Posted on 08/10/2006 4:35:26 AM PDT by twinself
GERMANY is publicly recalling its suffering in the confusion after the Second World War when millions of civilians from Eastern Europe were expelled. As the newly liberated Poles and Czechs sought revenge on their former oppressors, many German women were raped, beaten and robbed; some were nailed to cartwheels. Now the suffering of Germans is being remembered in an exhibition opening in Berlin today.
For Erika Steinbach, the moving spirit behind Forced Paths, it is the first step towards creating a permanent centre in Berlin to commemorate the 12 million Germans deported from Eastern Europe. “We owe it to ourselves,” the Christian Democrat politician said yesterday. “We owe it to history and our collective memory.” However, Angela Merkel’s Government is bracing itself for a fierce response from the nationalist leadership of Poland.
Lech Kaczynski, the Polish President, says that the centre is an attempt to represent Germans as victims. “It will be better for relations between our countries if this centre never comes into existence,” said the President, who with the Prime Minister, his brother Jaroslaw, makes no secret of his distrust of Germany.
Relations between Berlin and Warsaw are difficult. The Polish prosecutor has opened a case against a German newspaper for describing the twins as potatoes. A Catholic newspaper close to the Government has published a list of German correspondents in Poland, urging readers to make their anger known.
Earlier, one Polish magazine cover depicted Frau Steinbach in a black SS uniform straddling the Chancellor then, Gerhard Schröder. The impression, then as now, was that the Association of Deported Germans had become such a powerful lobbyist that it was forcing a rewriting of German history.
The exhibition tries to depict the deportation of Germans as one of many mass ethnic expulsions carried out in the 20th century. But Wolfgang Benz, the director of the Anti-Semitism Research Centre in Berlin, said that any attempt to commemorate the expelled Germans had to make clear “that the deportations were above all the result of Nazi extermination policies”.
I really wouldn't mind every one of those few had his/her own memorial.
Oh, yes, President Kazczynski has been to Germany. At least twice. The last time he enjoyed the soccer game Germany-Poland sitting next to our cheering Chancellor.
And I´ve been to Poland.
Mrs. Steinbach spoke in German TV yesterday. She doesn´t understand the anger, and she pointed out that her organisation (the BdV) has good relations with the families who live now in the formerly German homes. The differences came up with the Eastern Poles who have almost no contacts with modern Germany, and only recall the Nazi era.
Few? Now tell me, who classifies as a victim in YOUR eyes?
In my eyes, there are several categories. In the more restricted category, a victim is someone who got mistreatment up to death without having been engaged in violent actions himself. Children, civilians who weren´t eligible to vote 1933 or didn´t vote NSDAP, come to my mind - no matter whether they were Germans, Poles, Jews, Christians, or whatever. The second category of victims are soldiers, who weren´t supportive for the Nazi or Stalin regime (when we speak of Eastern Europe), partisans, maybe even people who voted NSDAP in 1933 but didn´t want what happened afterwards.
And you say, it´s few people?
She didn´t look old, she was probably a young child in 1945.
She was a daughter of a Luftwaffe soldier born in 1943 in a house near Gdynia (within Polish borders before 09.1939 of course) from which they earlier threw out a Polish family. Does it still classify her as 'the expelled'? No? So what's your point now?
Christians, Communists, Social Democrats, students, military officers - there were tens of thousands who were active in the underground opposition and were killed for that in the KZs. There were more than 40 attempts to assassinate Hitler in Germany, the two most prominent by a civilian (Georg Elser) 1938 in Munich and by a military conspiration (leading: Col. Claus Graf Schenck von Stauffenberg, Gen. Ludwig Beck) 1944 in HQ Wolfsschanze/East Prussia. Both were well planned and failed just by coincidence.
Your definition is more than inclusive and unprecise - it's funny. I only wonder why you didn't include American Indians category, or whatever. :)
She is one of the expelled, yes. She´s one of the 12 million. What´s YOUR point?
I told you, bring a definition on your own! I can´t really take you for serious. Maybe you just hate Germans, but I´m not argueing with you that lots of Germans were Nazi victims. I could even call the families who lost their homes because of allied bombs Nazi victims, if they were against the regime.
Christians? Hitler along with vast majority of Germans was Christian, too. I don't think it classifies them all as victims. Military officers... Spare me. How many of them precisely? What percentage? You're saying thousands, millions maybe... :) My opinion is that if it is really the case I think you should honor these thousands of people first. Cause they badly need some remeberance not only in Germany but also abroad. World doesn't know about them and you simply owe them that.
If Poland invaded Germany and I threw you out of your house would you call my child 'the expelled'?
It's time to take your pills. Byeee...
I know that this probably sounds hippy-esque...but wouldn't the best idea be some joint effort to display the civilian victims of Poland and Germany, or maybe East Europe and Germany, together? A big center where each side gets one wing (the Polish wing would probably have to be bigger) to display the atrocities that were comitted during this war? It doesn't even make sense to display the German victims without having seen the Polish victims before, because they effectively result from the German atrocities. Of course that does not justify anything, but I think something like this would be a big step to a better understanding between Germany and Poland, especially because it would be very hard to use such a joint effort as a political tool for either side.
Why the need to open up this can of worms? Why Poles are singled out, and not the Soviets who forced the borders to change? The Poles would have gladly accepted the pre-war borders, but Stalin gave them no choice in the matter.
Sure - when I come back, conquer Poland and force you to leave your house with your family.
Yours is a good post.
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