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US credibility harmed by aid to Israel
(Pakistan) Dawn ^ | July 31, 20061 | Faiza Saleh Ambah

Posted on 07/31/2006 1:33:43 PM PDT by tessalu

JEDDAH: Ever since the seizure of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah sparked an Israeli offensive in Lebanon, Huda Fatani has set her alarm for 3:15 each morning, gotten up to perform her ablutions, then spent more than an hour on her knees praying for the success of Lebanese militia.

Despite her gruelling days at the King Fahd Hospital, where she works as a hematologist, Fatani said this was the least she could do to support the group fighting on behalf of all Arabs.

Hezbollah’s fight with Israel, viewed widely here as a battle between the militia’s David and the Jewish state’s Goliath, has solidified support for the militant group and left US credibility, already at an all-time low, in tatters. The conflict has highlighted how far apart the United States and the majority of Arabs stand on the most visceral conflict in the Middle East.

Arabs see the US refusal to press Israel, its ally, for a cease-fire as a clear bias toward the Jewish state and against Arabs. They also believe that US delivery of weapons to Israel makes the United States complicit in the deaths of civilians.

“The Palestinian government was kidnapped and jailed, Palestinians were being starved by Israel, and the US did not object,” said Fatani, 42, a mother of four. “But when Hezbollah captures soldiers to release prisoners, and Lebanon is attacked by Israel, instead of telling it to stop, the US rushes bombs and missiles so it can kill more Palestinians and Lebanese.”

The United States has blamed Hezbollah for provoking Israel, and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has said any peace plan should deal with the underlying problems causing violence in the region, a reference to Iranian and Syrian support for Hezbollah, an armed group potentially stronger than the Lebanese army.

But many Arabs say they think the United States has the equation backwards, that it is Israel’s occupation of Palestinian and Lebanese land, with US support, that fuels the conflict.

The United States’ Arab allies — Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt — initially blamed Hezbollah for the violence, calling its seizure of the soldiers miscalculated adventures. But a high civilian death toll, widespread destruction in Lebanon and strong popular support for Hezbollah have forced a shift in their stance.

Egypt, one of a few Arab states with relations with Israel, said it was trying to resolve the crisis through contacts with the Jewish state, according to the Akhbar al-Yawm newspaper in Egypt. Saudi Arabia dispatched its top diplomats to Washington to press for a cease-fire, and when that failed, issued a strongly worded statement warning of the possibility of a wider regional conflict if Israel refused to exchange Arab land for peace and relations with Arab states.

Hezbollah, emerging as the new champion of the Palestinians, has managed, for the most part, to close sectarian ranks and win the support of Sunni majorities in most Arab countries.

Several Wahabi clerics in Saudi Arabia, however, have refused to support Hezbollah’s fight against Israel. They believe Shias are not proper Muslims.

The Website of a popular preacher, Nasser al-Omar, tells followers that contrary to Hezbollah’s claims, it is not fighting on behalf of Sunni Muslims in Palestine and is instead a tool in Iran’s hands.

But prominent and popular clerics in Egypt and Saudi Arabia have defended the militia, saying this was a time to remain united and bury sectarian animosities.

Arabs for the most part have celebrated Hezbollah’s attacks in Israel. “I was so happy,” Fatani, sitting at home in jeans watching Al-Jazeera, recalled feeling when she heard about Hezbollah strikes against Israel. “It was the first time in 50 years that Israelis feel what Palestinians and Lebanese have been going through.”

When Al-Jazeera announced a new Hezbollah strike on an Israeli chemical plant, she looked toward the sky and said, “God be praised,” then got down on the floor, her forehead to the carpet, and recited a short prayer of thanks. In demonstrations in Egypt, people carried posters of Hezbollah leader Hasan Nasrallah and the late Egyptian president Gamal Abdal Nasser, seen as the father of Arab nationalism.

Sabri, the Saudi student, said he wished he could demonstrate to express his anger at events or volunteer to fight in Lebanon, but that it was not allowed by the government.

So instead Sabri, who wears his long hair in a ponytail under a cream-and-orange turban, prays for Hezbollah’s victory and shows his support by driving around with a picture of Nasrallah taped on the back of his red and white Mini Cooper. If the authorities ask him to remove the picture, he said, he would replace it with a sign that reads, “God bless those who engage in miscalculated adventures.”—Dawn/Los Angeles Times News Service


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: allies; allyisrael; israel; lebanon; proisrael
1 Kings 18:"21": And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

Allah of the Koran is not the God of the bible. You can check it out yourself. The God of the bible tells of his laws and what it right and wrong for us.

The god of the Koran, has his own set of rules and they differ from the God of the bible. They can not be the same.

1 posted on 07/31/2006 1:33:43 PM PDT by tessalu
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To: tessalu
You need to put a barf alert on the story.

I'd say the Jews were the David while the Goliath were the muslims of the world.
2 posted on 07/31/2006 1:38:05 PM PDT by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: tessalu

Wrong! it's the Jewish David against the Satanic Muslim
Goliath.


3 posted on 07/31/2006 1:38:29 PM PDT by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: tessalu

The US stands against terrorism. How can aiding Israel in it's war against terrorists be considered a blow to our credibility?


4 posted on 07/31/2006 1:38:37 PM PDT by My2Cents (A pirate's life for me.)
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To: tessalu
" Ever since the seizure of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah sparked an Israeli offensive in Lebanon..."

Offensive?????????? Hezbollah struck first. Israel struck second. Hezbollah struck offensively. Israel struck defensively!

5 posted on 07/31/2006 1:40:18 PM PDT by avacado
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To: tessalu

Can countries have such things as credibility?


6 posted on 07/31/2006 1:41:00 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: tessalu
Arabs see the US refusal to press Israel, its ally, for a cease-fire as a clear bias toward the Jewish state and against Arabs. They also believe that US delivery of weapons to Israel makes the United States complicit in the deaths of civilians

But many Arabs say they think the United States has the equation backwards, that it is Israel’s occupation of Palestinian and Lebanese land, with US support, that fuels the conflict.

Hezbollah, emerging as the new champion of the Palestinians, has managed, for the most part, to close sectarian ranks and win the support of Sunni majorities in most Arab countries.

Arabs for the most part have celebrated Hezbollah’s attacks in Israel. “I was so happy,” Fatani, sitting at home in jeans watching Al-Jazeera, recalled feeling when she heard about Hezbollah strikes against Israel. “It was the first time in 50 years that Israelis feel what Palestinians and Lebanese have been going through.”

so what do we have here? where is the call for free and democratic arabia? where are the calls for freeing the Lebanese from the death grip of Hezbo, Assad and the Iranian mullahs? we have not yet seen based upon these statements an acceptance of the history of the last 50 years. add to that the Iraqi statements of earlier today castigating Israel and we have a complete picture of faded visions of the arabian greatness and islamic hegemony from days of yore.

7 posted on 07/31/2006 1:42:19 PM PDT by APRPEH (You and I have a rendezvous with destiny.)
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To: My2Cents

I have searched for news from all around the world for all kinds of opinions. It is up to each one of us individually to sort out the truth, and I do try to look at it all.


8 posted on 07/31/2006 1:42:37 PM PDT by tessalu
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To: avacado

Even 6-year olds figured this out on the playground in very short order--pick on someone bigger than you, and get the immortal crap kicked out of you.

These morons will never learn.


9 posted on 07/31/2006 1:43:10 PM PDT by CheyennePress
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To: tessalu

Just a pig in a poke here, but I'm guessing Faiza Saleh Ambah did not give the US much "credibility" long ago.


10 posted on 07/31/2006 1:43:13 PM PDT by pissant
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To: tessalu
"Ever since the seizure of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah sparked an Israeli offensive in Lebanon,"

First if you are trying to say something do not LIE as you have done. It should read as follows:

"Ever since the coordinated attack on Israel by the terrorist in the south and north which resulted in the killing of 7 to 10 Israeli soldiers and the taking as hostages of three others the government of Israel has been conducting operations to free its soldiers and defeat the terrorist enemies of the people of the world.
11 posted on 07/31/2006 1:43:31 PM PDT by YOUGOTIT
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To: tessalu

The article is BS!

Israel is one of our few friends in the world. Stabbing them in the back will not make socialists and jihadists like us -- if anything, it will encourage their destructive impulses.

The problem with Islam is not the Koran per se. Their civilization didn't develop in the same fashion as the west.

Religion generally is a static process demanding unquestioning submission, while politics is a process offering participation, discussion, and lawmaking founded in consent.

Christian civilization got around this contradiction with the separation of Church and State. Christianity grew up alongside the Roman government. Jesus taught that one should "render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's." Augustine developed this idea in the City of God, and St. Gregory implemented the Pastoral Rule in the 5th century, imposing the duty of civil obedience upon the clergy. The idea persisted in medieval times with the distinction between regnum and sacerdotium.

Islam doesn't have this tradition. They grew up by plundering, raping, and killing the infidel. Sovereignty for them rests with Allah and his Prophet (pigs be upon him), and legal order for them is founded in divine command. Unlike the West, there is no entity called "the Mosque." Like the Leninists, Islam seeks to control the state without being a subject to the state.


12 posted on 07/31/2006 1:44:11 PM PDT by JHBowden (A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. -- David Hume)
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To: PeteB570

About a year ago I saw a map on this site that really drove the point of how small Israel really is home.

It showed a map of the region with a quote box coming from the tiny speck that was Israel and the quote box said something like "Israel is a travesty against God and it cannot be allowed to stand" (that may not even be close).

I wish I had save it. It really would fit this thread.


13 posted on 07/31/2006 1:47:07 PM PDT by Personal Responsibility (Amnesia is a train of thought.)
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To: avacado

I've noticed a pattern....Most Arab/Muslims who make pronoucements in the court of world opinion are liars.


14 posted on 07/31/2006 1:47:16 PM PDT by My2Cents (A pirate's life for me.)
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To: tessalu
“The Palestinian government was kidnapped and jailed, Palestinians were being starved by Israel, and the US did not object,”


Stupid reporters didn't have to globe trot to find sentiments like that. Portlandistan is full of idiots spouting that nonsense(in fact, a lot of the statements made at yesterdays pro-terrorist rally were very similar to some in this article). Go figure!!
15 posted on 07/31/2006 1:50:08 PM PDT by crazyhorse691 (Diplomacy doesn't work when seagulls rain on your parade. A shotgun and umbrella does.)
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To: tessalu

Too bad we can't give covert aid like Iran.


16 posted on 07/31/2006 2:01:31 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: tessalu

A troubling article. If the "moderate" muslims are siding with terrorist organizations, then what many pundits have opined is truly coming to pass; a culture/religious war between Christianity/Judaism and Islam.

Given that the Palestinians aren't Arab, the support of muslims for the Palestinians is suspect. The Palestinians are muslim pawns. A handy reason for muslim anti-Semitism and hatred of the US.


17 posted on 07/31/2006 2:27:13 PM PDT by MarcusAurelious (Guns don't kill people. Delta Force kills people.)
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To: avacado

In military parlance, an offensive is conducted whenever a military force ventures forth from its base of operations to conduct operations. Israel has done this, and has done this well.

Hez/Hizbollah struck first, and Israel struck second, but it is correct to classify what Israel is doing as an offensive.

Whatever they are doing, it is better to be on the BACK of the Israeli attack, and not in front! ;)


18 posted on 07/31/2006 2:31:02 PM PDT by MarcusAurelious (Guns don't kill people. Delta Force kills people.)
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To: MarcusAurelious

What are the palis if not arabs?


19 posted on 07/31/2006 2:34:43 PM PDT by ichabod1 (I have to take a shower.)
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To: tessalu
I certainly don't need an insane Pakistani Muslim asshole questioning the credibility of America, because we aid Israel in defeating murderous overreaching freaking Islamists...

In my world -- Pakistan remains on the ultimate TARGET list...and is only a temporary halfassed untrustworthy ally...
Islamists can never be a trusted friend to a non Muslim --- never... The Koran specifically forbids that.


Semper Fi
20 posted on 07/31/2006 2:37:23 PM PDT by river rat (You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: tessalu
US credibility harmed by aid to Israel

Only in the eyes of terrorists and their appeasers. They shouldn't matter anyhow.

21 posted on 07/31/2006 2:39:15 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: MarcusAurelious

????


22 posted on 07/31/2006 2:40:46 PM PDT by txhurl
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To: tessalu

Death to terrorist supporters.


23 posted on 07/31/2006 3:10:08 PM PDT by TigersEye (Surrender to Islam. Vote Democrat.)
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To: MarcusAurelious
A troubling article. If the "moderate" muslims are siding with terrorist organizations, then what many pundits have opined is truly coming to pass; a culture/religious war between Christianity/Judaism and Islam.

Rip VanWinkle bump

24 posted on 07/31/2006 3:12:20 PM PDT by TigersEye (Surrender to Islam. Vote Democrat.)
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To: avacado
" Ever since the seizure of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah sparked an Israeli offensive in Lebanon..."

Don't be "seizing" Israeli soldiers if you want to be left alone.

25 posted on 07/31/2006 3:17:40 PM PDT by oldbrowser (Good news is no news.)
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To: ichabod1

"Many authorities have addressed the misconceptions surrounding the word Palestine. The name derived from "other migrants from the northwest, the Philistines. Though the latest arrivals, and though they only exercised control over the whole country for a few uncertain decades, they had been the cause of its name of Palestine. These Philistines were an Aegean people, driven out of Greece and Aegean islands around about 1300 B.C.E. They moved southward along the Asiatic coast and in about 1200 attempted to invade Egypt. Turned back, they settled in the maritime plain of southern 'Palestine', where they founded a series of city-states." (James Parkes, Whose Land? (Middlesex, England: Penguin Books, 1970), p. 17.)

They were the Phillistines of biblical times. They were wanderers. I have even read Arab essays that refute their Arab origins.


26 posted on 07/31/2006 3:44:32 PM PDT by MarcusAurelious (Guns don't kill people. Delta Force kills people.)
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To: ichabod1
What are the palis if not arabs?

Funny you should ask...

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism." --- PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein on March 31, 1977

27 posted on 07/31/2006 3:46:03 PM PDT by Publius6961 (overwhelming force behaving underwhelmingly is a waste.)
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To: txflake

I just posted a source previously.

The Palestinians are an Aegean people who migrated South.

Many interesting articles can be read at: http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~peters/


28 posted on 07/31/2006 3:47:43 PM PDT by MarcusAurelious (Guns don't kill people. Delta Force kills people.)
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To: TigersEye

A more accurate statement might be: The culture/religious war between Christianity/Judaism and Islam is flaring up again.


29 posted on 07/31/2006 3:50:28 PM PDT by MarcusAurelious (Guns don't kill people. Delta Force kills people.)
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To: oldbrowser

"Ever since the seizure of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah sparked an Israeli offensive in Lebanon..."

----
Don't be "seizing" Israeli soldiers if you want to be left alone.
----

Exactly! And notice how they only mention two soldiers? They also fired rockets into Israel and killed soldiers when they caputed those two soldiers. How nice that they leave that out.





30 posted on 07/31/2006 3:57:32 PM PDT by avacado
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To: tessalu
It's clear to me who has credibility. It is NOT the side that hides among civilians and fires on an enemy, forcing one side to ignore the attack and suffer growing casualties or to fire back and risk taking out innocent civilians along with the attackers.
The deaths of Lebanese civilians falls squarely on the backs of Hezboallah, cowardly little men driven by Jewish hatred and NOT by the land Israel possesses. Cowards that hide among civilians, Cowards that wear civilian clothing, cowards that posses not one admirable trait. Remember the Jenin "massacre"? The massacre that never happened. These animals hate Israel more than they love their own.
Jew hatred causes fools to write articles claiming Israel, (Population a bit over 6 million), is a "goliath" fighting a "david" this "david" is all of the ME, possessing 100s of millions of humans that hate Israel and lust for its destruction. Who's the David again?
Muslims still put the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" online and claim it's the truth, even though it's been thoroughly discredited many many times. I take it with a grain of salt when I hear the claims of muslims.I hope the innocent civilians in Lebanon stay safe, look to Hezboallah as far as that goes, not to Israel, Hezboallah are putting their lives in jeopardy
31 posted on 07/31/2006 4:10:10 PM PDT by MadLibDisease
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To: MarcusAurelious

"A troubling article. If the "moderate" muslims are siding with terrorist organizations, then what many pundits have opined is truly coming to pass; a culture/religious war between Christianity/Judaism and Islam."

I think you should just admit this is the case and skip to the end of the movie - I did years ago. Eventually there has to be mass warfare, and the Christians have to convert what is left. Now, whether this happens in one year, or a hundred, is an entirely different question, but Western Civilization and expansionist Islamo-Facism are incompatible, even more so than capitalism vs communism (this time it is a religious war).


32 posted on 07/31/2006 4:51:18 PM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: PeteB570
You bring up a fine point regarding this quote.

Hezbollah’s fight with Israel, viewed widely here as a battle between the militia’s David and the Jewish state’s Goliath."

Pakistan is 97% Muslim and I doubt they read the Old Testament.

Israel is a very tiny part of the whole region only consisting of about 6.2 million people. Their enemies are several countries that are not only 10-20 times as large, but also 10-20 times more populated.

33 posted on 07/31/2006 8:28:18 PM PDT by perfect stranger (I need new glasses)
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To: Publius6961

That's my point. They're sure as heck not palestinians, so what are they? A creole mix?


34 posted on 08/01/2006 5:30:10 AM PDT by ichabod1 (I have to take a shower.)
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To: MarcusAurelious

Seems to me that Islam wants to include everybody. But then that's traditional too.


35 posted on 08/03/2006 2:06:08 PM PDT by TigersEye (Surrender to Islam. Vote Democrat.)
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