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Serbia considers Kosovo partition
BBC News ^ | Friday, 11 August 2006

Posted on 08/12/2006 7:55:22 AM PDT by A. Pole

A senior Serbian government official has said she would accept a partition of Kosovo if no other long-term solution can be found.

The president of Serbia's Co-ordination Centre for Kosovo, Sanda Raskovic-Ivic, also said no Serb leader would ever sign a deal giving Kosovo independence.

She said Belgrade's policy was for Kosovo province to have substantial autonomy within the Serbian state.

Kosovo is technically part of Serbia but has been run by the UN since 1999.

The vast majority of Kosovo's population are ethnic Albanian who have been pressing for independence.

Kosovo's Prime Minister Agim Ceku has ruled out partition as an option and the international community has said it does not want to see the province's boundaries changed.

UN-brokered talks on the future of the province have so far brought no breakthrough.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: albania; albanian; allybetrayed; antichristian; appeasement; balkans; clintonlegacy; islam; islamofascists; jihad; kosovo; muslim; nato; serbia; serbs; sorosfluffers; toothlessdhimmi; wrongplace; wrongside; wrongtime; wrongwar
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1 posted on 08/12/2006 7:55:24 AM PDT by A. Pole
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To: A. Pole; Bokababe; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; ma bell; ...

It is mind-boggling that the Europeans don't see that they will be the next to lose their nations to Muhammedan immigration.


2 posted on 08/12/2006 7:59:08 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: ninenot; sittnick; steve50; Hegemony Cricket; Willie Green; Wolfie; ex-snook; FITZ; arete; ...
Kosovo's Prime Minister Agim Ceku has ruled out partition as an option and the international community has said it does not want to see the province's boundaries changed.

And why is that so? Why the Serbs in northern Kosovo should be broken away from Serbia against their will?

3 posted on 08/12/2006 7:59:15 AM PDT by A. Pole (If the lettuce cutters were paid $10 more per hour, the lettuce head would cost FIVE CENTS more.)
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To: A. Pole
Kosovo is technically part of Serbia but has been run by the UN since 1999.

That's why church after church has been destroyed!

4 posted on 08/12/2006 8:00:10 AM PDT by Andy from Beaverton (I only vote Republican to stop the Democrats)
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To: Andy from Beaverton
Kosovo is technically part of Serbia but has been run by the UN since 1999.

That's why church after church has been destroyed!

But it was not UN, it was NATO. In UN there are countries friendly to the Serbs.

5 posted on 08/12/2006 8:01:32 AM PDT by A. Pole (If the lettuce cutters were paid $10 more per hour, the lettuce head would cost FIVE CENTS more.)
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To: Andy from Beaverton

I wonder how long it will be before the UN considers partition to be a solution to the Aztlan problem?


6 posted on 08/12/2006 8:13:14 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: FormerLib
I wonder how long it will be before the UN considers partition to be a solution to the Aztlan problem?

The partition of Aztlan will not be allowed. Even the parts inhabited by the Anglos will not be allowed to remain in America. The borders of Aztlan or Albanian Kasava may not be changed.

7 posted on 08/12/2006 8:16:09 AM PDT by A. Pole (If the lettuce cutters were paid $10 more per hour, the lettuce head would cost FIVE CENTS more.)
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To: A. Pole
The vast majority of the UN countries may be supporting Serbia, but they don't run the show. The UN was once a noble idea/organization, but it has degenerated into a circus.

Not one of the UN administrations in Kosovo since 1999 has been even remotely impartial. Kosovo is worse off now than it was before. It's a crime- and violence-ridden hellhole.

8 posted on 08/12/2006 9:24:57 AM PDT by Banat (DEO • REGI • PATRIĆ: http://www.SAVEKOSOVO.org)
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To: A. Pole
The vast majority of Kosovo's population are ethnic Albanian who have been pressing for independence.

The most important background line of the story has been omitted as usual. 70% to 80% of Albanians are Muslim. Independence would create another Lebanon and allow another Muslim stronghold to threaten Europe.

There are 1 billion Muslims, if only ten percent are radical, that is 100 million who hate us and want to kill us.

We should thank Carter for the problem in Iran and clinton for Kosovo, there was no mass murder or ethnic cleansing in Kosovo when clinton started an undeclared war.

9 posted on 08/12/2006 9:49:43 AM PDT by BIGZ
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To: BIGZ

bump for further discussion.


10 posted on 08/12/2006 9:51:38 AM PDT by Ciexyz (Leaning on the everlasting arms.)
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To: FormerLib; A. Pole; Bokababe; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; ...

Would just love to see the KLA try and push the Serbs in Mirtovica out because Ceku wants it all. If the Serbs agree to partion Kosovo, the KLA scum will have a tantrum, start shooting, which they will at which poing the world will see them for what they are, just before the Serbian military cuts them down to size.....


11 posted on 08/12/2006 11:51:41 AM PDT by Wraith (To have peace prepare for War.)
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To: A. Pole
It looks like the UN has been doing as fine a job here as they have done in Southern Lebanon. Or the Sudan. Or the Congo. Or the "temporary" Palestinian refugee camps. Or wherever.

This is one massively useless organization whose only real result is allowing the worst elements of damaged societies to flourish and take over. And maintainly it's immense and venal bureaucracy at huge costs, naturally.

It's time to extricate ourselves and flush this beast out of our country!

12 posted on 08/12/2006 12:22:35 PM PDT by Gritty (Permanence is the illusion of every age - Mark Steyn)
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To: Gritty

Once a group or groups learn how the UN works and how to manipulate the situation, the UN becomes their pawn. And Muslim organizations have learned, too well, how to use and manipulate the UN.

The UN is an organization whose time is over!


13 posted on 08/12/2006 2:54:02 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: A. Pole
The Contact Group Guiding Principles of November 2005 make clear that there should be: no return of Kosovo to the pre-1999 situation, no partition of Kosovo, and no union of Kosovo with any or part of another country. Ministers re-state the international community's willingness to establish, for an interim period after a settlement, appropriate international civilian and military structures to help ensure compliance with the settlement's provisions. Day-to-day governance , which must be conducted on a multi-ethnic basis, should rest with Kosovo's duly-elected representatives. Ministers recall NATO's continuing commitment to maintain a safe and secure environment through KFOR. source.

The "no partition" condition has been laid out from the start, and was reiterated as recently as August 4th.

The Serbian delegation is just wasting time at this point.

14 posted on 08/12/2006 4:01:29 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
The "no partition" condition has been laid out from the start, and was reiterated as recently as August 4th. The Serbian delegation is just wasting time at this point.

Why are you so generous to the Serbs? Living together with Albanian Muslim majority must be the greatest happiness according to you.

15 posted on 08/12/2006 7:15:05 PM PDT by A. Pole ("Gay marriage" - Karl Rove's conspiracy to defeat Democrats?)
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To: A. Pole
It's not for me to be generous or otherwise, A. Pole.

If the Serbs had bothered to listen to the Contact Group, they'd have known that this latest initiative of theirs is a non-starter, and merely a waste of time.

16 posted on 08/12/2006 7:35:03 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
Ministers recall NATO's continuing commitment to maintain a safe and secure environment through KFOR."

The punch line of the joke!

17 posted on 08/13/2006 4:02:19 AM PDT by F-117A (They say there is no such thing as an ex-Marine,.Murtha disproves that!!!)
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To: Wraith
Hence the Serbian Army-US Military informal alliance/agreement which is two-fold for the current and future purpose.

1. The closeness allows observation and further "intel" on the movements etc... of the Serb Military.

2. The training alliance allows the US to train up the Serb Military for their own personal vanguard in Kosovo and Southern Serbia. At some future point, in BiH as well.


When the KLA become too out of control and such a liability, the US will give the Serb Govt the green light to move in to kick the living sht out of the KPC, KLA, the KFC or whatever they will call themselves tommorow.

The time will arrive when the Cekus of Kosovo have pushed their boundaries too far and pay the price. He will piss off one too many of his fellow Alb criminals when a hotshot young yahoo thinks it's "his turn" to control the crime syndicate in Pristine and run Kosovo.

Don't worry about Ceku and Thaci evading justice when it will be sweet jesus when they are done in by his fellow "Kosovars".

18 posted on 08/13/2006 4:58:31 AM PDT by ma bell ("Take me to Pristine. I want to see the "real terrorists", Former Marine)
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To: Wraith
what a shame../sarcasm/


Bosnian police complete an investigation of the grave of Bosnia's first President and top Muslim leader Alija Izetbegovic which was damaged by an explosion at the Martyr Cemetery in Sarajevo's Old Town, early August 11, 2006. Prosecutors said the explosion created a crater of 70 cm (28 inches) diameter but the mortal remains were not damaged. Izetbegovic, a Bosnian Muslim, believed that peaceful coexistence between Christians and Muslims is impossible unless Muslims dominate them. REUTERS/ Danilo Krstanovic (BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA) 

19 posted on 08/13/2006 5:14:43 AM PDT by ma bell ("Take me to Pristine. I want to see the "real terrorists", Former Marine)
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To: FormerLib; montyspython
The KLA, KPC, and what is their new future name, the KFC? Kosovo Freedom Corps? We'd have to spell that acronym out, otherwise hoplite would see it as a sign to run out to the Ky Fried Chicken joint for a bucket of fried chickhun.

Ya know, flashbacks to his day in the Guard while pulling security for the corner KFC.

20 posted on 08/13/2006 10:13:02 AM PDT by ma bell ("Take me to Pristine. I want to see the "real terrorists", Former Marine)
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To: Banat
Kosovo is worse off now than it was before. It's a crime- and violence-ridden hellhole.

The facts say the opposite. In 1998 & the first half of 99 there were thousands killed of all ethnicities; 860,000 Kosovo Albanians in refugee camps outside Kosovo; hundreds of thousands more internally displaced inside Kosovo; 120,000 homes destroyed; and 800 Albanian schools plus 235 Albanian mosques and 9 Albanian Catholic churches destroyed or damaged. Then in the summer of 99 after the NATO bombardment, the Albanians returned to their looted & burned-out towns in somewhat of a bad mood and destroyed over 100 Serb Orthodox Churches while over 100,000 Serbs fled revenge attacks.

Compare that with:

2002 "There were 68 killings of citizens in Kosovo during the year, compared with 136 in 2001. According to available figures, assailants killed 60 Kosovar Albanians, 6 Kosovo Serbs, and 2 persons of unknown ethnicity."

2003 "During the year, police recorded 72 killings ... of these, 17 involved victims from minority communities (24 percent). There were 13 killings of ethnic Serbs during the year, 7 of which were widely believed to be ethnically motivated."

2004 "Approximately 62 killings occurred during the year, including 20 deaths as a result of the March violence; 11 of the victims were Serbs, including 8 during the March riots. Outside of the March riots, Kosovo Serbs were victims of three killings, three attempted killings, and one serious attack…"

Compared to 98 & 99 for all ethnicities--and the entire decade of the 90s for Kosovo Albanians--Kosovo is now much less of a "hell-hole" than it was when the Serbs were running the place.

21 posted on 08/13/2006 2:03:05 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
Right, 1998 and 1999 (June 98 - June 99) were the "war" years. From the summer of 1998 'til the end of aggression, Kosovo was in a state of low-intensity war.

Why don't we look at the period 1945 - 1998, or how about just 1968 - 1998?

Didn't see any mention of the terrorist activity 1992 - 1998 in your post, either.

22 posted on 08/13/2006 11:19:55 PM PDT by Banat (DEO • REGI • PATRIĆ: http://www.SAVEKOSOVO.org)
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To: Banat
Why don't we look at the period 1945 - 1998, or how about just 1968 - 1998?

1945 was an interesting period in Kosovo--the Germans had retreated north and the Albanian Balli Kombetar and remaining Serb Chetniks were now fighting Tito's partisans. Albanian partisan leader (and later commie dictator) Enver Hoxha even sent up his best commander--Mehmet Shehu--with the equivalent of an Albanian Partisan Division to help Tito. This engendered some unique moments of Chetnik & Bali Kombetar cooperation against their common enemy: the Albanian & Yugoslav communist Partisans.

Fast forward to the late 80s/90s and you get the four major events that got Kosovo to where it is today. First was Milosevic using Serb nationalism and particularly the situation in Kosovo to gain power. Second was Milosevic engineering the re-writing of the constitution to revoke Kosovo autonomy--this was what sparked the Kosovo Albanian declaration of independence. Third was when the 1995 Dayton negotiations and accord did not include the Kosovo situation--this was what discredited Rugova's non-violent approach and spurred the formation of the KLA. Fourth was in 1997 when the neighboring Albanian government collapsed and they had civil unrest and chaos--the looting of the Alb army depots & lack of government authority over its borders gave the KLA a source of weapons and a sanctuary. Revocation of autonomy & Serb nationalism were the casus beli, the failure of non-violence to get Kosovo considered at Dayton provided the motivation, and the collapse of Albania provided the means for the war.

Which is a long way of saying that it was major events that led to the war; not individual incidents of violence. Those were the symptoms, not the cause.

23 posted on 08/14/2006 4:46:36 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
I will repeat what banat said...Kosovo is worse off now then previously, mark. Let us look back to the Pre-1997 years.

How many deaths were there in 1995, 1992, 1990 or 1989 compared to 2006/current date?

24 posted on 08/14/2006 5:10:59 AM PDT by ma bell ("Take me to Pristine. I want to see the "real terrorists", Former Marine)
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To: mark502inf; Bokababe; tgambill
KLA was formed earlier in the late 80s but not formally recognized as the "KLA" when the media and foreign govts became more engaged in the PR and "support"...

The "revocation" of the Autonomy? Why would it be suddenly a suddenly recognized Autonomous Region when post-WW2, NATO-nations never recognized the internal boundaries/borders of the shifted boundary lines that Tito created? Those "boundary" lines were included in the new power shift move away from the Serbs in the early 1970's. All this after the Croatian Spring Offensive during that period. hmmm...

That autonomous declaration was not done in accordance to the "Yugo" Constitution making it mute.

That was done illegaly and done hurriedly due to his knowing it would further weaken the Serb political power base. There was much anger that the Croats were given more power then the Serbs were being stripped of their clout.

That was when the failed assassination attempt prompted him to rush/run it through in illegal fashion to get that auto/region a done deal.

In essence, the illegality ways makes that province nonexistance, but only in Tito's constitution.

You want to go deeper, we can go deeper Mark.

25 posted on 08/14/2006 5:22:02 AM PDT by ma bell ("Take me to Pristine. I want to see the "real terrorists", Former Marine)
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To: mark502inf

How about the killing of any American troops by Albs?


26 posted on 08/14/2006 5:24:15 AM PDT by ma bell ("Take me to Pristine. I want to see the "real terrorists", Former Marine)
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To: ma bell

Americans back home have absolutely no idea about what the Balkans is all about....and what actually happened. Granted, the Serbian paramilitaries did over step and fell into the trap. The MSM exaggerated enough to justify the war or bombing....... I'm going to flag you to my last post...people have no idea.


27 posted on 08/14/2006 6:48:17 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: mark502inf; ma bell; joan; Bokababe

You forgot a few interesting tidbits in 1945....the Albanians formed an Albanian SS Division called Skenderburg Division. They massacred thousands of Serbs and Jews....with the promise of Greater Albania by old Adolf....Historical fact. Interestingly enough fast forward. In the Macedonian fight with the NLA, they formed the Skenderburg Division once again north of Skopje. They had 17 advisors from MPRI that had to be pulled out when Macedonian troops were closing in. This is also a fact confirmed by not only Military sources I talked with but also from several UN personnel in Macedonia. On, by the way, the Albanian Albanians did not have the same agenda or inclination as the Kosovar Albanians. This is well documented and loads of references......

Now, the beginning of Kosovo, this was initiated by us but introducing the Muh, into Bosnia to start the dismemberment of Yugoslavia. Sort of like putting another scorpion into the jar...and setting back to watch what happens.....



Now,


28 posted on 08/14/2006 8:22:02 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill

mark does not tell of the American soldiers that have been killed or wounded by Kvo-Albanians either.


29 posted on 08/14/2006 8:56:09 AM PDT by ma bell ("Take me to Pristine. I want to see the "real terrorists", Former Marine)
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To: ma bell
mark does not tell of the American soldiers that have been killed or wounded by Kvo-Albanians either

Never happened, ma. We've never had a single U.S. soldier killed by enemy action--Serb or Alb--in Kosovo. Not a one.

30 posted on 08/14/2006 9:35:14 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
yes there were, mark. A Soldier was killed by an Albanian teen with a 47. They were returning from an OP overwatching a town set in a valley in northern kosovo, close to the Serb border and ended up stopping in a small town. While pulling security, the teen opened up and killed him. This was northern Kosovo between Leposavic and Gnjiljenja(sp?).

An element from the 3d ID that was attached there, this was before the ARNG units rotated in.

There were other instances of wounded soldiers, mark. I'm sorry that I did not write down exact units and get grid coords or MSR's etc otherwise I'd tell ya. I know the location if i saw it on my map i had before it got destroyed through usage.

It's all about integrity, mark.

31 posted on 08/14/2006 10:16:23 AM PDT by ma bell ("Take me to Pristine. I want to see the "real terrorists", Former Marine)
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To: tgambill
in 1945 ... the Albanians formed an Albanian SS Division called Skenderburg Division. They massacred thousands of Serbs and Jews....with the promise of Greater Albania by old Adolf....Historical fact

Tom, the Skanderbeg Division was formed not by the Albanians, but by the Germans at the direction of Heinrich Himmler. The Germans organized, trained, and paid the soldiers. The commander was always a German as well as almost all the officers and most of the NCOs (some were Volksdeutch, many were from the German navy where not too many ships were left afloat!).

The division was formed not in 1945, but in March-April 1944 and became operational in June 1944. It was manned with 6,491 Albanians and somewhat over 2000 Germans. Within months 3,500 of the Albanians had deserted. By mid-autumn, it's strength had dwindled to less than a regiment--almost all Germans.

It was obviously not a promise of "Greater Albania" that was the incentive for Albanians to join, since "Greater Albania" (i.e. boundaries that encompassed all the Albanian population of the Balkans) already existed at that time--the Italians and Germans had already set that up a couple years before.

The Skanderbeg Division only existed as a division for a few months, was not effective, and most of the Albanians deserted as soon as they'd received a weapon and a couple month's pay. Contrast that with, for example, the Serb Volunteer Corps that worked for the Serb Quisling government under Nedic in Belgrade. The Serb Volunteer Corps was operational for four years (1941 - 1945), grew to over 10,000 volunteers, and included no Germans. It was organized, recruited, and commanded by Serbs. The Nazis praised it as a very effective ally.

32 posted on 08/14/2006 10:26:47 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: tgambill
They had 17 advisors from MPRI

Uh, Tom, did the Mosaad hit the towers on 9-11, or was it the Bush Administration? Did we really land on the moon, or was it all just on a sound-stage in California? Was it an airliner that hit the Pentagon on 9-11 or a cruise missile?

Please answer--that'll help me figure out whether you are another conspiracy nut or simply misinformed.

33 posted on 08/14/2006 10:32:58 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
Fast forward to the late 80s/90s and you get the four major events that got Kosovo to where it is today. First was Milosevic using Serb nationalism and particularly the situation in Kosovo to gain power.

What Serbian nationalism? Mark, the Serbs sacrificed their own state for Yugoslavia. They didn't have to - they could've easily gotten much of what was then in possession of Austria-Hungary (the whole of Bosnia, Lika, Kordun, much of Dalmatia and almost all of Slavonia). The Serbs and others in Kosovo & Metohia lived in an apartheid-like system, especially after the Amendments of 1968. The Albanians were effectively running Kosovo (1968 - 1989), and the discrimination was pretty much institutionalized. Scores of newspaper articles and reports exist from that time, most notably the NY Times dispatches by D. Binder. The Albanians were bent on separating Kosovo & Metohia from Serbia ever since the 1st Prizren League, which is half a century before Miloshevich was even born.

The Serbs were second class citizens in their own country, and those who were lucky enough to live elsewhere had to "voluntarily" subsidize the failed province, the "black hole" of Yugoslavia. Billions upon billions of dollars (Serbian taxpayer money) went into Kosovo, just for the authorities there to squander the cash. The entire post-war infrastructure of Kosovo was built by Serbia/Serbian taxpayers, since Kosovo Albanians never paid any taxes nor did they pay for any public services.

So, Serbia was subsidizing Kosovo, and at the same time had absolutely no control over that part of its territory and the Serbs and other minorities lived in constant fear for their lives.

The autonomy was not revoked or taken away. The constitutional amendment was voted on by the Provincial Government of Kosovo.

Yes, Miloshevich did use the situation in Kosovo to gain advantage over his rivals in the Communist Party - but had there been no "situation" in Kosovo, he wouldn't have gained power. Therefore, Miloshevich is the consequence of Kosovo, not the cause. Kosovo had been a mess for quite some time prior to Miloshevich entering politics.

Second was Milosevic engineering the re-writing of the constitution to revoke Kosovo autonomy--this was what sparked the Kosovo Albanian declaration of independence.

I have already briefly touched upon this issue. Miloshevich did take part in that, but he did not do it alone. The Serbian and Kosovo parliaments finalized the amendment.

Third was when the 1995 Dayton negotiations and accord did not include the Kosovo situation--this was what discredited Rugova's non-violent approach and spurred the formation of the KLA.

Kosovo had nothing to do with Bosnia. Bosnia was a Yugoslav republic, Kosovo was a province of Serbia. At the time of Dayton, Bosnia had already become an independent country. Kosovo was rightly viewed as some other country's (Serbia's) internal issue. Give me one good reason why Kosovo should've been included in the Dayton Agreement.

Fourth was in 1997 when the neighboring Albanian government collapsed and they had civil unrest and chaos--the looting of the Alb army depots & lack of government authority over its borders gave the KLA a source of weapons and a sanctuary.

Oh, come on, Mark! Albania never ever did much to stop the KLA from crossing the border, and they never did anything to shut down the terrorist training camps in the north. Whenever the KLA smugglers were caught, it was always on the Serbian side of the border. The weapons were also supplied by the BND and the CIA, as was military training for the KLA.

Revocation of autonomy & Serb nationalism were the casus beli, the failure of non-violence to get Kosovo considered at Dayton provided the motivation, and the collapse of Albania provided the means for the war.

Again, according to your distorted version of history it was Miloshevich who's at fault for using Serbian nationalism to repress the Albanians who then rose up and started fighting Serbia. The facts don't seem to support your argument as the KLA is nothing but a culmination of a 100-year-long campaign to separate Kosovo from Serbia. Miloshevich didn't appear out of nowhere and for no reason, and the Serbian population of Kosovo didn't just wake up one day and started fearing for their lives.

34 posted on 08/14/2006 10:43:18 AM PDT by Banat (DEO • REGI • PATRIĆ: http://www.SAVEKOSOVO.org)
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To: Banat; ma bell; tgambill; mark502inf; DTA; F-117A
Mark the Albanian shill gets another history lesson, what a dope. Mark, you're a glutton for punishment and you must be enjoying getting your ass handed to you on these threads, rather embarrassing for you actually.

You go ahead and continue on with that and we'll continue to laugh at you.

35 posted on 08/14/2006 12:15:10 PM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: mark502inf

markus,

I'm surprised to see that you are so misinformed. You didn't live there and if you actually did you had your head in the sand. There were in fact 17 MPRI contractors.....they were contracted to advise the NLA. This is a solid fact confirmed by not only Civilian intell persons you might say...all the way to several military "associates" that were not too happy about it.

So, you are either seriously under the weather or just another hopperlite that is here to spread misinformation. MPRI was contracted to advise the NLA. They advised in a role less than they did in Operation Storm. That is a fact in history Sonny. The same operation that Ceku murdered or had murdered in the same way they say the Serbs did......Butcher of Croatia.

It's really shameful and demeaning to have explain these events that have been well known for a long time. It really shocks me that you are that far behind.......

Wrong about the Skenderburg Division.....the Albanians from Kosovo murdered thousands......Serbs and Jews.....end of story. You have a lot of catching up to do.


36 posted on 08/14/2006 12:41:41 PM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: mark502inf

lolol....that is my message to you...Do you know what SOS and LOL means? Let me explain s l o w l y f o r
y o u.... you had me going there for a few minutes. Okay LOL means.....Lack of Learning. yes, markus, that is you. SOS, for you civilians or if you were military you had a LOL.....SOS, son, means SAME OLE S#*T....dig.

Now, about the Skenderburg division....your sources. LOLOL...did you check yor source..it vas un Albanian source, smart guy.... :)) Now, granted, there are some Serbian sources that do tell the truth. The Albanian sources traditionally "leave out" or modify certain key bits of things called facts.....that are relevant to the true nature and perspective.

I needed that laugh.....thanks. I have to had it too ya...for someone not knowing the truth you sure have this misinformation rehearsed very well.....not a bad job.


37 posted on 08/14/2006 12:54:50 PM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill
...just another hopperlite that is here to spread misinformation.

There's your answer. I was pretty excited when he first signed up here, but was quickly dissapointed. I thought we were going to get an objective 3rd party source for stuff that went on over there. Obviously I was wrong. His posts are worthless.

I'm guessing he's affiliated with the ICG or some other band of clowns.

38 posted on 08/14/2006 1:24:44 PM PDT by getoffmylawn (Greg Dulli will steal your girlfriend.)
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To: getoffmylawn

"affiliated with the ICG"

I wonder....did you read the references that he cited? And the emblem?

:)) Surely if he represents ICG, they are a little more sophiscated....at least their writing is not obviously written by a simpleton.


39 posted on 08/14/2006 11:16:56 PM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: mark502inf

Mark, I don't have the time to educate you or deal with the misinformation in a post..read the truth if you want. Otherwise, others can read.

I have been doing research in the history of Kosovo for a good while. I have discovered that “history books” post dated 1991 -1992 are fabricated and full of incorrect historical assertions. To many people not familiar with Balkan history, the violence and bloodshed that took place in the former Yugoslavia in the 1990’s is incomprehensible. So, we can ask ourselves just how is it possible that such atrocities could occur in Europe on the eve of the new millennium and continue under our noses? The answer to this is to be found in the events that took place in Yugoslavia during the Second World War. Following the invasion of Yugoslavia, the country was dismembered and divided among the axis powers, Germany, Italy, Hungary and Bulgaria. Croatia was granted independence as an axis puppet state and ruled by Ante Pavelic, the Fascist Ustashi leader. Croatia was awarded by Hitler all of Bosnia-Hercegovina with its large Serbian and Jewish population. Pavelic and the Ustashi proceeded with a campaign of genocide directed against the Serbian and Jewish populations of Croatia and Bosnia-Hercegovina. Frightful massacres took place.

Ustashi gangs savagely slaughtered tens of thousands of Serbs in Croatia, often forcing them into their Orthodox Churches and burning them alive. Other Serbs were given the choice of conversion to Roman Catholicism or death. Yet others were driven out of Croatia into Bosnia or Serbia. Thousands of Jews, Serbs and Gypsies were exterminated in Croatian camps. At the most infamous of these, Jasenovac, close to 100,000 victims was killed-and not by gas- but by the bullet, the club or knife. In Bosnia, similar massacres of Serbs took place. The Muslims of Bosnia often assisted the Ustashi killers. Later in the war, the Germans recruited a Muslim SS Division, which gained notoriety for its atrocities against the Serbian civilian population.

After the invasion of Yugoslavia the Italians occupied Kosovo and when Italy dropped out of the war in 1943, the Germans entered Kosovo and promised the province independence. They raised a SS Division from among the Albanian population; the infamous Skenderberg Division, which set about methodically to slaughter Serbs in Kosovo.

Guess what!!!! Today, as I write, December 15, 2005, the Skenderburg Division is operating in Macedonia as a unit of the ANA. They formed during the last 90’s.

The SS high Comm in WWII, planned to create a mountain division of 10.000 men. The Higher SS and Police Command in Albania, in conjuction with the Albanian National Committee, listed 11.398 possible recruits for the Waffen SS mountain division. Most of these recruits were "kossovars", shqiptar Ghegs from Kosovo Metohija in Serbia. The Shqiptar Tosks were found mainly in southern Albania. Most of the Shqiptar collaborators with the nazi forces were theNazi forces were the so-called Kossovars, ethnic Shqiptars from the Kosmet of Serbia. The Nazi German-sponsored Albanian gendarmes, special police and para-military units were made up by Kossovars. The Kossovars were under the direct control of the Albanian Interior Minister Xhafer Deva.

The Skanderbeg Division of WWII, not to be confused with the current unit, was formed and trained in Kosovo and was made up mostly of muslim Shqiptar Kossovars. There were only a small number of Albanians from Albania proper in the division. The Skanderbeg Mountain Division of the Wafen SS was thus essentially a Kosovo or Kosmet Division. The Division was stationed and operated in Kosovo and other Serbian regions almost exclusively.

The Skanderbeg division engaged in a policy of ethnic cleansing and genocide against the Serbian Orthodox Christian populations of the regions under occupation by the division in Kosovo Metohija, Montenegro, and southern Serbia. Balkan Historian Robert Lee Wolff, in the "Balkans in Our time", described the genocide committed against Kosovo Serbs by the Shqiptar 21st Waffen Gebirgs Division der SS Skenderbeg as follows:

In the regions annexed by the Albanians, their so-called Skanderbeg division, made up of members of the Albanian minority in Yugoslavia, massacred Serbs with impunity.

Historian L.H. Stavrianos, in "The Balkan Since 1453", described the genocide committed against Orthodox Serbs by the Shqiptar Skanderbeg Division in these terms: Yugoslav Albanians, organized in their fascist Skanderbeg Division, conducted an indiscriminate massacre of Serbians.

The Skanderbeg Division played a role in the Holocaust, the genocide if European Jewry, by rounding up scores of Kosovo Jews in a group roughly 500 persons deemed enemies of the Third Reich when the division occupied Prizren in Kosovo Metohija. The division sought to create ethnically pure Kosovo, ethnically cleansed of Orthodox Serbs, Jews and Gypsies the untermenschen (subhuman), who were targeted for extermination.

The Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal declared the Shutzstaffel or SS criminal organization and every individual member of SS was found to Be a war criminal guilty of "planning and carrying out crimes against humanity". The Shqiptar Kosovars in the 21st Waffen Gebirgs Division "Skanderbeg" committed war crimes and genocide against the Orthodox Serbian population of Kosovo. The Shqiptar planned and carried out crimes against humanity in Kosovo. Orthodox Serbians of Kosovo were the victims of ethnic cleansing and genocide. This genocide would contribute in the Shqiptar goal and policy to create an ethnically pure, Shqiptar Kosovo, in an attempt to create a greater Shqiperia or greater Albania. Following World war II, the Yugoslav Communist dictatorship allowed the policy of ethnic cleansing and genocide against the Orthodox Serbs to continue, and indeed, gave greater impetus and legitimacy to the policy.

Ironically, the UN, USA and NATO are finishing where the Nazi’s left off in WWII.

During World War II, the Axis powers dismembered and occupied Yugoslavia and created a greater Albania by annexing the Serbian region of Kosovo-Metohija by Nazi Germany, Germany formed a Shqiptar "Kosovar" Waffen SS Division, the 21st Waffen Gebirgs Division der SS "Skanderbeg" which engaged in a policy of ethnic cleansing and genocide against the Orthodox Serbian population of Kosovo. The result was that the Shqiptars, with the help of Germany, were able to virtually exterminate the Serbian and Jews populations of Kosovo, thereby creating an ethnically pure, Nazi German-sponsored Greater Albania or Greater Shqiperia.

The Albanian Committee of Kosovo organized massive campaigns of ethnic cleansing and genocide against the Orthodox Serbian inhabitants of Kosovo-Metohija. A contemporary report described the ethnic cleansing and genocide of Serbs as follows:

“Armed with material supplied by the Italians, the Albanians hurled themselves against the helpless settlers in their homes and villages. Accoring to the most reliables sources the Albanians burned many Serbian settlements, killing some of the people and driving out others who escaped to the mountains. At present other Serbian settlements are being attacked and the property of indviduals and of communities is either being confiscated or destroyed. It is not possible to ascertain at the present the exact number of victims of those atrocities, but it may be estimated that at least between 30,000 and 50,000 perished.”

Bedri Pejani, the Muslim leader of the Albanian National Committee, called for the extermination of Orthodox Serbian Christians in Kosovo-Metohija and for a union of a Greater Albania with Bosnia-Hercegovina and the Rashka (Sandzak) region of Serbia into a Greater Islamic State. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin el Husseini, was presented the Pejani plan which he approved as being in the interest of Islam. The Germans,however, rejected the plan.

As the war progressed Serb guerilla bands retaliated against the perpetrators of these crimes with counter massacres of their own. The horrors committed in Yugoslavia during the war, where over a million people perished, were not forgotten. In Croatia, Bosnia or Kosovo, there were few Serbs who had not lost friends or relatives during the Second World War.


http://www.snd-us.com/history/savic_01.htm

http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/istorija/savic_skenderbeyss.html

http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/071.shtml


http://freeserbs.org/~mladich/Kosmet/skenderbeg


40 posted on 08/15/2006 1:49:22 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill; getoffmylawn

I have a running tally on all the times Mark has been corrected, this is just another embarrassing moment for him.


41 posted on 08/15/2006 11:46:35 AM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: mark502inf
The MPRI in Aracinovo BS again?

Been there, done that.

Sadly, some "reporters" in Macedonia were simply passing on what the Macedonian security services were whispering in their ears without doing any fact checking first.

42 posted on 08/15/2006 12:09:46 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
Sadly, some "reporters" in Macedonia were simply passing on what the Macedonian security services were whispering in their ears without doing any fact checking first.

You mean like Gutman & Rohde's fantasy musings from Bosnia? Hehehe...

43 posted on 08/15/2006 12:26:36 PM PDT by Banat (DEO • REGI • PATRIĆ: http://www.SAVEKOSOVO.org)
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To: Banat
It's all fun and denial unless you're one of the Serbs sitting in a prison cell after being convicted of crimes perpetrated at one of the camps Gutman visited or as a part of the Srebrenica massacre documented by Rohde.

Speaking of fun, how are you coming along with this?

44 posted on 08/15/2006 12:36:43 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

MPRI was in there in fact......confirmed from Army Intell officers I knew, that were just as disgruntled as I was. Hoplite, I got to had it too you. Too bad I wasn't on this forum back in 2000 and you were still spreading the BS. You should be getting your nickel plated Micky Mouse watch for your service and membership due to longitivity and faithful service to ICG and Clark Show.

Oh I know, out comes the mass graves card....ho hum. yawn!!!!!! ahhhhhhh,

If MPRI was in operation storm with Ceku, then they were certainly in Macedonia. The first try to destablize Macedonia pretty much failed. There will be another stab if Kosovo gets independent. However, the planning "party" that figured the world might just forget about the 1244 hasn't happened, has it?


45 posted on 08/15/2006 1:11:15 PM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Hoplite

you used that "Been thar and done it" phrase in an exchange with the Upland...something or other that blew you out of the water on that thread. you must be a legend in your own mind.....hmmmmmmm?/ feeling a little like Custer...or is that Egg custard....


46 posted on 08/15/2006 1:19:39 PM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill
MPRI was working with the Macedonian government Tom, not the ANA.

The FY 2002 FMF program will reflect priorities set down by a pending Macedonian Ministry of Defense (MOD) Statement of Work, and developed in cooperation with a DoD assessment team. The MOD terminated U.S. defense consultant MPRI's contract in 2001, which had been the primary USG vehicle for the bilateral military-to-military relationship. However, the MOD has requested, a similar program under new guidelines. Current indications are that the bulk of FY 2002 FMF funds will be directed toward reform consultants and communications equipment. Foreign Military Training and DoD Engagement Activities of Interest: Joint Report to Congress

For the past five years, Macedonia has focused its military efforts on bringing its Army into line with NATO standards, in the hope of one day joining the Western alliance. That has involved less tactical training than bureaucratic moves to redesign the military's force structure and chains of command.

Helping them to do that have been one British officer and 16 former US soldiers working for Military Professional Resources Inc. (MPRI), a private Virginia-based company on contract to the US State Department.
For Macedonian government, one way out: talks (CSM, 9 Jul, 2001)

Wow. 16 +1 = 17. Where do you supppose the "MPRI in Aracinovo" tale got it's number from, huh Tom?

The fact of the matter is that the Macedonian military proved incompetent to wage war against the ANA, and the Macedonian government requested NATO's intervention in getting the ANA out of Aracinovo.

By taking bits and pieces of factual events, modifying them, and putting them together with other factual misrepresentations, a story was concoted about MPRI instructors being in Aracinovo with the ANA. And the only reason it still retains any currency is because of folks like yourself who want to believe are too damned lazy or disinterested to check the facts yourself.

47 posted on 08/15/2006 2:33:10 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
Didn't see your reply. Here's the response:

BBC story 1
BBC story 2
BBC story 3

And here's a summary of all arrests and transfers: FAS

Serbia has jailed/transferred its entire political/military leadership to the Hague. So, yes, Serbia has done more to clean-up its own backyard than all the other sides combined.

48 posted on 08/15/2006 3:06:26 PM PDT by Banat (DEO • REGI • PATRIĆ: http://www.SAVEKOSOVO.org)
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To: Hoplite
EDIT: The last of the three links is actually from Jurist, not the British Broadcasting Corp.
49 posted on 08/15/2006 3:09:11 PM PDT by Banat (DEO • REGI • PATRIĆ: http://www.SAVEKOSOVO.org)
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To: A. Pole

I thought Bill Clinton and Weasly Clarke solved this problem with their incredible "diplomatic" abilities that they seemed to suggest Bush lacks.


50 posted on 08/15/2006 3:10:27 PM PDT by jw777
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