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To: Tex Pete

My grandfather had squared off against the Japanese on both Guadalcanal and Peleliu (where he lost his foot and a portion of his leg), so I can understand your take on that particular situation.

My contention, and I'll admit it's wholly academic, is that another way could have been found. The only restraints in the path of those potential-other-ways was the imagination and ingenuity of American commanders, the political situations (foreign and domestic) at the time, and the desire to see the "boys come home" as quickly as possible.

In a scientific sense, Hiroshima was unneccessary, in my opinion, and the decision was driven not by military factors (i.e. efficiency and avoidance of casualities,although the bombs certainly helped in these ways) but by political ones. And that even when the decision was made, the aftermath with regards to Japan, was certainly far different that what had been previosuly stated as Allied war aims.


12 posted on 07/28/2006 8:48:11 AM PDT by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
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To: Wombat101

I agree that the outcome was different, but The Japanese were willing to sacrifice everything to defeat us. Women, children, it made no difference. They felt they had nothing to lose.

Our bombs just made them lose less than they would have in a land war. But, they still lost. The war ended. As a military tactic, dropping the bomb could not have been more of a success. Who knows how long the war in Japan would have lasted? And boys did get to come home to their families.


16 posted on 07/28/2006 8:54:13 AM PDT by Tex Pete
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To: Wombat101
Hiroshima was unneccessary...

Hogwash.

1. In the entire war, not one single Japanese officer had surrendered the troops under his command. Surrender was not and never would have been an option. Furthermore, the home island was no more outmanned that Iwo Jima. How many Japanese surrendered there?

2. We had broken their code, and were listening to them. No Japanese official was discussing surrender, despite whatever fairy tale you have bought into. And, finally, Sherman deliberately avoided military targets and attacked civilians. Give me an example of one MILITARY target that he attacked.

32 posted on 07/28/2006 9:21:13 AM PDT by Aegedius (Veni, vidi, icked-kay utt-bay.)
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To: Wombat101

My contention, and I'll admit it's wholly academic, is that another way could have been found.




Actually no other ways could be found, hence we dropped two atomic weapons. Some of the Japanese military leadership tried to find ways to negotiate but the Emperor wouldn't have anything of it. It wasn't until after Nagasaki that the Emperor realized he was completely crushed. Then the Prime Minister was able to take over and negotiate.

Also, try telling the troops on the ground that you have access to this weapon that could get them to capitulate without any of our boys having to land on Japanese soil, but we aren't going to use it because, well it would just do too much damage.

The only thing I can say is you would have mutiny on your hands.

The parallels to today are striking. I heard it recommended recently that we should fall back to our 'MAD' mutually assured destruction that kept USSR in check for 40 years.

Tell the Muzzies that they got the World Trade Center, if we get hit again we take out Tehran. If they continue, we hit Damascus. If they continue, we hit Mecca, during the Haj, etc.

At some point they WILL learn that we are serious and that we are not to be #^$*ed with. Everything else is pussyfooting around the problem.


35 posted on 07/28/2006 9:25:41 AM PDT by SFC Chromey (We are at war with Islamists, now ACT LIKE IT!)
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To: Wombat101
Hiroshima was unneccessary, in my opinion, and the decision was driven not by military factors . . . but by political ones.

Your comments are chillingly arrogant. US invasion casualties were forecast to be over one million men.

36 posted on 07/28/2006 9:26:09 AM PDT by Jacquerie (Democrats soil institutions.)
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To: Wombat101
"In a scientific sense, Hiroshima was unneccessary..."

That's why it was chosen as the drop-site instead of Tokyo.

93 posted on 07/28/2006 11:31:47 AM PDT by azhenfud (He who always is looking up seldom finds others' lost change.)
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To: Wombat101
My contention, and I'll admit it's wholly academic, is that another way could have been found.

Your contention has a precedent. World War I was ended by your "other way". Since it did not demonstrate to the Germans that they had really lost, they did not believe it and took "another round" to prove to the world that they were able to defeat their enemies.

The author is absolutely correct. Until an opponent is convinced in their own mind, that they are defeated, there will just be another round later.

If you ever got involved in a civil lawsuit, you would know how it works. It doesn't stop or go away until your opponent is prostrate and recognizes they are defeated.

It isn't just "wars" that have that dynamic.

134 posted on 08/09/2006 11:04:15 AM PDT by Dan(9698)
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To: Wombat101
My contention, and I'll admit it's wholly academic, is that another way could have been found. The only restraints in the path of those potential-other-ways was the imagination and ingenuity of American commanders, the political situations (foreign and domestic) at the time, and the desire to see the "boys come home" as quickly as possible.

Come on, you're the dreamer, the "idealist"...you tell US what should have been done, and make the case why it worked.

I think your post merely proves that nothing is impossible...as long as it's somebody else's job.

139 posted on 08/11/2006 12:02:03 PM PDT by gogeo (The /sarc tag is a form of training wheels for those unable to discern intellectual subtlety.)
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