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Few conceal-carry permits revoked, records show (OH)
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH ^ | August 13, 2006 | John Futty

Posted on 08/15/2006 9:25:51 AM PDT by neverdem


Sheriffs keeping reasons for suspensions, revocations secret

Two years after Ohio sheriffs began issuing licenses allowing residents to carry concealed guns, few of those licenses have been suspended or revoked.

Supporters of the law say the statistics prove that the training and screening required for applicants are preventing licenses from being issued to those likely to commit crimes or misuse the weapon.

Others say the statistics don’t reveal enough, because the law forbids the release of information about whose licenses were pulled and why.

"Those with the concealed-carry licenses have been good, law-abiding citizens," said Robert Cornwell, executive director of the Buckeye State Sheriffs’ Association. "The worst-case scenarios that were put out there about the gunfight at the OK Corral didn’t come to fruition."

Of the 73,530 licenses issued from April 2004 through the first quarter of this year, sheriffs’ offices reported 391 suspensions and 217 revocations. That means roughly one of every 121 licenses was suspended or revoked.

More than half of the 100 revocations issued statewide this year came from the Cuyahoga County sheriff’s office after accusations that dozens of license-holders were trained by a weapons instructor who didn’t provide the training required by state law.

The instructor has been charged with 46 felony counts of forgery and 23 felony counts of tampering with records.

But the reasons for other suspensions and revocations are largely a mystery. The concealcarry law Ohio legislators enacted keeps private most of the information about license-holders.

"I look at the stats and it doesn’t tell me a lot, because it doesn’t tell why they were suspended," said Toby Hoover, executive director of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence.

The law requires sheriffs, whose offices issue the licenses, to suspend the license of anyone arrested or charged with certain crimes, including any felony, drug offense or domestic-violence offense. A court-issued protection order against the license-holder also results in suspension.

The license is to be revoked if the holder is convicted of a disqualifying crime or moves out of the state. There also are prohibitions on those judged mentally incompetent or drug or alcohol dependent.

The law restricts the release of information about the licenses to journalists, whose access is limited to the names, birth dates and county of residence for license-holders. News organizations have argued that information on the licenses should be open to the public.

Sheriffs’ offices in Franklin and Cuyahoga counties cited state law last month in denying a Dispatch request for copies of notification letters the offices have mailed to those whose licenses were suspended or revoked.

Supervisors in both offices said they are confident that the system for identifying licenses that must be suspended or revoked is working.

Franklin County has issued 2,957 licenses, suspended 11 and revoked one since the program began. Cuyahoga County has issued 1,906, suspended 16 and revoked 57.

State Rep. James Aslanides, a Republican from Coshocton who was chief sponsor of the legislation allowing Ohioans to carry concealed guns, has opposed the public release of any information about license-holders, saying it endangers them and their families.

"I have argued that records are too open when it comes to those who have the licenses, but whether they are too closed on revocations and suspensions is another argument," he said. "I’d rather have journalists have access to the revocations and suspensions than information about all license-holders."

jfutty@dispatch.com


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: banglist
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175 muster to stop Montville gun rule (CT)
1 posted on 08/15/2006 9:25:54 AM PDT by neverdem
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To: All

What is a good small LIGHT dependable gun for me to carry?


2 posted on 08/15/2006 9:29:13 AM PDT by Fawn
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To: Fawn

Kahr and Glock make some nice weapons that fit that bill - so does Seecamp. Define "small" - how tall are you, how much do you weigh, and where do you intend to conceal it?


3 posted on 08/15/2006 9:32:13 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Fawn
If you want the ultimate in light, precision made, compact, for a real defense round (9mm) and cost is no object (we are talking over $1000), then there is only one choice:

http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/

If cost is a factor, then a Smith and Wesson Airweight or equivalent, or a Kel-Tec P3AT

http://www.kel-tec.com/p3at.html
4 posted on 08/15/2006 9:38:10 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: neverdem
Few conceal-carry permits revoked, records show (OH)

Why would they be?

5 posted on 08/15/2006 9:39:18 AM PDT by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: Spktyr

LOL....


6 posted on 08/15/2006 9:43:21 AM PDT by Fawn
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To: Fawn

My everyday carry: Beretta .32 `Tomcat', Winchester Silvertips, in a DeSantis pocket holster. Spare mag in an Altoids tin.
Sportcoat or jeans pockets, no `printing'. It never jams. Women like it `cause you can pop the barrel for loading, no need to rack slide. The titanium version is even lighter.


7 posted on 08/15/2006 9:43:37 AM PDT by tumblindice
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To: Fawn
SIG 232, a little pricey though.
8 posted on 08/15/2006 9:45:03 AM PDT by mr_hammer (They have eyes, but do not see . . .)
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To: Fawn

HiPoint C-9, compact 9mm. MSRP $ 140.00. Don't let the low price and ugly looks fool you. Very simple and reliable handgun with 8 round magazine at a very affordable price. Can accept a 10 round magazine that is also compatible with the HiPoint 995 9mm carbine. See www.mkssupply.com for more info.


9 posted on 08/15/2006 9:46:29 AM PDT by Fee (`+Great powers never let minor allies dictate who, where and when they must fight.)
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To: Beelzebubba
I like your second recomendation.
I have 3 pistols right now....2 undependable and my S&W 38 is too heavy.. Thanks...
10 posted on 08/15/2006 9:47:23 AM PDT by Fawn
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To: tumblindice
no need to rack slide.

That sounds good too!

11 posted on 08/15/2006 9:49:10 AM PDT by Fawn
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To: Fawn

Um, those were serious questions. Your height and weight determines what you can hide.

Of course, if you're going to carry a purse gun, this is all irrelevant.


12 posted on 08/15/2006 9:49:56 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Beelzebubba

I've shot a Rohrbaugh. The recoil is surprisingly vicious for a 9mm.

Remember that people need to practice with the arm they carry, and a weapon that's unpleasant to shoot won't be shot for practice much. That precludes the Airweight, and IMHO, just about all the snubby revolvers.

IMHO, I'd say that P3AT would work (though it's on the light side for caliber). Kahr makes the PM9 (9mm minipistol) that's gotten a lot of rave reviews. If you can live with something a hair larger, there's the micro-Glocks.


13 posted on 08/15/2006 9:57:36 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: neverdem
But the reasons for other suspensions and revocations are largely a mystery. The concealcarry law Ohio legislators enacted keeps private most of the information about license-holders.

I totally agree with keeping people's identity concealed, but I would be curious as to the REASONS WHY there were revocations. Failure to renew, accidental discharge...?

14 posted on 08/15/2006 9:58:47 AM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
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To: Fawn

My palm almost covers the little Tomcat but it's a good shooter, out to about 20 feet.
If you can carry a slightly larger gun, I'd recommend the CZ P-01. Aluminum frame so it's light, concealable, has a de-cocker, low barrel axis so less recoil than my Browning, slide is inside the frame so less movement, I think, and it is very accurate.


15 posted on 08/15/2006 9:58:49 AM PDT by tumblindice
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To: Fee

C-9s are as large as a Glock 19, and are heavy for their size class. Their balance is also *really* weird. They're not natural point shooters at all.


16 posted on 08/15/2006 9:59:05 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Fawn

Depends on whether you want a revolver or an auto, and what load you can handle. If you want a very light auto that is dependable the S&W .380(that is what it is called, the .380)is very light, very easy to conceal and if used at close range the .380 will take out anyone. This is just one possibility, there are many out there.


17 posted on 08/15/2006 9:59:55 AM PDT by calex59 (Hillary Clinton is dumber than a one eyed monkey with a brain tumor(credit to Harley69))
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To: Cobra64

Apparently moving out of state also lands you in the "revoked" category...


18 posted on 08/15/2006 10:10:57 AM PDT by The Electrician ("Government is the only enterprise in the world which expands in size when its failures increase.")
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To: Beelzebubba; Fawn
My wife and I looked at the ultra lightweights in 9mm but the recoil is really nasty. It was impossible to fire a box of practice ammo in one session.

That said, she decided on her Sig P232 .380 in stainless. She never feels it wearing it in her Bianchi conceled holster.

Many LEOs carry this as their backup.

19 posted on 08/15/2006 10:11:57 AM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
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To: Beelzebubba

I've got a Kel Tech 9mm. It's kind of a pos. It has never misfired but it does eject the brass into my forehead, I'm left handed.


20 posted on 08/15/2006 10:15:46 AM PDT by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: mr_hammer
SIG 232, a little pricey though.

Agreed. See my post here. We think it's the ideal carry gun. As for price, yes it is pricey. On the other hand, a Benz is pricier than a Chevy.

If I were to carry one of the ultralights, I'd practice live fire with my P226 stainless in 9mm, and mostly dry fire the junior to reinforce its working characteristics. Then again, if I can't shoot one box of ammo in one session, then it's not for me. IMO

21 posted on 08/15/2006 10:19:27 AM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
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To: neverdem

The fact is that CCW holders are arrested at a lower rate than cops or clergymen.


22 posted on 08/15/2006 10:22:23 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam Factoid:After forcing young girls to watch his men execute their fathers, Muhammad raped them.)
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To: Spktyr
Remember that people need to practice with the arm they carry, and a weapon that's unpleasant to shoot won't be shot for practice much. That precludes the Airweight, and IMHO, just about all the snubby revolvers.

Ditto that. I almost never shoot .357 in my Ruger. I punch paper with .38 spl.

23 posted on 08/15/2006 10:25:35 AM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
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To: The Electrician
Apparently moving out of state also lands you in the "revoked" category...

Good point. That is another example of why I'd be curious as for the reasons for revocations.

24 posted on 08/15/2006 10:29:12 AM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
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To: tumblindice
I'd recommend the CZ P-01.

I'll second that recommendation and add a nod to the CZ RAMI for an even smaller package.

25 posted on 08/15/2006 10:32:45 AM PDT by AngryJawa ({NRA}{IDPA})
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To: Spktyr

Oh....Ok...well...I'd have a purse......


26 posted on 08/15/2006 10:43:47 AM PDT by Fawn
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To: tumblindice

Where is the best place to buy? Store or gun show?


27 posted on 08/15/2006 10:45:03 AM PDT by Fawn
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To: Cobra64
Many LEOs carry this as their backup.

Saw my signature did ya?

28 posted on 08/15/2006 10:46:51 AM PDT by Fawn
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To: Fawn
Saw my signature did ya?

It's very common on FR to include several folks in responses on the same topic.

29 posted on 08/15/2006 10:57:54 AM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
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To: AngryJawa; Fawn

Almost went with the RAMI, AJ, but got a good deal on a barely used P-01.
My new CZ-97 arrived the other day: glossy blue! `04, dealer had trouble locating. Beeyootiful piece but haven't been able to shoot it yet.
Fawn, I buy from an established gun dealer. You know where to find him if you need him.

(Just as I take my children to a reputable tattoo parlor ;-)


30 posted on 08/15/2006 11:00:12 AM PDT by tumblindice (America's Founding Fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: Fawn

Two words: Purse Snatcher.

Find somewhere else to hide your gun. :-P


31 posted on 08/15/2006 11:12:51 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: tumblindice

Good choice, but I like the earlier PCR model and the XD45 for winter carry (the CZ-97's grip is just toooo big).


32 posted on 08/15/2006 11:14:35 AM PDT by PCRit
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To: PCRit

I have big hands, but you're right--I still prefer the trigger in single action mode. It's a big boy, heavy, too, with the steel frame and loaded magazine.
I ordered a vertical shoulder holster from Ross. Do you have any recommendations for SOB carry? Some mfrs don't even make for CZs.


33 posted on 08/15/2006 11:31:09 AM PDT by tumblindice (America's Founding Fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: tumblindice

Sorry, can't help with SOB. I use a FIST K1 or K7 IWB.


34 posted on 08/15/2006 11:48:56 AM PDT by PCRit
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To: PCRit

Thanks. I've heard others recommend FIST, will check out.
I've got a Bianchi back holster for my hi-power I really like, but they don't make for CZ.


35 posted on 08/15/2006 12:12:19 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's Founding Fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: neverdem
The law requires sheriffs, whose offices issue the licenses, to suspend the license of anyone arrested or charged with certain crimes, including any felony, drug offense or domestic-violence offense. A court-issued protection order against the license-holder also results in suspension.

So a false accusation of domestic abuse from a bitter spouse going through a divorce will result in suspension.

36 posted on 08/15/2006 12:55:17 PM PDT by VRWCmember
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To: VRWCmember

A false accusation of domestic abuse from a bitter spouse in a divorce will result in you *losing your right to own firearms, period, without a fair trial* - see US v. Emerson. This is Federal law, and Ohio is just mirroring that.

Thank Chuckie Schumer for that one.


37 posted on 08/15/2006 1:04:04 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Fawn

I sell guns in South Florida. I think you are way out of my area, so I don't expect a sale, but Freepmail me.


38 posted on 08/15/2006 3:51:43 PM PDT by sig226 (There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who do not.)
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To: Spktyr

Thought that was Lautenberg?


39 posted on 08/15/2006 4:40:30 PM PDT by skepsel
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To: skepsel

Like they're not interchangeable...
(You're right, of course - Schumer did support it, though.)


40 posted on 08/15/2006 4:48:38 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: neverdem

When you consider that any sort of "domestic violence" (real or alleged) will end your license, and that divorce lawyers routinely advise women to allege domestic violence, I'm thinking that there's hardly any incidence of CCW holders committing real crimes


41 posted on 08/15/2006 4:54:34 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (A planned society is most appealing to those with the arrogance to think they will be the planners)
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To: Fawn

A Makarov type (PM-64, etc.) in .380 or original Soviet caliber (9x18?) is fairly compact, the weapon is surprisingly well made and you can find them on line for about $200 =/- $50.

I've have an Astra Constable, a CZ-50, a CZ-70, and a Yugo CZ MD 50 (not Czech even tho' it says CZ) and they were all pretty well made, pretty much all in .32 ACP. Almost forgot the little S&W/Walther P22.

I just liked the price and concealability of these weapons. I also have a Sig 230 in .380 and don't have any complaints about any of them. Recoil and concealment aren't big issues for me, I'm 6', 220 lbs.

Caliber is less important if you practice and can hit our aim point. I like to start at 25 yds and crank it in progressively closer until I'm firing from about 3 yds.

I like my 6" ss S@W 7 shot .357, blue 7" Ruger Black Hawk .44 mag and my 1911s too, but in South Florida they're a little hard to hide wearing a t-shirt and cargo shorts, LOL

Now if you want to talk some about long guns.....


42 posted on 08/15/2006 5:03:17 PM PDT by skepsel (Gun Nuts 'R' Us)
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To: Beelzebubba
I am not sure that a 9mm has enough stopping power.

I got my mom a .38 just because it was small and had an enclosed hammer (from Taurus) so it could be carried easier in a purse, but for real defense, I'd go for a 10mm, which is what I have.

43 posted on 08/15/2006 5:22:06 PM PDT by mbraynard (I don't even HAVE a mustache!)
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To: Fee
HiPoint C-9, compact 9mm. MSRP $ 140.00. Don't let the low price and ugly looks fool you. Very simple and reliable handgun with 8 round magazine at a very affordable price.

I wanted to like the Hi-Point. But I have yet to see one that you weren't clearing failure to fire rounds too regularly for my idea of reliability.

I would go with a good, used S&W Model 64 or Ruger SP100 and carry .38+P before I'd go with a low end semi-auto. If you can find one at a good price, I'd go fixed sights, stainless and 3" barrel for concealed carry.

44 posted on 08/15/2006 5:25:20 PM PDT by Ghengis (Alexander was a wuss!)
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To: mbraynard
I am not sure that a 9mm has enough stopping power.

I've been sold on the subsonic 147 gr. JHP rounds. A lot of folks like the lighter, hotter rounds.

I know guys who have seen the elephant in real firefights who carry 9mm every day. They don't feel bad about it.

45 posted on 08/15/2006 5:46:42 PM PDT by Ghengis (Alexander was a wuss!)
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To: Beelzebubba

Rorbaugh-Nice gun, but if I'm gonna spend that much, I would prefer one of the mid line 1911 .45s and spend another 250.00 on a Kel-tec


46 posted on 08/15/2006 5:49:29 PM PDT by 5Madman2 (There is no such thing as an experienced suicide bomber)
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To: skepsel

Wow...Thank you!


47 posted on 08/15/2006 6:27:20 PM PDT by Fawn
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To: Fawn
I've been carring this for over a year. Never had a bit of trouble with it. About 500 rounds through it now...

It's not a target pistol, but it's accurate enough. I can hold minute of paper plate at 7 yards, and much better closer. Weaighs about half a pound empty, 5" long at the slide, less than 3.5" tall and about 3/4" wide.

Works for me...

48 posted on 08/15/2006 6:34:52 PM PDT by kAcknor (Don't flatter yourself.... It is a gun in my pocket.)
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To: Fawn
Right. Weaighs = Weighs.

BTW it's a Kel-Tec P3AT first Generation. Newer ones have an external extractor but the size is the same. Cost is about $250.00

49 posted on 08/15/2006 6:39:04 PM PDT by kAcknor (Don't flatter yourself.... It is a gun in my pocket.)
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To: mbraynard

I am not sure that a 9mm has enough stopping power.



A 9 in your pocket out-stops a 10 you left at home.


50 posted on 08/15/2006 8:48:43 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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