Prosecutor: Mackinac Bridge was target (plan for cell phones)

The Saginaw News ^ | JUSTIN ENGEL08/12/06

[RunningWolf]

I think you are for real, and thanks for letting me know about Steel Wolf he has a lot of good insight that is well written.

W.

[GarySpFc]

the way-more-ten-ton guarantee, you pettifogger, LOL.
ya keep avoiding THAT one, expert!

And you were the clown who stated a daisy cutter or nitric acid would bring down the bridge.

I stand by the 10 tons of HE would not do it, but I would have to have exact detailed information regarding the towers and cables to know the exact amounts needed. And as I stated even then the demolition would be "iffy."

[GarySpFc]

Take a look at Steel Wolf's post #59.

He states, "That may be why they needed so many. There's no way to blow that bridge without serious bomb making power and know how, but how hard would it be to plant a few dozen IEDs on the bridge and cause a panic?"

[RunningWolf]

Bringing down a bridge with bombs and/or placed HE is a dicey proposition as history has shown from WW1 and beyond.

Lets say for sake of argument they drove a truck filled with 10 tons (thats a lot of HE) out onto the bridge and blew it up. Certainly it would blow the roadway out and disable the bridge, but that the blast would sever the suspension cables and take the bridge down is not a certain outcome.

W.

[GarySpFc]

Lets say for sake of argument they drove a truck filled with 10 tons (thats a lot of HE) out onto the bridge and blew it up. Certainly it would blow the roadway out and disable the bridge, but that the blast would sever the suspension cables and take the bridge down is not a certain outcome.

There should be no question that 10 tons of HE would take out the deck of the bridge and some of the supporting cables. However, taking out the bridge permanetly would involve bringing down at least one of the towers, or both of the main cables.

I once ran demo calculations for the Paseo suspension bridge in Kansas City as a project, and it was then I was shocked at the problem involved in bringing down a suspension bridge. The Paseo is a 4 lane bridge crossing the Missouri River, but it is a toy compared to the Mackanic Bridge.

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

give it up, turkey

here's a little lay article that discussed the bare rudiments of "HE" (which has a fps range so close to exponential that its fair to state that it is), and somewhat discusses target materials. You're talking out your lower hole.

Think about it.....10 tons is 20k pounds....33% more than a daisycutter.....then get real and add the potential of 29k+ fps.

and BTW, I NEVER said a daisycutter would bring it down.....but having already called BS once on your lie that I said it, nothing further is warranted no matter how many times you repeat that lie for others, LOL.

#290
1st....a "daisy cutter" is one example of what only 7 1/2 tons of HE will do.....and THAT is as an air burst, NOT even placed ON the target.

(apparently you don't read well, here is your 1st answer:

Granted a daisy cutter will disable the bridge, and "might" even bring down one of the towers, but it would not cut one of the cables. How many terrorists have you ever heard of obtaining a daisy cutter?
Secondly, how long do you think it would take for acid to cut through 24.5 inches of high strength steel?
Thermite explosives will cut the cable, but even so there are problems, which I shall not detail.

299 posted on 08/12/2006 8:55:40 PM EDT by GarySpFc

Now JUST WHO said WHAT?

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

"10 tons (thats a lot of HE)"

yes, it is......esp if it is the 29k+ fps variety, set off underwater

(and mr "SpFc" thinks he wants more, LOL)

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

here's a little lay article that discussed the bare rudiments of "HE"

http://securitydriver.com/aic/stories/article-114.html

sorry, forgot to post the link above..

[GarySpFc]

Firstly, you called me a fraud. I have the credentials, and I have prevously posted my website. That said, I have given my credentials to a couple of individuals to confirm, and I will let them do it.

Secondly, you don't have a clue just what it takes to bring down a bridge like the Mackanic. A daisy cutter will not bring down the bridge, and even though I stated earlier it might bring down a tower, I seriously doubt it.

Thirdly, you did say 00% nitric acid would eat through the cables in minutes. Tommix worked on the bridge, and testified they were coated, and the acid would not work.

Fourthly, I will gladly let everyone be the judge as to which one of us have the most expertise in this area, and you stand out as a fraud.

[GarySpFc]

So clown, are you going to use semtex or C-4?

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

I have no wish to commit anything of the sort.

I just like to jab phonies in the ribs.

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

"....which one of us have the most expertise in this area...."

I claim only common sense.

You claim whatever you hope folks will ooooh and ahhhhh about.

[GarySpFc]

So, which explosive with a 29,000 fps burn rate are you going to use?

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

let me guess......the loaded question "have you stopped beating your wife yet?" is one of your standard pettifoggery tactics.....hmmmmm?

[GarySpFc]

Nah, I have never been afraid to admit when I am wrong or to apologize...unlike others.

[GarySpFc]

If we were talking about a steel girder bridge, then I can handle most of those with 50 to 100 pounds of C-4. I think if you check on the net you will find several similiar bridges and the amount of explosives needed to take them down. However, other bridges are different.

Less than 10 years ago a former Special Forces demolition man was paid to demo a concrete and steel bridge over the interstate less than 2 miles from my home. This is the typical bridge you see every day as you travel the interstate. I know he used over 1,000 pounds of explosive, and the bridge didn't budge. It took a second time with more explosives to bring down that bridge.

Suspension bridges are the toughest, and the Mackanc Bridge is one of the largest. I have little doubt it would take every bit of ten tons of C-4, but with more than two or three attempts doing so.

[RunningWolf]

I think the point you are missing here in all of these hypothetical scenarios Vn_survivor, is that it is not going to be pulled off with a terrorist attack of driving a vehicle out onto the bridge and detonating it.

To actually bring down the bridge would require a coordinating commando type assault wherein you have a few separate teams (at least 2) one team to secure the bridge and repulse the opposition while the demolition team em placed the charges at critical points and then detonated the charges.

At the same time that is not to say that the bridge might not conceivably be unusable for several months or even require some major reconstruction to keep it viable.

W.

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

Don't worry.....I'm not missing a single real-world point about this. Nor am I missing the 'pettifoggery' being invoked upon me.

When someone puts their words into my mouth no less than 3 times in a row, TWICE after my calling him on it, I object. The ongoing deliberate and cutesy diversions from the original point of contention (that being "nonsense" to 10 tons being inadequate) demonstrate a level of integrity that few can be envious of. I've seen all sorts of weaselry in my lifetime, but this is one of the most insistent and memorable.

Aside from that, all I will say is that I (thankfully) think the US Military is probably the only entity that could in this country aquire that quantity of sufficiently HE material without setting off alarms.

I'm done with this now.

[GarySpFc]

Look, it really isn't worth us arguing over this. You don't believe me, and I don't believe you. I obviously do not have the bridge details, which hinders my making the calculations. Add to that the lack of a real life demolition of the bridge and it boils down to my opinion. I likewise do not buy into your opinions, and what is that worth? I will leave you with this final remark. I had previously considered what it would take to demo the GG Bridge, and at that time it was the largest job I could imagine. That is why the Mackanic discussion interested me. Have a nice evening.

[whenigettime]

Better living through sarcasm... thanks for the belly laugh!,

(Only officials, elected officials, and officers are to keep their eyes open. Citizens are to go about their business as if the planet is the Garden of Eden - RightWhale)