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World War IV
Commentary ^ | Sept. '04 | Norman Podhoretz

Posted on 08/12/2006 5:40:09 PM PDT by T.L.Sink

To see the context of this remarkable article I suggest one see the Wall Street Journal editorial today by Joseph Rago in opinionjournal.com

It gives a comprehensive view of America's war against international terrorism and why we must not waver even - especially! - in Iraq.

(Excerpt) Read more at commentarymagazine.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: geopolitics; globaljihad; gwot; iran; iraq; israel; podhoretz; wot; wwiv

1 posted on 08/12/2006 5:40:10 PM PDT by T.L.Sink
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To: T.L.Sink

Apparently, Iran is causing problems, but no one seems to be too concerned about it. Not us, not the Israelis, and not the europeans.

What is Iran going to be allowed to get away with next?


2 posted on 08/12/2006 5:44:31 PM PDT by Perdogg
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To: T.L.Sink

It is one thing to abhor and object to war. It is quite another to connect the stoning to death-chopping off hands-sawing off heads with a dull blade-'honor' (less) killing mass of those who want to murder you because you draw breath with that abhorrence.

Why? How can a woman who wants her sexual freedom not say "boo" about clitoridectomies or betrothals of 3 month old girls? How can a man who loves his football or his muscle car deride and otherwise shoot blanks at the real reality show-of people who would blow you to bits out of the sky because you happened to be there, or use the very technology you require for business and pleasure-to destroy your life?


To quote Tolstoy: "What then must we do?" Can we suggest to those who speak of peace that they are not really pacifists, since taking away their SUVs, jet skis, air conditioning, Nikes and digital TVs are things they would kill for?


The populace may want peace, but that's an easy concept from a Lazy Boy or a corner office. Were the water cluttered by the cement of fallen buildings in our retention ponds, the bodies of neighbors burned and strung up from the our Interstate overpasses, or the aisles at the our grocery empty of cheap produce, Angus steak and cereal choices, would the people who now cry foul cry havoc?


The iron might of those who will fight to the death to defend their principles cannot be the America of yesteryear, even if the tolerance of all things equally makes American heritage equivocal. The philosophical laziness that argues for parity between beliefs and methods ignores, no, denies this historical fact: when the Centurion shows up, it's already too late.


Veni. Vidi. Parli? Talk can neither replace or negotiate for the surety, the power of vindication: I come. I see. I conquer. Be it the Rubicon, Tigris, Yellow, Nile, Amazon or the Lilani. Vici.


3 posted on 08/12/2006 5:45:37 PM PDT by combat_boots (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.)
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To: T.L.Sink
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5 posted on 08/12/2006 5:46:43 PM PDT by AdvisorB (For a terrorist bodycount in hamistan, let the smoke clear then count the ears and divide by 2.)
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From the Bernard Lewis article in WSJ: "What is the significance of Aug. 22? This year, Aug. 22 corresponds, in the Islamic calendar, to the 27th day of the month of Rajab of the year 1427. This, by tradition, is the night when many Muslims commemorate the night flight of the prophet Muhammad on the winged horse Buraq, first to "the farthest mosque," usually identified with Jerusalem, and then to heaven and back (c.f., Koran XVII.1). This might well be deemed an appropriate date for the apocalyptic ending of Israel and if necessary of the world. It is far from certain that Mr. Ahmadinejad plans any such cataclysmic events precisely for Aug. 22. But it would be wise to bear the possibility in mind.

A passage from the Ayatollah Khomeini, quoted in an 11th-grade Iranian schoolbook, is revealing. 'I am decisively announcing to the whole world that if the world-devourers [i.e., the infidel powers] wish to stand against our religion, we will stand against their whole world and will not cease until the annihilation of all them. Either we all become free, or we will go to the greater freedom which is martyrdom. Either we shake one another's hands in joy at the victory of Islam in the world, or all of us will turn to eternal life and martyrdom. In both cases, victory and success are ours.'"


6 posted on 08/12/2006 5:48:29 PM PDT by combat_boots (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.)
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To: T.L.Sink

I was just reading Mark Steyn's column in the most recent National Review magazine. He was talking about this whole WWIII/WWIV thing and he mentions that one thing we might be doing wrong is trying to fight WW4 the same way we fought WW3 when we should be fighting it the way we fought WW1 and WW2.


7 posted on 08/12/2006 5:51:29 PM PDT by fkabuckeyesrule
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To: T.L.Sink

I was just reading Mark Steyn's column in the most recent National Review magazine. He was talking about this whole WWIII/WWIV thing and he mentions that one thing we might be doing wrong is trying to fight WW4 the same way we fought WW3 when we should be fighting it the way we fought WW1 and WW2.


8 posted on 08/12/2006 5:51:30 PM PDT by fkabuckeyesrule
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To: Perdogg

"What is Iran going to be allowed to get away with next?"

Whatever they want, IMO. So as not to offend the indigent muslim-islamist-arab trash.

Go help us all.


9 posted on 08/12/2006 5:58:40 PM PDT by butternut_squash_bisque (The recipe's at my FR HomePage. Try it!)
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To: T.L.Sink

Podhoretz extols the Bush (NeoCon) Doctrine of "democratization" of the Middle East and, at the end of the article, claims that Palestinians only crave democracy.

So, I think the election of Hamas threw a little wrench in the NeoCon dream for the Middle East and I don't hear much about the "Road Map to Peace" anymore, although SECSTATE uttered the ludicrous side-by-side-states mantra as one of her first lame responses to the current Israel vs. Hamas/Hizb'allah conflict.

The UN "peace" agreement is also pure neocon nonsense, including the $50 million U.S. aid to Lebanon, and now pressure for Israel to surrender Shabaa Farms.

Shameful.




10 posted on 08/12/2006 5:59:34 PM PDT by La Enchiladita (Make your choice and save your tears....AM YISRAEL CHAI!)
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To: T.L.Sink
"America's war against international terrorism"

This phrase is one of the ways we will lose the war we fight. It says that we are in a war against a tactic. But the tactic, terrorism, is not the enemy.

The enemy we fight uses the tactic of terrorism against us, their enemy. They have no qualms about identifying, naming and targeting us as their enemy, just as they have no qualms about using the tactic of terrorism against us. Yet, we say we are in a war against a tactic.

We won WWII because we named our enemies, labeled them, characterized and caricatured them, propagandized against them and all to simplify how we viewed them so we had no doubts about why we should beat them.

11 posted on 08/12/2006 6:01:29 PM PDT by GBA
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To: combat_boots

You see things clearly. I hope that more Americans will also find the clarity you have. We must find it or they will show it to us many times over.


13 posted on 08/12/2006 6:05:16 PM PDT by GBA
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To: Stiv Bator

"our enemies know that they can win in the long run because the next Democrat elected to the presidency will cut and run, just as they did in the Vietnam War."

They only THINK they can win...low tech. It's gonna be up to us boys and girls, when they bring it here. And you know what? We're gonna win this fight....


14 posted on 08/12/2006 6:16:38 PM PDT by combat_boots (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.)
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To: GBA

Thank you. Keep your powder and socks dry G.


16 posted on 08/12/2006 6:20:42 PM PDT by combat_boots (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.)
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To: T.L.Sink

Thanks for pointing me to those two articles.

I really enjoyed reading them.


17 posted on 08/12/2006 6:29:03 PM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: combat_boots
The populace may want peace, but that's an easy concept from a Lazy Boy or a corner office. Were the water cluttered by the cement of fallen buildings in our retention ponds, the bodies of neighbors burned and strung up from the our Interstate overpasses, or the aisles at the our grocery empty of cheap produce, Angus steak and cereal choices, would the people who now cry foul cry havoc?

The iron might of those who will fight to the death to defend their principles cannot be the America of yesteryear, even if the tolerance of all things equally makes American heritage equivocal. The philosophical laziness that argues for parity between beliefs and methods ignores, no, denies this historical fact: when the Centurion shows up, it's already too late.

These are some of the most powerful, articulate words I've ever read on why we're fighting. You should be doing this for a living (if you're not already). Seriously.

18 posted on 08/12/2006 6:35:33 PM PDT by Hardastarboard (Why isn't there an "NRA" for the rest of my rights?)
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To: T.L.Sink; Coop; Just A Nobody; jazusamo; Marine_Uncle

I really think that this is a prime example of why don't need homeschooling, but rather, why we must break the dominance of the left in the NEA and public schools. Too much of America can not comprehend these things.


19 posted on 08/12/2006 6:43:06 PM PDT by freema (Marine FRiend, 1stCuz2xRemoved, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: T.L.Sink

Long read but, well worth it. Good post.


20 posted on 08/12/2006 6:44:29 PM PDT by PhillyRepublican
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To: Hardastarboard

I agree.


21 posted on 08/12/2006 6:45:56 PM PDT by freema (Marine FRiend, 1stCuz2xRemoved, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: Stiv Bator
We are at war with islamofascism, and I don't care how far left a group of "Great Society Liberals" happened to be in the 1960's, they are with us in a seminal moment in US history when there is an existential threat facing the country. They understand the gravity of the geopolitical forces arrayed against American better than the American Prospect Buchanan types, and the leftist defeatocrat appeasers who like their eurocousins want to surrender to the islamofascists.

The neocons haven't forgotten 911, but the Buchanan people live in an alternative reality along with the leftist 910 appeasers. Most of these people blame America for all the ills of the world, but the neocons don't. Who do you want in the foxhole with you in this war against islamofascism, the Buchananite retrograde right, the looney lunatic left, or the neocons?

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22 posted on 08/12/2006 6:47:44 PM PDT by AdvisorB (For a terrorist bodycount in hamistan, let the smoke clear then count the ears and divide by 2.)
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To: Hardastarboard

Thanks, and no. I don't do this for a living. But when I came home after being on base during 9/11, I read until 4 in the am, and realized that this is war. I signed up for Free Republic and started posting, since I knew I'd never find the truth in media or from rinse, wash and repeat politicians.

The war on the ground for hearts and minds is Right Here.


23 posted on 08/12/2006 6:50:04 PM PDT by combat_boots (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.)
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To: Stiv Bator
By some definitions, Ronald Reagan was a NEO-CON.

They've been around for far longer than you appear to know.

Don't get comfortable; I don't think that you're going to be here very long.

24 posted on 08/12/2006 6:53:55 PM PDT by nopardons
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: T.L.Sink

Thank you so much for posting this. This article is just mind-boggling in its analysis of the past 5 years and the factors at work that brought us into this new era. It is immense but worth every minute it takes to read and definitely a "saver" for the future.


27 posted on 08/12/2006 8:06:15 PM PDT by Albertafriend
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To: freema
"Too much of America can not comprehend these things."
That is the plan. Keep em happy, a blackberry in each hand and an extra cell phone in each pocket, allow anything goes on campuses and lower schools, make sure everyone spends lots of time at the moron box. Provide easy credit, or just sell expensive things people used to have to work for a few years, with no payments for 12 months.
Teach children to disrepect elders and all of authority. Raise up huge numbers of minorities that are never trained how to make a living but are experts in knowing what their rights are, and you had better watch out for them as they slowly wag their asses across the street and hold up traffic.
Now. How many are even willing in the slightest, if they had a slight clue, to see what the heck really has been going on.
Do have a great upcoming day. I gotta hit the sack to get up for work.
28 posted on 08/12/2006 8:10:12 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
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To: T.L.Sink

BTTT


29 posted on 08/12/2006 8:17:13 PM PDT by Dajjal
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To: combat_boots; Jim Robinson

This is brilliant!

You will not get a Pulitzer (you write the truth), but how about a FR award for excellence in the essay form.


30 posted on 08/12/2006 8:22:07 PM PDT by eleni121 (General Draza Mihailovich: We will never forget you - the hero of World War Two)
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To: T.L.Sink; All

.

The Words...

http://www.Freerepublic.com/~ALOHARONNIE

.


31 posted on 08/12/2006 8:36:50 PM PDT by ALOHA RONNIE ("ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer/Veteran-"WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965 http://www.lzxray.com)
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To: freema

I think you're right, freema. By the way, if you want an excellent book on the subject it's "The Worm in the Apple: How the Teachers' Unions Are Destroying American Education" -- by Peter Brimelow.


32 posted on 08/12/2006 8:42:42 PM PDT by T.L.Sink
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To: fkabuckeyesrule
one thing we might be doing wrong is trying to fight WW4 the same way we fought WW3 when we should be fighting it the way we fought WW1 and WW2

With a touch of the best of the Crusades thrown in for good measure.

33 posted on 08/12/2006 8:56:07 PM PDT by Colorado Doug
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To: Marine_Uncle

If I get going on that subject, I'll clear the room-
I've done my share of cleaning leftists out of schools.
It really should one of the top priorities of this nation, and is, with this President, thank God.


34 posted on 08/13/2006 3:59:15 AM PDT by freema (Marine FRiend, 1stCuz2xRemoved, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: T.L.Sink

I could write the book ; )


35 posted on 08/13/2006 4:00:57 AM PDT by freema (Marine FRiend, 1stCuz2xRemoved, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: eleni121

Thank you. I am honored.


36 posted on 08/13/2006 4:27:56 AM PDT by combat_boots (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.)
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To: freema

The system took a long time to put in place. It will take a long time to remove if at all possible. Stalin's usefull little idiots now abound everywhere.


37 posted on 08/13/2006 5:12:02 AM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
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To: combat_boots
#3

Nice!

38 posted on 08/13/2006 5:19:06 AM PDT by DoctorMichael (A wall first. A wall now.)
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To: Stiv Bator

If everyone that got told they wouldn't stay long on FR, left, there wouldn't be a FR.

There is no purpose to debate and discussion if there are no different viewpoints.

As has been said many times before, I may not agree with you, but I will fight for your right to state your views.

I learn nothing from those I totally agree with. But I learn much from those that I don't.

It is possible he was indicating that you might become dissatisfied with the attitude towards Neocons and decide you don't like FR. Hopefully you won't.


Welcome to FR.


39 posted on 08/13/2006 5:22:40 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (PARTY LIKE IT's August 21, 2006 !!!)
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To: Stiv Bator
When you talk about neocons deserting Donald Rumsfeld, you're talking about Bill Kristol, one of the foremost neocons, opposing Rumsfeld because of the Defense Secretary's handling of force modernization at the Pentagon. With the exception of Kristol and his Weekly Standard magazine, what neocons have "turned on him?" That the neocons were unhappy about Rumsfeld's handling of Moqtadr al-Sadr there can be little doubt, but most conservatives, including myself, were unhappy that Rumsfeld and the Pentagon Brass opposed offing the fat little shia instigator three years ago. If we would killed him back then, we wouldn't have seen 200 thousand Sadr supporters marching through Sadr City two weeks ago with chants of death to Israel and America. Though I'm disappointed with that event, I still support Rummy and am glad he is still at the Pentagon.

I think you may be a victim of liberal/leftist/RAT brainwashing about the "evil cabal" of "hebraic speaking" neocons. That this is racist attack on a great group of pro-American patriot , there can be little doubt.

If you have an open mind, and the fact that you are a conservative posting on one of the great conservative sites attests that you are open to the facts, I would ask you to read Douglas Murray's, "Neoconservatism: why we need it." It's a great book that will answer any questions that you have about neoconservatism.

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40 posted on 08/13/2006 7:36:42 AM PDT by AdvisorB (For a terrorist bodycount in hamistan, let the smoke clear then count the ears and divide by 2.)
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