Hezbollah has American TOW anti-tank missiles...where did they come from?

IDF

[janetjanet998]

These are IDF pictures of the American TOW missiles they found with other hezbollah arms...CNN also mentioned they have found some TOWS

[janetjanet998]

the shelf of a TOW is 20 years or so..so some may have come from Iran-Contra..but the date on the Box says 2001

[thoughtomator]

Bill Clinton.

[Darkwolf377]

Dems will suddenly be interested in this conflict because they can say Bush screwed up somehow and "let" these get into the hands of terrorists.

[U S Army EOD]

They should be able to trace the lot numbers.

[elhombrelibre]

You mean shelf-life of course. Your is a good question. Possibly a FMS sale and then someone stole them and sold them illicitly, or they could have been found or stolen in Iraq. These are pure guesses.

[elhombrelibre]

Yes, do a lot history; the MMC in Kuwait could do it.

[NorCalRepub]

...smuggled out of Afghanistan maybe.....

[MJY1288]

BINGO!

[SteveMcKing]

A shrewd country might copy the design and brand them as ours. That would be nuts.

[Perdogg]

Saudi Arabia maybe. In 1982 (Israel PLO Beirut) a crate of M16s was found, they were still there shipping lube. They came from Saudi.

There is an international weapons market. The date also says 1997. They might have come Bosnia.

[elhombrelibre]

The missile matters, but do they have launchers too?

[pepsionice]

There are probably 25 countries that have bought the TOW over the past 10 years or so. I'm sure the CIA has the serials and can tell you which country purchased it. The interesting story will be how that country explains that this was "stolen" but never reported back to the US. The next question will be how many of these were "stolen". If you consider the cost of each TOW...you have to be picky about when and where you use it, and the guy has to have some kinda training...which would be third question...where he got this training.

I would be prepared for alot of US weapons showing up here...in the arms of Hezballah. The Iranians front them on cash...so they can purchase on the world market and they've probably got several underground bunkers with weapons stored and waiting.

[msnimje]

From the government of Lebanon?

[Skywalk]

THese are clones of American TOWS. I forget who it is that makes them but these are not American-made TOWs (or at least not according to the littlegreenfootballs website.)

[MJY1288]

The date on the container says 2001, my guess would be from a NATO Member Country

[gov_bean_ counter]

FMS sales are supposed be with countries the US has friendly foreign agreements. At best there are only a dozen of so countries that could have procured this type weapon from US. Should be relatively easy to trace.

[MJY1288]

BOSNIA?

[janetjanet998]

but why are the markings in English? if a country like China or Iran copied the design wouldn't the markings be in non-English

[mattdono]

The date also says 1997. They might have come Bosnia

Well, the "Date" said "2000". It was scratched out and "1997" written in.

So, if the original crate had "2000" on it, why would someone scratch through "2000" and write "1997"?

That seems odd. Something doesn't add up.

[NorCalRepub]

yup....could be...though the date on the box is what, just a shipment date .....could have sat somewhere for a year and not used....who knows....as long as we got 'em back

[gov_bean_ counter]

I was reviewing a DOD FMS handbook day before yesterday (first time look). IIRC, the US has friendly foreign nation agreements with only about a dozen countries. What level of agreement with the US is required to procure this type weapon?

[antiunion person]

PING

[twntaipan]

They are probably a gift from the NY Times.

[bnelson44]

Here is the article you were talking about:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=21853&only

[bnelson44]

Article said:

In the sixth, eighth and ninth pictures you can see a 2001 mfg TOW missile. This is a US anti-tank weapon (though made in other countries as well).

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=21853&only

[mountn man]

I saw the article, and that exact thought came to my mind in about 2 seconds.

[LegendHasIt]

Wasn't there a group of 'Louis Farrakhan followers' enlisted in the U.S Army that were breaking into armories and selling the stuff on the black market (no pun intended) a couple of years ago?

If I'm remembering correctly, these COULD be part of that..... The connections would be tenuous, but within the realm of possibility if not a likely probability.

I can think of several other possibilities, none of them being very happy thoughts.

Or maybe they just 'fell off a truck' and no one noticed they were missing until now.

Nonetheless, a very interesting development, one that I hope will be closely investigated and reported.

[gov_bean_ counter]

FWIW.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode10/usc_sup_01_10_10_A_20_IV_30_138.html

[MJY1288]

TOW Missiles are guided by a wire to the intended target, and primarily used for close combat between armored vehicles. My guess is the TOW Missiles is what has been used by the Hezbo's to take out the Israeli Tanks in the past few weeks

[compuguru]

There were a couple of convoys hit during the early days of the Iraq War II (Jessica Lynch and others captured). They were hauling supplies, maybe some got hauled into either Syria or Iran and from there to the Hezzies...

[bnelson44]

UN forces?

[MJY1288]

Thanks

[kitchen]

Check the 7. Who besides Germans use that style?

[Diogenesis]

These might be from the '70s.

The full inventory might result from several proterrorism streams. DNC? Iran? Saudis? Afghanistan?

[GeronL]

The media is going to say Iran-Contra.... and it might even be true.

[elhombrelibre]

Bet you AMCOM can track it.

[NorCalRepub]

...yes..thanks... I know their effective mechanism..let's hope they weren't used against the tanks...I would think this could be easily determined.....but if the Muzzies got a Silkworm missle to hit the Naval vessel....they could have gotten anti tank rounds from China too....I'm not as much an expert to know what others' are out there

[shield]

bttt

[Darkwolf377]

The cases are dated 2001, aren't they?

[LegendHasIt]

Check the 7. Who besides Germans use that style?

We do.

At least, I was trained to make 7s that way when hand printing messages back in Commo School in '71..

[janetjanet998]

any army types out there know if the US army uses the metric system now or still the older US scale for things like weight and temp?

[elhombrelibre]

The dates don't work for Iran Contra.

[bnelson44]

Those are Iranian

[janetjanet998]

is that the same thing(TOW)? the Box looks different

[Darkwolf377]

After scanning the thread I see the dates are reported as 1997, 2000 and 2001, so I don't know about an Iran-Contra connection. More likely swiped in Iraq, or Afghanistan. I have no idea how such things are tracked but I would bet the military has an answer sooner rather than later.

[bnelson44]

No, looks to be laser guided

[bnelson44]

From LGF site:

The second picture looks like a Konkurs laser guided anti tank missile. Both of these Soviet weapons are made in Iran. The latter is a last generation laser guided ATGM which would probably be able to take out a Merkava tank.

[operation clinton cleanup]

Lot numbers and dates are easy to stencil on.... could be someone selling the Iranians/Hezbos DRMO junk... have not heard of any TOWs being fired anywhere recently.

[GeronL]

I didn't see the pics, they were still loading on my putter with dialup

[Frank_2001]

France? (why let weapons get in the way of a perfectly good surrender;)