researchers went on to say, "Whether this is what is really happening for sexual orientation remains to be seen, but it is a provocative hypothesis."

Van den Aardweg notes that the way Boegart reports his results, "his discovery is virtually proof that some mothers produce anti-boy antibodies each time when they are pregnant with a boy, the accumulating effect which somehow would affect the brain of a later-born son so that he becomes a homosexual. His argument? Because his finding is 'consistent with' that theory (I would just as easily rely on an explanation based on a boy's horoscope). Consistency with a theory does not decide the validity of a theory, however."

Despite his conclusion that his data "strongly suggest a prenatal origin to the fraternal birth-order effect, Boegart himself acknowledges elsewhere in his study: "No direct support exists for a maternal immune response that underlies the fraternal birth-order effect, but various lines of evidence exist in this theory's favor and have been reviewed elsewhere."

Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, a psychiatrist and author of the book Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth (Baker Bookhouse), told CWA in an e-mail that the Boegart study is not determinative. "What's always missed is the chain of causality (assuming the research is accurate, well done, the statistics are good, etc., all is replicated and so on) between the facts that have been established…."There is in fact no evidence at all that any biological factor makes a person gay or lesbian. There's demonstrable evidence that certain genes/proteins make a person blue-eyed, mentally retarded, or not a person at all but a plant." Satinover said that other probable "intermediate chains of causality" for the creation of homosexual inclinations "are obvious the moment one stops thinking in political terms."

Dr. Berger cautions that the Boegart data should be seen as "interesting chance findings," not conclusive evidence. Further testing would need to be done, he told CWA. A broader sample of men would be required, and the mothers' wombs would need to be tested to indicate whether or not prenatal conditions influence sexuality, he said.

"Many people confuse mathematical differences with biological differences," Dr. Berger told CWA. "If you traveled to the Middle East and surveyed 1,000 families, would you conclude that the Islamic faith is a genetic predisposition? The mathematical facts do not conclude that there is biological causation."

A previous study (1999) by Dr. Boegart concluded that homosexual men have larger genitalia than heterosexual men. Boegart based his findings on data from 5,000 interviews of men by Alfred C. Kinsey, the now-discredited sex research pioneer. In self-reported measurements mailed in after their interviews, more homosexual men reported larger penises than did the heterosexual men.



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cwa; homosexualagenda; homosexuals; narth
The militant homosexual movement wants their degenerate lifestyle to be "normal" and they will do anything to try to establish it as such.
1 posted on 07/21/2006 5:03:30 PM PDT by wagglebee
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To: DBeers; DirtyHarryY2K

HA Ping.


2 posted on 07/21/2006 5:04:22 PM PDT by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the ping.


3 posted on 07/21/2006 5:06:31 PM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: wagglebee
The militant homosexual movement wants their degenerate lifestyle to be "normal" and they will do anything to try to establish it as such.

Including the manufacture of evidence that the normal lifestyle is actually degenerate.

4 posted on 07/21/2006 5:10:55 PM PDT by Steely Tom
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To: wagglebee
I come from a family of five boys and none of us are homersexurals (although Lance does dress kinda funny...
5 posted on 07/21/2006 5:11:39 PM PDT by rockrr (Never argue with a man who buys ammo in bulk...)
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To: rockrr

Yep, there were three of us boys in my family and none of us were ever tempted to become a homosexual.


6 posted on 07/21/2006 5:12:42 PM PDT by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee
van den Aardweg writes, "In short, all information on the relevant life-history data and developmental-psychological factors of these pivotal raised-apart boys is painfully missing. This unpardonable neglect makes any attempt at interpretation a mere groping in the dark."

Curious choice of words...

7 posted on 07/21/2006 5:14:18 PM PDT by Tall_Texan (I wish a political party would come along that thinks like I do.)
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To: wagglebee
ALL their studies are rubbish, as are many other so called scientific studies. Still they will be lauded as ground breaking, and quoted as statistics over and over and over. Any lie told often enough, they believe, becomes true.

And we Americans are stupid, silly little fools who will buy their propaganda, or so they think.
8 posted on 07/21/2006 5:15:37 PM PDT by gidget7 (PC is the huge rock, behind which lies hide!)
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To: rockrr
Homersexuals are more inclined to like, "um! donuts", than they are inclined to like people of the same sex.
9 posted on 07/21/2006 5:16:16 PM PDT by joem15 (If less is more, then what is plenty?)
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To: rockrr

I got you beat, my family had 7 sons, and in fact my brother is the seventh son of the seventh son, and none of either generation is gay, nor are any produced by them.


10 posted on 07/21/2006 5:17:07 PM PDT by gidget7 (PC is the huge rock, behind which lies hide!)
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To: wagglebee

Tell me again why we're supposed to respect "scientists"?


11 posted on 07/21/2006 5:18:29 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Whiskey for my men, hyperbolic rodomontade for my horses.)
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To: AFA-Michigan; Abathar; AggieCPA; Agitate; AliVeritas; AllTheRage; An American In Dairyland; ...
Homosexual Agenda Ping!

If you oppose the homosexualization of society
-add yourself to the ping list!

To be included in or removed from the
HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA PING LIST,
please FReepMail either DBeers or DirtyHarryY2k.

Free Republic homosexual agenda keyword search
[ Add keyword = homosexualagenda to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

A study contending that boys with older brothers are biologically more likely to be homosexual has been challenged by a Canadian psychiatrist who dismisses the study as "rubbish," and by a Dutch psychologist who says the claims are "unsubstantiated."

Joseph Berger, a Distinguished Life Fellow with the American Psychiatric Association, and a member of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality's (NARTH) Scientific Advisory Committee, says in an article posted on NARTH's website that the study is "absolute utter rubbish" and "should never have been published."

YET -published it was AND touted in hundreds of headlines it was... Just like the recent "Lesbian Brain" study - ROTFLMAO

I do not envision that this version of the news will get as much fanfare -it never does...

12 posted on 07/21/2006 5:18:48 PM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: Tax-chick

Chortle

Snicker

:-)


13 posted on 07/21/2006 5:21:16 PM PDT by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee

14 posted on 07/21/2006 5:25:59 PM PDT by John Lenin
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To: DBeers
Although, to be fair, neither Dr. Berger nor Dr. van der Aardweg could be called impartial critics. They each have their own particular hobby horses to peddle. A more persuasive criticism of the study would be an evaluation of the data and conclusions by actual geneticists and statisticians. This particular study, as I remember, is simply correlational and the authors make the classic mistake of concluding cause and effect from correlation, which is a big statistical faux pas. This is done every day when associating things like caffeine intake and cardiovascular disease or cancer. It is reported as cause and effect when no such conclusion can be validly reached based on correlation. Also, these two doctors seem not to know the difference between genetic and prenatal. The study made no claims for a genetic basis for homosexuality, but instead concluded something in the prenatal environment was causing the effect. (The most obvious factor that could account for this would be changes in hormonal levels in the womb as a result of the aging of the mother and is something that could actually be tested to support or disprove Bogaert's conclusions.)

Also, how much do you want to bet that these same two doctors see no problem with the whole global warming hoax which is based on similar "levels" of proof?

15 posted on 07/21/2006 5:41:55 PM PDT by MarcusTulliusCicero
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To: MarcusTulliusCicero
Although, to be fair

The point is that science is not fair. If the science is sound THEN motive matters not -- IF the science is junk THEN motive matters. Regardless in either case, motive does not make or break the science IT makes or breaks the "scientist"...

16 posted on 07/21/2006 6:07:22 PM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: DBeers

They care nothing for truth (we know that already). All they want is face time with their lies so sheep will swallow the lies whole.

Too bad so few people can reason rationally.


17 posted on 07/21/2006 6:53:07 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: wagglebee
The author starts by presuming 'evidence' for some sort of biological causation of homosexuality.

I've read the study. I'd have to say that this criticism is groundless. If anythimg. it is these critics who start with a conclusion.

The study was not "rubbish" at all. It was done well.

You don't do a scientific study to prove what you want to believe. You do it to find out what the facts are, whether you like them or not.

18 posted on 07/21/2006 9:06:05 PM PDT by freespirited
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To: wagglebee
...the only category that showed a possible determinant for homosexuality was the presence of older, biological brothers...mothers hoping for daughters have yet more sons, subtly overprotect and feminize these youngest sons to help fulfill their wishes, sons become "gay" - QED: family dynamics in cohorts of older/younger sons lead to homosexuality......
19 posted on 07/21/2006 9:39:50 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: wagglebee

I think that if I had been "reared" with my "older brother" I would have a good chance of being gay, also.


20 posted on 07/21/2006 10:37:45 PM PDT by CondiArmy
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To: wagglebee

It's my birthday today, so I can have a snicker!


21 posted on 07/22/2006 3:32:10 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Whiskey for my men, hyperbolic rodomontade for my horses.)
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To: gidget7
and in fact my brother is the seventh son of the seventh son, and none of either generation is gay

But the real question is, is he a wizard?

22 posted on 07/22/2006 3:33:14 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Whiskey for my men, hyperbolic rodomontade for my horses.)
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To: freespirited


Please back up your assertions with facts.


23 posted on 07/22/2006 6:33:04 AM PDT by dcnd9
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To: wagglebee
This is true and many innocents burdened with SSA are sold a lie by the schools, preachers and society who believe the militants position and have for 40 yrs..

I know a family with 3 relatives who are gay. All these men seem perfectly normal, have mega straight friends & work in the corporate world. You would never know unless told. They all were all told by religious men in high school and college to accept who they were etc., etc. They were never told to lead chaste lives or that they could overcome SSA and because of this indoctrination they don't believe they need to change their sexual preference. It's really sad what society has done to those afflicted with SSA.

Change is possible, and more importantly showing them 'how' to change, has been lost in the rhetoric.
24 posted on 07/22/2006 6:43:50 AM PDT by dcnd9
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To: Tax-chick

LOL no, at least not as far as I know


25 posted on 07/22/2006 8:19:00 AM PDT by gidget7 (PC is the huge rock, behind which lies hide!)
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To: dcnd9
Please back up your assertions with facts.

Let's start with some general observations. This study involves an unusually large sample: almost 1000 subjects. The author had some archival data from other samples, but then went to the time and trouble to collect a lot more data. Data collection and analysis is generally the most time consuming part of research. This tells you that this is not someone looking to do "quick and dirty" research.

The author analyzed his findings in a very methodical manner. Contrary to what his critic here claims, even a cursory glance at his paper shows that he neither started off presuming that homosexuality has a biological origin nor did he conclude that he had proven it. He starts off by noting previous evidence and concludes that his data are supportive. Big difference.

Let's note also that this paper was published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. It's not known for publishing just any old tripe that someone churns out.

In my experience, anyone who would call a paper with the above characteristics "rubbish" and "drivel" is the one has a preconceived position.

Now let's turn to specifics. The critic here complains that the author has not taken into account a myriad of possible differences in child rearing practices or family characteristics. (He offers no explanation as to how some of the characteristics he reels off, such as a change in the family's financial situation, could contribute to sexual orientation.) But the important point is that his assertion is false. Although the study design does not control for every variable he manages to come up with it does control for social environment in a compelling way.

The study includes groups of men with varying sibling characteristics. Among them are men who actually had older biological brothers but were not raised with them. In other words, these men were raised as if they were the oldest boy in the family. There were also men who were raised with older nonbiological brothers.

If upbringing (family environment) has a compelling impact on sexual orientation, one would predict that the incidence of homosexuality among males who had older brothers but were not raised with them (i.e. were raised as if they were the oldest) would not differ from the incidence among males who were biologically the eldest male in the family. But that's not what the data showed. What predicted the incidence of homosexuality in this group was having older brothers regardless of whether they grew up together.

Likewise, if the familial environment is so compelling, one would predict a similar incidence of homosexuality among males who were raised with nonbiological older brothers as those who were raised with biological older brothers. But again, that is not what the analysis found. Only biological older brothers were predictive, regardless of whether the men were raised with them.

Both of these findings are consistent with an effect of a prenatal factor. It does not prove it, nor does the author claim that he has proved it.

If you read the critic's piece at the link above and compare it to the actual paper (which is linked in his piece) it will be evident to you who is operating with a demand for a preconceived outcome and who is simply following the data wherever they lead.

26 posted on 07/23/2006 9:18:23 AM PDT by freespirited
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To: freespirited; dcnd9
The author had some archival data from other samples,

3 of which have been disproven. So, Bogaert examined eight different sibling scenarios for 944 men in four samples, three of which were "archival," which means only his "study" had "new" onfo. How many men did he actually "study" first hand? If 3 of the "studies" were archival, he did NOT examine 944 men himself as 3 of the 4 were archival.

All the first references are to people such as [Dean] Hamer, [Simon] LeVay, [Michael] Bailey, etc., whose work has been assessed and critiqued, and there have been no follow-up studies confirming the claims of any of these people."

This isn't science it's propoganda.

27 posted on 07/23/2006 9:59:24 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If you think you know what's coming next....You don't know Jack.)
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To: freespirited
The "study" was bunk.

Study Claiming Biological Basis for Homosexuality “Absolute Rubbish”: NARTH Psychiatrist

The study suggested that male same-sex attraction results from an immune reaction on the part of the mother to the presence of the male child in her womb, a reaction the study’s authors suggest stems from the gestation of previous male children. In other words, the study suggests, having biological older brothers leads to the development of homosexuality.

The study’s assumption of a biological basis for homosexuality is a “major glaring flaw,” said Berger, since existing research has not produced conclusive findings indicating grounds for such an assumption.

28 posted on 07/23/2006 10:14:59 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If you think you know what's coming next....You don't know Jack.)
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To: freespirited
The author had some archival data

Which did not support his claim.

No scientific basis for 'born gay' theory

Simon LeVay notes, "It is important to stress what I didn't find. I did not prove that homosexuality was genetic, or find a cause for being gay. I didn't show that gay men were born that way, the most common mistake people make in interpreting my work."

29 posted on 07/23/2006 10:18:14 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If you think you know what's coming next....You don't know Jack.)
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To: DJ MacWoW
3 of which have been disproven

Sorry DJ, but one does not disprove data. One disproves hypotheses.

All the first references are to people such as [Dean] Hamer, [Simon] LeVay, [Michael] Bailey, etc., whose work has been assessed and critiqued, and there have been no follow-up studies confirming the claims of any of these people."This isn't science it's propoganda.

If you would look at *how* the papers are cited by the author, you would see that his use of the references are appropriate to the context. The mere acknowledging of a paper's existence is not the same as agreeing with its conclusions. I agree that he could have put in a sentence citing papers that take issue with the conclusions of Hamer and LeVay. That is hardly enough to turn the paper into "drivel" and "rubbish." The key issue is the actual research and analysis.

Do you actually believe that all the papers that deny any biological basis for homosexuality have not likewise been "assessed and critiqued." That is how it is supposed to be. Assessment and critique is good. There is no convention holding that one never cites a paper again because someone somewhere doesn't agree with the author's interpretation of the data.

The analysis was well done. It deserved to be published so that others can see the findings and discuss them. A mindset to the contrary is reminiscent of liberals with their speech codes.

30 posted on 07/23/2006 10:26:52 AM PDT by freespirited
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To: freespirited
Sorry DJ, but one does not disprove data. One disproves hypotheses.

If the data is flawed, so is the hypothesis.

I agree that he could have put in a sentence citing papers that take issue with the conclusions of Hamer and LeVay.

He misused/misrepresented LeVays work. That is a serious flaw. See post 29.

31 posted on 07/23/2006 10:32:19 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If you think you know what's coming next....You don't know Jack.)
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To: wagglebee
Boegart based his findings on data from 5,000 interviews of men by
Alfred C. Kinsey, the now-discredited sex research pioneer.


Folks should see the PBS "American Experience" episode on Kinsey.
(and make sure the kiddies are already in bed!)

Funny how the professors at university never told me that Kinsey
(and his colleagues) were getting their pan-sexual jollies as part of
their funded research!
But good credit to PBS for actually airing this!
32 posted on 07/23/2006 10:35:11 AM PDT by VOA
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To: DJ MacWoW
Levay "I did not prove that homosexuality was genetic, or find a cause for being gay."

You are attributing meaning to him that is beyond what he is alleged to have said. I say alleged because that piece had the ring of a diatribe, not a piece of scientific work.

The idea of a gay gene, if it ever existed, has been discarded. If there is a prenatal factor, the thought is that it is something in the prenatal environment. Something that happens in the womb, during gestation. Assuming LeVay was accurately quoted, his comment did not rule that out at all if you think about it.

As for the part that he did not find a biological contributor, now really DJ. You can reason well enough to acknowledge that just because LeVay admits he didn't find such a factor, it doesn't mean that further research will not discover one. It might, it might not.

I would like to see you willing to be open-minded. If that is asking too much, we will have to agree to disagree on this topic.

33 posted on 07/23/2006 10:38:40 AM PDT by freespirited
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To: freespirited
The analysis was well done. It deserved to be published so that others can see the findings and discuss them. A mindset to the contrary is reminiscent of liberals with their speech codes.

He has already been proven to use flawed material.

From the article: A previous study (1999) by Dr. Boegart concluded that homosexual men have larger genitalia than heterosexual men. Boegart based his findings on data from 5,000 interviews of men by Alfred C. Kinsey, the now-discredited sex research pioneer.

A mindset to the contrary is reminiscent of liberals with their speech codes.

How typical.

34 posted on 07/23/2006 10:39:53 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If you think you know what's coming next....You don't know Jack.)
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To: DJ MacWoW
If the data is flawed, so is the hypothesis.

Now you are making no sense at all.

The data here are about how many brothers a man had, whether he was raised with them, whether they were older or younger. It's not rocket science to collect that type of information, nor is this the kind of information that people are likely to have trouble remembering or reporting accurately.

You will have to show that there was some problem collecting such simple info to have a convincing argument.

35 posted on 07/23/2006 10:44:23 AM PDT by freespirited
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To: freespirited
If there is a prenatal factor, the thought is that it is something in the prenatal environment. Something that happens in the womb, during gestation. Assuming LeVay was accurately quoted, his comment did not rule that out at all if you think about it.

LeVay said: I didn't show that gay men were born that way, the most common mistake people make in interpreting my work."

As for the part that he did not find a biological contributor, now really DJ. You can reason well enough to acknowledge that just because LeVay admits he didn't find such a factor, it doesn't mean that further research will not discover one. It might, it might not.

The point was that Anthony Bogaert miused data.

I would like to see you willing to be open-minded. If that is asking too much, we will have to agree to disagree on this topic.

I'm the one that's closeminded? LOL You use a discredited psychologist to back up your opinion but I'm closeminded. ;)

36 posted on 07/23/2006 10:46:03 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If you think you know what's coming next....You don't know Jack.)
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To: freespirited
Let me quote Van den Aardweg : Consistency with a theory does not decide the validity of a theory, however."

And: "Many people confuse mathematical differences with biological differences," Dr. Berger told CWA. "If you traveled to the Middle East and surveyed 1,000 families, would you conclude that the Islamic faith is a genetic predisposition? The mathematical facts do not conclude that there is biological causation."

His "data" proves nothing.

37 posted on 07/23/2006 10:57:11 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If you think you know what's coming next....You don't know Jack.)
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To: freespirited
The idea of a gay gene, if it ever existed, has been discarded. If there is a prenatal factor, the thought is that it is something in the prenatal environment. Something that happens in the womb, during gestation. Assuming LeVay was accurately quoted, his comment did not rule that out at all if you think about it.

Because no gay gene can be found, the gay movement will change tactics. Now it's "gestation".

From LeVay: " . . . people who think that gays and lesbians are born that way are more likely to support gay rights."

No scientific basis for 'born gay' theory

38 posted on 07/23/2006 11:07:17 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (If you think you know what's coming next....You don't know Jack.)
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To: DJ MacWoW
If they found a 'gay gene' then it could be repaired and gays don't want that!

OVERHAULING OF STRAIGHT AMERICA
http://www.parentsrightsusa.com/Overhauling%20of%20Straight%20America.htm


Freespirited lost the argument!
39 posted on 07/24/2006 1:01:02 PM PDT by dcnd9
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To: freespirited
The idea of a gay gene, if it ever existed, has been discarded. If there is a prenatal factor, the thought is that it is something in the prenatal environment. Something that happens in the womb, during gestation.

The very fact that this witch hunt for a biological basis for homosexuality continues *after* the realization that there is no gay gene says a great deal. It begins with an assumption that there must be a biological basis for this deviant behavior (those who promote can't have it any other way after all) and following the mapping of the genome and the realization that there is no gay gene the assumption is made that there must be some biological prenatal factor at fault.

This isn't science; it's a philosophical attempt at defending humanist orthodxy against scientific data.
40 posted on 07/24/2006 1:11:25 PM PDT by Old_Mil (http://www.constitutionparty.org - Forging a Rebirth of Freedom.)
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