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Ancient Welsh city found
News Wales ^ | 14 Aug 2006 | News Wales

Posted on 08/15/2006 7:52:05 AM PDT by Marius3188

Caer Caradoc at Mynydd y Gaer, Glamorgan, is one of the most important locations in all of ancient British history. It is the fabled fortress city of King Caradoc 1, son of Arch, who fought the Romans from 42-51AD.

And now, a small team of dedicated researchers working with historians Alan Wilson and Baram Blackett, have been able to pinpoint the location of this site. "It is great news for the local, regional and national economy," said Alan Wilson today. "We have been making these discoveries for many years and with the Electrum Cross discovered at nearby St. Peter's in 1990, it looks like a boost for jobs is likely."

"What is more," added research team leader Baram A Blackett, "this is but one of several South Wales sites we are currently investigating. And the others are arguably bigger news than this!"

"This is one of many remarkable places", he added.

"What we have is a clearly-defined walled city in exactly the place the records tell us it should be. The Welsh manuscripts and supporting records are always precise and allow us to make major progress in terms of identifying royal burial mounds, tombs, artefacts and more," said Wilson.

Aerial photographs obtained by the research team via Google Earth are available for viewing on the Internet via, realhistoryradio.blogspot.com

A Caer is a fortress and Caers were major fortress cities and towns for example: Caer Lllundain (London), Caerdydd (Cardiff) Caergrant (Cambridge) and Caer Loyw (Gloucester).

Historical references to Caer Caradoc are many and include statements in the Brut Tyssilio (684 AD) and the later Gruffyd ap Arthur (1135 AD) where Merddyn Emrys (Martin Ambrosius) and his mother are said to have met with the Ambassdors of Vortigern at St. Peter's Super-Montem Church at Caer Caradoc, where they lived.

(The ruin of the ancient St. Peters' Super-Montem Church, owned by Alan Wilson and Baram Blackett, is still on the low mountain immediately above the city of Caer Caradoc. The church is similarly ancient, dating to the 1st Century AD as shown in the 1990 dig at the site.)

Another reference is that of Teithfallt/Theodosius, who buried the 363 British noblemen murdered by treacherous Saxons at the notorious "Peace ConfereThe team say the Mynwent y Milwyr, "monument to the soldiers", is still to be found on the second highest point of Mynydd y Gaer above the city of Caer Caradoc that they have found.

A third reference is that of the "Uthyr Pendragon" , King Meurig/Maurice, who lies buried at the giant circle at Caer Caradoc. There is, at this location, a gigantic ditch and mound shaped like a boat, next to St. Peter's Church ruin. In this 180 yards by 70 yards wide earth mound and ditch feature there is the huge grave mound of Meurig.

At the highest point of the Mynydd y Gaer, "Fortress Mountain", lies the burial mound known at "Twyn Caradoc", for King Caradoc 1 who returned from Rome in 59AD.

The area around St. Peter's Church is called Portref, or "Supreme Manor Place", and other place names include "the throne of the knight," "the ridge of the soldiers" and the "pass of the soldier". King Lleirwg (King Luke) rebuilt St Peter's circa 160AD and an archaeological dig undertaken there in 1990 showed four successive ancient church rebuildings dating back to the 1st Century AD. The illustrious Welsh records known as the Triads state that the Caer Caradoc church was the most important in Britain.

Around 150 yards away from St Peter's ruins are the ruins of a thick castle wall and the bases of two gate towers where a castle once stood allowing watchman the best possible views of the coastal views of Glamorgan and the Severn Estuary.

There was a major battle near Caer Caradoc in 51 AD where the Khumric-Welsh claimed victory over the Romans. This battle site was located north west of Mynydd y Gaer near Merthyr (Merthyr Tydfil today), or vale of the Martyrs.

After winning the battle, Caradoc went north to get assistance from the Queen of the Brigantes, Aregwedd, misnamed Cartismandua by the Latins. Instead, the Queen, known as the "traitor", handed Caradoc over to the Romans. He was subsequently taken to Rome where he resided for seven years before returning home.

The team say tthe discovery of Caer Caradoc, a pre-Roman British city is a severe embarrassment to academics who take no notice of Welsh records. Despite this, they now have clear photographic evidence, proof positive, of a rectangular walled city located on the flatlands just city south of St. Peter's and north of Brynna village. Although they are not yet allowed on-site, as it is privately owned, the site can be seen easily.

This city, Caer Caradoc, was once the capital of the Paramount King of Britain, and the team started to look for its precise location in 1990 but it was not until the development of the aerial imaging programme, Google Earth, that they were able to make the identification, and this was a difficult process of checking and re-checking.

There is further conclusive evidence based upon Tithe Maps. These are a detailed record of every Welsh field. Each field had a designated number, details of the owner and tenant farmer and, importantly, the field's name. Every field had a name and often described what had occurred there, if anything. Around St. Peters, the field names show it to be the location of the Peace Conference of 456 took place. "Field of the Conference, "Field of the Quarrel," "Field of the Blood". Copies of Tithe maps are easily obtained.

This is a major find by any standards and we welcome questions, queries and requests for further detail from all comers.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Unclassified
KEYWORDS: alanwilson; ambrosius; aregwedd; baramblackett; brigantes; bruttyssilio; brynna; caer; caercaradoc; caerdydd; caergrant; caerlllundain; caerloyw; caledonia; cambridge; caradoc; cardiff; cardoc; cartismandua; city; dangthatsold; glamorgan; gloucester; godsgravesglyphs; gruffydaparthur; kingarthur; lleirwg; london; merddynemrys; merthyrtydfil; meurig; mynwentymilwyr; mynyddygaer; pictish; picts; portref; romanempire; severn; teithfallt; theodosius; tithemaps; twyncaradoc; unitedkingdom; uthyrpendragon; vortigern; wales; welsh

1 posted on 08/15/2006 7:52:07 AM PDT by Marius3188
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To: SunkenCiv

ping


2 posted on 08/15/2006 7:52:55 AM PDT by Marius3188 (Happy Resurrection Weekend)
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To: Marius3188

Amazing how early Christianity took hold on those islands. Kind of ironic when you contemplate this history that the lead church in the Catholic world is in Rome.


3 posted on 08/15/2006 7:58:31 AM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA
Kind of ironic when you contemplate this history that the lead church in the Catholic world is in Rome.

Why is it ironic?

4 posted on 08/15/2006 7:59:45 AM PDT by frogjerk (REUTERS: We give smoke and mirrors a bad name)
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To: frogjerk

I think he's using the Alanis Morissette definition of ironic - Don't you think?


5 posted on 08/15/2006 8:06:53 AM PDT by SengirV
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To: Marius3188

Cool.


6 posted on 08/15/2006 8:07:18 AM PDT by Tzimisce (How Would Mohammed Vote? Hillary for President! www.dndorks.com)
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To: Marius3188

"The team say tthe discovery of Caer Caradoc, a pre-Roman British city is a severe embarrassment to academics who take no notice of Welsh records."

Why do academics ignore Welsh records?


7 posted on 08/15/2006 8:09:32 AM PDT by Rightfootforward
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To: Rightfootforward
Why do academics ignore Welsh records?

guess they didn't want to be known as a welsher...

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/welsher
8 posted on 08/15/2006 8:14:59 AM PDT by Proverbs 3-5
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To: Marius3188

TIM:
To the north there lies a cave-- the cave of Caerbannog-- wherein, carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of Olfin Bedwere of Rheged...
[boom]
...make plain the last resting place of the most Holy Grail.
ARTHUR:
Where could we find this cave, O Tim?
TIM:
Follow. But! Follow only if ye be men of valour, for the entrance to this cave is guarded by a creature so foul, so cruel that no man yet has fought with it and lived! Bones of full fifty men lie strewn about its lair. So, brave knights, if you do doubt your courage or your strength, come no further, for death awaits you all with nasty, big, pointy teeth.


9 posted on 08/15/2006 8:16:48 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy ( “I'm the Emperor, and I want dumplings!” (German: Ich bin der Kaiser und will Knödel.))
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To: Rightfootforward
Why do academics ignore Welsh records?

Probably the same reason why they ignore biblical records as well. Because, in their mind, "It can't be true."

10 posted on 08/15/2006 8:18:30 AM PDT by frogjerk (REUTERS: We give smoke and mirrors a bad name)
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To: Marius3188; blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; ...
Thanks Marius3188.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

11 posted on 08/15/2006 8:19:21 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: ClearCase_guy

John Cleese spits like a maniac in that scene!


12 posted on 08/15/2006 8:19:34 AM PDT by frogjerk (REUTERS: We give smoke and mirrors a bad name)
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To: Marius3188

What a strange, partisan sort of article.


13 posted on 08/15/2006 8:23:18 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: SengirV

Is that where the only irony is that she wrote a song called "Ironic" with multiple false examples of irony?


14 posted on 08/15/2006 8:27:53 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: Marius3188

This is really an interesting find! I hope that in future we get to hear the further developments. Its exciting! (Especially being a Catholic, as this relates to or touches on the earliest heritage of our Church.)


15 posted on 08/15/2006 8:30:01 AM PDT by VRWCer ("The Bible is the Rock on which this Republic rests." - President Andrew Jackson)
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To: Proverbs 3-5

Actually, "Welsh" comes from an Anglo-Saxon word meaning
"foreigner".

Ironic since the Welsh of the psot-Roman period were the original inhabitants of Britain.


16 posted on 08/15/2006 8:36:29 AM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: Marius3188

Now if archeologists in Wales could just find all those missing vowels ...


17 posted on 08/15/2006 8:47:06 AM PDT by IronJack (ALL)
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To: IronJack

LOL!


18 posted on 08/15/2006 8:52:01 AM PDT by Salamander (And don't forget my Dog; fixed and consequent.........)
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To: mysterio

Bingo


19 posted on 08/15/2006 8:52:13 AM PDT by SengirV
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To: Marius3188
And now, a small team of dedicated researchers working with historians Alan Wilson and Baram Blackett, have been able to pinpoint the location of this site. "It is great news for the local, regional and national economy,"

If uncovering a historic site makes a difference to the national economy, Wales must must be at an economic standstill.

20 posted on 08/15/2006 8:57:47 AM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The only good Mullah is a dead Mullah. The only good Mosque is the one that used to be there.)
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To: frogjerk

Early Christians fighting pagan Rome.


21 posted on 08/15/2006 9:11:37 AM PDT by DManA
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To: IronJack
Now if archeologists in Wales could just find all those missing vowels ...

They were stolen by the Irish.

22 posted on 08/15/2006 9:14:57 AM PDT by LexBaird ("Politically Correct" is the politically correct term for "F*cking Retarded". - Psycho Bunny)
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To: muawiyah

Ping. You might find this interesting.


23 posted on 08/15/2006 9:16:21 AM PDT by LexBaird ("Politically Correct" is the politically correct term for "F*cking Retarded". - Psycho Bunny)
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To: Marius3188
The church is similarly ancient, dating to the 1st Century AD as shown in the 1990 dig at the site.

If that church dates to the 1st Century AD, then it was not originally a Christian church. It dates hundreds of years before the very first Christians showed up in those lands.

24 posted on 08/15/2006 9:22:22 AM PDT by tortoise
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To: LexBaird
I suspect the Polynesians stole the A's. And the French sure seem to have a suspicious surplus of E's and U's. But it's likely the French stole their vowels from the Poles and Czech's, who then became so desperate that they pressed "Z" into service.

I suggest DNA testing of words around the world to determine where the missing Welsh vowels went.

25 posted on 08/15/2006 9:53:38 AM PDT by IronJack (ALL)
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To: Rightfootforward

For Welsh and biblical records, the academics say "This can't be true!"

But, most academics add another comment on the biblical records.
In private moments, they pray "This had better not be true!".


26 posted on 08/15/2006 9:58:59 AM PDT by VOA
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To: Marius3188
Welsh And English Are Races Apart
27 posted on 08/15/2006 10:09:36 AM PDT by blam
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To: IronJack
I suggest DNA testing of words around the world to determine where the missing Welsh vowels went.

There's only one vowel in "DNA". Besides, the Welsh seem to make do with the "sometimes y and w" clause.

28 posted on 08/15/2006 10:10:55 AM PDT by LexBaird ("Politically Correct" is the politically correct term for "F*cking Retarded". - Psycho Bunny)
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To: Marius3188
(Prince) Madoc In America
29 posted on 08/15/2006 10:11:07 AM PDT by blam
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To: LexBaird
There's only one vowel in "DNA".

True, but it's just an abbreviation. "Deoxyribonucleic acid" has some to spare!

30 posted on 08/15/2006 10:13:11 AM PDT by IronJack (ALL)
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To: tortoise

I was surprised too to read about 1st century Christians there. You think the article is just wrong?


31 posted on 08/15/2006 10:22:29 AM PDT by DManA
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To: tortoise
If that church dates to the 1st Century AD, then it was not originally a Christian church. It dates hundreds of years before the very first Christians showed up in those lands.

I think the legend goes something like this...Joseph of Arimathea traveled to England after the Resurrection with the Holy Grail. This is where the origin of the Holy Grail lore comes from.

Here is an interesting read from http://britannia.com/history/biographies/joseph.html

Joseph of Arimathea was a wealthy disciple of Jesus, who, according to the book of Matthew 27:57-60, asked Pontius Pilate for permission to take Jesus' dead body in order to prepare it for burial. He also provided the tomb where the crucified Lord was laid until his Resurrection. Joseph is mentioned in a few times in parallel passages in Mark, Luke and John, but nothing further is heard about his later activities.

Apocryphal legend, however, supplies us with the rest of his story by claiming that Joseph accompanied the Apostle Philip, Lazarus, Mary Magdalene & others on a preaching mission to Gaul. Lazarus & Mary stayed in Marseilles, while the others travelled north. At the English Channel, St.Philip sent Joseph, with twelve disciples, to establish Christianity in the most far-flung corner of the Roman Empire: the Island of Britain. The year AD 63 is commonly given for this "event", with AD 37 sometimes being put forth as an alternative. It was said that Joseph achieved his wealth in the metals trade, and in the course of conducting his business, he probably became acquainted with Britain, at least the south-western parts of it. Cornwall was a chief mining district and well-known in the Roman empire for its tin. Somerset was reknowned for its high quality lead. Some have even said that Joseph was the uncle of the Virgin Mary and therefore of Jesus, and that he may have brought the young boy along on one of his business trips to the island. Hence the words of Blake's famous hymn, Jerusalem:

And did those feet, in ancient time, Walk upon England's mountains green?

It was only natural, then, that Joseph should have been chosen for the first mission to Britain, and appropriate that he should come first to Glastonbury, that gravitational center for legendary activity in the West Country. Local legend has it that Joseph sailed around Land's End and headed for his old lead mining haunts. Here his boat ran ashore in the Glastonbury Marshes and, together with his followers, he climbed a nearby hill to survey the surrounding land. Having brought with him a staff grown from Christ's Holy Crown of Thorns, he thrust it into the ground and announced that he and his twelve companions were "Weary All". The thorn staff immediately took miraculous root, and it can be seen there still on Wearyall Hill. Joseph met with the local ruler, Arviragus, and soon secured himself twelve hides of land at Glastonbury on which to build the first monastery in Britain. From here he became the country's evangelist.

Much more was added to Joseph's legend during the Middle Ages. He was gradually inflated into a major saint and cult hero, as well as the supposed ancestor of many British monarchs. He is said to have brought with him to Britain a cup, said to have been used at the Last Supper and also used to catch the blood dripping from Christ as he hung on the Cross. A variation of this story is that Joseph brought with him two cruets, one containing the blood and the other, the sweat of Christ. Either of these items are known as The Holy Grail, and were the object(s) of the quests of the Knights of King Arthur's Round Table. One legend goes on to suggest that Joseph hid the "Grail" in Chalice Well at Glastonbury for safe-keeping (Photo)

There is a wide variance of scholarly opinion on this subject, however, and a good deal of doubt exists as to whether Joseph ever came to Britain at all, for any purpose.

32 posted on 08/15/2006 11:26:54 AM PDT by frogjerk (REUTERS: We give smoke and mirrors a bad name)
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To: DManA

See my post #32


33 posted on 08/15/2006 11:29:18 AM PDT by frogjerk (REUTERS: We give smoke and mirrors a bad name)
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To: Rightfootforward
The other word for the process is "the English Filter" ~ that's where NOTHING in the world is relevant unless seen through the experience of England, and that simply does not take you back to ancient Wales.

We have a similar problem in the United States. Although there were something like 30 permanent settlements on what is now the US East Coast by 1600, we only research and study the later English settlements at Plymouth and Jamestown.

34 posted on 08/15/2006 12:08:57 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: maica
Ancient Welsh city found
35 posted on 08/15/2006 12:10:56 PM PDT by Freee-dame
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To: VRWCer
Actually it touches on the heritage of a competing form of Christianity that was eventually snuffed out by one of the Popes.

This is the same brand you find associated with St. Patrick and the Irish monks of the early Middle Ages.

Thankfully it was a peaceful "snuffing" or we'd not know about it.

36 posted on 08/15/2006 12:10:59 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: tortoise

http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/christianintro.html informs us that the records show (and the Welsh really do have some very old records) that Tiberius was still emperor when the first Christian missionaries reached Wales.


37 posted on 08/15/2006 12:16:04 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Freee-dame
From the link that includes the Google Earth picture:

Pictured above, the clear outlines of the ancient "Hidden City" of Caer Caradoc, just north of Brynna, Glamorgan. A massive discovery using the lastest imaging via Google Earth. The Caer, or Fortress, is 2,000 year old.

I have actually been to that location, it is just a nice walk from Llanharan, and have seen the ruins of St Peter-super-Montem church. Vandals had exhumed graves that were under the stone floor of the building and there were bones strewn around. I hope that this amazing find will allow that relic to be properly preserved.

Dai must be thrilled. This was "his mountain" when he was a kid.

38 posted on 08/15/2006 1:35:59 PM PDT by maica (Creating human shields is a war crime. It is also a Hezbollah specialty.-- Charles Krauthammer)
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To: muawiyah

"The other word for the process is "the English Filter"

Excellent answer. Thanks.


39 posted on 08/15/2006 3:17:12 PM PDT by Rightfootforward
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To: Marius3188
"It is great news for the local, regional and national economy," said Alan Wilson today. "We have been making these discoveries for many years and with the Electrum Cross discovered at nearby St. Peter's in 1990, it looks like a boost for jobs is likely."

Is this guy a historian or a marketing manager?

40 posted on 08/15/2006 3:19:37 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Rightfootforward
Why do academics ignore Welsh records?

Victors write the history. Traditions of defeated people get turned into "myth" anytime they are in conflict with "real" history.

The oldest surviving Gothic Bible is dated to about 350 AD. Goths are believed to have originated in Southern Sweden & they were a Germanic people. History books say Charlemagne "Christianized" those "barbaric pagan" German tribes.

Back to Wales. Welsh built stockade type forts & they retreated from them when necessary to survive. They'd attack parties trying to forage from the locations of their former forts. The Welch long bow was useful for this, so attackers found staying is Wales unattractive.

Romans built stone fortresses along the Welch coast, so I have to think that digs along the coast that look like permanent settlements would have to be from the Roman "occupation", though they would be upon older Welsh settlements. Get deeper into the heart of Wales, a defeated people's last stronghold, purposely inaccessible, built of wood becomes a "mythical" place pretty quickly.

41 posted on 08/15/2006 3:46:37 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: GoLightly
Actually the Goths were already Christian before Charlemagne. Arian Christian but Christian none the less!
For example Christian Goths with Aetius one the last great Western Roman commanders against Attila. Also the Goths what defeated a Western Roman army at Adrianople were Christian, again Arian Christian. The Ostrogothic Kingdom in Attila which followed the battle of Adrianople was a Christian kingdom, again Arian Christian.
42 posted on 08/15/2006 3:58:36 PM PDT by Reily
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To: Reily

I knew that, which is I put quotes around "Christianized" & "barbaric pagans". I thought it was a good example of the way history gets distorted.


43 posted on 08/15/2006 4:19:50 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: GoLightly

In Scotland there is a little castle on Loch Ness called Urquehart Castle. Nobody knows who built it or why. Certainly not a bunch of guys that drank beer and went fishing there years ago. Maybe it had another purpose. The rain in the summer there is about the same temp as the water temp. I skinny-dipped around there once and that is a very deep glacial lake. Cute little red heads live around there that like to fish. Inverness has a nice restaurant that serves steamed or fried fish. Dunvegan is on the Isle of Skye and it's sort of like Kansas. Nice people there.


44 posted on 08/15/2006 5:20:56 PM PDT by BobS
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To: BobS

http://www.castles.org/Chatelaine/URQUHART.HTM

http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/drumnadrochit/urquhart/

From the looks of it, I was gonna say it was built in the Middle Ages. A lot of castle building involved using stones from previous structures, other crumbling castles or walls. It was faster to "borrow" than to start from scratch.

Text from the second link I posted...

"Opinions differ as to whether Urquhart Castle was originally the site of a Pictish fort dating back to a visit by St Columba in 597, but there was certainly a Pictish settlement in the area at the time. The first real evidence of anything recognisable as a castle dates back to the years following 1230, when Alexander II crushed a revolt in the province of Moray, to the north, and decided to defend this strategic route."

From what I can tell, my MacBean ancestors were from Iverness. Maybe they had a hand in building it. :o)


45 posted on 08/15/2006 9:57:13 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: Emmylou

ping


46 posted on 08/17/2006 2:08:55 AM PDT by Bellflower (A Brand New Day Is Coming!)
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 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


47 posted on 07/21/2012 9:14:30 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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