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Are you ready for some football?(Florida Judge Blocks Terror Preventing Searches At Football Games)
http://www.mdjonline.com ^ | 8 10 06 | mdjonline

Posted on 08/11/2006 12:14:28 PM PDT by freepatriot32

Isn't it ironic that one of the things our enemies, the Islamofascists, hate about America is the very thing that enables them to operate here?

I'm talking about our openness. Our rights to privacy. The many freedoms granted us by the U.S. Constitution. And the protections and even special treatment afforded Muslim organizations in the U.S.

We're a society like no other.

Take for example last week's decision by Federal District Court Judge James Whittemore of Florida, who ruled in favor of ACLU lawyers last week that pat down searches before football games should be prohibited because they violate fans' Fourth Amendment rights. There is "no substantial, real risk," he opined, of terrorists killing people at football stadiums.

I guess he didn't hear about the University of Oklahoma student who tried to enter Sooner Stadium last fall after wiring himself to the gills with explosives. But most Americans didn't, so what's new?

The suit, originating with a Tampa civics teacher who'd obviously rather see Raymond James Stadium blown to smithereens than subject himself to a five second pat-down, could prompt many venues and the NFL to re-evaluate security policies, a seeming victory for jihadists and ACLU fans everywhere.

Meanwhile, in the Meadowlands in New Jersey, a special area has been set aside where Muslim fans can pray during a game. This came in response to allegations of profiling after some startled Giants fans last September grew alarmed when five Muslim men were observed getting up in the middle of the first quarter, congregating in a sensitive area near the stadium's main food prep area and air intake duct, spreading prayer rugs and doing their thing. The men were outraged at being questioned.

Thankfully, the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority is making sure they'll pray in comfort this season. Who wants to be accused of profiling, especially since there's no threat to stadiums and we're not at war with Muslims (just certain Muslims who we can't identify until they decide to hijack a plane or shoot up a Jewish Federation building).

If I'm sounding a little frustrated, it's because so many Americans seem to be stuck on moot points regarding those who want to attack us. Instead of focusing on immediate concerns, while world events truly leave them and their arguments behind, they're stuck on WMD and Guantanamo detainees.

These deniers rarely have solutions to any threat, and can't see this conflict for what it really is. Hint: It's not Vietnam.

I wish they'd put the mullahs under a microscope, for once, and discuss their vow to activate terror cells here, or the "apocalyptic surprise" they claim to have in store for America on August 22.

It's been five years since the Islamofascists won their last battle on American soil, and most of us still aren't at war.

Maybe the deniers think all we need is a little football, and the enemy will simply go away.

lbarmstrong3378@comcast.net


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Florida; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: aclulist; are; at; blocks; donutwatch; florida; floriduh; football; for; freedom; games; govwatch; judge; libertarians; preventing; privacy; ready; searches; some; terror; terrorwar; waronterror; wot; you
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ok im probably one of the biggest libertarians on freerepublic but even i think this is absurd football stadiums are semi private property like malls not government agencys so the fourth amendment does not apply to private security guards patting down people at football games.even if they use actuall government paid cops to do the pat downs their duty is to serve and PROTECT the public
1 posted on 08/11/2006 12:14:32 PM PDT by freepatriot32
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To: freepatriot32

I'd thumb my nose at the judge and tell the fans, if you don't want to be searched, you ain't getting in.


2 posted on 08/11/2006 12:20:49 PM PDT by b4its2late (Liberals are as confused as a hungry baby in a topless bar.)
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To: freepatriot32

I remember the thread a week or 2 about this ruling. I think the main issue is it is a public stadium that is leased by the team. Therfore public property. I am opposed to the searches.


3 posted on 08/11/2006 12:21:20 PM PDT by beltfed308 (Nanny Statists are Ameba's.)
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To: Abram; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; Allosaurs_r_us; Americanwolf; Americanwolfsbrother; Annie03; ...
Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here
4 posted on 08/11/2006 12:22:20 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: freepatriot32

One big difference is that its hot here. So they are patting down people wearing shorts and a tshirt. It's not Green Bay where people are wearing huge coats.

Pretty hard to hide a belt of explosives when anyone wearing a jacket is already considered suspicious.


5 posted on 08/11/2006 12:22:27 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: freepatriot32

That's okay. Everyone knows that if a terrorist strikes at an NFL game it will be from the Goodyear Blimp and not a fan in seat H347.


6 posted on 08/11/2006 12:24:10 PM PDT by Cagey
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To: freepatriot32

The ruling was actually against the Tampa Sports Authority. As far as I know, pat downs will be allowed at every other stadium but not in Tampa. My "guys" (hubby and son) are going to a football game at Raymond James tonight (first pre-season home game.) Guess they won't be patted down.


7 posted on 08/11/2006 12:24:30 PM PDT by dawn53
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To: freepatriot32

I work for the Philly baseball and football teams. Even the employees are subject to a search before entering the stadium. I'm not a big fan of warrantless searches by the police that can lead to an arrest...at the stadiums, if you have contraband, you are simply refused admission. (Don't know what would happen if, indeed, a bomb of some sort was found). Seems reasonable to me, espeially since the stadiums are privately owned (despit the tax doallars involved in their construction, but that's another argument.)


8 posted on 08/11/2006 12:24:32 PM PDT by Sterm26 (Death before Dhimmitude!)
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To: freepatriot32
Why did we all know, before reading the article, the ACLU would be involved.

Next time a plane is blown up or is flown into a building (and there will be a next time) I sincerely hope there are some ACLU members aboard.
9 posted on 08/11/2006 12:25:46 PM PDT by BW2221
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To: freepatriot32

I guess this "doubting Thomas" judge will change his mind when a few hundered are blown up by a terrorist? Maybe not. But, if that happens, the NFL will suffer more than the airlines. Many need to fly but nobody needs to attend a football game.


10 posted on 08/11/2006 12:26:02 PM PDT by caisson71
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To: driftdiver
Pretty hard to hide a belt of explosives when anyone wearing a jacket is already considered suspicious.

Ah, but will they be allowed to bring in a "sports drink" bottle.

Truth is, I don't think you can bring any beverages into the stadium, but that has nothing to do with preventing terrroism, and everything to do with raising revenue.

11 posted on 08/11/2006 12:26:49 PM PDT by dawn53
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To: freepatriot32

These searches are more designed to boost concession sales by eliminating the food and drink items people can sneak in.


12 posted on 08/11/2006 12:27:10 PM PDT by Niteranger68 (I gigged your peace frog.)
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To: freepatriot32
Punctuation and capitalization are not government dictated, Libertarian. Wondered if you knew that?
13 posted on 08/11/2006 12:28:24 PM PDT by Glenn (Annoy a BushBot...Think for yourself.)
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To: beltfed308

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1674312/posts


14 posted on 08/11/2006 12:29:56 PM PDT by beltfed308 (Nanny Statists are Ameba's.)
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To: RacerF150

For the record, in Philly you are allowed to bring in your own food and (non-alcoholic) drinks in clear wrap and plastic bottles. No glass or cans allowed. I don't blame people for trying to sneak beer into the game, who wants to pay $7.00 for a watered-down Coors Light?


15 posted on 08/11/2006 12:30:19 PM PDT by Sterm26 (Death before Dhimmitude!)
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To: freepatriot32
Ok please explain how you would hide a belt of explosives in this.
And by the way Tampa has their first pre-season game tonight. GO BUCS!!!
The official site is here
16 posted on 08/11/2006 12:33:36 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: dawn53

"Ah, but will they be allowed to bring in a "sports drink" bottle."

The times I've been there you can't take much in. If you are carrying a jacket it is searched. If you have it on they you have to open it for a visual.

And this was before the "pat downs" so IMO this new policy is about insurance premiums and not about safety.


17 posted on 08/11/2006 12:35:30 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: freepatriot32
Another judge falls asleep post 9/11. I wish every one of these judges would have to be the subject of their decisions.

For example, Lets say this judge was forced to sit in a section at a football game in San Francisco on a nice fall day, 60 degrees...not too cold...

In the surrounding 5 sections are 5 muslim males, aged 18-24 wearing winter coats. It is just cool enough that it is reasonable that they may just be cold. Certainly after the fact, a judge could convince himself that was the case.

I wonder if it happened that they were hiding suicide belts and they blew themselves up, or automatic weapons and opened fire on the crowd, and the judge lived through it what his opinion on searches before entering stadiums might be?

Do you think this judge's opinion would change? If that is the case, should it not change beforehand in the interest of safety? Why does it always take being attacked before people think about safety?

18 posted on 08/11/2006 12:36:25 PM PDT by Personal Responsibility (Amnesia is a train of thought.)
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To: freepatriot32

Raymond James Stadium is operated by the Tampa Sports Authority, a government authority with oversight and funding from the Hillsborough County Commission, built with government bonds. It ain't like a mall.


19 posted on 08/11/2006 12:38:38 PM PDT by lugsoul (Livin' in fear is just another way of dying before your time. - Mike Cooley)
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To: freepatriot32
football stadiums are semi private property

Unfortunately, what with public financing of these venues, that is less and less true these days.

I personally don't like living in a world where I am perpetually a suspect. If that's the way we have to be, then the terrorists Islamofacists and other totalitarians have already won. Bravo to the judge who is courageously taking the risk on himself because you can't pat down everybody, all the time, anyway.

20 posted on 08/11/2006 12:40:19 PM PDT by Theophilus (Abortion = Child Sacrifice = Future Sacrifice)
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To: freepatriot32

They have metal detectors at government schools don't they? and court houses?


21 posted on 08/11/2006 12:40:32 PM PDT by GeronL (http://www.mises.org/story/1975 <--no such thing as a fairtax)
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To: All

If I were a terrorist, finding my next targets would be a no brainer.

I would study court rulings, such as these, to determine where are the easiest places for me to smuggle in whatever weapon or bomb I wanted


22 posted on 08/11/2006 12:41:56 PM PDT by Madeleine Ward
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To: driftdiver
"Ok please explain how you would hide a belt of explosives in this."

OK it might not be a belt, but I could hide some type of explosive or warhead in there. I even know how to disguise the fuse and at the same time reduce the risk of a body cavity search. Have I said too much?
23 posted on 08/11/2006 12:42:46 PM PDT by MPJackal ("If you are not with us, you are against us.")
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To: freepatriot32
Meanwhile, in the Meadowlands in New Jersey, a special area has been set aside where Muslim fans can pray during a game.

Isn't that called "home?"

24 posted on 08/11/2006 12:44:50 PM PDT by mhking ("Lotion -- apply directly to your skin; Lotion -- apply directly to your skin...")
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To: Cagey
That's okay. Everyone knows that if a terrorist strikes at an NFL game it will be from the Goodyear Blimp and not a fan in seat H347.

You think they saw that movie?

My money is on Enrico Palazzo....

25 posted on 08/11/2006 12:45:31 PM PDT by mhking ("Lotion -- apply directly to your skin; Lotion -- apply directly to your skin...")
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To: Theophilus
personally don't like living in a world where I am perpetually a suspect. If that's the way we have to be, then the terrorists Islamofacists and other totalitarians have already won. Bravo to the judge who is courageously taking the risk on himself because you can't pat down everybody, all the time, anyway.

That is my feeling as well. One cannot have a free society based on "what if" scenarios.

26 posted on 08/11/2006 12:47:55 PM PDT by beltfed308 (Nanny Statists are Ameba's.)
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To: b4its2late

Agreed.


27 posted on 08/11/2006 12:48:25 PM PDT by rintense
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To: Madeleine Ward
IMHO, the only good way to keep Americans safe is to bomb each and every one of the terrorists back to the stoneage.

Regardless of how many of our freedoms we sacrifice they will still find a way as long as they are alive.
28 posted on 08/11/2006 12:49:06 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: GeronL
They have metal detectors at government schools don't they? and court houses?

And Federal Buildings, and the government buildings in Washington. And what about airports...the Tampa Airport is "owned" and operated by the county Aviation Authority, but searches go on there.

29 posted on 08/11/2006 12:49:07 PM PDT by dawn53
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To: driftdiver

"Ok please explain how you would hide a belt of explosives in this."

She could be a fembot...


30 posted on 08/11/2006 12:49:13 PM PDT by rock_lobsta (cair = hamas = iran = EVIL)
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To: mhking

Mine is on Reggie Jackson.


31 posted on 08/11/2006 12:49:36 PM PDT by rintense
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To: freepatriot32

Yeah....those pesky Constitutional rights keep getting in the way!!!


32 posted on 08/11/2006 12:50:43 PM PDT by Mr. Quarterpanel (I am not an actor, but I play one on TV)
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To: freepatriot32
I wonder if his logic had something to do with the stadium being state property - I think I remember a Six Flags case upholding the right of a private property owner to require searches as a condition of entry.

That said, football just wouldn't be the same without frats and alums getting their flasks in.
33 posted on 08/11/2006 12:53:17 PM PDT by gondramB
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To: rock_lobsta

'She could be a fembot."

Yea baabeee!!!

I am so glad its football season again. Next is Hockey!


34 posted on 08/11/2006 12:54:13 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: dawn53

Hey, if the name of the game is making money then they are simply doing what they are supposed to be doing.

This business of home brewed bombs is disturbing though...


35 posted on 08/11/2006 12:54:36 PM PDT by misterrob
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To: freepatriot32
Contrast this ruling with that of Judge Berman concerning the NYC Subway searches. Granted it is random search versus pat down, but the key difference is that the judge acknowledged that there is a such thing as a tasty target. Not having read this Tampa ruling, I'm not sure whether random searches would be allowed, but OK, let the sports fan beware. Quite frankly, if the terrorists mess with the NFL season, they seal their doom. Then again, isn't that what the Iran kook wants?
36 posted on 08/11/2006 12:54:51 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (Tom Gallagher - the anti-Crist [FL Governor, 2006 primary])
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To: freepatriot32

I wonder if the news media or CAIR are going to send a bunch of suspicious-acting Moose Limbs into footballs stadiums this season and then film everybody's responses?


37 posted on 08/11/2006 12:58:40 PM PDT by D-Chivas
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To: Theophilus
I personally don't like living in a world where I am perpetually a suspect. If that's the way we have to be, then the terrorists Islamofacists and other totalitarians have already won. Bravo to the judge who is courageously taking the risk on himself because you can't pat down everybody, all the time, anyway.

I know that we are in the minority, but I agree. These evil b*#! do not win when they kill us; they win when they take our way of life from us. Our freedom, our unity, our peace of mind. If we are doomed to live in a world of perpetual terror like sheep whose every move is and behavior is scrutinized by goverment then we have surrendered to them; bowed right down and said, "You win muzzie...". Freedom is not free, it is paid for in blood. How soon we forget this. As a soldier, I don't forget this... and as a Christian, I'm not afraid...

38 posted on 08/11/2006 1:01:59 PM PDT by LambSlave (If you have to ask permission it's not a right...)
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To: Sterm26

For the record, in Philly

What about batteries? Philly fans bad, bad!


39 posted on 08/11/2006 1:08:12 PM PDT by wolfcreek (You can spit in our tacos and you can rape our dogs but, you can't take away our freedom!)
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To: driftdiver

"Regardless of how many of our freedoms we sacrifice they will still find a way as long as they are alive."

I wish more people could see that.


40 posted on 08/11/2006 1:23:44 PM PDT by Let's Roll ( "Congressmen who ... undermine the military ... should be arrested, exiled or hanged" - A. Lincoln)
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To: freepatriot32
Jeez, why is it that no one else seems to rationalize like me:
If you are muslim you are not allowed to go to football games, or more importantly fly on planes. It is THAT simple. The vast majority of the muslim community does not condemn the attacks or attempts so they apparently don't have a problem with it or are in favor of it. We should start treating them like they are, all the same.
41 posted on 08/11/2006 1:31:03 PM PDT by xpertskir (Shave the Whales)
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To: wolfcreek

Only a few morons did that, and that was 8 years ago. I agree, it's tough dealing with some of the dopes,and we have our share, but please don't lump us all in with them!!! We're just desperate for a freakin championship of some sort!


42 posted on 08/11/2006 1:45:40 PM PDT by Sterm26 (Death before Dhimmitude!)
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To: LambSlave

Maybe we shouldn't be afraid, but we shouldn't give the Muzzies carte blanche to hit tempting targets, either.


43 posted on 08/11/2006 1:47:21 PM PDT by Sterm26 (Death before Dhimmitude!)
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To: Sterm26

Too late, I'm a Cowboy fan! Consider yourself lumped! LOL!


44 posted on 08/11/2006 1:51:51 PM PDT by wolfcreek (You can spit in our tacos and you can rape our dogs but, you can't take away our freedom!)
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To: xpertskir

And how will you tell that someone is a Muslim terrorist?

By asking him? By his looks?

Think he's going to tell you the truth? Muslims come from all around the world and pretty much look like America. And a lot of Europeans look like people from Northern Africa. I do hope you aren't pinning your hopes on some tamperproof ID.

As long as people are going to go around trying to kill other people searches for the use of public facilities are reasonable. So is surveillance. The question is whether the government can use the results to prosecute. Israel has security everywhere. Is it not a free society?


45 posted on 08/11/2006 2:11:21 PM PDT by cosine
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To: wolfcreek

Ugh. Can't wait for the return of T.O.....they WILL need metal detectors at the Linc!


46 posted on 08/11/2006 2:12:30 PM PDT by Sterm26 (Death before Dhimmitude!)
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To: NonValueAdded
And lo and behold, Berman was upheld just today. Court Says Random NYC Subway Searches OK
47 posted on 08/11/2006 2:48:39 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (Tom Gallagher - the anti-Crist [FL Governor, 2006 primary])
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To: freepatriot32; Howlin

anyone have any link to the Oklahoma State middle eastern student who blew himself up while on the way to a football game ?


48 posted on 08/11/2006 3:10:22 PM PDT by staytrue
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To: freepatriot32

from widipedia

Explosive device
In a press conference university president David Boren said that Hinrichs used explosives strapped to his body. [4] Initially, it appeared that the device was made from hydrogen peroxide. [5] Later it was revealed that it was actually composed of triacetone triperoxide (TATP), a derivative of various household products including hydrogen peroxide. TATP is an extremely unstable compound, and will sometimes detonate spontaneously.

There were also reports of a second device being found and a controlled detonation taking place at approximately 9:00 p.m..[6] It was likely a backpack or bag.

[edit]
Responsible party
In a press conference on October 2, 2005, university President David L. Boren identified Joel Henry Hinrichs III, 21, an engineering student at OU, as responsible for the bombing.

Hinrichs was originally from Colorado Springs, Colorado, a National Merit Scholar who graduated from Wasson High School in May 2002[7]. His father, Joel Hinrichs Jr., described him as a "very private individual" who had gone through "several severe bouts of depression". Joel's depression was noted as early as ten years old. His father believes that the "underlying cause was his inability to bond with other people. He couldn't make friendships." He said that Joel had a hard time relating with others and that he "was very sensitive and defensive in interacting with others, to the point he didn't even know his own roommate. He went on to say that Hinrichs had been undergoing counseling at Goddard Health Center, which is located on campus.[8] Even after the event was announced that the incident was simply the act of a troubled youth ending his life, others assessed the situation differently. Mark Tapscott of the Heritage Foundation remarked, "There are about 30,000 suicides in America, unfortunately, every year. And you can go back a decade, and you will not find a single one of those suicides who blew themselves up in proximity, close proximity, to 84,000 people at a football game." [9]

Hinrichs was a member of Triangle Fraternity. Hinrichs' father said that Joel had "recently moved out of the fraternity house because "he didn't bond, didn't relate well to the other fraternity members." In the chapter meeting following the bombing the members of his fraternity were asked to direct all questions and comments to one member of their fraternity and not to discuss anything with the media, this was advised in hopes of limiting rumors and other theories. [10]

According to local media, Hinrichs had even bigger plans originally, as he had tried to buy ammonium nitrate at a local feed store, Ellison Feed & Seed, according to its owner.[11] Ammonium nitrate was used in the Oklahoma city bombing in 1995. It was later revealed that a Norman off-duty police officer overheard the conversation between the feedstore owner and Hinrichs. The officer followed Hinrichs out of the store and checked Hinrichs' licence plate. The officer then started an investigation when his shift started. That investigation was still in progress when the bomb went off.[12]

Hinrichs had a Pakistani student roommate and there are rumors that Hinrichs was an Islamic convert and attended the Norman mosque where Zacharias Moussaoui had previously attended [13]. (However Ashraf Hussein, the president of the Muslim Student Association at OU, has denied that Hinrichs attended mosque in Norman.[14]) The mosque in question is near the apartment in which Hinrichs lived before his suicide. There have also been claims that investigators found Islamic jihad material in Hinrichs' apartment. The local congressman, Tom Cole (R-OK), said he asked the FBI about the jihadist material and was told that absolutely none was found.

There are also reports that Hinrichs tried to enter the stadium and was denied entry after refusing to be searched. Hinrichs was not a student season ticket holder. Cole indicated that the FBI told him "We may never know" if Hinrichs really did have plans to enter the stadium. The FBI had no evidence either way. Cole also said that the FBI told him that Hinrichs' family and friends claim that Hinrichs has long been fascinated with bombs and ammunition. [15]

Mr. Hinrichs left a suicide note on his computer that was found when investigators entered his apartment. The suicide note said, "None of you are worth living with. You can all kiss my ass."[16]

In July 2006, the FBI formally declared that there was no evidence that Mr. Hinrichs was a terrorist. [16]


49 posted on 08/11/2006 3:19:30 PM PDT by staytrue
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To: freepatriot32
Federal District Court Judge James Whittemore

...seems to me we've heard this name before.

50 posted on 08/11/2006 4:45:54 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (in defiance of all hazard.)
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