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To: justshutupandtakeit
1. Personally, I far prefer to worship God rather than Hamilton or even Washington. Sorry about you.

2. Jefferson was by far the better man than and also had the interests of all Americans at heart not just the interests of New York commercial manipulators.

3. Burr's marksmanship on the field of honor was a wonderful service to the U.S. whatever his motivations.

4. I'll take Boss Tweed over Averill Harriman anytime. Andrew Jackson over John Quincy Adams. Stephen Douglas (or Bell or Breckenridge or Seward most of all) over Lincoln. Grover Cleveland over Blaine. Chief Justice Tawney over Chief Justice Marshall, the Dred Scott decision notwithstanding. Charles Manson did less damage than Marshall. Jesse James over General Sherman or Kenny Lay or other neo-Federalist criminals.

5. Whose brainstorm was it to federally tax frontier whiskey production rather than New York shipping and to back it up with a federal army suppressing the frontier small business folks?

6. Stalin and Hitler might also be described as "Colossus" but you will forgive me for not wanting them running our country.

7. Burr was also Jonathan Edwards's grandson.

8. It was beautiful that Hamilton was in his grave. You cannot seriously mean that his commercial obsessions amounted to great patriotism, though.

9. Nicholas Biddle's National Bank was a slush fund for corrupt interests to manipulate events, investments and elections. Fortunately it was squashed by Andrew Jackson after a lengthy war against it on behalf of America.

10. As to Chief Justice John Marshall and his remarkable discovery of the non-existent SCOTUS power to overturn legislation as "unconstitutional", it is a great misfortune that Burr did not get an opportunity to apply his marksmanship on the field of honor to miscreant Marshall before Marshall had a chance to do such damage. As Chief Justice, he was the very embodiment of the idea of the dead hand of the discredited Federalist past until he finally croaked. It was not for nothing that the Federalists were extinguished or the Whigs after them. Each of those parties richly deserved extermination and got it.

11. If you dislike "slavers," is it not inconsistent to favor centralized power slavers like Hamilton????

12. I note that the public did not so sympathize with Hamilton as to restore Federalists to even public notice much less power. Consider that the Hartford Convention (motivated by a treasonous desire to restore commerce with England while the US was at war with England) was merely the last gasp of the Federalistas infuriated that their game was up.

53 posted on 08/05/2006 8:55:58 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: BlackElk

Apparently you know no more about Hamilton than the comic book version promoted by the Jeffersonians and other Leftists. Nor do you understand the difference between "worship" and appreciate. BTW Hamilton was one of the founders of the American Bible Society.

On every disputed issue between Jefferson and Hamilton not only was the form wrong but his errors were very damaging to our national development. He was wrong about excessive democracy. He was wrong about the course of future economic development for the Nation. He was a complete hypocrit and actually used the masses to serve the interests of the feudal aristocracy which he was a part of.
He had no understanding of either economics, finance nor our constitution. Jefferson was what we would call today a "limosine liberal" and the party he helped establish is a faithful reflection of his anti-militaristic views.

Burr was a nothing only known for killing a Great American Patriot and one of the greatest political thinkers since Plato. Your ignorant rants can't change that FACT.

You should move to Chicago since you like the corrupt Democrat Machine Boss so well. He is alive and well here ever ready to spout the class warfare swill which you must love to lick up. Nothing points out ignorance and idiocy better than hysterical ravings about geniuses like Hamilton and Marshall and praise for corrupt crooks and secondrate legal minds like Tweed and Tawney.

Congress voted to tax whiskey and most of the revenues came from the large New England distillerys but don't let that interfere with mindless class war bombast.

Jefferson was closer to the socialist tyrants you name than Hamilton. Look at his ravings about preferring the death of every person on earth save two in each country rather than to see the defeat of his beloved Reign of Terror. Stalin merely carried out his preferences.

Burr was a great embarrassment to his forefathers. A libertine, apostate and traitor but that is ok for his delusionary admirers. Hamilton's term was appropriate Burr was a "Cataline". Though you probably believe he was unjustly proscuted by Cicero.

Alexander Hamilton spent his entire adult life fighting to establish a nation strong enough to endure and grow strong. He forswore a great fortune to enter government service and had no commercial interests. Virtually every step he took, every sentence he wrote was devoted to the National Interest not serving a class. Class warriors, such as you, cannot understand such pure devotion. He spent almost the entire war as Washington's chief aide though he wanted a line command himself. He was by nature a military man. Hamilton recognized that the economy of the nation must be a balanced one and that the only way of freeing the US from European domination was to transform the third world economy imposed on it by the British empire. Jefferson's view would have ensured that imposed economy remained in control and led to a weaker country always dependent upon the European market and European imports. This is made clear when looking at the forces arrayed against each other during the Civil War. Just as Jeffersonian political/economic views led TO the Civil War they also ensured the Slavers ultimate defeat.

Jackson's financial folly in destroying the Bank precipitated a decade long depression topped only by the one in the thirties. It was a disaster for the nation which pulled out of it only through Mexican War spending and the discovery of gold in California. But Jackson was not long on sound thinking.

Anyone who studies the history of the US should be clear that Marshall not only did NOT create judicial review but it was not even controversial and was solidly established by the reasoning within the Convention and the Federalist.
In FACT, the Supreme Court reviewed the Carriage Tax for constitutionality years BEFORE Marshall was even appointed.
Hamilton was the successful lawyer for the government's case. Without judicial review there is essentially NO Constitution.

Hamilton was one who acted to create and protect REAL Liberty not the rhetorical kind favored by Jefferson, all talk and no action. Hamilton put his life on line FIGHTING for Liberty not lounging around Paris while the bullets were flying. He spent the funds raised for his college education on uniforms for the militia unit he raised at the beginning of the war. It was so well outfitted and drilled that he caught the attention of Washington being in sharp contrast to the sloppy excuses also called militia. Alexander worked closely with Von Steuben in writing the Manual of Arms used by the US army for the next century or so and drilling the troops at Valley Forge. Von Steuben was also a devoted life long friend. Jefferson about that time was last seen fleeing the British and performed so miserably as Governor of Virginia that he barely escaped impeachment.

Rather than flatter the ignorant mob, like Jefferson did from his parlour sipping fine wines, Hamilton stood up and told the truth -that the mob is always dangerous and cannot be depended upon for justice or correct thinking.

Federalism died with Hamilton. It is interesting that you try and slander him with the Hartford Convention treason since one of the reasons he met his death was precisely because he had foiled a plot between some other Federalists and Burr which was designed at dividing the Nation. Knowing the two-faced Burr as he did (and they had an extensive experience together for 15 years) he knew that if he became governor of NY and linked up with those wanting to split the nation the US would have been doomed. Hence, the General went out of his way to insure he did NOT become governor. That was the final straw for Burr.

Hamilton did not even fire at him during the duel having become convinced that it was wrong to kill in that way. But Burr had no such nobility little wonder Washington believed him to be unreliable and untrustworthy. Few men have had judgment of men as accurate as Washington.


67 posted on 08/07/2006 8:45:03 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
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To: BlackElk; justshutupandtakeit
Your anti-Federalism has broken my heart!

The Federalist Party, and the Whig Party after it, was the direct ancestor of the Grand Old Party, and all of them represented the commercial, capitalist, loose-constructionist, implied powers, protectionist, central bank tradition (ironically, today's loud-mouthed "Hamiltonians," Pat Buchanan and Lyndon LaRouche [mach shemam!] always leave this last element out of their prescription for America, since the "banks" are controlled by You-Know-Who).

I don't worship Washington, Hamilton, Lincoln, or any human being, and I am quite willing to tear up the entire Constitution for Theocracy any day. But as long as we are under the Constitution, let us remember that Hamiltonian loose-constructionism was every bit as legitmate interpretation of that document as was Jefferson's (and today's conservatives') strict constructionism (plus, unlike Jefferson, Hamilton actually helped write it!). I am a rural person myself and have no desire to see the entire population urbanized, and I'm even a critic of capitalism, but Jefferson's America would indeed have been a dependency of Europe and the rest of the world rather than a self-sufficient nation.

Plus let it never be forgotten that it was the New England Federalists, the alleged ancestors of Ted Kennedy, who were alarmed at the prospect of Jacobinism in America. It was New England Federalist preachers who preached against the Illuminati and Jacobins while Jefferson was an utter enlightenment deist and rationalist whose religious beliefs literally frightened people at the time. This is not to argue that Washington and Hamilton were religious guides in any sense of the word (Washington's chr*stianity is vastly overrated), but when it comes to the Founders and the early republic I will pick the Federalists every time over the Jeffersonians.

79 posted on 08/07/2006 9:52:02 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (HaGedolim tzerikhim limshol--`AKHSHAYV!)
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