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Law Says Homeowner Groups Can't Bar Flag Flying
Local 6 (Florida) ^ | July 25, 2006

Posted on 07/25/2006 10:09:43 AM PDT by Stoat

Law Says Homeowner Groups Can't Bar Flag Flying

 

POSTED: 11:09 am EDT July 25, 2006
UPDATED: 12:25 pm EDT July 25, 2006

 

President George W. Bush signed a bill on Monday that would bar condominium and homeowner associations from restricting how the American flag can be displayed.

Sponsored by Rep. Roscoe Bartlett, R-Md., the resolution would prohibit those groups from preventing residents from displaying an American flag on their own property. It was passed unanimously by both the House and the Senate.

  "Americans have long flown our flag as an expression of their appreciation for our freedoms and their pride in our nation," Bush said in a statement.

"As our brave men and women continue to fight to protect our country overseas, Congress has passed an important measure to protect our citizens right to express their patriotism here at home without burdensome restrictions," Bush said.



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: flag; flags; government; homeowner; law; mdm; usa

1 posted on 07/25/2006 10:09:44 AM PDT by Stoat
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To: Stoat

Ok, good law, bout time.

Now

The BORDERS????

This is a tempest in a tea pot compared to our REAL problems.


2 posted on 07/25/2006 10:11:03 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (In a world where Carpenters come back from the dead, ALL things are possible.)
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To: Stoat

Mixed feelings. I'd hate to see a restrictive HOA barring a "normal" flag display, particularly on holidays, but imagine a "neighbor from hell" who decides to hang a circus-tent-sized flag from the balconies on a daily basis ... when you're trying to sell your next-door condo ...


3 posted on 07/25/2006 10:13:02 AM PDT by pogo101
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To: Stoat

While I find the idea of Homeowners' associations putting such restrictions on homeowners to be repugnant, I also find no language in the Constitution that grants Congress the power to make a law such as this.

Two wrongs don't make a right.


4 posted on 07/25/2006 10:13:05 AM PDT by sourcery (A libertarian is a conservative who has been mugged ...by his own government)
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To: Stoat
Another bad law meant to save people from their own poor decisions. I feel little pity for those unwise enough to willingly abandon their individuality to uptight, hyper-reactive HOAs. Why people continue to invite such authority into their lives is beyond me.

How HOAs treat flag-wavers is simply none of the Govt's business.

5 posted on 07/25/2006 10:14:25 AM PDT by gdani
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To: pogo101
...imagine a "neighbor from hell" who decides to hang a circus-tent-sized flag from the balconies on a daily basis ...

I'd help him hang it!

6 posted on 07/25/2006 10:15:12 AM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: Stoat

Here's a big raspberry for all of you that love HOAs.


7 posted on 07/25/2006 10:16:02 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Rabid ethnicist.)
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To: Stoat

FYI: The federal government is given authority to regulate HOAs in Article CLXVII of the New International Expanded Version of the Constitution.


8 posted on 07/25/2006 10:17:28 AM PDT by TChris (Banning DDT wasn't about birds. It was about power.)
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To: Stoat

i dont see how a law such as this is necessary. government should not be interfering in private homeowner business.


9 posted on 07/25/2006 10:17:49 AM PDT by philsfan24
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To: philsfan24
It can't be private if the HOA's have the constitutional right and power to control the tenents.

The trees have hidden the forest .. or the forest has hidden the tree .. or the cart is before the horse .. or ... Hell ... I don't know anymore.

10 posted on 07/25/2006 10:21:48 AM PDT by knarf (A place where anyone can learn anything ... especially that which promotes clear thinking.)
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To: sourcery

I agree that this law is federal overreach. People who join these homeowners' associations know what they're getting into; it's a freely chosen tradeoff of limiting your rights in exchange for guaranteeing a clutter-free - and presumably aesthetic - environment. Some people want to make that choice, and the feds shouldn't intervene.


11 posted on 07/25/2006 10:22:54 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: knarf

>>>It can't be private if the HOA's have the constitutional right and power to control the tenents.>>>

They do if you sign a contract GIVING them that power and right to control you.


12 posted on 07/25/2006 10:23:33 AM PDT by sandbar
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: gdani

Building codes are very favorable toward HOAs; I like this law, it serves as a check on petty fiefdoms.


14 posted on 07/25/2006 10:27:11 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: Stoat
It was passed unanimously by both the House and the Senate.

Amazing! Not even Baghdad Jim McDermott voted against it?

15 posted on 07/25/2006 10:29:07 AM PDT by CholeraJoe (All Marines can throw a grenade. The really, really good ones can throw a slider with one.)
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: pogo101

Oh, pleeze...is your glass always half empty?


17 posted on 07/25/2006 10:30:36 AM PDT by top 2 toe red (To the enemy in Iraq..."Don't bet on American politics forcing my hand!" President Bush)
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To: TonyRo76
"HOAs and condo associations are just like another layer of intrusive "government" with the power to take our money and tell us what to do."

So people who don't like them should find housing elsewhere. It's not different in principle from an apartment owner prohibiting pets or smoking; he makes a tradeoff between losing possible tenants and maintaining his property in the best possible condition. If he can't find tenants on those terms, he will change the terms or get out of the business. If HOA's can't find people willing to abide by their rules, they will change the rules.
18 posted on 07/25/2006 10:31:28 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: philsfan24
Well, I do...we live in a new development and until it is 65% owner occupied, the damned developer IS the HOA...so, whatever, he and his minions want to restrict, they restrict.

Yes, I know, no one forced us to buy in this development.

19 posted on 07/25/2006 10:36:27 AM PDT by top 2 toe red (To the enemy in Iraq..."Don't bet on American politics forcing my hand!" President Bush)
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To: TonyRo76
Having a nosy-neighborood "authority" tell you what to do on your own property is, in my mind, a flagrant violation of individual rights.

I thought so to, Tony, until I saw just how stupid and inconsiderate some neighbors can be. One jacka$$ probably cost me thousands of dollars when my wife and I were trying to sell our well-maintained townhouse - his house (2 doors down) was a dump and he and the HOA were suing one another about forcing him to fix it.

20 posted on 07/25/2006 10:36:55 AM PDT by RebelBanker (If you can't do something smart, do something right.)
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To: TonyRo76
"Having a nosy-neighborood "authority" tell you what to do on your own property is, in my mind, a flagrant violation of individual rights."

This country was founded to some extent by people who created what are now called "intentional communities," i.e., communities formed around a particular religious or social ideal. People who did not share those values formed communities of their own. In those days, the federal government left them alone because the federal government was not thought to possess constitutional authority to regulate local communities.

So I think this law is bad law as far as our Constitution and our history are concerned. Would you support a federal law that prevented people from creating a small community organized along religious or philosophical principles? Should the Amish be outlawed?
21 posted on 07/25/2006 10:38:17 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: pogo101
but imagine a "neighbor from hell" who decides to hang a circus-tent-sized flag from the balconies on a daily basis ... when you're trying to sell your next-door condo ...

Depending on the buyer, it could be a selling point.

22 posted on 07/25/2006 10:40:29 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: All
To All:

Although I haven't seen the actual, full text of the Bill, one sentence in this news article may cause some additional complexity to the matter:

" .....that would bar condominium and homeowner associations from restricting how the American flag can be displayed. "

I am assuming that this law would not usurp or abrogate any preexisting Federal laws pertaining to the display of the American flag, but it may cause proponents of this law to wonder what they have wrought when they discover that their neighbor in the homeowner's association-administered area is a hard-Left Moonbat who intentionally displays his flag in a disrespectful manner.  Although this of course can happen anywhere, one of the reasons why people move into neighborhoods that have a homeowner's association is precisely for the purpose of eliminating such interpersonal conflicts (i.e. the Anarchist Neighbor From Hell who paints his house black and blacktops his lawn).

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

23 posted on 07/25/2006 10:40:40 AM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: gdani
Why people continue to invite such authority into their lives is beyond me.

me also.

People who voluntarily put themselves into a situation where they are dictated to - house color, how many, how old their vehicles, etc etc etc - and pay for the privilege of being dictated too (Association fees) are a puzzle to me.

I wouldn't last long in such a 'gulag'

24 posted on 07/25/2006 10:40:42 AM PDT by maine-iac7 ("...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time." Lincoln)
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To: Steve_Seattle

I take it you have been in your Seattle property for a long time...but, surely you must know that MOST property on the Eastside REQUIRES membership in a HOA.</P>

After 3 years in Seattle, we decided we preferred Eastside living, even with the restriction of HOA...better than Capitol Hill living in OHO!


25 posted on 07/25/2006 10:44:22 AM PDT by top 2 toe red (To the enemy in Iraq..."Don't bet on American politics forcing my hand!" President Bush)
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To: pogo101
but imagine a "neighbor from hell" who decides to hang a circus-tent-sized flag from the balconies on a daily basis ... when you're trying to sell your next-door condo ...

It's the price that ends up being paid because of abuses by overzealous HOA officials who are drunk with power.

Not for nothing, but a circus tent sized flag may be just the reminder that these facists need to curtail any future acts of unreasonable control. The ultimate smack down if you will.
26 posted on 07/25/2006 10:47:48 AM PDT by HEY4QDEMS (Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.)
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To: CholeraJoe
It was passed unanimously by both the House and the Senate.

Amazing! Not even Baghdad Jim McDermott voted against it?

Perhaps he was napping or off attending a pro-Palestinian rally?  :-)

27 posted on 07/25/2006 10:48:37 AM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: sourcery
While I find the idea of Homeowners' associations putting such restrictions on homeowners to be repugnant, I also find no language in the Constitution that grants Congress the power to make a law such as this uphold property rights that existed at the time it was written.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Corrected it for you.

28 posted on 07/25/2006 10:52:34 AM PDT by MrEdd (Bad spellers of the world - UNTIE!,)
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To: pageonetoo
If a guy can fly a huge American flag by the same token he could fly a huge Nazi flag.
29 posted on 07/25/2006 10:53:17 AM PDT by oyez (The way to punish a providence is to allow it to be governed by philosophers. --Frederick the Great)
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To: All

We live in an Association. It's a development right next to Hoosier National Woods. There are 24 lots, so it's a small association.

From what I can see, the Association facilitates road maintenance (we have gravel roads). It negotiates on our behalf for garbage services. The 'rules' are primarily to protect our property values first, and then secondarily the overall experience of living there. Most of us live out here because we respect peace and quiet, nature, outdoor activities and privacy.

We don't have a lot of rules, and rather than create a rule, the first approach is simply to talk to a homeowner or lot owner if some behavior is problematic.

My sister recently built on a lot out here, and her neighbor's boy was running a four-wheeler up and down the road. He was running it full speed, and it was really loud. It would go on all day on the weekends, and during the evenings during the week.

My sister was getting herself all worked up about setting up 'rules' at the next association meeting. But I said, 'why don't you speak to the neighbor or to the Association President first. He's just a kid. And some people really don't know they are disturbing others unless they are told. They might surprise you and respond without making a big deal out of it.'

Sure enough, the fast, loud, and endless 4 wheeling ceased. The boy now rides around sensibly, and the engine only purrs.


30 posted on 07/25/2006 10:56:23 AM PDT by Madeleine Ward
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To: oyez
I anticipate a large increase in the amount of rainbow flags throughout HOAs across the country.
31 posted on 07/25/2006 10:56:38 AM PDT by HEY4QDEMS (Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.)
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To: oyez
If a guy can fly a huge American flag by the same token he could fly a huge Nazi flag.

I believe that such an action is already barred by law on the grounds that it would be 'disturbing the peace".  I THINK that swastikas can only be displayed during legally sanctioned marches and rallies, although I may be in error.

32 posted on 07/25/2006 10:57:44 AM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Madeleine Ward
Association facilitates road maintenance (we have gravel roads). It negotiates on our behalf for garbage services.

You can form a co-op with your neighboors and achieve the same thing without giving someone the authority to impose rules on you.
33 posted on 07/25/2006 10:59:28 AM PDT by HEY4QDEMS (Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.)
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To: VeniVidiVici
Here's a big raspberry for all of you that love HOAs

Here's a big wet f@rt for HOA lovers.

34 posted on 07/25/2006 11:00:41 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government)
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To: oyez
If a guy can fly a huge American flag by the same token he could fly a huge Nazi flag.

Yep. But, this is about an American's Flag, and about legislation concerning who has the right to fly the American flags wherever in America.

I didn't read anything that would allow the nazi flag.

35 posted on 07/25/2006 11:03:26 AM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: Stoat

Anything bad for the tyrants in the HOAs is good for America. This is a good law.


36 posted on 07/25/2006 11:04:07 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: HEY4QDEMS

We didn't give them the authority.

It was a development and association that we bought into.

We are not having any problems with our association, its function, nor with the 'rules' which are neither restrictive nor intrusive.

I have read about some of the nightmare stories, but we are not experiencing any such problems.

Of course, we don't have moonbat neighbors.


37 posted on 07/25/2006 11:07:00 AM PDT by Madeleine Ward
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To: Steve_Seattle
"This country was founded to some extent by people who created what are now called "intentional communities," i.e., communities formed around a particular religious or social ideal."

A point often overlooked or intentionally kept down, when contemplating the fabric of American society.

The central states used to be the Bible belt ... Now it's "fly over country" .. as if to say, no one stops there to live, just those hick farmers.

We'd better get a hold on what words are used in our language and continually fight against the modern definition and practice of multi-culturalism.

38 posted on 07/25/2006 11:22:44 AM PDT by knarf (A place where anyone can learn anything ... especially that which promotes clear thinking.)
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To: top 2 toe red
I take it you have been in your Seattle property for a long time...but, surely you must know that MOST property on the Eastside REQUIRES membership in a HOA.

I'm actually in Shoreline, since 1983; I grew up in Seattle proper. The only HOA community that I was aware of was Mill Creek, where my sister almost moved, but declined because of the HOA stuff. But I guess you're right - a lot of these new East Side, quasi-country club developments probably have HOA rules.
39 posted on 07/25/2006 2:20:57 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: mysterio
"Anything bad for the tyrants in the HOAs is good for America. This is a good law."

I think it's a serious mistake to see this law as a triumph for individual rights. It's a triumph of federal power over state and local rights, which only incidentally happens to favor individual homeowners in this case.
40 posted on 07/25/2006 2:24:13 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: from occupied ga
"Here's a big raspberry for all of you that love HOAs."

I don't think there's a lot of LOVE for them; for most of us who question the law this is an issue of federal power overextending itself, not love of HOAs. A lot of conservatives on this thread are thinking like liberals, i.e., "if I don't like something, the federal government should ban it."
41 posted on 07/25/2006 2:27:24 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: Steve_Seattle

In this case, the locality is tyranny and deserves to lose. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing all mandatory HOAs dissolved and banned. All should be voluntary. It's not voluntary if you have to sign it as a condition of sale. If someone wants to sign away their property rights, then that's their business. But if they are forced to as a condition of the sale, that's wrong and should be stopped.


42 posted on 07/25/2006 3:04:14 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: Stoat

AWESOME! Gotta love small government.


43 posted on 07/25/2006 6:58:43 PM PDT by NoCurrentFreeperByThatName
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To: Stoat

Wellll.....now I wonder when they'll address the fact that HOA's don't allow POLITICAL SIGNS.....in windows, yards, etc.....at least at our Condo complex......our HOA when we lived in a house DID allow signs for a very discreet period of time....


44 posted on 07/25/2006 8:52:57 PM PDT by goodnesswins ( The Dems are so far to the left they have left America.)
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To: goodnesswins
Wellll.....now I wonder when they'll address the fact that HOA's don't allow POLITICAL SIGNS.....in windows, yards, etc.....at least at our Condo complex......our HOA when we lived in a house DID allow signs for a very discreet period of time....

It seems that the Left has come to regard the American flag as an evil, Right-wing political sign anyway  :-)

45 posted on 07/25/2006 8:58:07 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Steve_Seattle
don't think there's a lot of LOVE for them; for most of us who question the law this is an issue of federal power overextending itself, not love of HOAs. A lot of conservatives on this thread are thinking like liberals, i.e., "if I don't like something, the federal government should ban it."

HOAs are little tyrannies that prevent you from using your property - they aren't governments, but have governmental powers without representation. In some respects they are more akin to organized crime families than anything else, although they stick to extortion and haven't wacked anyone yet.

46 posted on 07/26/2006 4:14:02 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government)
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To: Stoat

What does the bill say vs. what the news report says.


47 posted on 07/26/2006 4:21:46 AM PDT by The Red Zone
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