Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Shoot First No Questions Asked (mega barf alert!)
NY Times' Terrorist Tip Sheet ^ | August 14, 2006 | Meathead Editorial

Posted on 08/14/2006 3:24:50 PM PDT by neverdem

If ever a law was designed as a get-out-of-jail-free card for the trigger-happy gun owner, it’s one that comes to us via the gun lobby and the State of Florida. The law, passed in the last year in 15 states and being considered in eight others, allows the extraordinary use of deadly force when a person simply doesn’t want to back away from a confrontation.

There are legitimate kill-or-be-killed situations, but those are defensible in court already. There seems little reason to legally enshrine the right to maim or kill in response to a perceived threat. These laws do just that, and already a creepy picture of “Death Wish”-style justice is emerging.

In one case, a retired police officer shot twice and seriously wounded an apparently unarmed neighbor who had knocked on his door in a dispute over the number of garbage bags put out for collection. The shooter will remain free as long as his self-defense argument holds, and it well may.

The contorted logic of these laws reverses the notions that favored flight over fight and held deadly force to be a last resort. The Florida law holds that a crime victim may “stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary.” To defend homes and vehicles, an owner can wield lethal force with a freedom not granted to the police.

Redefining lethal force is bad enough, but it also comes with near-automatic immunity from prosecution and civil lawsuits. Florida’s law is a sick cousin of the work of the gun lobby on Capitol Hill, where it has successfully protected the interstate traffickers of guns used in crimes. And it is the evil twin of laws passed in 38 states that allow concealed weapons.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: District of Columbia; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: 2a; 2ndamendment; bang; banglist; firearm; handgun; longarm; newyorkslimes; nyt; pistol; revolver; rifle; rkba; secondamendment; shotgun; sidearm
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-61 next last
Florida’s law is a sick cousin of the work of the gun lobby on Capitol Hill, where it has successfully protected the interstate traffickers of guns used in crimes.

I think they're yapping about disclosing traces of the ATF, IMHO.

Bloomberg Has Nothing but Harsh Words for a Gun Bill Before Congress

1 posted on 08/14/2006 3:24:51 PM PDT by neverdem
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: neverdem

bump


2 posted on 08/14/2006 3:25:29 PM PDT by lowbridge (I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather. Not screaming, like his passengers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

This crap from the NYT is consistent with their cut and run philosophy concernimg Iraq.


3 posted on 08/14/2006 3:28:35 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for SSgt. Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Does this mean that the New York Slimes and Rino Bloomberg will never move to Florida as a result of this law?

I would say that is definitely to the benefit of the Sunshine State.


4 posted on 08/14/2006 3:29:13 PM PDT by mkjessup (The Shah doesn't look so bad now, eh? But nooo, Jimmah said the Ayatollah was a 'godly' man.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

As a future fireamrm owner, I very nmuch resent this characterization of me as a "trigger happy yahoo". I'm only like that on certain occasions, like around the NYTimes head office. See, that makes me a very responsible gun owner.

Sixty years ago, this POS rag hut would be downsized by the chair.


5 posted on 08/14/2006 3:29:40 PM PDT by Killborn (Pres. Bush isn't Pres. Reagan. Then again, Pres. Regan isn't Pres. Washington. God bless them all.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Killborn

Future firearm owner? Why not now?


6 posted on 08/14/2006 3:33:32 PM PDT by Roccus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
What a pile of crap.
Sorry I don't have more to add but this makes me angry.
7 posted on 08/14/2006 3:34:14 PM PDT by Jean S
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
They're New York liberals - they know what's best for everyone and anyone who disagrees with them is just stupid or evil.

And they want Hillary for President (shudder)...

8 posted on 08/14/2006 3:36:41 PM PDT by Billthedrill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Killborn

great tagline, amazing how far the field has shifted, unfortunately.


9 posted on 08/14/2006 3:37:56 PM PDT by SFC Chromey (We are at war with Islamists, now ACT LIKE IT!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
"If ever a law was designed as a get-out-of-jail-free card for the trigger-happy gun owner"

Written by a butt happy bitemunch.

10 posted on 08/14/2006 3:42:34 PM PDT by higgmeister (In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
when a person simply doesn’t want to back away from a confrontation.

The writer's opinion may change (if he lives through it) should he ever find himself in a situation where he cannot just "back away" and is unarmed.
11 posted on 08/14/2006 3:45:23 PM PDT by D1X1E
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Society armed

People polite


12 posted on 08/14/2006 3:48:12 PM PDT by BenLurkin ("The entire remedy is with the people." - W. H. Harrison)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

"...neighbor who had knocked on his door in a dispute over the number of garbage bags..."

'scuse me, mind yer own damn business. It's between the too-many-bags-guy and the waste hauler.

Some people think it's their right to stick their nose into everyone else's lives. You shouldn't get shot for it, but why tempt fate?


13 posted on 08/14/2006 3:55:08 PM PDT by Felis_irritable
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
If ever a law was designed as a get-out-of-jail-free card for the trigger-happy gun owner, sop to freedom hating nanny statists, it's one that comes to us via the gun lobby and the State of Florida. every other freakin law on the books!

Why is it such a terrible thing when the pro-rights crowd actually wins one?

14 posted on 08/14/2006 3:59:28 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
There are legitimate kill-or-be-killed situations, but those are defensible in court already.

Not exactly. In most states, "make my day" laws harmonize burden of proof in self defense cases with all other crimes one might be accused of, on the state, as it should be. When a state makes a special rule to change procedure for a specific crime, it's up to them to justify why it would be different, not up to the people to justify why it should be the same as every other crime.

15 posted on 08/14/2006 4:03:21 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
To defend homes and vehicles, an owner can wield lethal force with a freedom not granted to the police.

Well, DUH! We're talking about a homeowner here, why WOULDN'T a member of the public have more latitude than one of their employees?

16 posted on 08/14/2006 4:05:42 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Florida’s law is a sick cousin of the work of the gun lobby on Capitol Hill, where it has successfully protected the interstate traffickers of guns used in crimes.

No, what they meant to say was "The New York Times is a sick cousin of the yellow-journalism tabloids that they used to ridicule in journalism school - its main goal is to successfully protect and advance the cause of criminals and traitors"...

17 posted on 08/14/2006 4:15:14 PM PDT by The Electrician ("Government is the only enterprise in the world which expands in size when its failures increase.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
The NY TIMES is off its rocker if it really believes what it prints.

allows the extraordinary use of deadly force when a person simply doesn’t want to back away from a confrontation.

If you are attacked the NY TIMES believes you should be arrested for fighting back. Sure sounds like it, this ain't the UK!!

18 posted on 08/14/2006 4:21:17 PM PDT by GeronL (http://www.mises.org/story/1975 <--no such thing as a fairtax)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
They did however miss the little part about how every single fatal defense shooting by an armed citizen defending their property in FL ended in the termination of a career criminal. - every single one.
19 posted on 08/14/2006 4:24:45 PM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Roccus

Still a college student + money is tight.


20 posted on 08/14/2006 4:33:59 PM PDT by Killborn (Pres. Bush isn't Pres. Reagan. Then again, Pres. Regan isn't Pres. Washington. God bless them all.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: SFC Chromey

Thanks. The problem with us conservatives is that we shoot our own quite often. When the left does it, it makes sense because they are purging those who are not 100% committed to form a stronger cartel. Thus they are making themselves stronger. Although we are nowhere near as fascistic or fanatical in our ideology, we tend to shoot the good guys too often. And instead of making us stronger aka the Demontraitors, we become weaker.


21 posted on 08/14/2006 4:37:28 PM PDT by Killborn (Pres. Bush isn't Pres. Reagan. Then again, Pres. Regan isn't Pres. Washington. God bless them all.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: xcamel

SSSHHHHHHHH don't say that too loud or they will for sure put an end to such logical law.


22 posted on 08/14/2006 4:40:20 PM PDT by SFC Chromey (We are at war with Islamists, now ACT LIKE IT!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Thanks for the alert. I thought I was prepared, but I'm suddenly feeling this urge to hug the porcelain. I won't be reading the full article.

The NYSlimes should have itself patented as a purgative.


23 posted on 08/14/2006 4:47:46 PM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Killborn
As a future fireamrm owner,

It's easy. Just takes a few simple steps.

- Decide why you want a firearm

- Join the NRA

- Take a firearms safety class

- Go to the range with an experienced shooter

- Understand the differences between rifles, shotguns, revolvers, and pistols.

- Decide what weapon is appropriate for your purpose (caliber, nightstand vs. carry, weight, recoil, alloy vs. all steel).

- Ask a gazillion questions (there's a bunch of us here on FR who can help you).

- Make the firearms purchase and don't forget several hundred rounds of practice ammo

- Practice, practice, practice.

Owning a gun is not like a set of steak knives in the drawer. Know your gun and... keep it CLEAN.

Here is my obligatory pic of my Sig P226 in 9 mm. Very simple and very reliable due to its simplicity.

Remeber, Glocks are Good, but Sigs are Supreme.


24 posted on 08/14/2006 4:50:42 PM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Killborn

I had my Dad by me my first gun at 14 with my paper rout money. A .22 single shot hand cocking Savage. I got to use it one weekend a year when we went to my uncle's farm in CT. Couldn't use it at home as we lived in NYC.
If you want it bad enough, you can get it.


25 posted on 08/14/2006 4:57:46 PM PDT by Roccus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: SFC Chromey
SSSHHHHHHHH is for keeps.



26 posted on 08/14/2006 5:01:01 PM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Roccus

What kind of gun is it?


27 posted on 08/14/2006 5:56:57 PM PDT by Killborn (Pres. Bush isn't Pres. Reagan. Then again, Pres. Regan isn't Pres. Washington. God bless them all.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Cobra64

Thanks for the help. Hopefully that day will come soon. I always liked Glocks because of their unique design.


28 posted on 08/14/2006 5:57:55 PM PDT by Killborn (Pres. Bush isn't Pres. Reagan. Then again, Pres. Regan isn't Pres. Washington. God bless them all.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Killborn

I like Glocks but they are too light, causing too much recoil which translates to pain. See my discussion points. Glocks are more complicated as well.


29 posted on 08/14/2006 6:34:13 PM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Cobra64

Thanks for the tip. They are still massively cool. I guess I'll try to compensate.


30 posted on 08/14/2006 7:01:59 PM PDT by Killborn (Pres. Bush isn't Pres. Reagan. Then again, Pres. Regan isn't Pres. Washington. God bless them all.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Killborn
They are still massively cool.

I like Glocks a lot. But not because they are cool.

My wife likes her gun because it is light, reliable. easy to use, acceptable recoil, and looks nice.


31 posted on 08/14/2006 7:23:10 PM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Cobra64

That IS a nice little purse-piece.

They do say that kind words and a .45 will get the job done faster than kind words alone...


32 posted on 08/14/2006 7:47:30 PM PDT by capt.P (Hold Fast! Strong Hand Uppermost!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Killborn

It was a rifle. As I said, a single shot .22. In thinking about it later, I realized that I bought it when I was 12, not 14. (Hey, it was a loooong time ago) I had to have my Dad get it because I was too young to purchase it, though it was my money. I gave it to my oldest niece about 20-25 years ago for her first gun. Very safe, good first gun.


33 posted on 08/14/2006 8:04:27 PM PDT by Roccus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Cobra64

I've got shotguns and rifles but have been thinking of getting a pistol for the house. I've been thinking of a .38 snub nosed revolver as it will probably spend most of its time in/on the nightstand gathering dust. Any thoughts?


34 posted on 08/14/2006 8:11:28 PM PDT by Roccus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Cobra64

I'll admit, I'm kind of shallow in that regards. I saw the boxy style that separates it from other pistols and like that uniqueness. The barrel of most pistols are similar to the one your wife is using and I admired the unique design. :D


35 posted on 08/14/2006 8:11:51 PM PDT by Killborn (Pres. Bush isn't Pres. Reagan. Then again, Pres. Regan isn't Pres. Washington. God bless them all.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Roccus

Pics?


36 posted on 08/14/2006 8:12:20 PM PDT by Killborn (Pres. Bush isn't Pres. Reagan. Then again, Pres. Regan isn't Pres. Washington. God bless them all.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: xcamel

Ooooh...gun porn! I like that one!


37 posted on 08/14/2006 8:50:16 PM PDT by trussell (Work for God...the retirement benefits are eternal!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Killborn
You can check out a variety of German, Swiss, Austrian guns here:

http://remtek.com/arms/

Your best bet is to join a club and talk to the range master. The other shooters will be more than happy to let you fire their toys. Keep in mind, most of us have strong preferences as to why they like their gun best. And that's terrific.

38 posted on 08/14/2006 9:00:29 PM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Roccus
I own a .38 snub nose. I carry it everyday, everywhere and it sleeps next to me. As i live in Phillugia(Philadelphia)where the murder rate is in stiff competition with fallugia.

I like the gun, still getting used to it. I have the laser grip. It is a powerfull snub of a gun.
39 posted on 08/14/2006 9:14:28 PM PDT by beericus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Killborn
if you wanna see pics of guns, and videos of gun shoots, go to my website and click on the "Shooting Sports pages" link.

The advice from other posters is good. I strongly urge you to follow their advice. :)

40 posted on 08/14/2006 9:25:00 PM PDT by Neil E. Wright (An oath is FOREVER)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Cobra64

Thanks. I like all kinds of guns but the ones I really have an affinity for are the Western ones, especailly the good old USA. Despite performance problems, as the workhorse of the US military, I always admired the Armalite class of rifles. HEckler and Koch is another favorite especailly the MPs. Not to knock Russian and Israeli engineering, their AKs and Galils also does the trick well, respectively.


41 posted on 08/14/2006 9:32:03 PM PDT by Killborn (Pres. Bush isn't Pres. Reagan. Then again, Pres. Regan isn't Pres. Washington. God bless them all.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Neil E. Wright

Gracias. That's one of the reasons I love FR. So many experts. Lost counts of how many times I read an article and thought to myself "Alright, what do the experts think?"

:)


42 posted on 08/14/2006 9:33:33 PM PDT by Killborn (Pres. Bush isn't Pres. Reagan. Then again, Pres. Regan isn't Pres. Washington. God bless them all.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Roccus
Hi Roccus-

If you're considering a .38 Special you might as well purchase a .357 Magnum and have the flexibility to use either cartridge. Use the revolver only if you don't have the time to summon the shotgun to duty or if you're using it to answer an unexpected knock at the front door.

To keep this thread on point, the author of the story is a Nervous Nellie attempting to offer solutions for a problem that doesn't exist. The residents of states like Florida have shown remarkable restraint in their use of deadly force. He is lying in an attempt to "make" a story.

~ Blue Jays ~

43 posted on 08/14/2006 9:47:22 PM PDT by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Killborn

If you like guns, why don't you have any?


44 posted on 08/14/2006 11:29:31 PM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: xcamel
They did however miss the little part about how every single fatal defense shooting by an armed citizen defending their property in FL ended in the termination of a career criminal.

Oh, they didn't MISS it, they just deliberately didn't pass the fact on.

Rush always points out how the MSM always reports only what fits the (fabricated) action line, no contradicting facts are published.

45 posted on 08/14/2006 11:44:47 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Striving to obtain liberal victim status.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Cobra64
Hi Cobra64-

Killborn is still a student and doesn't quite have the budget for firearms right now. There is more detail in the rest of the thread.

~ Blue Jays ~

46 posted on 08/15/2006 3:03:01 AM PDT by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Roccus
I've been thinking of a .38 snub nosed revolver

For the same amount of money, you can get a .357 which can shoot both .38 and .357. This way you always have the option of shooting a hotter load. Personally, I like a 4" bbl for more accuracy and increased velocity. A wheel gun is a great choice for supreme reliability.

47 posted on 08/15/2006 7:24:01 AM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Killborn; Squantos
I was up past 2AM trying to find a pic for you. YOU OWE ME!! (in my best George C. Scott voice.) No luck. As I said, it was a long time ago. The best I could do was determine that it was a Stevens/Savage Model 52 or 52-A. One was a close-cock (the firing pin would cock as the bolt was closed) the other, you had to cock it after the bolt was closed by pulling back a knob on the back of the bolt. This is the one I had. It was a take down in that a single screw under the stock forward of the trigger guard would separate the iron from the wood.
I pinged Squantos in hopes he could help. He is my go-to guy and guru in all things that go BANG!
Good luck.
48 posted on 08/15/2006 7:29:39 AM PDT by Roccus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Blue Jays; neverdem
Thanks for the info and my apologies to neverdem for hijacking the thread.
49 posted on 08/15/2006 7:32:17 AM PDT by Roccus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Cobra64

Thanks. This would be for in house defense only, so distance would be 25' or less. Anything outside, it's the 12ga semi, salt in the chamber and alternating shot and pumpkinball afterward. :)


50 posted on 08/15/2006 7:37:51 AM PDT by Roccus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-61 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson