 I must asks though, Where do you store megawatts?In a 2200 gazillion micro farad capacitor. |
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Posted on 07/28/2006 9:12:42 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
A record-setting thirst for power during the heat wave that has scorched the state this month caught Department of Water and Power officials by surprise, the Los Angeles Times reported Friday.
Before this week, the utility's highest peak energy use was recorded at 5,661 megawatts. A stretch of 100-plus temperatures this week, however, created a demand that set a new all-time high of 6,165 megawatts - shocking DWP officials who predicted power usage wouldn't top 6,100 megawatts for four years.
"They didn't even believe our customers could ever put such a load on our system - that we could even have energy use from our customers up to that kind level," DWP board member David Nahai told the Times.
The utility serves 1.4 million customers.
Officials attributed the surge to demand for 24-hour air conditioner use and the popularity of energy-eating large-screen plasma TVs.
DWP Commissioner Nick Patsaouras chastised officials for allowing the utility's equipment to grow obsolete.
"We know staff knew for a long time," he said. "You know when equipment is bad."
The DWP has not yet counted how many customers lost power during the heat wave, which coroners said has claimed close to 100 lives.
Southern California Edison, which serves 4.7 million customers across Southern California, did a better job predicting power demand. It planned for usage of up to 23,000 megawatts, slightly more than the 22,889 megawatts peak, said Ron Litzinger, senior vice president of transmission and distribution for SCE.
The utility still had about 1.1 million customers lose power, officials said.
Yeah, but at least they got clean air from not building more power plants. I guess the greenies are not doing enough conservation. /s
I read a post at DUmmy land yesterday where a moonbat (responding to an article that stated it was the enviro-wackos fault for stopping new power plants) said it's not the demand it's the old cables that the "greedy" power companies have not bothered to replace.
Power generation is the big problem, but it would help if there was newer cable technology in place - this would allow greater storage and sharing of power among regions.
If Californians and the environmentalists were really serious, they'd start building a pair of Nuclear Power plants, tommorrow. Shame they take so long to build..
I agree but I would also think that if you built new plants you would also be laying new cable.
They are going to need to build more power generating plant and it will probably have to be nuclear. There must be something in improving efficiency though...there is an awful lot of waste going on.
"storage of power"? I am picturing the world's biggest capacitor...
OH no! Not EEEEEEEvil nuclear power! (sarc/off) I agree to new plants ASAP. And Nuke is defiantly at least part of the answer. Even France gets something like 60% of it's power this way. Did ya ever notice how the lefties say we should be :more like EU" except when it's something that could actually BENEFIT us instead of just costing us money or freedoms?
I'll give you the the "sharing power between regions" because new transmission definately needs to be built.
I must asks though, Where do you store megawatts?
Shocked? Again?
What does Joseph Graham Davis Jr. have to say about this? *SMIRK*
I am so glad I left CA in 1982 and never looked back. :)
Puh-leaze! The energy use of plasma TVs is a miniscule thing in the overall picture. This line was put in the article as a shot against "the rich". How about "AC used by the elderly"?
So, the draw states like CA, NM, AZ, TX, NC and others wouldn't place and additional power demand on the national and local grids after 30 million illegal people have been allowed to walk on in??
Ironically, they could have both clean air and plenty of electricity. How? Go nuclear. But the wackos trashed a perfectly good nuclear generator when they threw away Rancho Seco back in the 1980s. That cost 900 MW right there. They also threw away another 500 MW of capacity when they trashed SONGS-1. Then another 1100 MW of zero-emissions source was gone when they blasted Trojan to the ground up in Oregon. All told, about 2500 MW of zero-emissions capacity thrown away for no good reason that would come in mighty handy during these periods of high demand. The wackos are the ones to blame, and any Californian/Oregonian who enabled these scumbags to play their dirty tricks.
There are transmission lines that are also capable of storing power - the July issue of Scientific American has a decent article that touches on this subject.
If they were really surprised then this just shows that they are totally incompetent and should be fired immediately. If they expected it and did nothing and are lying about being surprised, then this just show that they are totally incompetent and should be fired immediately.
Check appendix A, page 31 here.
(If you can believe the NRDC.)
I will certainly take that into account when we ever get a plasma wall display or can afford one.
Thanks for the link
| I must asks though, Where do you store megawatts? In a 2200 gazillion micro farad capacitor. |
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Link? If they have a battery that will store A.C. power, I would want to invest heavily in it.
Aluminum is never installed around a copper core. Steel cores are sometimes used to allow longer spans and lower sags between supports.
Wouldn't that be 'farad' and not 'micro-farad'?
:)
They do not. Having a capactive charging current is not the same as storing power.
Rancho Seco was a victim of activist ballot initiatives. The greenies kept trying year after year to get a majority vote to close Rancho Seco. Once closed, where were the yearly initiatives to re-open?
Trojan was shutdown for a number of reasons, one was greenie pressure (We have plenty of hydroelectric, why have nuclear? Oh, and by the way we now have to get rid of these pesky damns that hurt the salmon.), one was the need to replace the steam generators (With license extensions still in an uncertain future, there may not be a return on investment) and the cost of upgrading some systems.
SONGS1 is a unique case and really had nothing to do with greenie pressure directly. Many plants in the US are finding themselves with dwindling room in the Fuel Pools to store spent fuel. This was to be addressed by opening Yucca Mountain (There is the greenie pressure).
Since there is no repository yet, and since SONGS is 'landlocked and unable to expand (Bound by the Pacific to the west, I-5 to the East, and 'sensitive public beaches to the north and south) SONGS needed a place to build its Dry Fuel Storage Facility to house spent fuel not only from Unit 1, but also Units 2 and 3. So, Unit 1 was decommisioned due to expensive needed upgrades as well as the need for real estate to build a Dry Fule Storage.
But, lets also not forget the debacle up in Washington state. WPPS abandoned a 90% built plant, and 1 or 2 others when a giant bond funded construction program fell apart. What was supposed to be 4 or so plants running, ended up being just 1.
We have, nation wide, lost Maine Yankee, Connecticut Yankee, Millstone 1, Big Rock Point in addition to the plants discussed above. It is more than time to begin construction on a new generation of nuclear plants in this country. IMHO
"Having a capactive charging current is not the same as storing power."
And since current travels on the wires 'surface' and not through the 'core' than it's capacity to store energy would insignificant to the charge being passed.
would BE insignificant...
Typing ahead of my brain!
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| Wouldn't that be 'farad' and not 'micro-farad'? Well, if I knew what the term was immediately preceding "gazillion".... yes. :) |
And don't forget Zion in Illinois and Shoreham in NY. Shoreham was a particularly galling one. Oh-so Cuomo punched a hole in the pressure vessel of that one and was so proud to do so.
The tone of this article angers me. The DWP has a product to sell. As a supplier, they should develop enough product to meet demand.
Let's flash back to prior summers. During each we have either blackouts, rolling blackouts or begging of consumers to conserve energy or face blackouts. Does this reflect any redundancy whatsoever?
Instead the DWP actually blames customers for using energy. They blame new electronic products that increase demand. In short they blame everyone but their own shortsighted planning.
The DWP has plenty to say these days. So do I. Hey DWP, F. U.! Pull your head out of your a-- and get with the program.
No. That won't happen. Next year they'll be running commecials to ask folks to not use their product. They'll also be receiving lots of free air-time from the local television stations. Don't use thier product... Don't use their product.
Just damn. If they can't handle the job, then it's time to find a better way of supplying demand, one that doesn't involve casting the public as 'the bad guy' if they have the audacity to turn on a light switch.
If Joe consumer can afford to turn on the light switch, he should do so, and the DWP should SHUT THE F UP, and get off ther a-- and develop more energy!
OK, I'll fess up. My dog demanded to watch "Animal Planet" on my 60" flat panel. He insisted to lie under the ceiling fan as well.
Moosedog sends his regrets to the power officials.
They had a perfectly good one constructed near Sacramento that the environuts sued and got dismantled just before it could be fuelled and go operational. There's another one that just needs seismic and equipment upgrades (San Onofre, IIRC) that is shut down because the operators don't want to go through the endless lawsuits that they would incur if they fixed it and started it back up.
No sympathies for Kalifornia in this case. They did it to themselves.
Zion was a victim of Union stupidity. The Control Room operators were known for being some what unprofessional. The NRC finally tired of the games and pulled their "Keys".
Uh,Oh. Watch out Texas those Fruit and Nuts want to use up all that spare capacity you so wisely built. Make sure you charge them replacement cost fot the Kilowatt hours.
For right now, TX is a net generator state, IIRC. And we're building lots of new generating plants.
I think Shoreham was one of the early victims of this de facto veto power and until the regulators plugged this loophole many plants were being held hostage to it. Remember when the Duke Of Kak (Kukakis) ordered his thugs (state employees) to tear down Seabrook's emergency sirens where they were located in MA? The utility had to take him to court on that one and file vandalism charges.
So the local scumbags in Suffolk Co. said Shoreham's emergency plan was garbage and "wouldn't work", so they didn't authorize participation in it by local agencies and personnel. But IIRC a few years later a hurricane came ashore on LI and they local scumwads dusted off the Shoreham evac plans and used them to herd people out of harm's way. Worked like a champ. Interesting how when it cam to the nuke plant "it wouldn't work", but worked just fine when push came to shove on the hurricane.
However, I've never seen that many cross sections of 72.5 kV XLPE - 420 kV XLPE cables, which look like mostly all copper which I think is what the utilities use for the really big stuff.
I've always admired Texans. They know how to work, when to work, make money and grow a company. Smart!!
They put copper (or aluminum) on the outer shell of the wire, cladding, because that is where the electricity runs. There are some old WW II power line wires that are copper coated (very thin layer) steel wire laying on the ground where they were taken out of service here because it was not worth the expense to take it up, which it would be if it were solid copper.
Nearly all utility company cables are aluminum. Industrial users tend to be the ones buying copper cable. Although my experience in insulated conductors only goes to 138kV.
They don't have to replace the cables to stop the power outages just unplug Michael Moore's fridge and turn off the AC at Barbra Streisand's house. There problem solved!
They may have done so in the 40's but such products have not been made for many decades.
http://www.cable.alcan.com/alcancable/en-US/Products/United+States/
http://www.okonite.com/Product_Catalog/section2/index.html
http://www.generalcable.com/GeneralCable/en-US/Products/ElectricUtilityCables/Catalog/ProEleCatalog.htm
Large-screen plasma TVs are the new SUV.
That could power 5 flux capacitors.
I've only had experience with the OPGW/OPPC cables where optical fiber had been placed. I've done the optical qualification testing (mechanical/environmental) for the OPGW/OPPC cable designs.
One thing is for sure....a fellow don't make many mistakes and still work on the high transmission stuff.
I've always said: WOW!!! when the inspectors / workers ride the trolley bucket of those tower lines hundreds of feet up. I've seen a phase to phase short on some 72 kV transmission lines from a good distance....that was some fireworks and smoke and noise.
We also have West Texas, where there's miles and miles of *nothing*. Any installation that's dangerous while operating or is just plain hideously ugly can be put out there, and nobody much cares about it then. About all that's out there is snakes and scorpions, and nobody here likes those.
Unlike California, which has the Mojave desert, yet can't seem to do anything in it due to some imaginary endangered species of arachnid or something.
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