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Globe Columnist: Shamed by Hiroshima, America Was Awaiting 9/11 Payback
Boston Globe/NewsBusters ^ | Mark Finkelstein

Posted on 08/07/2006 6:22:41 AM PDT by governsleastgovernsbest

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To: governsleastgovernsbest
We could debate this crap for years upon years until the cows come home. To me, it seems to be easily broken down into three sentiments that can be held by people:

--"I hate America and Americans and all that they stand for. These acts in Hiroshima and Nagasazki were war crimes, and the US was so totally cruel and immoral to have done such a thing. And I won't let them ever forget it"

--"So help me, I hate all 'Nips (sic) with everything in my heart for what they did to us. That goes for military and civilian, men, women boys and girls, babies too. The only regret I have is that we did not kill even more. Too bad we could not have incinerated another 100,000, I'd be all for it."

--"I have two minds about this. One is the moral of ending a war, which in fact the bomb did as horrific as an act it was, it did actually bring an almost immediate cessation to the endless bloodletting in the Pacific, of which there certainly would have been more. I also regret the deaths of civilians, particularly women and babies in war. If it could have been finished--and the Japanese War Council more quick to act--with even just one A-bomb on Hiroshima only, that would have been better, but history is history and thank God the war is now over and Japanese troops are in Iraq on the US side. Thank goodness it did not take three of these."

I would say most people subscribe to one of these three fundamental viewpoints.

51 posted on 08/07/2006 7:03:05 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (A few clever bones tossed on gay unions, flag burning & Iraq still don't absolve GWB over BORDERS)
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To: Moose4
So all I have to say is, God bless the Manhattan Project.

Thank you for saying that. My dad worked on the Manhattan Project.

52 posted on 08/07/2006 7:03:58 AM PDT by Fresh Wind (Democrats are guilty of whatever they scream the loudest about.)
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To: governsleastgovernsbest

No, actually, it goes the other way. Because of 9/11, I'm waiting for the USA to do a Hiroshima/Nagasaki type payback. I thought Kabul and Kandahar were good candidates, but since we missed the opportunity, I volunteer Damascus, Tehran and Qom for "demonstration" nuclear strikes.


53 posted on 08/07/2006 7:08:17 AM PDT by Little Ray (If you want to be a martyr, we want to martyr you.)
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To: Hemingway's Ghost
Without question, he is the biggest pussy in New England.

My first thought was that he is a homosexual. Is that the case?

54 posted on 08/07/2006 7:09:35 AM PDT by WashingtonSource (Freedom is not free.)
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To: AmericanInTokyo

I don't fit any of those three.


55 posted on 08/07/2006 7:09:53 AM PDT by MrEdd (More cheep than a flock of baby chickens.)
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To: Fresh Wind

My stepfather-in-law's father (grandstepfather-in-law? sheesh) worked at the Y-12 plant at Oak Ridge, TN for many years. They're justifiably proud of their role down there.

}:-)4


56 posted on 08/07/2006 7:14:38 AM PDT by Moose4 (Dirka dirka Mohammed jihad.)
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To: governsleastgovernsbest
Could Carroll's column be a classic bit of projection of his own Oedipal issues?

He conveniently became a priest in 1962 after completing ROTC?

The energy of the current anti-war movement comes from those losers who dodged service in Vietnam.

In their consciences, they know they were wrong, but they continue to do the cowardly thing by trying to justify their abandonment of resposibility.

I think that politics for the next 20 years will be defined by the intragenerational conflict between those who did their duty and those who renounced their duty.

57 posted on 08/07/2006 7:14:57 AM PDT by HIDEK6
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To: AmericanInTokyo
If it could have been finished--and the Japanese War Council more quick to act--with even just one A-bomb on Hiroshima only, that would have been better, but history is history and thank God the war is now over and Japanese troops are in Iraq on the US side.

If the Japanese had surrendered after only one bombing, I think it would have been possible to wonder if the bombing were truly necessary. But as they chose to go on after the first bomb, had we not used the second, what on earth WOULD have stopped them??

58 posted on 08/07/2006 7:15:05 AM PDT by Dianna
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To: From many - one.
Don't care if he was a democrat, Truman knew what he was doing

Probably the last one who did.... Can you imagine anyone in the Democratic Partry today who would make such a decision?

59 posted on 08/07/2006 7:15:53 AM PDT by Rummyfan
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To: AmericanInTokyo
...eight years of Clinton, steeped in abject lack of national preparation and flavored with American moral decay widely detested around the Islamic world, combined with external subjective global impressions of our incontrovertible weakness (again due to Clinton) which set in wheels the actions of the 19 hijackers and those who issued the orders.
 
Clinton calls terror a U.S. debt to past

60 posted on 08/07/2006 7:16:38 AM PDT by Wolverine (A Concerned Citizen)
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To: Dianna

Like I said, these things could be debated endlessly (and they are, on FR, starting usually 2 or 3 August and until the end of the month, every year, without fail!) :-)


61 posted on 08/07/2006 7:17:23 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (A few clever bones tossed on gay unions, flag burning & Iraq still don't absolve GWB over BORDERS)
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To: RichInOC
"What-what-what?"

Yeah, that was pretty much my reaction as well. I'm beginning to believe that some people actually live in an alternate universe. This Finkelstein character among them.
62 posted on 08/07/2006 7:18:46 AM PDT by LIConFem (It is by will alone I set my mind in motion...)
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To: WashingtonSource
My first thought was that he is a homosexual. Is that the case?

No idea. But his writing is extremely effeminate.

63 posted on 08/07/2006 7:19:53 AM PDT by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: Dianna

I suppose the option would have been either to produce more A-bombs and hit Nagoya, Kobe, Okayama, Osaka, Sendai, whatever, or a full scale ground invasion in September of 1945. As it was, the US military arriving by air and sea in 1945 were confronted with a former enemy, laying down weapons, rather than a current enemy, hitting them with weapons.


64 posted on 08/07/2006 7:20:18 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (A few clever bones tossed on gay unions, flag burning & Iraq still don't absolve GWB over BORDERS)
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To: governsleastgovernsbest

I'm proud of Hiroshima.


65 posted on 08/07/2006 7:20:25 AM PDT by zook ("We all knew someone in primary school who had a really powerful magnet")
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To: governsleastgovernsbest

The left is still POed that Truman dropped the bombs and ended the war before the Soviets could become a full "partner" in the war against Japan. What seems to be forgotten in most stories is that Russia did not declare war on Japan until 8/9/45 and the left was/is always more concerned with Russia than America


66 posted on 08/07/2006 7:21:21 AM PDT by sticker
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To: zook

I get that from lots of people I ask in Taiwan, (and Korea and China for that matter), re: Hiro and Naga :-)


67 posted on 08/07/2006 7:22:06 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (A few clever bones tossed on gay unions, flag burning & Iraq still don't absolve GWB over BORDERS)
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To: dirtboy

Japan serves as an example of what a defeated enemy is worth. An undefeated enemy is still an enemy.


68 posted on 08/07/2006 7:22:37 AM PDT by Loud Mime ("Countdown": A documentary about Keith Olbermann's dwindling IQ.....)
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To: sticker
What seems to be forgotten in most stories is that Russia did not declare war on Japan until 8/9/45 and the left was/is always more concerned with Russia than America.

They got what they wanted (barely). The idea was to have all that Japanese war materiel turned over to the Russians, who would then make it available to Mao, who would in turn use it against the Left's real enemy, Chiang. But the Russians had been burnt by Japan once before in the century, and weren't eager for a repeat performance. Their declaration of war, technical as it was, would never have come against a not-quite-absolutely-defeated Japan.

69 posted on 08/07/2006 7:29:45 AM PDT by thulldud ("Para ingles, oprima el dos.")
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To: From many - one.

Guess which President since 1952 shows Truman's character.


70 posted on 08/07/2006 7:33:06 AM PDT by jschwartz
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To: Rummyfan

It's a perfectly good sentence; the momentum of which he speaks is reflective of the urgency to beat the other war powers to unharnessing the secrets of the atom and the course of the war itself, by the time the bomb was ready, we had seen one major combatant fall leaving only one left to defeat.

To not have dropped it would have created the impression that its existence was fiction.


71 posted on 08/07/2006 7:40:15 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: RichInOC

I suggest every high school student watch the movie called ABOVE AND BEYOND, about what went on behind the scenes of the bombing of Hiroshima. It's incredible that those who have no grasp of history are able to write ridiculous articles like this.


72 posted on 08/07/2006 7:42:04 AM PDT by Hildy (To save us both time, assume I know everything...)
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To: governsleastgovernsbest
No MEGA-BARF Alert!

Shame....Shame

73 posted on 08/07/2006 7:44:34 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: governsleastgovernsbest

Carroll looks like a slimey 'catcher' from the first state to try and legalize gay marriages.


74 posted on 08/07/2006 7:48:02 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: governsleastgovernsbest
Unconsciously ashamed of our own action in using the bomb

What is it with liberals and their need to carry around all this guilt all the time? No wonder they're all moonbats. They've driven themselves insane.

75 posted on 08/07/2006 7:51:25 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: jschwartz

Didn't mean to set off a firesotrm. And Truman was supposed to be anti-semitic. But he know how to run a war.


76 posted on 08/07/2006 8:31:24 AM PDT by From many - one.
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To: dirtboy

Everybody forgets that the Atomic bomb SAVED far more Japanese than were killed because of the ending of the war. Not many people remember that prior to the bomb Tokyo was fire bombed, and more people died in Tokyo (over 100,000) that night than died in Hiroshima or Nakazaki. Had we not dropped the bomb, the Tokyo fire bombing would have repeated itself over every city in Japan, and would probably have caused the near extinction of the Japanese population (the Japanese army was willing to fight to the last Japanese).


77 posted on 08/07/2006 8:34:55 AM PDT by winner3000
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To: governsleastgovernsbest
Jeez, this sounds just like the idiot author of a book I had to read last semester. In Parallax Visions, Bruce Cumings says that the United States was worse than the Nazis and Japanese combined because we used the atomic bomb. He also implies in his updated preface that the evil George W. Bush was behind Sept. 11th.

We had some fun arguments in class over that book.

78 posted on 08/07/2006 8:35:37 AM PDT by COEXERJ145 (Free Republic is Currently Suffering a Pandemic of “Bush Derangement Syndrome.”)
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To: AmericanInTokyo

Anyone with any knowledge or familiarity of the Pacific war is probably going to come to the same conclusion. Hiroshima didn't come out of nowhere.


79 posted on 08/07/2006 8:48:22 AM PDT by zook ("We all knew someone in primary school who had a really powerful magnet")
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To: LIConFem

Please note that 'the Finkelstein character' wrote the column at NewsBusters posted here EXPOSING the Boston Globe column. The Boston Globe column of which you rightly complain was written by Globe columnist James Carroll.

And by the way, Finkelstein = me, governsleastgovernsbest.


80 posted on 08/07/2006 9:27:46 AM PDT by governsleastgovernsbest (Watching the Today Show since 2002 so you don't have to.)
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To: governsleastgovernsbest

You know 60 years ago this would have been called sedition.


81 posted on 08/07/2006 9:29:00 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (Islam is a subsingularity memetic perversion : (http://www.orionsarm.com/topics/perversities.html))
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To: governsleastgovernsbest
Ashamed of Hiroshima/Nagasaki----HELL NO!!!!


82 posted on 08/07/2006 9:33:11 AM PDT by rottndog (WOOF!!!)
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To: winner3000
You know, an aspect I never hear discussed about the A-bombings of Japan--the vast majority of the Japanese killed at Hiroshima/Nagasaki died instantly--Most probably never new what happened to them. Compared to the ravages of warfare, I think this was far more humane than having to kill them through conventional means.
83 posted on 08/07/2006 9:37:47 AM PDT by rottndog (WOOF!!!)
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To: governsleastgovernsbest

Apologies for the mixup!


84 posted on 08/07/2006 9:38:17 AM PDT by LIConFem (It is by will alone I set my mind in motion...)
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To: LIConFem

Thanks. I understand how it can happen - and it happens fairly often - but it's frustrating to be tarred with the very brush I was trying to expose ;-)


85 posted on 08/07/2006 9:43:22 AM PDT by governsleastgovernsbest (Watching the Today Show since 2002 so you don't have to.)
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To: joylyn
"My dad was Army Air Corps, back from overseas at the time but waiting to be sent out again if it hadn't been for Hiroshima and the Japanese surrender."

My dad was a Naval Aviator. PBY (Flying duck-flying patrol boat/plane) Had orders to Okinawa. I hadn't been born yet. Probably alive because of the Hiroshima & Nagasaki raids.
86 posted on 08/07/2006 11:48:21 AM PDT by Pete from Shawnee Mission
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To: governsleastgovernsbest

Carroll gets close to truth, however. Fear of nuke TERROR is the heart of the GWOT. In historical context, it is simply the continuation of the war of civilization with murderous, barbarian chaos that has continued from the time of the first walled cities.

Check out the elaborate fortifications from the year 1000 and after in Europe. Elaborate, expensive defense and justified paranoia have been the signature of our culture since the fall of the Romans.

Nukes make walls useless, and so here we are trying to root out organized, well financed terror funded by proxies. It is amazing that liberals think that barbaric forces can be reasonable; it never worked with Tamerlane or Gengis Khan, who generally slaughtered entire populations wholesale.


87 posted on 08/07/2006 12:07:00 PM PDT by Wiseghy ("You want to break this army? Then break your word to it.")
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To: ClearCase_guy
It seems like rantings from someone who hates western civilization.

I've been pondering over the last few days why Western thought seems to have a leavening of suicidal tendencies mixed in, and whether or not the Romans had the same problem.

I mean, it's plain as the nose on my face that Islamofascism needs to be terminated with extreme prejudice, and I know many people who are blissfully unaware that ANY steps need to be taken in regards to Islam.

88 posted on 08/07/2006 8:08:23 PM PDT by an amused spectator (Bush Runner! The Donkey is after you! Bush Runner! When he catches you, you're through!)
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