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In Land of Jesus, Christians Struggle [And blame the USA]
Newhouse News ^ | 8/1/2006 | Steve Chambers

Posted on 08/01/2006 12:07:13 PM PDT by Incorrigible

Nakla Qaber prepares a grill outside his Bethlehem-area restaurant. (Photo by Andrew Mills)

In Land of Jesus, Christians Struggle

BY STEVE CHAMBERS

BETHLEHEM, West Bank -- Nakla Qaber, whose Greek Orthodox roots stretch back generations in a Christian enclave on the West Bank, runs a successful restaurant at a time when most Palestinians are struggling.

But when it came time for his son and three daughters to make their own way in the world, they went off to college in the United States and Canada and never came back.

"Every time I go to services, I look around and see the number of worshippers declining, Sunday after Sunday," said Qaber, 63, who lives in Beit Jala, alongside the major Christian city of Bethlehem. "No one wants to leave his country, so this is a miserable thing, but if my sons and daughters stay overseas, someday I will follow them."


The exodus of Christians from the Holy Land troubles the faithful worldwide. With tensions rising in the past five years and economic conditions worsening, some have begun to whisper about a day when the native Christian population disappears entirely.

Now, with yet another war raging between Muslims and Jews, Christians once again find themselves caught in the crossfire. The vast majority are Palestinian Arabs living in the West Bank, who suffer the same frustrations and dangers as their Muslim neighbors.

Many of them blame the United States for failing to bring peace and stability to the region -- thereby allowing a rise in religious fundamentalism that has increased tensions for the descendants of the first Christians.

"Radical Islam does not even like moderate Muslims, so how can it be good for Christians?" said Jack Khazmo, a Syrian Orthodox Christian who edits a pro-Palestinian political magazine called al Bayader Assiyasi. "We Christians belong to this land and to our country, but the rise of radicalism will affect our presence."

Experts say the Christian population in Israel and the Palestinian territories has fallen steeply in recent years and may number only about 50,000. Since 1948, when Christians were estimated at 20 percent of all Palestinians in the region, their numbers have dropped to roughly 2 percent, according to the Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation, a group based in Bethesda, Md.

"There is a concern about losing the Christian presence in the Holy Land," said Antonios Kireopoulos, associate general secretary for International Affairs and Peace for the National Council of Churches. "We do not want only to be the caretakers of monuments. But we realize that the tensions and ongoing violence are real."

Local Christian leaders argue it would be disastrous if the native Christian population disappeared -- not just for a people so rooted in the land that they are often referred to as "the living stones," but also for regional stability. Wealthier, better educated and more closely tied to the West than most Palestinian Arabs, these Christians have long been a moderating force in the West Bank.

Still, members of the 15 denominations of Palestinian Christians often complain they feel invisible, even if they are part of much larger churches in the United States and Europe. Conservative Christians in America tend to support Israel, and many pilgrims visit holy sites in Jerusalem without realizing a native Christian population remains.

Even as they struggle, many Christians in the West Bank strive for influence within the Palestinian Authority. A Christian holds one Cabinet post in the Hamas-led government, seven are members of Parliament and others lead cities like Bethlehem and neighboring Beit Jala, which together comprise a historic Christian enclave.

George Sa'adeh, deputy mayor of Bethlehem, said that despite occasional tensions between Christians and Muslims, the groups are generally united in calling for more freedom of movement for Palestinians and a reduction in tensions with the Israelis.

"All the people want peace, even Hamas," he said. "The people are frustrated. We must stop the killing, and I believe the United States has the power to make peace if it wants to make peace."

Peace and war are not abstract concepts for Sa'adeh, a Greek Orthodox Christian. One day in March 2003, when he was out shopping with his wife and two daughters, Israeli soldiers mistook his car for one carrying two fugitive terrorists.

They riddled it with machine-gun fire, wounding him and his 15-year-old daughter and killing his 12-year-old daughter, Christine.

Sitting in his office overlooking the Basilica of the Nativity, built 17 centuries ago on the site where tradition says Christ was born, Sa'adeh took out a wallet photograph of a smiling Christine and recalled how an Israeli group of bereaved families reached out to comfort him.

"Talking about peace and ending the war takes a lot of faith and courage," he said. "As Jesus taught us, we must forgive. But when I call for peace, I also call for justice and an end to the (Israeli) occupation."

Sa'adeh and other Christians need a special pass from the Israeli government to leave the West Bank and visit their churches in Jerusalem. Nisreen Kunkar, who handles public relations for Beit Jala, has been unable to visit the home of her in-laws in Jerusalem, although she has been married for years.

Such obstructions, a number of Christians said, inflame tensions in the West Bank and help persuade many of their religious brethren to emigrate.

Raji Zeidan, mayor of Beit Jala and a Christian, said one of the most confounding and frustrating things that has happened to his one-square-mile city in decades was the recent construction of a barrier separating Israel from Palestinian-controlled territory in the West Bank.

The 20-foot concrete wall, which the Israeli government began building in 2002 to keep out suicide bombers, snakes through the town, isolating stores, separating children from playgrounds and, most important in Zeidan's eyes, denying Christians access to their own land.

"Beit Jala is a small town, mostly Christian, and we own most of the undeveloped land," he said. "That is our only chance to flourish and develop, but now it is under confiscation because of the wall. If you lose all opportunities, what will happen? You will go."

Zeidan and other Christians interviewed downplayed tensions between Christians and Muslims, arguing they have much more in common with each other than with Israeli Jews.

Brothers Khader and Mitri Abu, both Greek Orthodox Christians, and their Muslim friends Ishmael Sorur, Abuzayed Odeh and Abu Iyad have known one another for longer than they can remember.

On a hot, sunny day in Bethlehem last week, the friends sat in an auto body store the Abu brothers own, watching the latest war news on Al-Jazeera.

"We are living together, and to say we are not is Zionist propaganda," said Khader Abu, 38. "We were born together, we went to school together and we live beside one another."

"We share all our life, the good times and bad times," Iyad added. "We congratulate each other on our holidays, attend each other's family weddings and family funerals."

The friends share a hobby of breeding chamois goats, with guidance provided by Odeh, a 51-year-old former quarry owner, on the fine art of producing goats with large, bumpy noses and fine, long coats.

As the militant leader of Hezbollah spoke on TV about a military action that had killed eight Israeli soldiers, the friends agreed that war with the Israelis was once again causing them suffering.

"It is the Israeli pressure that is driving younger Christians out of Palestine," said Mitri, 36. "These pressures and humiliations force us to leave."

Asked whether he was worried that the rise of Hamas would signal trouble for Christians, Mitri scoffed.

"We voted for Hamas because the other party (Fatah) are thieves," he said. "We want change."

But Kunkar, the spokeswoman in Beit Jala, said most voters in her town hadn't supported Hamas and were somewhat nervous about the future.

"I grew up beside Muslims, and our relationship is one of respect," she said. "But we know Hamas is a fundamentalist movement, so there was concern after the election that they might institute religious rules. So far, they have respected us."

Hamas is in an awkward position, she added, because while factions within the party want to moderate their positions in order to govern more effectively, war is strengthening the militant wing. She said the elimination of Western aid to the Palestinian Authority, which followed the Hamas victory in recent parliamentary elections, has increased economic hardships.

"The occupation has caused tensions for everyone here, and bombs don't differentiate between Christians, Muslims or Jews," said Sa'adeh, the deputy mayor in Bethlehem.

"But even though much of my family has moved away, I will never leave. I consider staying my obligation as a Christian."

Aug. 1, 2006

(Steve Chambers is a staff writer for The Star-Ledger of Newark, N.J. He can be contacted at schambers@starledger.com.)

Not for commercial use.  For educational and discussion purposes only.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Israel; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: bethlehemchristians
Sounds like some of the Christians in the West Bank have come down with a dose of the Stockholm syndrome.  Then again, it could just be the reporting. 

I personally know an Orthodox Christian from Ramallah who would echo the sentiments of those quoted in this article.  Though I also know several Coptic Christians from Egypt who would probably argue with them!

 

1 posted on 08/01/2006 12:07:14 PM PDT by Incorrigible
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To: Incorrigible

Thought at first it was a story about the Presbyterian Church.


2 posted on 08/01/2006 12:08:45 PM PDT by jwalburg (It wasn't the Executive that Thomas Jefferson referred to as "the Despotic Branch.")
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To: Incorrigible

What part of being an infidel do the ME Christians not understand.


3 posted on 08/01/2006 12:11:13 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (999-TNS)
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To: jwalburg

"We voted for Hamas because the other party (Fatah) are thieves,"

Yeah, if I had the choice between THIEVES and MURDERING TERRORISTS, I would also.... moron idiots!


4 posted on 08/01/2006 12:13:44 PM PDT by observer5 ("Better violate the rights of a few sometimes, than of all always!!)
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To: Incorrigible
Zeidan and other Christians interviewed downplayed tensions between Christians and Muslims, arguing they have much more in common with each other than with Israeli Jews.

Until they have killed all of the Jews, then guess whose next up on the chopping block, unless one is willing to betray Christ and embrace Satan's favorite pet Allah.

5 posted on 08/01/2006 12:14:12 PM PDT by TheKidster
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To: Incorrigible
"All the people want peace, even Hamas," he said.

As long as all the Jews are exterminated and the rest of the infidels live as third class citizens under allah...

6 posted on 08/01/2006 12:15:38 PM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - They want to die for Islam, and we want to kill them.)
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To: Incorrigible
blame the United States for failing to bring peace

Yeah, we've got some extra peace in the back room, don't we? Just wave the magic wand and make it happen.

7 posted on 08/01/2006 12:16:04 PM PDT by siunevada (If we learn nothing from history, what's the point of having one? - Peggy Hill)
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To: TheKidster

They have been abandoned though, I don't hear much from the American Christian community about helping them out. They are definitely getting the short end of the stick in all this!


8 posted on 08/01/2006 12:16:04 PM PDT by TheKidster
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

High volume. Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel. also

2006israelwar or WOT

..................

9 posted on 08/01/2006 12:18:30 PM PDT by SJackson (The PilgrimsóDoing the jobs Native Americans wouldn't do!)
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To: Incorrigible

I think that the ME Christians have a burden we cannot easily understand. I do not like to see them sympathizing with Hamas, but they are struggling--big time. Some of them are staying even though they could come to the US just so that God can use them as a light in the darkness. I think I'd have periods of questioning, too, in their circumstances. In fact, I've questioned God during my life for a lot less reason than what they are experiencing! They are our brothers and sisters and we should support them. That doesn't mean always agreeing--do we agree always with our brothers and sisters here? But we need to support them in prayer.


10 posted on 08/01/2006 12:18:48 PM PDT by twigs
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To: TheKidster
'Peace' with these Dark Ages savages basically means - Kill All The Jews. They might as well get matching tattoos or something since their agenda hasn't changed in 50 years. But if we could go back 50 years, we would find that nobody gave a damn about these crazy turbin wearing nutballs because the oil hadn't yet become a source of immense wealth and political ability to export their insanity.

Virtually anything which can replace oil is worth doing if we can bankrupt these countries and remove the only thing which makes them relevant in any way. We can start by using our own oil and forcing any Dems or RINOs who don't allow drilling here to spend a few months in Gaza to see why we shouldn't be buying oil from the Gulf.

11 posted on 08/01/2006 12:20:20 PM PDT by bpjam (Remember our fallen Marines from Beirut. Hezbollah deserves no peace.)
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To: Incorrigible
Many of them blame the United States for failing to bring peace and stability to the region

Lot's of direct quotes in the article and only one comes even close to this bold statement.

12 posted on 08/01/2006 12:26:34 PM PDT by PajamaTruthMafia
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To: Incorrigible
Lessee. These Christian Einsteins vote in Hamas, knowing Hamas stands for one thing, a war to obliterate Israel. Hamas starts a war with Israel, despite Israel's withdrawal from Gaza and intention to withdraw from the West Bank. Whose fault is the war? The idiots who voted in Hamas? Of course not, it's Bush's fault.

So what do the Einsteins' children do about this? Why, immigrate to America, of course, the land Bush governs.

I guess this makes sense to someone.

13 posted on 08/01/2006 12:28:41 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Incorrigible

They may be Christians but they are also Arabs, steeped in Jew hatred.


14 posted on 08/01/2006 12:31:33 PM PDT by lady lawyer
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To: TheKidster
>>>>>They have been abandoned though, I don't hear much from the American Christian community about helping them out. They are definitely getting the short end of the stick in all this!

Yes, they are. You are exactly right.

15 posted on 08/01/2006 12:32:23 PM PDT by Thorin ("I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.")
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To: TheKidster
"All the people want peace, even Hamas," he said."

People that stupid deserve Darwin Awards, not sympathy.

16 posted on 08/01/2006 12:37:13 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: observer5
"Yeah, if I had the choice between THIEVES and MURDERING TERRORISTS, I would also."

In his mind you did the exact same thing. Instead of voting for the thieves (Democrats), you voted for the murdering terrorists (Republicans).

17 posted on 08/01/2006 12:39:22 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: Incorrigible

I have read other articles about the Palestinian Christians siding with the Muslims. It probably is Stockholm Syndrome.


18 posted on 08/01/2006 1:04:26 PM PDT by PghBaldy (The Unabomber & Eric Rudolph were lone individuals who committed terrorist acts)
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To: PghBaldy

Well, they're the ones that live there, maybe naming the source of their trouble as they see it. But it is sure a lot safer to criticize Israel than it is to criticize Hamas, or Islam, or Jihadism.

Mrs VS


19 posted on 08/01/2006 2:09:21 PM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: PghBaldy

A Wall Street Journal article this week mentioned that when Moslem terrorists in Iraq find out about Iraqis living in the US they hold their Iraqi relatives for ransom and threaten to kill them unless they come up with tens of thousands. And otherwise it's torture.


20 posted on 08/01/2006 2:14:00 PM PDT by jwalburg (It wasn't the Executive that Thomas Jefferson referred to as "the Despotic Branch.")
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To: Incorrigible
Sounds like some of the Christians in the West Bank have come down
with a dose of the Stockholm syndrome.


Sure seems that way.
I remember hearing Hugh Hewitt do a radio interview with a president of
a Bible College in (I think) Jerusalem.
Hewitt (and plenty of the listeners) were shocked to hear this guy
sing the praises of Arafat.
Some more knowledgeable folks have said that this is not that uncommon
amongst the Middle Eastern Christians.
21 posted on 08/01/2006 2:48:47 PM PDT by VOA
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To: Incorrigible
Are some really not clear why the man believes what he does? His theology includes Replacement theology. He believes the land no longer belongs to the Jews but whoever else, someone else, the gentiles, him, but certainly not the Jewish people. He used the word "Occupation". He is coming along side whoever will clear the land of the occupying Jewish people, his bottom line. He sees nothing else I bet.

We should not be surprised at what some will do and say to prove their point and justify their very wrong beliefs. Especially now - Test!!! the Spirit (in an individual) to be certain where they stand in this regards especially.



1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but TRY the spirits whether they are of God: because MANY false prophets are gone out into the world.
22 posted on 08/01/2006 3:03:35 PM PDT by Esther Ruth (Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep. The LORD is thy keeper!)
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To: lady lawyer
They may be Christians but they are also Arabs, steeped in Jew hatred.

Palestinian Christians are the direct descendants of the first Christians who were Jewish and lived there 2000 years ago. They never left and they have more right to the land than anybody else.

It is you who is steeped in hatred of others.

23 posted on 08/01/2006 4:06:53 PM PDT by A. Pole (George Orwell: "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act.")
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To: Esther Ruth
Are some really not clear why the man believes what he does? His theology includes Replacement theology.

Palestinian Christians have Jewish ancestors the same way as Talmudic Jews have.

24 posted on 08/01/2006 4:08:25 PM PDT by A. Pole (George Orwell: "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act.")
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To: colorado tanker

I don't think the people who were voting were thinking about what a Hamas victory would mean politically in Israel. They probably were thinking at a very micro level, i.e. I have to eat, those Fatah people have been stealing aid money for years and letting us starve; let's try the other guys who are now outside the government and therefore yet untouched by corruption. It's a similar feeling to the "throw the bums out" anti-incumbent dynamic that grips our own electorate once in a while.

Putting myself in their shoes, they see Israel making decisions that make sense to Israel, but make it difficult not only for the Hamas people, but for the non-Hamas people too to survive. By Israel not caring what happens to innocent people, those people over time will radicalize.


25 posted on 08/01/2006 4:18:31 PM PDT by winner3000
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To: winner3000
That's the State Department view of the world and I couldn't disagree more. The Arabs must be held to the standards the rest of the world observes.

Elsewhere, when radicals come to government as "reformers" they are expected to conform and govern responsibly. So should Hamas.

No where else in the world would a country be expected to accept the excuse, sorry about the rockets but you can't retaliate or you might radicalize the populace, when the so-called "moderates" voted the people shooting the rockets into power in the first place!

The solution is for the Palis to demand that their government quit making war on Israel by firing rockets, attacking and kidnapping Israeli troops, all on the land of Israel proper. Not to demand Israel not respond to acts of war coming from the Palis.

26 posted on 08/01/2006 5:01:13 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: A. Pole
It is you who is steeped in hatred of others.

Your anti-semitism oozes from every post.

You'd prefer the Jews be driven into the sea, correct?

27 posted on 08/01/2006 5:08:19 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
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To: sinkspur
You'd prefer the Jews be driven into the sea, correct?

No. I want ME Christians to be helped and protected the same way as Israeli Jews are. No more, no less.

28 posted on 08/01/2006 5:09:47 PM PDT by A. Pole (George Orwell: "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act.")
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To: colorado tanker
Your post is so on target, it capsulizes the problem and solution in less than fifty words. I especially like this:

No where else in the world would a country be expected to accept the excuse, sorry about the rockets but you can't retaliate or you might radicalize the populace, when the so-called "moderates" voted the people shooting the rockets into power in the first place!

This is also the excuse the Lebanese government is using to call for a cease-fire.

29 posted on 08/01/2006 5:11:47 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
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To: PghBaldy
I have read other articles about the Palestinian Christians siding with the Muslims. It probably is Stockholm Syndrome.

It's not Stockholm Syndrome, it's the culture. I have Christian friends of Arab descent living here (the family has been here for four generations) who have roots in the Middle East. The disgust with Jews is strong and my friends have nothing to fear from terrorists or retaliation. It's just how it is.

30 posted on 08/01/2006 5:12:50 PM PDT by madison10
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To: A. Pole
I want ME Christians to be helped and protected the same way as Israeli Jews are. No more, no less.

By having Jews stand by and tolerate rockets into their country, killing civilians, and doing nothing when their soldiers are kidnapped?

The Lebanese army, instead of sucking up to the Hezzies, should drive these terrorists out of their cities. They won't, because they have more in common with the Hezzies than the Christians.

31 posted on 08/01/2006 5:14:07 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
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To: sinkspur

Did you say that you are Catholic? Where is your concern for ME Christians?


32 posted on 08/01/2006 5:17:29 PM PDT by A. Pole (George Orwell: "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act.")
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To: sinkspur

Thank you, that's high praise indeed coming from you.


33 posted on 08/01/2006 5:18:49 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: A. Pole
By having Jews stand by and tolerate rockets into their country, killing civilians, and doing nothing when their soldiers are kidnapped?

I asked this question, and you ignored it.

You ignored a similar question about Israelis the other night.

The fact is, you don't give a damn about the Israelis do you?

My concern for the ME Christians is the same as my concern for Israelis being shelled by Hezbollah.

If you stop Hezbollah, everybody's happy.

How many of the ME Christians hate Israelis, just as you do? I suspect many of them. A poll released today stated that 80% of the country of Lebanon supports Hezzbollah. There are ME Christians in that number.

Christians supporting terrorism.

34 posted on 08/01/2006 5:23:22 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
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To: sinkspur
How many of the ME Christians hate Israelis, just as you do?

I told you I don't. But since people tend to judge others by themselves, I wonder if you don't hate ME Christians by any chance?

35 posted on 08/01/2006 5:38:49 PM PDT by A. Pole (George Orwell: "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act.")
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To: A. Pole
By having Jews stand by and tolerate rockets into their country, killing civilians, and doing nothing when their soldiers are kidnapped?

Are you going to answer this question, or can I just assume what your answer would be?

You will not show an ounce of concern for the Israelis, will you?

36 posted on 08/01/2006 5:45:10 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
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To: A. Pole; sinkspur

Well ME christians do pray to allah..That makes them at least questionable in sincerity to jesus.


37 posted on 08/01/2006 5:50:07 PM PDT by newfarm4000n (God Bless Taxpayers)
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To: TheKidster
They have been abandoned though, I don't hear much from the American Christian community about helping them out. They are definitely getting the short end of the stick in all this!

You know Kidster, me thinks you're on something.Come to think of it nether the Pope nor the Orthodox Church Patriarch/Archbishop cared to come to aid the Holy Land and/or the Christians to preserve our Christian Heritage artifacts.
At least I haven't heard any public statement in regards to the plight of Cristian's out of the Holly Land.

38 posted on 08/01/2006 5:51:53 PM PDT by danmar ("The two most common elements in the Universe is hydrogen and stupidity")
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To: sinkspur
By having Jews stand by and tolerate rockets into their country, killing civilians, and doing nothing when their soldiers are kidnapped? Are you going to answer this question, or can I just assume what your answer would be?

Bombing Lebanon after kidnapping of two soldiers was not the right answer. This is the reason for the whole mess. Now I do not know what is the proper solution.

If Sharon did not get sick he would not make such erroneous move.

39 posted on 08/01/2006 5:57:48 PM PDT by A. Pole (George Orwell: "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act.")
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To: newfarm4000n
Well ME christians do pray to allah..That makes them at least questionable in sincerity to jesus.

You write Lord Jesus name using upper case "J", sir.

40 posted on 08/01/2006 5:59:14 PM PDT by A. Pole (George Orwell: "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act.")
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To: A. Pole
You write Lord Jesus name using upper case "J", sir.

Fine be all PC. But for me jesus is also a friend. That something about a personal relationship I'm afraid you shall never understand.
41 posted on 08/01/2006 6:03:10 PM PDT by newfarm4000n (God Bless Taxpayers)
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To: A. Pole
Bombing Lebanon after kidnapping of two soldiers was not the right answer. This is the reason for the whole mess. Now I do not know what is the proper solution.

The Israelis are precision bombing rocket launchers. Lebanese citizens hide these launchers in their homes.

The Israelis did not start this incursion because of the kidnapping of two soldiers. This is the culmination of five years of rockets being launched into northern Israel by Hezbollah, killing Israeli citizens.

They had had enough.

You don't know the solution but you know bombing is not it. How do you know, if you have no other solution?

If your neighbor was shooting at your home, every night, at some point you'd want to stop the shooting, so you or some member of your family is not killed.

You'd call the cops. Well, the stinking UN is the "cops" here, which means there are no cops.

The fact is, Hezzbollah has to be stopped, and Israel is the only military in the region that can do it. And they are doing it. And they must be allowed to do it.

Obviously Lebanon can't do it, or won't do it.

42 posted on 08/01/2006 6:06:34 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
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To: madison10

Sad to hear.


43 posted on 08/01/2006 6:30:06 PM PDT by PghBaldy (The Unabomber & Eric Rudolph were lone individuals who committed terrorist acts)
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To: Incorrigible
Muslim Arabs blame US interventionism for DEstabilizing the region --if WE weren't there via our arms, the thinking goes, everything would be just peachy.

Meanwhile:

Christian Arabs indict the US --if America intervened MORE, everything would be peachy. The US is strong, but instead sits on her hands, and these people say that's bad.

Stalwart Zionists say US diplomats reign Israel in, keeping her from doing what everyone knows has to get done...

Hollywood Jews say the US is a rich Fourth Reich that provides bombs against used against a passionate, ancient people who just need to be listened to and understood.

Hey, my head hurts...

44 posted on 08/01/2006 6:55:09 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: newfarm4000n
But for me jesus is also a friend. That something about a personal relationship I'm afraid you shall never understand.

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." (Prov:9:10)

45 posted on 08/01/2006 7:06:00 PM PDT by A. Pole (George Orwell: "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act.")
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To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...


46 posted on 08/01/2006 8:49:43 PM PDT by Coleus ("God hates moderates, Revelation 3:15-16")
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To: Incorrigible

I, for one, am SHOCKED that so many Christians would rather live in a first world country as full citizens rather than a third world anarchcracy as dhimmis.


47 posted on 08/02/2006 12:05:27 AM PDT by Democratshavenobrains
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To: colorado tanker

I was not trying to defend Hamas or suggesting that they should be held to a lower standard. I was explaining their rise to power and what were the circumstances that created them. When you see the same thing happening in Lebanon with Hezbollah, I hope you don't think it's a coincidence.

The bottom line is that if the government does not take care of people it's responsible for, the people will turn to whoever they perceive as helping them. Then any radical group or country can buy their loyalty on the cheap. The Israeli and Lebanese governments washed their hands off certain people (the Palestinians and the Lebanese Shiaa respectively). They are reaping the rewards.


48 posted on 08/02/2006 5:38:43 AM PDT by winner3000
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To: Incorrigible
The Christians in the M.E. are in between a rock and a hard place when it comes to Israel. Israel, in the past, did not take a lot of time to figure out who was an Arab Christian and who was a muslim. To many faked being Christians to get into Israel and cause havoc, so they treated them all the same.

The Arab Christians know that if they support Israel, they are dead. They also know that "After the Saturday people, we will go after the Sunday people." I know a few expats from Palestine and Israel, and they don't really like either side that much. But it is much safer to criticize Israel.
49 posted on 08/03/2006 11:46:44 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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