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EU Launches Antitrust Probe Against Blu-ray and HD DVD
DailyTech ^ | July 28, 2006 | Tuan Nguyen

Posted on 07/28/2006 2:23:29 PM PDT by rivercat

European Commission said a full investigation may follow

Just when we think that Blu-ray and HD DVD will start showing up in mass production, the two formats enter into more trouble, this time with the European Commission. According to reports, the European Commission believes that the companies that are backing each format may have licensing terms that breach European competition rules. The report said that the European Commission launched an unofficial antitrust probe this month.

Toshiba, the leading company behind HD DVD and Sony the leading company behind Blu-ray both received letters from the European Commission earlier this month. According to a European Commission representative, "we sent a letter earlier this month to the makers of HD DVD and Blu-ray to request information about licensing." Toshiba did not respond to inquiries but Sony confirmed that it did receive a letter from the European Commission.

The European Commission is still waiting for all replies to come back. It will then decide whether or not to pursue a full anti-trust probe. A representative from Sony told reporters that "there are no indications of any complaint, nor of any antitrust concerns on the part of the Commission or anyone else."

Sony's Blu-ray format has been facing a barrage of issues since the start of the year. Sony's own Blu-ray players have been suffering from continual delays. According to earlier reports, Sony will be shipping its first Blu-ray player will be shipping only slightly ahead of its PlayStation 3 console -- currently scheduled for November 17th. On the HD DVD side, Toshiba announced earlier that it would be shipping its HD DVD players at a loss to gain a head start.



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Technical
KEYWORDS: bluray; eu; hddvd; sony
They also have a heated discussion between EU weenies and Americans about which place is better...
1 posted on 07/28/2006 2:23:31 PM PDT by rivercat
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To: rdb3; chance33_98; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; Bush2000; PenguinWry; GodGunsandGuts; CyberCowboy777; ...

2 posted on 07/28/2006 2:25:10 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: dcam

It will be Deja-Vu all over again for SONY.


3 posted on 07/28/2006 2:26:31 PM PDT by HarmlessLovableFuzzball
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To: HarmlessLovableFuzzball

Why's that? Neither format is a proprietary Sony format.


4 posted on 07/28/2006 2:27:45 PM PDT by Terpfen
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To: All

Both Blu-ray and HD-DVD will go the way of Betamax. So let it be written, so let it be done...


5 posted on 07/28/2006 2:29:07 PM PDT by MaestroLC
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To: dcam

How can they both be anti-trust - they are competitors?


6 posted on 07/28/2006 2:37:07 PM PDT by gondramB (Named must your fear be before banish it you can.)
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To: Terpfen

Sony is spearheading the BluRay format, so its safe to say Sony = Blu Ray. In a market as competitive as this a few months can make all the difference, not to mention Blu Ray being the significantly more expensive format. Also I doubt in practical viewing terms BR is going to look any better than HDDVD.


7 posted on 07/28/2006 2:39:40 PM PDT by HarmlessLovableFuzzball
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To: HarmlessLovableFuzzball

>>Sony is spearheading the BluRay format, so its safe to say Sony = Blu Ray. In a market as competitive as this a few months can make all the difference, not to mention Blu Ray being the significantly more expensive format. Also I doubt in practical viewing terms BR is going to look any better than HDDVD.<<

I don't know... on a PC, non-interlaced makes a difference - maybe it will on DVD's.


8 posted on 07/28/2006 2:41:27 PM PDT by gondramB (Named must your fear be before banish it you can.)
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To: gondramB
How can they both be anti-trust - they are competitors?

Remember these are European Union bureaucrats.

9 posted on 07/28/2006 2:42:17 PM PDT by RJL
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To: dcam

Anyone other than me notice that Europe seems to be doing extraordinary things to hold back progress? They sue Microsoft for being too successful, and not freely distributing the source code. They try to sue Apple for not freely supporting non-iPod music players with iTunes. Now they are trying to kill a new technology that will allow us to make HDTV movies in a portable format ecomically viable.

Just as Beta vs. VHS; market forces will determine which technology will win, not some gov't beaucrat. This is the way it has always been, and the way it should be. If you can make a better technology, go for it.


10 posted on 07/28/2006 2:43:29 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, come Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: dcam
Launching two formats at once is brain dead. Everyone will just wait to see which one survives. We have VCR/Betamax as a precedent.
11 posted on 07/28/2006 2:46:07 PM PDT by John Lenin (It was like going to church, except Ozzy Osbourne was there)
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To: RJL
>>How can they both be anti-trust - they are competitors?

Remember these are European Union bureaucrats.<<


Good point - American bureaucrats are actually not the worst in the world.
12 posted on 07/28/2006 2:46:30 PM PDT by gondramB (Named must your fear be before banish it you can.)
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To: Terpfen; HarmlessLovableFuzzball

Though you live for obfuscation and (attempted) know-it-all-ism, the fact is Sony stands the most to lose if Blu-ray tanks--you know it, I know it and HLF knows it--so his point is valid in the context that yet another format Sony is backing will, potentially, meet an untimely end.

Further, if BR goes belly-up (or merely meets LD levels of acceptance), PS3 will be in far worse shape than it already finds itself--of which you are also well aware. So, please, spare us any further steps in the Sony-can-do-no-wrong tap dance as it grows extremely tiresome and predictable.


13 posted on 07/28/2006 2:48:11 PM PDT by ECM (Government is a make-work program for lawyers.)
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To: dcam
Europe is devoid of the entrepreneurial spirit and,thus,invents *nothing* that's not connected with wine or cheese.

So all that's left for them to do is to throw a temper tantrum.

14 posted on 07/28/2006 2:53:54 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative
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To: ECM

Who said anything about 'Sony-can-do-no-wrong' ? I couldn't care less about Sony. I don't like the company or their products, especially the way they feature-package products in a hierarchical line up. Sony's heyday is long gone.


15 posted on 07/28/2006 3:02:47 PM PDT by HarmlessLovableFuzzball
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To: ECM
So, please, spare us any further steps in the Sony-can-do-no-wrong tap dance as it grows extremely tiresome and predictable.

Spare you something I never said or attempted to say. Gotcha. Do you have any other imaginary grievances with my one and only post in this thread, which merely served to point out that Blu-Ray is not a Sony proprietary format?

Thank you for pointing out the obvious about Sony's counting on the Blu-Ray format to succeed. No thank you for wasting my time with your indignation over my saying that neither HD-DVD or Blu-Ray is a Sony proprietary format.
16 posted on 07/28/2006 4:07:59 PM PDT by Terpfen
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To: HarmlessLovableFuzzball

He was referring to me; he only cited you in the reply so you would be sure to catch his reply to my post.

Apparently I'm a Sony fanboy for pointing out a fact.


17 posted on 07/28/2006 4:09:12 PM PDT by Terpfen
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To: dcam

In related news, Blu-Ray and DVD invite the European Union to develop their own format, presumably called "EU Vision".


18 posted on 07/28/2006 4:10:15 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: dcam
On the HD DVD side, Toshiba announced earlier that it would be shipping its HD DVD players at a loss to gain a head start.

I thought that was illegal. Or is it only if they sell the same product for more at home?

19 posted on 07/28/2006 4:11:08 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: HarmlessLovableFuzzball

Blu-Ray uber alles.


20 posted on 07/28/2006 4:13:46 PM PDT by Bogey78O (<thinking of new tagline>)
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: Hodar

What the EU and its populations cannnot grasp is that one does not build dynamic economies by enacting 32-hour work weeks and forcing businesses to give everyone a month off in the middle of summer. The power of creativity cannot survive overwhelming handicaps on the capital investments needed to turn creativity into production. Tax burdens and a lack of an open market approach to labor dooms the EU, especially the Old Europe members, to economic ennui and decay, especially as its populations age and fewer workers must support the social programs servicing an increasing number of retirees.


22 posted on 07/28/2006 5:27:59 PM PDT by Right_Wing_Madman
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To: Hodar
Anyone other than me notice that Europe seems to be doing extraordinary things to hold back progress?

Or preventing abusive license terms that strip consumers of rights and serve to eliminate competition.

They sue Microsoft for being too successful, and not freely distributing the source code.

They never asked or wanted Microsoft to distribute source code, only complete documentation so that others could interoperate with their monopoly OS and fair terms for licensing to interoperate.

23 posted on 07/28/2006 7:49:44 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: ShadowAce

how can tech companies be so smart and SO stupid at the same time.


24 posted on 07/28/2006 7:50:00 PM PDT by postaldave (McCain & Bush, you traitorous !#!$!!s. you two are no different then ted kennedy.)
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To: gondramB
How can they both be anti-trust - they are competitors?

EU ensuring they get a piece of the pie?

25 posted on 07/28/2006 7:57:29 PM PDT by operation clinton cleanup
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To: gondramB
How can they both be anti-trust - they are competitors?

My understanding is that Sony wants to prohibit Blu-Ray licensees from also manufacturing HD-DVD players (including dual-format players). IMO, that sounds like a potential anti-trust situation.

26 posted on 07/29/2006 11:41:22 AM PDT by HAL9000 (Get a Mac - The Ultimate FReeping Machine)
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To: HAL9000
>>My understanding is that Sony wants to prohibit Blu-Ray licensees from also manufacturing HD-DVD players (including dual-format players). IMO, that sounds like a potential anti-trust situation.<<

This is one of those situations where self interest and principle diverge.

Personally I think it sux that they agree on one standard or dual compatibility.

But then there is the principal - Sony has an invention - should they be able to choose who to license it too or are there government rules that might force them to license the technology against their will? I'm a free market, small government, conservative so I think the answer is almost always "no."

Sometimes I can justify that sort of government regulation like if somebody controls all the refineries and won't let a gas station buy any gas unless they sell half the station to him at a reduced price.

In other words when a company with a monopoly is using a monopoly in one area to force an unfair advantage in another area.

But Sony isn't a monopoly - they are in a life and death struggle with Microsoft for control of the home theater/entertainment center. MS has a two pronged approach - Windows media center and the XBox360 while Sony is gambling everything pricing the new PlayStation almost double to include BlueRay. If the government forces them to license the technology to people who make the competitor it could sink the Play Station and Sony's battle for the living room. And the video game market is now bigger than the movie market or or the CD market.

So naturally I want Sony to lose this battle because self interest wins out- I want dual format players since they couldn't agree on one stadard. Plus I have a Xbox360 and I'm pissed off at Sony over root kits.
27 posted on 07/29/2006 12:06:40 PM PDT by gondramB (Named must your fear be before banish it you can.)
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To: gondramB
But then there is the principal - Sony has an invention - should they be able to choose who to license it too or are there government rules that might force them to license the technology against their will? I'm a free market, small government, conservative so I think the answer is almost always "no."

That's a perfectly respectable position, but it won't get us a dual-format player.

If it comes down to a choice between one or the other, I'll pick Blu-Ray because it is the superior technology, and most of the content providers are leaning toward it as a distribution medium.

28 posted on 07/29/2006 12:36:03 PM PDT by HAL9000 (Get a Mac - The Ultimate FReeping Machine)
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To: HAL9000

>>That's a perfectly respectable position, but it won't get us a dual-format player.<<

Exactly. And you are right that Blue Ray is the superior format.

So I just admit I'm inconsistant - if I tried to justify my desire for Sony to get forced to allow dual format drives I might say something like "for the greater good" and I'd have to call myself a socialist - well actually I'm too polite for that... but I'd think it.


29 posted on 07/29/2006 1:03:58 PM PDT by gondramB (Named must your fear be before banish it you can.)
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To: gondramB
if I tried to justify my desire for Sony to get forced to allow dual format drives I might say something like "for the greater good"

The market will probably do that on its own.

The fundamental difference between DVDs and videotapes - that the competing formats are the same size, and that a dual-format solution is possible - is the only reason this won't be VHS vs. Betamax redux.

30 posted on 07/29/2006 1:11:32 PM PDT by jude24 ("I will oppose the sword if it's not wielded well, because my enemies are men like me.")
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To: postaldave

Smart engineers, dumb marketing guys. IOW, the usual.


31 posted on 07/29/2006 2:33:55 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: antiRepublicrat
Or preventing abusive license terms that strip consumers of rights and serve to eliminate competition.

Why is iTunes obliged to service Creative's line of players? Why does Apple have to support players made by the competition? Must Coke machines also distribute Pepsi product? Sorry, if I sell Big Macs; it's not my job to provide Whoppers on the menu too. That is the job of the competition.

Microsoft is not a monopoly. You are free (literally, in some cases) to download and run any OS you like - we have Linux, Apple, Solaris, Unix, DrDOS, JavaOS, BeOS and others. Take your pick. Why is Microsoft responsible to provide applications to the competition? Does Ford have to provide windshields, seats or stereo components for Chevy? Sorry, you are responsible only for what you make. Selling the competition's products is counter to what capitalism is. You make the best product you can, you distribute it as best as you can, you provide superior support and make your product competitively priced ... and the world will beat a path to your door.

Unless you are an American company. If I buy a Schlumberger (French company) tester; guess what? I can't put Tektronics, HP or Teradyne software/hardware upgrades. Is this unfair? No; Schlumberger makes a proprietary product; just like Microsoft and Apple. It's not Schlumberger's problem or responsibility to support the competition; nor should it be.

32 posted on 07/29/2006 3:29:45 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, come Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Hodar
Why is iTunes obliged to service Creative's line of players?

It shouldn't. I never said the EU doesn't sometimes go too far. But when it comes to software and the MPAA, licensing terms do go too far, stripping basic consumer rights.

Microsoft is not a monopoly.

Yes it is, convicted on both continents. But remember that a monopoly itself isn't bad or illegal, but leveraging that monopoly in an anti-competitive fashion is.

Why is Microsoft responsible to provide applications to the competition?

They are legally obligated to provide Office for the Mac due to a settlement with Apple. Although I think that might have run out by now.

Unless you are an American company.

The EU already has about a billion Euros in fines against European companies. The biggest was price fixing in the vitamin market by some very big companies you've heard of, like Hoffmann-La Roche. I believe we also fined them about half a billion dollars.

It's not Schlumberger's problem or responsibility to support the competition; nor should it be.

But if Schlumberger had a monopoly and leveraged it to force out competition, it could be in trouble and have to make amends, which usually means having to help out the competition.

33 posted on 07/29/2006 6:06:25 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat
I never said the EU doesn't sometimes go too far.

Because you basically never say anything remotely critical of Europeans, just as we see here, you usually rush to their defense instead.

34 posted on 07/31/2006 3:13:59 PM PDT by Golden Eagle (Buy American. While you still can.)
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To: gondramB
The government could get rid of patents. Then any company could make a dual format player. Patents are government interference in the market, so either getting rid of them or forcing all patent holders to license patents would be closer to the free market than super strict patents.

I am not saying they should really do this but I am saying it would be consistent with a free market. I also think new movie formats would be developed even without patents since the movie studios have enough financial interest in funding a new format specification.

35 posted on 07/31/2006 7:43:00 PM PDT by On the Road to Serfdom
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To: Golden Eagle
Because you basically never say anything remotely critical of Europeans, just as we see here, you usually rush to their defense instead.

So correcting ignorance is rushing to defense? Any time this antitrust stuff comes up there's someone who says it's targeted against American companies, when that is not the case.

Things like Blu-Ray need to be looked at because they have the potential to violate basic consumer and even constitutional (at least in the US) rights. Even iTunes needs a look because it may deny First Sale.

36 posted on 08/01/2006 7:57:22 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: MaestroLC
Both Blu-ray and HD-DVD will go the way of Betamax. So let it be written, so let it be done...

More like the way of Digital Audio Tape, and for the same reason.

37 posted on 08/01/2006 7:59:20 AM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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To: dcam

I'm about freakin' tired of the EUroweenies.


38 posted on 08/01/2006 8:10:46 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Rabid ethnicist.)
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To: On the Road to Serfdom

>>The government could get rid of patents. Then any company could make a dual format player. Patents are government interference in the market, so either getting rid of them or forcing all patent holders to license patents would be closer to the free market than super strict patents.

I am not saying they should really do this but I am saying it would be consistent with a free market. I also think new movie formats would be developed even without patents since the movie studios have enough financial interest in funding a new format specification.<<


I've never read the theory on our patent law but I've read that our copyright law was specifically written to fill the libraries with books, not for free market purposes but to encourage people to both create and then disseminate.


39 posted on 08/01/2006 9:06:08 AM PDT by gondramB (Named must your fear be before banish it you can.)
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Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

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