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What Israel has done for US lately
The Jerusalem Post ^ | 13AUG06 | YOSSI KUPERWASSER

Posted on 08/12/2006 9:20:24 PM PDT by familyop

Many pundits in Washington, among them supporters of Israel, anticipated better results from the month-long war against Hizbullah.

They were hoping for Israel to put Iran and Syria on the defensive by using IDF military might to eradicate Hizbullah much faster. Some have already concluded that this was an opportunity squandered.

The truth is that the last month has not been "a walk in the park" for Israel. We have been fighting a ruthless, well-armed and well-trained, albeit small, army that has spent the last six years preparing for this war while we have been busy on many other fronts.

Nevertheless, those in Washington who are disappointed with the results should consider a list of dividends that America has received from our campaign: First and foremost, Israel has sent a loud and clear message that any terrorist entity that carries out an act of aggression will pay a heavy price.

Moreover, we have proven that a "spoiled" Western society, as Hizbullah perceived Israel, can withstand barrages of rocket-fire on its civilians and still maintain an unfaltering resolution to stand up and fight.

Second, by exerting heavy military pressure on Hizbullah and the Lebanese government, we forced the collapse of Nasrallah's strategy that was based on unaccountability and terror-deterrence.

In so doing, we created the necessary conditions to compel the international community to take long-overdue measures to implement earlier UN resolutions that the free world hopes will ultimately turn Lebanon into an accountable, sovereign nation.

If this happens, Syria and Iran would be the main losers of this war. Security Council Resolution 1701 approved Friday is the direct result of that pressure, and now it is up to the international community to ensure that it is implemented.

Third, we helped people across the globe world understand the extent of the threat that Iranian radicalism poses to the entire free world, and why it is so important to prevent it from becoming a nuclear power.

Fourth, we exposed Syria's role in supporting terror - both by facilitating the transport of Iranian weapons to Hizbullah, and by supplying its own heavy, long-range rockets and other weaponry to this terror organization. You might be surprised to know that until this war, the international community had refused to acknowledge that Syria supplied these rockets to Hizbullah.

Fifth, we have shown how irresponsible the Russians were in supplying Syria with state-of-the-art weapons that have ended up in the hands of Hizbullah.

And finally, we helped the world to better understand the dangers posed by Hizbullah's fundamentalist brainwashing machine. In terms of the systematic and deliberate killing of civilians, the difference between Iranian-sponsored Hizbullah and Nazi Germany is that while the SS sought to conceal its deeds - including from German society - Hizbullah proudly proclaims its successes in killing Jewish civilians. This stream of distorted Islamist extremism is cut from the same cloth of twisted ideology to which the planners of the thwarted terror attacks on airliners flying out of London subscribe.

This is a short list of what Israel has achieved in the last month. These significant, concrete advances should go a long way to satisfying those wondering what Israel has done lately for those who live in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

The writer is a brigadier-general and former head of IDF Military Intelligence's research department.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Israel; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 2006israelwar; ally; allyisrael; fascists; hezbollah; idf; iran; iraq; islamic; israel; lebanon; military; on; rebuttalagainstnazis; syria; terror; war; washington
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It's difficult to understand the motives/ignorance of those who say or imply that they believed that the job could be done in four weeks. The IDF continues its expanded and intensified mission until Hezbollah stops attacking. Nasrallah said that his terrorist army would continue to fight until Israel leaves Lebanon. Do you get it now?

Essayons

1 posted on 08/12/2006 9:20:26 PM PDT by familyop
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To: Sabramerican; Torie


Ping


2 posted on 08/12/2006 9:21:54 PM PDT by onyx (1 Billion Muslims -- "if" only 10% are radical, that's 100 Million who want to kill us.)
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To: SJackson; Salem; Alouette

Ping.


3 posted on 08/12/2006 9:22:19 PM PDT by familyop (Essayons)
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To: familyop

BS.

Israel showed that it didn't have the leadership to do what was needed.

It was a candyass response that Bill Clinton would have authorized.

This article is a prime example of "putting lipstick on a pig".


4 posted on 08/12/2006 9:24:41 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: familyop
In spite of the Pat Buchananite whiners, the dirty secret is that the US makes a killing in it's relationship with Israel.

Through the acquisition of intelligence, military and civilian technology tranfers/improvements and military training alone more than make up for the US aid budget to Israel.

It's a steal for the US.

5 posted on 08/12/2006 9:27:55 PM PDT by zarf
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To: Dog Gone

US pressure prompts delay of [Israel's] offensive ("We do not want escalations" - White House)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1680983/posts

Israel Asks U.S. to Ship Rockets With Wide Blast-State Department seeks to delay supply
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1681771/posts


6 posted on 08/12/2006 9:28:34 PM PDT by familyop (Essayons)
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To: familyop
The article brought up an interesting point. In a way, Islamofascists are worse than the Nazis because the terrorists are proud of killing Jews and would kill them in front of everyone to see.

The Nazis weren't quite like that, ordinary German people did not gas the Jews while the typical Muslim might volunteer to do so.

The concentration camps were by large concealed from the German society while Al-Jazeera would have their film crews in place.

7 posted on 08/12/2006 9:30:35 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican (Everyone that doesn't like what America and President Bush has done for Iraq can all go to HELL)
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To: Dog Gone

American Jews stand by Israel
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1678564/posts

What the British Jews think of Israel's war
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1678566/posts


8 posted on 08/12/2006 9:31:31 PM PDT by familyop (Essayons)
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To: familyop

I'm confused. Why do I need links to articles I don't care about?


9 posted on 08/12/2006 9:33:22 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: familyop
Seems rather foolish to me to expect someone else to fight our wars for us. (Although the euro-weenies expect it as a matter of course, since we fought and won the Cold War for them.)

Just proves my old man was right. "A man who can't shoot his own dog, when its required, don't deserve the dog, and ain't much of a man, either"
10 posted on 08/12/2006 9:33:34 PM PDT by MCCRon58 (A man unwilling to fight for freedom and liberty, deserve neither. (Ain't much of a man, either))
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To: familyop
In so doing, we created the necessary conditions to compel the international community to take long-overdue measures to implement earlier UN resolutions that the free world hopes will ultimately turn Lebanon into an accountable, sovereign nation.

Wishful thinking. UN resolutions are worth less than Kofi's monogrammed toilet paper.

11 posted on 08/12/2006 9:39:35 PM PDT by operation clinton cleanup
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To: familyop
"If this happens, Syria and Iran would be the main losers of this war. Security Council Resolution 1701 approved Friday is the direct result of that pressure, and now it is up to the international community to ensure that it is implemented."

The only answer that is acceptable is to kill every last member of Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon. To hell with SCR 1701. Please understand, PLEASE - that the international community is composed of thieves, murderers, and perverts, and they would rather see Israel die. They don't give a .... about law and civilization.

"Third, we helped people across the globe world understand the extent of the threat that Iranian radicalism poses to the entire free world, and why it is so important to prevent it from becoming a nuclear power."

Look, the people across the globe clearly understand the threat of Iranian radicalism. The United Nations supports it, despite their resolutions. They don't care. And once again, they would rather see Israel destroyed and have its people put in gas chambers. The only hope Israel has, and this is the hope of the United States, is the complete destruction of Hezbollah, and I mean every last one of them killed, by combat operations or summary firing squads. Wake up beloved children of God, wake up and destroy evil. DO NOT TRUST THE UNITED NATIONS!!

12 posted on 08/12/2006 9:40:32 PM PDT by Enterprise (Let's not enforce laws that are already on the books, let's just write new laws we won't enforce.)
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To: familyop

Many people do not understand warfare. Look how long it took us to achieve rather limited goals in Korea, and at what cost! And again in Viet Nam many blame the politicians, and certainly there is blame to go around. However, our military strategy was incapable of stopping supplies and men from flowing south. To do that we would have had to expand the ground war into Laos, Cambodia and Thailand. It wasn't in the cards.

I think that a quite significant victory against Hizbullah is in the making here. It will not be absolute or final, however. There will not be an end to the overall conflict until the Iranian Islamic Republic is destroyed.


13 posted on 08/12/2006 9:40:51 PM PDT by claudiustg (Equivalence is depravity.)
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To: familyop

>We have been fighting a ruthless, well-armed and well-trained, albeit small,
>army ...

... that dresses like and hides amongst civillians.


14 posted on 08/12/2006 9:41:24 PM PDT by ROTB
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To: Dog Gone
"BS.
Israel showed that it didn't have the leadership to do what was needed.
It was a candyass response that Bill Clinton would have authorized.
This article is a prime example of 'putting lipstick on a pig'.
"

"I'm confused. Why do I need links to articles I don't care about?"

Your use of only rhetoric and lack of care about links to facts is obvious. They're for other readers to compare with your comments.

Here's some more background information. Although I've been a Republican voter for a long time, I do disagree on foreign policy with the appeasing "elite" who make the decisions on foreign policy and defense.

Bush and Sharon disagree over Israel's future
Wednesday June 27, 2001
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,513410,00.html

President Bush Calls for New Palestinian Leadership
The Rose Garden
June 24, 2002
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/06/20020624-3.html
"So I challenge Israel to take concrete steps to support the emergence of a viable, credible Palestinian state."
[. . .]
"The United States, the international donor community and the World Bank stand ready to work with Palestinians on a major project of economic reform and development. The United States, the EU, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund are willing to oversee reforms in Palestinian finances, encouraging transparency and independent auditing."

Quartet Joint Statement
Summary
July 16, 2002: Text of a joint statement issued by the "Quartet" (United Nations, Russian Federation, the United States and the European Union) following their meeting in New York
[Document behind the link.]
http://europa-eu-un.org/articles/sk/article_1489_sk.htm
"The new international Task Force on Reform, which is comprised of representatives of the U.S., EU, UN Secretary General, Russia, Japan, Norway, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, and which works under the auspices of the Quartet, will strive to develop and implement a comprehensive action plan for reform."

Most Americans Support Right of Jews to Live and Build in Judea-Samaria
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/927783/posts
June 10, 2003
"By a margin of nearly five to one, Americans oppose the Bush administration's demand to halt all further Jewish construction in Judea-Samaria (the West Bank) and Gaza . . . The poll, carried out by John McLaughlin & Associates, surveyed a scientific sample of 1,000 American adults on May 21, 2003.

Sharon presses Putin to drop UN resolution on road map
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1013908/posts
4 November 2003

Rice: Israel Must Withdraw from More than Gaza and Samaria
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1333354/posts
February 1, 2005

ALTERNATE (includes mention of UN Res. 242: Some of you asked about why our US Government is funding the Palestinian Authority. The reason is that much of the rest of the world wants the "road map" to continue happening, and our Government is appeasing those obsessed nations.

President Bush Calls for New Palestinian Leadership
The Rose Garden
June 24, 2002
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/06/20020624-3.html
"The United States, the international donor community and the World Bank stand ready to work with Palestinians on a major project of economic reform and development. The United States, the EU, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund are willing to oversee reforms in Palestinian finances, encouraging transparency and independent auditing."

Quartet Joint Statement
Summary
July 16, 2002: Text of a joint statement issued by the "Quartet" (United Nations, Russian Federation, the United States and the European Union) following their meeting in New York
[Document behind the link.]
http://europa-eu-un.org/articles/sk/article_1489_sk.htm
"The new international Task Force on Reform, which is comprised of representatives of the U.S., EU, UN Secretary General, Russia, Japan, Norway, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, and which works under the auspices of the Quartet, will strive to develop and implement a comprehensive action plan for reform."

...little more background material:

Rice: Israel Must Withdraw from More than Gaza and Samaria
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1333354/posts
February 1, 2005

Bush and Sharon disagree over Israel's future
Wednesday June 27, 2001
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,513410,00.html

Sharon presses Putin to drop UN resolution on road map
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1013908/posts
4 November 2003

In 1967, the leaders of our various nations showed their vanity with UN Security Council Resolution 242. They again ignored the Mandate (binding world agreement on the Jewish Homeland) and demanded that Israel give land to the Arab nations. We can go back further than that, though. The "road map" is really not a new thing, but our leaders will go on saying that it was Israel's idea all along. The canard of blaming Israel in advance for its own destruction by other nations/religions goes back through a couple of thousand years of history.

2004 Republican Party Platform (see "Road Map")
15 posted on 08/12/2006 9:41:56 PM PDT by familyop (Essayons)
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To: claudiustg
Your comment #13 was a good synopsis and comparison, IMO.
16 posted on 08/12/2006 9:44:11 PM PDT by familyop (Essayons)
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To: familyop

They did not have to agree to stop fighting in four weeks.


17 posted on 08/12/2006 9:45:25 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: familyop

I call this the Muslim missile war.

1- The Islamics fire rockets and missiles at Israel then hides behind human shields and civilian casualties when Israel attacks them from the air

2- When Israel attacks the Hizb'Allah from the ground the anti tank missiles are deployed and negate the traditional advantage armor gives you. I give Hizb'Allah credit for using anti tank missiles extensively. Not just against tanks. They were used as enhanced RPGs

3- 30 Israeli tanks destroyed or severely disabled PLUS half of all IDF deaths were from hits on tanks


18 posted on 08/12/2006 9:48:40 PM PDT by dennisw (Confucius say man who go through turnstile sideways going to Bangkok)
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To: familyop

Okay, whatever.

You counter my statement with a bunch of links that are apparently going to counter my statement. You won't or can't do so yourself in your own words.

I don't have time for that nonsense. I'm not going to research your response to me.


19 posted on 08/12/2006 9:51:12 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: familyop

I think the Israeli general whom Olmert fired thought the job could be done in far less than 4 weeks. OTOH, the way Olmert's going about it, stop, start, hesitate, go - who knows how long it could take?


20 posted on 08/12/2006 9:52:49 PM PDT by Sam Cree (Don't mix alcopops and ufo's)
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To: Just mythoughts

I agree with a lot of this. I have been realizing that democracies require will of the people, and I don't think Bush could now raise a finger against Iran without howls of protest. In a way that poses some danger to us.


21 posted on 08/12/2006 9:57:43 PM PDT by ClaireSolt (.)
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To: ClaireSolt
Unfortunately I think you are correct, Iran will have to attack US first before President Bush could get a consensus to stop their madness.

The Soros paid anti-war movement has been quite successful in trivializing these terrorists.
22 posted on 08/12/2006 10:02:20 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: familyop

First what were these other things the IDF was busy with? Undoing the damage of Oslo in the West Bank. Then kicking Jews out of Gaza and smashing in some heads in Amona. Maybe if the nation and the IDF had its priorities in better order it would have had the ability to prepare for this. Of course if it had not unilaterally withdrawn from Lebanon this would not have been necessary. Olmert of course is learning the lesson well by planning to appease Hezballah and pull out of the West Bank.


23 posted on 08/12/2006 10:03:00 PM PDT by Honestfreedom
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To: MCCRon58
"Seems rather foolish to me to expect someone else to fight our wars for us. (Although the euro-weenies expect it as a matter of course, since we fought and won the Cold War for them.)

Just proves my old man was right. 'A man who can't shoot his own dog, when its required, don't deserve the dog, and ain't much of a man, either'
"

I couldn't have said that better.
24 posted on 08/12/2006 10:10:19 PM PDT by familyop ("Either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists." --President Bush)
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To: MinorityRepublican

You might want to check out a book called "Hitler's WIlling Executioners" before you give the average German a pass.


25 posted on 08/12/2006 10:28:08 PM PDT by Darkwolf377 (http://www.dansimmons.com/news/message/2006_04.htm)
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To: Darkwolf377
You might want to check out a book called "Hitler's WIlling Executioners" before you give the average German a pass.

I'll check it out. Before I do, however who do you think are more rabid? The Nazis or Islamofascists?

26 posted on 08/12/2006 10:33:11 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican (Everyone that doesn't like what America and President Bush has done for Iraq can all go to HELL)
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To: MinorityRepublican
I definitely agree with your characterization of Muslim's being rabid, but at the same time, having read about the post-Wilsonian 14 Points Germany, I don't think Hitler was able to rise so fast because the German people were casual about restoring their country to greatness.

I think for whatever reasons the Nazis were more methodical. To be crass, I believe the Nazis THOUGHT about what they were doing more, which made them such an immense threat so quickly.

I think if the Muslims--oh, excuse me, the 'terrorists' since all Muslims aren't blah blah blah--were as intelligent, or had the stability of a nation as a base, we'd be in a much hotter war than we are now. I think their need for these splashy attacks is as much about making themselves feel big. But their intense concentration on media and propaganda is certainly a trait they share with the Nazis.

To answer your question in brief, I think the Nazis had focus; the Islamofascists have passion.

27 posted on 08/12/2006 10:37:37 PM PDT by Darkwolf377 (http://www.dansimmons.com/news/message/2006_04.htm)
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To: familyop

The truth is that the last month has not been "a walk in the park" for Israel. We have been fighting a ruthless, well-armed and well-trained, albeit small, army that has spent the last six years preparing for this war while we have been busy on many other fronts.



Nah that AIN'T the truth. Israel has yet to fully mobilize. They are partying and carrying on in Tel Aviv like nothing like a war is going on. In light of the facts that Iran next year will have nukes, Israel should have called up all its reserves and gone WW2 on Lebanon Syria and Iran.

Instead they are using KGC warfighting and reaping the corresponding negative results.


28 posted on 08/12/2006 10:37:47 PM PDT by TomasUSMC ((FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.))
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To: Dog Gone
Truth time,Israel lost big time and they got to be dancing in the streets in Tehran. Hezbollah can now say that the Israelis couldn`t beat them. And, the nuts are right. The nut factory can also say that America is just like Israel and that if the killing continues in Iraq, we will cut and run, just like our good pals, the Israelis.
GWB hopes somebody will take the knife out of his back.
29 posted on 08/12/2006 10:41:57 PM PDT by bybybill (`IF TH E RATS WIN, WE LOSE)
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To: claudiustg

"However, our military strategy was incapable of stopping supplies and men from flowing south."

That's pure bullsh*t. It was a political war where Johnson would not allow the military to win it. And it could have been done very quickly by bombing Haiphong harbor, the Red River dykes, and the railways by cutting off they're supplies from Russia.


30 posted on 08/12/2006 10:55:27 PM PDT by jwh_Denver (I can't beat em but I ain't joining them either.)
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To: jwh_Denver

No, the military brass told Johnson and then Nixon that they could interdict the flow of men and supplies into South Viet Nam with airpower and that was simply not possible.

Sure you could always widen the war, but that wasn't what the brass hats were pushing.


31 posted on 08/12/2006 11:16:29 PM PDT by claudiustg (Equivalence is depravity.)
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To: Honestfreedom

"First what were these other things the IDF was busy with? Undoing the damage of Oslo in the West Bank. Then kicking Jews out of Gaza and smashing in some heads in Amona. Maybe if the nation and the IDF had its priorities in better order it would have had the ability to prepare for this. Of course if it had not unilaterally withdrawn from Lebanon this would not have been necessary. Olmert of course is learning the lesson well by planning to appease Hezballah and pull out of the West Bank."


32 posted on 08/12/2006 11:27:12 PM PDT by Yehuda ("Land of the free, THANKS TO THE BRAVE!" (Choke on it, pinkos!))
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To: Yehuda

BUMP THAT!


33 posted on 08/12/2006 11:27:28 PM PDT by Yehuda ("Land of the free, THANKS TO THE BRAVE!" (Choke on it, pinkos!))
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To: familyop

" American Jews stand by Israel "
Not in NY City they don't


34 posted on 08/12/2006 11:31:49 PM PDT by sonic109
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To: TomasUSMC
"Nah that AIN'T the truth. Israel has yet to fully mobilize. They are partying and carrying on in Tel Aviv like nothing like a war is going on. In light of the facts that Iran next year will have nukes, Israel should have called up all its reserves and gone WW2 on Lebanon Syria and Iran."

Yeah, then [shiver, shiver--waaaaaaa!], we wouldn't have to do it for ourselves.

US pressure prompts delay of [Israel's] offensive ("We do not want escalations" - White House)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1680983/posts

Israel Asks U.S. to Ship Rockets With Wide Blast-State Department seeks to delay supply
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1681771/posts

...truth of the matter is that all will have to go, sooner or later--even those who go with our Navy, where having sex is allowed. [SNICKER, SNICKER]
35 posted on 08/12/2006 11:35:57 PM PDT by familyop (Essayons)
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To: claudiustg

The military could only operate under strict parameters so what they were pushing had to be within these parameters. N. Vietnam had to have everything shipped in and the US military was not allowed to stop the supplies at the source. Had these sources been been bombed out of existence the movement of NVA and equipment is moot.

Defense contractors told Johnson they wanted a war and Johnson said "if you want a war then by God I'll give you a war."

An unwinable war at that.


36 posted on 08/12/2006 11:36:21 PM PDT by jwh_Denver (I can't beat em but I ain't joining them either.)
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To: familyop

It's easy to be armchair generals. Personally, I have problems with all the news coverage. Why is "War" entertainment? It was like watching a fantastic war "game." We see where the troops are or headed to, the blasts of the bombs, coverage of damage, casualties and victims. I think we are becoming desensitized to the gore and death. And I read that Nasrallah used television coverage to help plan
his moves. That's insane!`

Both sides are fighting for their own survival. I
totally support Israel and have read more would have been accomplished if Hezballah hadn't of had the past 6 years to build bombs. As Israel is in it so deep now let them finish the job irregardless of how long it takes. These are terrorists not game pieces. There are obstacles Israel hadn't counted on but know about now. They can do it and will do it if we let them. All that said, if this "peace" process continues I feel it is definately WRONG, and seriously offensive to let Nazrallah have a say in anything.
Would we force the LAPD and gang members to declare a truce?


37 posted on 08/12/2006 11:37:47 PM PDT by Recall
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To: TomasUSMC

BTW, some of the IDF units are at the Litani River.


38 posted on 08/12/2006 11:40:07 PM PDT by familyop (Essayons)
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To: ClaireSolt
BINGO!

On another thread you mentioned that you are reading IMPERIAL GRUNTS by Robert D. Kaplan. I too found his book to be instructive and, in keeping with what you have said above, I invite your attention to his remarks on page 368-369:

the lesson was clear: the more subtle and cautious its application of power, the greater would be America's sustaining impact. The United States could hold sway over the world only quietly, off camera, so to speak.

To be sure, the decision to invest Al-Fallujah and then pull out just as victory was within reach demonstrated both the fecklessness and the incoherence of the Bush administration. While a case can be made for either launching a full-scale Marine assault or continuing the previous policy of individual surgical strikes, a case cannot be made for launching a full-scale assault only to reverse it because of political pressures that were easily foreseeable in the first place. But in larger historical terms the Al Falluja drama also demonstrated the weakness of nation-states against the thundering new forces of a global media. Take Al Jazeera, the Independent, Qatar-based network whose characterizations of the fighting added to the political pressure on the White House to end the offensive. Al-Jazeera was itself an example of the very political freedom that the US sought to encourage in the Arab world. The more we succeeded in our quest for open societies, the more those open societies would seek to restrain us and consequently the more quiet and devious or military behavior would have to be

The American Empire of the early 21st century depended upon the tissue of intangibles that was threatened, rather than invigorated, by the naked exercise of power. Or as Army Colonel Tom Wilhelm had told me in Mongolia, an empire of behind the-the-scenes relationships was all that was possible anymore.

All of this about the fiasco at Al-Falluja is eerily predictive of this Israeli fiasco in Lebanon, which I predicted several days ago. The Israelis did not know whether to stop or start, whether to fight on the ground or from the air, and while they dithered the world rose not in support of Israel but in universal condemnation of it. This is precisely the way not to fight a war on terror.

I would suggest you take a look at Ricks', FIASCO, which I've been recommending to you for some time, it is just reached the number one position in the New York Times nonfiction list and it gives a theoretical framework for the same conclusions that Kaplan has reached anecdotally in IMPERIAL GRUNTS.

We must find an alternative to our failed strategy of big army, big footprint counterinsurgency operations.


39 posted on 08/12/2006 11:45:31 PM PDT by nathanbedford ("I like to legislate. I feel I've done a lot of good." Sen. Robert Byrd)
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To: bybybill

Truth time,Israel lost big time and they got to be dancing in the streets in Tehran. ==

Impossible. 5 mlns nation of lazies vs 70 mlns fanatocally enstrenthen nation.

If Israel had the technological advantage like if its foes carried bows and axes then it coul dbe. But when Iran has almost same as Israel and even in bigger amounts then Israel has no chances.

Hezbollah can now say that the Israelis couldn`t beat them. And, the nuts are right. ==

Agreed.

Strangely muslims learn how to fight. I think it started from Kosovo. Who teached muslims there you know. Later in turned to Chechnya. I think that some chechen islamists and arabs who fought there returned to ME as the instructors. Russia did one fine thing. She found muslims who fight for her. Now it is muslim vs muslims there. SO many islamists went out.

The nut factory can also say that America is just like Israel and that if the killing continues in Iraq, we will cut and run, just like our good pals, the Israelis.
GWB hopes somebody will take the knife out of his back. ==

Iraq cause was about to gather all world islamists at one place and eliminate them there. It worked but the cure exacerbated the decease. Iraq produced more islamists then it was eliminated.

America and Israel cann't fight with whole Islam world alone. The EU, Russia and China don't participate in it. All of them has big muslim communities on thier territories.

America and Isarel cann't find muslims who will fight for them and turn the conflict to intermuslim recount(as Russia did in Chechnya). Without that what else left is just fortify against muslims and wait.


40 posted on 08/13/2006 12:32:27 AM PDT by RusIvan ("THINK!" the motto of IBM)
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To: RusIvan

"5 mlns nation of lazies vs 70 mlns fanatocally enstrenthen nation."

This statement bespeaks a mind completely addled with prejudice and ignorance. It is so at odds with the truth that only a lunatic or a vicious anti-Semite would even half believe it.

"If Israel had the technological advantage like if its foes carried bows and axes then it coul dbe. But when Iran has almost same as Israel and even in bigger amounts then Israel has no chances."

This is utter nonsense. Israel has fought on many occasions when the Arabs have had a far better advantage (as in 1948) or an equal advantage (as in 1967 and 1973) and still come out on top.

The difficulties faced by Israel are a direct result of having to fight a war in which her opponents have absolutely no problem with using civilians as human shields. When your enemy fires missiles from hospitals and builds bunkers directly under schools it becomes incredibly difficult to fight and win - if you are a decent and civilised nation like Israel that is. Israel could not do what Russia did in Chechenya. Russia's armed forces were badly equipped, badly trained, unmotivated, half-starved and none too bright - but they were able to win because they committed indiscriminate slaughter. This is something that neither Israel nor the United States can possibly do.

I do not see the problem with the Arab nations or even Iran or Syria. The problem lies with Russia which is providing arms willy-nilly to nations like Syria and allowing Iran to develop nuclear weapons. The greatest threat to Israel and indeed the entire world comes from the ex-KGB thug who is currently running Russia. How bitterly ironic it is that the nation which developed the Pale of Settlement and the pogrom and whose anti-Semitic policies set in train the emigration of millions of Jews should now be so deeply involved in the attempt to destroy the State of Israel.


41 posted on 08/13/2006 1:26:15 AM PDT by Basel2005
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To: RusIvan
RusIvan

Previously posted, but what you said:

I even remember posting about the time of the invasion of Iraq my hope that the international inspectors would find weapons of mass distraction because, "God help me"(acknowledging that I thought we must go to war) I thought it imperative that we invade Iraq and achieve regime change. I took this position not so that we could impose a Jeffersonian democracy on Iraq but because I feared then, and continue to fear now , that the gravest danger to the United States consists of a terrorist group, with a suicide bent, striking our homeland with a weapon of mass destruction especially an atomic weapon. I consider this threat to be nothing less than an existential threat to the very survival of the Republic. I have many times posted my fear that once such a weapon is used in the heartland, our resolve will crumble and the left will force us into appeasement which ultimately will mean the destruction of our democracy. The reaction of the Spanish to the terrorist attacks on their country is evidence of how easily the left can exploit these disasters to seize power and when they do so, they will embark on appeasement. Lenin's peace with Germany is also instructive in this regard, the left will do anything to further its own quest for power.

So, I believe that it was necessary to effect a regime change in Iraq to prevent this bloody dictator from passing weapons of mass distraction off to a crazed terrorist group. The fact that weapons of mass destruction have not been found, at least according to popular belief, have weakened the rationale for this policy, but not fatally, because the sanction regime was crumbling and about to give way entirely and Saddam would then have been free, with his restored access to petrodollars, to fund the acquisition of weapons of mass destruction. I have no doubt he would have done so if left in power, although one cannot be sure that he would have passed them off to terrorists.

I say that the absence of WMD's weakens this policy rationale but is not fatal to it. But it has been fatal to the Bush doctrine, which, if not entirely dead, is certainly comatose and cannot be revived apart from another massive strike on our homeland which I believe is coming and which I pray will not be done with WMD's. In addition to being fatal to the Bush doctrine of preemption, the absence of the WMD's has been nearly fatal to America's moral position around the world. This becomes terribly important as the world perceives America, rightly or wrongly, to be unable to cope with the insurgency in Iraq. It becomes terribly important as Israel is seen to be unable to cope with the situation in Lebanon and the world identifies Israel as America's puppet.

The result of all this is that America, inextricably joined at the hip with Israel in the world's perception, is seen as a thug and an inept thug to boot. The invasion of Lebanon is seen as a ghastly replay of the invasion of Iraq, unjustified and unsuccessful.

Now I would not normally be so terribly concerned about world opinion if the world situation were different. But three grim realities confronts us, and we have markedly wounded our ability to deal with them because we have lost world opinion. They are:

1. The proliferation of nuclear weapons to North Korea and Iran; the former having demonstrated a historical proclivity to sell to anyone every weapon they ever possessed, and the latter being a regime wholly given over to a bizarre and cataclysmic Muslim fundamentalism which could be even so extreme as to deliberately provoke gotterdammerung. Iran has a history of funding murderous terrorists and it has openly called for the destruction of the United States, not to mention Israel. It must be the primary foreign policy objective of the United States to prevent Iran from obtaining atomic weapons. Because America has lost many of its allies (see the next paragraph), and seen the Bush doctrine die, we cannot organize the world for really effective sanctions and we will be forced to a position of appeasement or war, and war which we must conduct alone, with attenuated forces, and the prospect of $100 oil. We simply do not have the resources to occupy Iran in the fashion that we have occupied Iraq, and we have no allies to help us do it. Can air power alone disrupts Iran's nuclear program? Clearly air power alone cannot effect regime change in Iran and so cannot grant us a permanent solution.

2. We are involved in a world war of generational duration for the preservation of the Republic as we know it. I have already alluded to a propensity of the left to appease, this has two fields of play: the first is the world at large, but especially Europe, from which we will ultimately be left alone as one nation after another is peeled off like Spain into the oblivion of appeasement and neutrality and ultimate thralldom. This is not inevitable, of course, but it is the strategic aim of the Moslem fanatics. The second field of play is our own homeland which is half blue and which is the practical equivalent of Europe and it is just as vulnerable to the sirens of appeasement as Spain. We are always only one election away from being Europe. If the stars misalign, if Europe succumbs, if America turns blue, then we are unlikely to be equal to the challenge of atomic terrorism (or to the challenge of a nuclearizing Iran). We cannot win this war alone with one arm is already tied behind our back (read Democratic Party) at home. We must lead the entire world against islamo-fundamentalism. We simply cannot win alone. Our primary weapon in this war must be intelligence-an area which events have demonstrated us to be willfully inadequate. Without the cooperation of the intelligence agencies of virtually every country of the world, I do not see how the Western world can prevent terrorist attacks in their respective homelands with weapons of mass destruction. When that happens, the game is over. It must be stopped before it happens and that means we must have the intelligence to stop it and that means we must have the cooperation of virtually every country in the world (especially Muslim countries) to coordinate every scrap of technological and human intelligence. It is impossible to assess how well the administration is doing this job since the rude awakening of 9/11. We can only say that we have not yet been struck at home.

3. The third reality, which I suspect you are not going to like, is the hard truth that this war against Muslim terrorism can only be won by Muslims. Certainly the amen chorus for Israel will not like this reality at all. America must have its own war aims, just as Israel had its own aims when it suborned Pollock to spy against us. This hard truth means that in the war against Muslim terrorism, Muslim allies are even more important than European allies and certainly more important to victory than Israel. That portion of the Muslim world which retains rationality must be cultivated and deployed against the part gone mad. In a war which turns on intelligence, it will be the Muslim world which provides it. In a world with 1.4 billion Muslims we cannot hope to prevail by exchanging casualties with madmen. We must deploy the Muslim world against the Muslim world. This can only happen if the rational part comes to believe that its own survival depends on extinguishing the crazy part. Finally, we cannot hope to mount a campaign by Muslims against fanatic Muslims so long as it's so unpopular in the Muslim world to do so that any leader who attempts a jihad against islamo fascism would be immediately taken down.

These are strategic truths which have to do with America winning America's war against terrorism. Nowhere among them do we see any benefit from Israel's war in Lebanon and very little from our own war in Iraq. I wish this were otherwise. In fact, the longer these two wars persist, the worse our strategic position becomes. So far in Lebanon the Israelis have confirmed what the Americans have betrayed in Iraq: Western technology is not sufficiently superior to suicide tactics in a war of insurgency. Hence America and Israel have lost their aura of invincibility while gaining virtually nothing in these campaigns. (In the political world of policy making, perception is everything. So 2600 war deaths in three years fighting in Iraq seem excessive to an American public which has been conditioned by the left-wing press. This perception will remain until the next strike on the homeland.)

In Iraq, America may well have succeeded in legitimatizing a Shi'ite regime whose writ may ultimately run, with its connection to the Hezbollah, from the mountains of Pakistan to the shores of the Mediterranean. The war in Lebanon may have made it impossible for any sane Muslim leader to openly cooperate with the United States of America.


42 posted on 08/13/2006 1:26:58 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("I like to legislate. I feel I've done a lot of good." Sen. Robert Byrd)
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To: bybybill

"Truth time,Israel lost big time and they got to be dancing in the streets in Tehran."

And in bybyill's house.


43 posted on 08/13/2006 1:29:20 AM PDT by Basel2005
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To: nathanbedford; All

"Certainly the amen chorus for Israel will not like this reality at all"

To everyone else. Simply read this sentence and ignore the rest. You know where he's coming from, so why waste your time.


44 posted on 08/13/2006 1:32:58 AM PDT by Basel2005
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To: Basel2005

How bitterly ironic it is that the nation which developed the Pale of Settlement and the pogrom and whose anti-Semitic policies set in train the emigration of millions of Jews should now be so deeply involved in the attempt to destroy the State of Israel. ==

The "pogroms" wasn't on the territory of Russia but in Ukraine and Moldavia.

The "Pale of Settlement" was developed by czars. It is the document of its times.
Jews in Russia was foreign body but the "multuculturism" ideology was developped 100 year later. Russian Empire wasn't about the "multuculturism" you know. It was Russian not jewish so czar did everything to keep her that way.

But seeing how much wrong did this idea of "multuculturism" on the West I wouldn't comdenm russian czar for refusing multiculturism on jewish example 100 years before.

This is utter nonsense. Israel has fought on many occasions when the Arabs have had a far better advantage (as in 1948) or an equal advantage (as in 1967 and 1973) and still come out on top. ==

As I said, since that Arabs and muslims learned how to fight. So it shall not that easy then before. And given the absense of the thecnological advantage the fight between Israel and Iran is very predictable.

The problem lies with Russia which is providing arms willy-nilly to nations like Syria and allowing Iran to develop nuclear weapons. ==

Russia doesn't "supply" no one but provide the ligitimate business. She runs the Gun Fare. Everyone with money may come and buy the guns. She sells to 50+ countries not excusively to Syria and Iran.

BTW Russia hold only 2d position in the world gun trades. Guess who hold 1st position?:) SO Russia has the good example before her eyes.


45 posted on 08/13/2006 1:42:29 AM PDT by RusIvan ("THINK!" the motto of IBM)
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To: Basel2005
Bullshit!

Play the anti semite card when you are out of answers. "To everyone else," you can read that and understand why we are in the fix we are in.

If you can't face facts, arguments or opinions, you can't fix it. So just keep playing that card.


46 posted on 08/13/2006 1:44:46 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("I like to legislate. I feel I've done a lot of good." Sen. Robert Byrd)
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To: RusIvan

"Jews in Russia was foreign body but the "multuculturism" ideology was developped 100 year later. Russian Empire wasn't about the "multuculturism" you know. It was Russian not jewish so czar did everything to keep her that way."

With these words you confirm everything I wrote about Russia's vicious anti-Semitism. You also confirm that in your own little neck of the woods nothing much has changed in the intervening years.

"Russia doesn't "supply" no one but provide the ligitimate business. She runs the Gun Fare. Everyone with money may come and buy the guns. She sells to 50+ countries not excusively to Syria and Iran."

The decisions to supply Syria with missiles and Iran indirectly with nuclear weapons were taken right at the top by Putin. It is an attempt by him to on one hand slap the United States in the face and on the other to destroy the State of Israel. Given her history, I imagine that Russians would embrace the deaths of over 5 million Jews with much joy and appreciation. I am sure that Putin is well aware of this.




47 posted on 08/13/2006 1:56:15 AM PDT by Basel2005
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To: nathanbedford

3. The third reality, which I suspect you are not going to like, is the hard truth that this war against Muslim terrorism can only be won by Muslims. ==

I agree almost with everything especially point 3. Why you said that "I wouldn't like it"? I like it very much because Russia in Chechnya did exctly same thing in lesser scale however.
The war in Chechnya now run by the moderate Chechens with the federals vs islamists. So it is muslims vs muslims. And first party wins.

The problem is that America couldn't find such the moderate Muslims because of Israel. All muslims don't like Israel and won't be in one camp with it.

The technological adnvatage and the worrior skills of Muslims increase. So next war and next after next may end Israel. They may just overrun her.

I see only one way to Israel survival now. The nuclier weapon use. Israel for herself or America for Israel should use nuclier bomb and scare Islamic world. After that it should be new Cold war now against Islam. Under MAD deterrence Israel could continue to exists on ME.


48 posted on 08/13/2006 1:57:09 AM PDT by RusIvan ("THINK!" the motto of IBM)
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To: nathanbedford

"Play the anti semite card when you are out of answers"

I never once mentioned anti-Semitism. But while individuals like yourself play the "Father Coughlin card" for all it's worth, you can expect to be called on it.

"Nathan Bedford" is such a very appropriate nickname.


49 posted on 08/13/2006 2:01:40 AM PDT by Basel2005
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To: Basel2005

"Jews in Russia was foreign body but the "multuculturism" ideology was developped 100 year later. Russian Empire wasn't about the "multuculturism" you know. It was Russian not jewish so czar did everything to keep her that way."

With these words you confirm everything I wrote about Russia's vicious anti-Semitism.==

Heh:) It is not anti-Semitism but anti-"multiculturism".

I praise each nation on her lands. Russians in Russia. Ukranians in Ukraine. Germans in Gernamy. Poles in Polands. And so on. And of cause I praise Jews in Israel.

So live there not here and prosper as whatever you can. But I have nothing to resolving with your problems. I act in my interests but you act in yours. That is simple.


50 posted on 08/13/2006 2:02:00 AM PDT by RusIvan ("THINK!" the motto of IBM)
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