Posted on 08/04/2006 10:37:56 AM PDT by jamese777
Shiites march in Baghdad for pro-Hezbollah rally The Associated Press
Published: August 4, 2006
BAGHDAD, Iraq Hundreds of thousands of Shiites chanting "Death to Israel" and "Death to America" marched through the streets of Baghdad's biggest Shiite district Friday in a massive show of support for Hezbollah in its battle against Israel.
The demonstration was the biggest in the Middle East in support of Hezbollah since Israel launched its attacks against the guerrillas in Lebanon on July 12. The protest was organized by radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, whose political movement built around the Mahdi Army militia has been modeled after Hezbollah.
Demonstrators, wearing white shrouds symbolizing willingness to die for Hezbollah, waved the guerrillas' yellow banner and chanted slogans in support of their leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, which has attained a cult status in the Arab world for its defiance of Israeli military power.
"Allah, Allah, give victory to Hassan Nasrallah," the crowd chanted.
"Mahdi Army and Hezbollah are one, let them confront us if they dare," the predominantly male crowd shouted, waving the flags of Hezbollah, Lebanon and Iraq. Many walked with umbrellas in the searing afternoon sun. Volunteers sprayed them with water.
(Excerpt) Read more at iht.com ...
Why weren't we bombing them? Oh, right. These are the supposed "innocent civilians" who have done nothing but chant for our deaths for 25+ years.
I propose a new rule. If you chant for the death of your enemies, you lose "innocent civilian status" and should be considered fair game.
"Death to America"
Sounds like a declaration of war to me.
Nothing we do in Iraq is going to change this attitude.
Before the hysterics hijack this thread to say "They all hate us!! We need to withdraw and let those ungrateful bastards kill one another," let us remember this was less than 500,000 people (and probably significantly less--it's not even close to the 1 million the US media is claiming based on the demonstrators calling it a "Million Man March") out of a population of 25 million. That's not even 10% of Iraq's Shiites participating in this. And it's barely 2% of Iraqis. These are followers, probably many from his militia ordered to go, of the radical Al Sadr. This is not representative of all or most Iraqis. Let's remember that and keep some perspective before we get the "Cut and run" crowd on here blathering like fools.
I think that large gatherings of people chanting "Death To America" is sort of like attending an NFL game for these people.
And what was America's response to the bombing of the Marine barracks in 1983?
Nothing, nada, zip, zero!
We have the same attitudes here in the US on the left. You're always going to have contrary opinions among any large population. We need not see that as a threat, especially when you consider less than 5% of Iraq's Shiites even participated in this and out of Iraq's 25 million people this is a tiny percentage of people.
Now - Now: they are our Iraqi Allies who we are fighting and dieing for to give them a better life !!!
The Iranian move of unleashing Hezbollah against Israel, was brilliant. Even if Israel succeeds in putting Hezbollah down in Lebanon, Iran has gained a propaganda windfall in the Muslim world. This is precisely why the US kept Israel out of the fighting in Desert Storm.
Now we see the folly of not dealing with the Hezbollah threat.
The article forget one key point....
Iraqi government television said the *****Defense Ministry had approved the demonstration, a sign of the public anger over Israel's offensive in Lebanon and of al-Sadr's stature as a major player in Iraqi politics*****.
There is formal Iraqi government support for the demonstration. That upsets the whole "tiny minority" argument.
""Cut and run" crowd on here blathering like fools."
No cut and run here. But they do all hate us. And the only thing they understand is power, and use of force. If 500,000 islamonazis chanting "death to America" were to be killed, mid-chant, the islamonazis would be a bit more careful. And the insurgency would slow, in a big way.
islamists are like very vicious dogs. As long as they think you're the alpha dog, everything is fine. Don't ever let them think they are the alpha.
Iraq is 65% shiite. Nothing to do about it except let Saddam go.
Now that would be funny.
I agree. I also read that they were bussing people in from all parts, and I'm guessing some of those people weren't given much choice in the matter.
Hell, here in the US if the left could only get fewer than 500,000 people out to a nationwide call for demonstrators to come shout "death to America, death to Bush" and to trample the American flag, they'd pack up shop and call it quits!
Hundreds of thousands marching sounds like more than a few to me.
Hell, half of them probably came in from Iran.
"We have the same attitudes here in the US on the left."
If there was an equivalent type thing going on here in the US, 2% of the population at a rally... that's 6,000,000. I think that might get noticed.
2% of a countries population demonstrating is huge.
And if not much choice in the matter, they may have been given food or the like. Saddam, like all dictators, could always turn out a crow. Al Sadr is a dictator wanna be. He knows the importance of the images, and he knows they create the illusion of power, just as the NAZIS did.
Not neccessarily. Unlike the days of Saddam regime, the Iraqis now have certain freedom of speech rights. I'm sure the US gov't would approve such a demonstration in the US, and I'm equally sure there would be plenty of DemoRats and Isolationists who would join in!
LOL! Sad, but true.
I didn't say it was a "few." But relative to Iraq's overall Shiite population and much more there general population, this doesn't in any way prove a majority sentiment. It was 2% of Iraq's population, less than 5% of Iraq's Shiite population. And I'd put money that many of them were shipped in from Iraq.
And we don't want to forget that fully 33% of Americans are Democrats, and we don't condemn ourselves, or flee our own country over it.
As they don't have the military capability to directly confront the US, Iran resorts to proxies, i.e. terrorists, and propaganda to weaken the resolve of the West.
That's not the point. The point is this isn't reflective of some general sentiment sweeping Iraq. And if it was, you'd see more than just a few dozen American soldiers dying each month. We'd have 100s dead each moneth.
"He knows the importance of the images, and he knows they create the illusion of power, just as the NAZIS did."
The Nazi's didn't just have the illusion of power, they had the power.
We probably will have at least that many if not more demonstrating here in the United States.
Geeze, they were all out in the open and we didn't take advantage.
That's nice. But their actions are still despicable, and should at the very least put us on notice: winning hearts and minds is going to be difficult, if not impossible. Islamics will stand up for Islamics, if push comes to shove.
That's only how many actually showed up to protest. It does not give us an indication of how many feel this way. Islam is such that Muslims will not abide a foreigner-infidel to conquer land once held by the Caliphate (excepting Spain, and they have never given up the goal of reclaiming that).
Heard that the Minister of Defense encouraged this protesting. Sounds like he needs to be replaced.
Shipped in from Iran I meant.
"I didn't say it was a "few." But relative to Iraq's overall Shiite population and much more there general population, this doesn't in any way prove a majority sentiment. It was 2% of Iraq's population, less than 5% of Iraq's Shiite population. And I'd put money that many of them were shipped in from Iraq."
I think you meant "shipped in from Iran."
But you are forgetting that the Iraqi government gave official sanction to this "half a million Shiite" march. Remember that the government is controlled by the Islamic Dawa Party which is a Shiite religious party founded by Muqtada al-Sadr's father-in-law.
It was Muqtada al-Sadr who called for this anti-American and anti-Israel/pro-Hezbollah protest.
While there may be a hundred or perhaps even a thousand marching in Baghdad chanting "Death to America" I seriously doubt that there were Hundreds of thousands of people chanting "Death to America."
This is just another example of the liberal media conspiring to hurt the American mission of Freedom in Iraq. I look forward to the day when the media reports on hundreds of thousands of Iraqis marching in the streets chanting "Thank You America."
The MSM will never report that.
Moderate Sistani would turn on a nonmuslim in a heartbeat. After all, according to his belief system, we are najis, unclean. Only the ummah counts.
Oh, and by the way, moderate Sistani favors killing gays in the "worst way possible".
Target rich environment.
So with the democracy we brought to Iraq did not also come the ability for people to demonstrate freely even for really eggregiously bad ideas??? And self-determination for Iraq didn't come with the idea the Iraqi government can't sanction a demonstration that despite being participated in by loathsome people nonetheless was peaceful??? Do you REALLY think the Iraqi government can hope to survive keeping Shiites from demonstrating and seeming to be indifferent to what Israel is doing in Lebanon?? I mean, political reality dictates things in Iraq just as much as they do here. I may not like it, but we did say we're setting up a sovereign government. I see nothing threatening in their allowing demonstrators to protest.
And by the way, how much worse would Israel's position be if they were forced to deal with this Hezbollah situation with Saddam still in power? He'd be helping along with Iran and Syria to sustain Hezbollah which makes the current Iraqi government allowing a demonstration seem pretty harmless by comparison.
We're really winning these people over.
CAN sanction I meant. Can't type today.
Iraq is likely lost now.
"That's not the point. The point is this isn't reflective of some general sentiment sweeping Iraq. "
Neither of us are in Iraq. Therefore, this comes down to speculation. It's my feeling that 2% of the population shows a significant trend.
I compare it to letter writing to a company. They speculate for every letter they get, 10 people feel the same way, but didn't bother to write.
For every protester... how many feel the same way but couldn't/wouldn't protest? 5? 6? 10?
Good point. With demonstrations there are always factions and groups within it more radical than others in the crowd. The people in the crowd may well have had differing agendas.
5% of Shiites and 2% of the Iraqi population participated. We have more anti-Americans than that in the US population. Keep some perspective.
BINGO!!!
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