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Feuding Minutemen only united on border woes (Simcox Minutemen)
Reuters ^ | Aug 16, 2006 | Tim Gaynor

Posted on 08/17/2006 1:18:46 AM PDT by Anti-Bubba182

PHOENIX (Reuters) - More than a year after their first stakeouts on the U.S.-Mexico border, Minuteman civilian patrol volunteers are divided and questions are being raised about whether their movement's influence is on the wane.

The Minutemen leaped into the media spotlight in April 2005 when its force of housewives, office workers and veterans camped out in lawn chairs in southern Arizona to spot illegal immigrants crossing from Mexico.

Sixteen months later, the founders of the movement have split acrimoniously, and questions swirl over how a breakaway group spent a reported $1.6 million in donations.

Dubbed vigilantes by President Bush and migrant hunters by Mexico, the activists seek to highlight what they say is the federal government's failure to provide security along the 2,000-mile (3,200-km) border and end illegal immigration.

The founder of the original Minuteman Project, Jim Gilchrist, 57, a retired accountant from California, is no longer speaking to his former ally Chris Simcox, with whom he planned the first patrols in Arizona.

Meanwhile, Simcox, an ex-teacher and newspaper publisher who leads the separate, Arizona-based Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, faces calls from some former members for a full audit of all donations made to his group.

They complained last month that the corps, a private corporation, had not published financial statements setting out how donations intended to buy equipment were spent, although Simcox vigorously denied any impropriety.

"These are just disgruntled individuals who are no longer with our organization who for some personal reason would like to tarnish our image," Simcox, 45, told Reuters in a telephone interview.

"We have hired accountants and auditors ... to handle all the money, and we're in fine shape," he said.

Simcox added that all questions about the use of donations would be settled in November, when the group posts its tax returns with the Internal Revenue Service.

IS MESSAGE WEARING THIN?

The movement has never counted more than a few thousand volunteers, but analysts say it has proved influential in setting a national agenda on border security and immigration enforcement.

Since the patrols began, Bush has sent 6,200 National Guard troops to help secure the border, and Congress has approved funds to recruit thousands more Border Patrol agents.

But in recent weeks, media attention has focused more on the group's woes than on the pro-enforcement message it seeks to push.

In July the Washington Times questioned their financial accounts. Then last week the Arizona Republic newspaper weighed in, publishing details of their feud and declaring that the "honeymoon is over for the Minutemen."

While the two leaders are pushing on with separate activities -- Simcox is building a border wall on private ranchland in Arizona, and Gilchrist plans a stakeout near Laredo, Texas, starting next month -- critics warn that their trusted formula for grabbing headlines may be wearing thin.

"They have been very good at maintaining the media's attention, but I think things are starting to turn for them," said Ray Borane, the mayor of Douglas, Arizona, near where they held their first patrols. "They are running out of tricks in their bag."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; immigration; minuteman; mmp; simcox
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All of this has to be hurting fundraising.
1 posted on 08/17/2006 1:18:48 AM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Amelia; unsycophant; catholicfreeper; Rex Anderson; Texasforever; Howlin; onyx; PDR; nopardons; ...

ping


2 posted on 08/17/2006 1:19:38 AM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Anti-Bubba182

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....another article? This IS getting some notice now, I see.


3 posted on 08/17/2006 1:23:20 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: nopardons

Their problems are becoming more public.


4 posted on 08/17/2006 1:26:55 AM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: nopardons
It's Reuters, so it's got to be true.

LOL.

L

5 posted on 08/17/2006 1:34:48 AM PDT by Lurker (I support Israel without reservation. Hizbollah must be destroyed to the last man.)
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To: Anti-Bubba182

As they should be!


6 posted on 08/17/2006 1:38:46 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: Lurker

In this instance, it IS true.


7 posted on 08/17/2006 1:39:11 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: nopardons
In this instance, it IS true.

The only thing Reuters needs to add is some doctored photos and a pic or two of Green Helmet guy doing the accounting.

LOL!

L

8 posted on 08/17/2006 1:40:50 AM PDT by Lurker (I support Israel without reservation. Hizbollah must be destroyed to the last man.)
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To: Lurker
LOL

But seriously, this thing with the MCDC is very serious nd it is hurting the MMs outside of his jurisdictions. There's NO good reason why THEY should be tarred by the same brush, that Simcox, alone, has brought down upon himself.

9 posted on 08/17/2006 1:45:41 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: nopardons; Anti_Bubba

I love this quote"We have hired accountants and auditors ... to handle all the money, and we're in fine shape," he said"

Ok then we have these quotes:


From the Washington Times:
"Mr. Simcox, who has been criticized by current and former MCDC members for a lack of leadership and financial accountability, had referred The Times to Mrs. Otis, saying she could "tell you everything" to clear up the concerns. Instead, Mrs. Otis issued a statement saying only that all Minuteman donations have been "securely collected, counted and deposited" in MCDC bank accounts ."

and

"Maureen E. Otis -- president of American Caging Inc. in Stafford, Texas, an agency hired to collect, deposit and disburse donations to the civilian border-patrol group -- told The Washington Times that neither MCDC President Chris Simcox nor the group's board of directors had given her permission to "disclose any numbers"

From the Arizona Free Republic.

"Simcox estimated that MCDC has raised $1 million, plus about $600,000 to build fencing along the border but said that he can't be sure of the amount. He said the organization hired accountants and consultants in 2005 and set up a "caging" account controlled by a lawyer to ensure that donations were handled property."

"Board member and Executive Director Al Garza said he has no idea about its finances. When asked how much money his organization has received in contributions, Garza said: "Oh, geez, I don't know. I don't make it my business. I refuse to even ask for the figures. . . . They're donations being well spent, I can tell you that." "Only our auditors and our caging company know exactly how much we've raised," he said. "It's not my job. That's why we've hired the best independent auditors."


10 posted on 08/17/2006 1:46:32 AM PDT by catholicfreeper
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To: catholicfreeper
What a damned mess this MCDC all is and Simcox is just another snake oil salesman.
11 posted on 08/17/2006 1:50:46 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: nopardons
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

If there's any criminal wrongdoing I'm sure the proper authorities will convene a Grand Jury and try to get indictments. If they've swindled folks somehow I hope they get the book tossed at them.

But what I am going to do is take a wait and see attitude about this. I'm sure as hell not going to take Reuters or the AP at their word.

Sorry for the delay in my response. I've got some ESDA folks out working a fire.

L

12 posted on 08/17/2006 1:51:20 AM PDT by Lurker (I support Israel without reservation. Hizbollah must be destroyed to the last man.)
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To: Anti-Bubba182

as a general rule, graft is a universal concept. it really does take a charismatic leader/ideologue in control of the purse to cut down on the highest-level graft in any organization.


13 posted on 08/17/2006 1:53:38 AM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: nopardons

Well I am going to make a phone call to certain "golfer" and his thing he has got going and see I can confirm what we talked about earlier


14 posted on 08/17/2006 1:53:54 AM PDT by catholicfreeper
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To: Anti-Bubba182
Dubbed vigilantes by President Bush

Kinda, sort, not really. The Minutemen aren't vigilantes because they aren't directly involving themselves in law enforcement actions. They're more like a real time tip line for the Border Patrol, and the MM have strict policies about avoiding contact and confrontation with the illegals.

The President referred generally to vigilantes not being welcome along the border. Since the Minutemen have not become vigilantes, the are not covered by the President's statements.

But even so, the MM need to confront their administrative issues and deal with questions as to the handling of the donated funds. Until those questions are answered, it will be difficult for many people who like the movement to trust the organization with more donations.

15 posted on 08/17/2006 1:55:58 AM PDT by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: Lurker
The hard info isn't to be found in AP and Reuters articles...yet. It IS easily found here on FR, though.

The caging firm, that Simcox is using, is in BIG trouble. It has subpoenas out on it and Otis is hiding from the police and won't open the office door. Do you know that, or are you going to believe, hook, line, and sinker, the lies Chris and his "spokespeople" are feeding you?

The IRS will get Simcox before there's a "GRAND JURY".

Is it a big fire?

16 posted on 08/17/2006 2:06:20 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: catholicfreeper

Good luck! :-)


17 posted on 08/17/2006 2:07:08 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: Anti-Bubba182
"Dubbed vigilantes by President Bush and migrant hunters by Mexico"

Who did they arrest or lynch?
Al Reuters had better stick to faking pictures.
They still suck at that too.
It's just that they suck even more at their stories.
The Minutemen should be strongly commended for doing what they can to help stop illegal immigration.
18 posted on 08/17/2006 2:13:15 AM PDT by Jameison
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To: Anti-Bubba182

These whiners/sour grapes former Minutement are really jerks. For whatever reason, they couldn't cut it. Now they're damaging the effort while the opponents of the group stand by grinning from ear to ear.


19 posted on 08/17/2006 2:14:52 AM PDT by Jezebelle (Our tax dollars are paying the ACLU to sue the Christ out of us.)
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To: Jameison

The MCDC has done NOTHING at all to stop illegal migration; NOTHING.


20 posted on 08/17/2006 2:15:54 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: nopardons
"The MCDC has done NOTHING at all to stop illegal migration"

And Saddam Hussein is still in power in Iraq too.
And oh, 1+1 is equal to 11 as well, while you are about it.
21 posted on 08/17/2006 2:19:27 AM PDT by Jameison
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To: nopardons

Lies? Such as?


22 posted on 08/17/2006 2:19:30 AM PDT by Jezebelle (Our tax dollars are paying the ACLU to sue the Christ out of us.)
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To: nopardons

Bull. They've done a great job of raising awareness of the troubles on the border, the damage the crossing illegals do and the crimes they commit, and the cost of taking care of these people.

They have no authority to DO anything directly to physically stop illegals from entering, but they do report them and they do have a significant influence on public awareness. That's more than I can say about their critics such as yourself.


23 posted on 08/17/2006 2:24:50 AM PDT by Jezebelle (Our tax dollars are paying the ACLU to sue the Christ out of us.)
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To: Jezebelle
Exactly right.
"nopardons" is smoking crack.
24 posted on 08/17/2006 2:26:34 AM PDT by Jameison
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To: Jameison

......and it's not the first time.


25 posted on 08/17/2006 2:33:04 AM PDT by Jezebelle (Our tax dollars are paying the ACLU to sue the Christ out of us.)
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To: nopardons
Your Government The MCDC has done NOTHING at all to stop illegal migration; NOTHING.
26 posted on 08/17/2006 3:22:11 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: Anti-Bubba182

The world is crumbling down around Simcox.


27 posted on 08/17/2006 5:33:47 AM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (There is no alternative to the GOP except varying degrees of insanity.)
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To: Jameison; nopardons
"nopardons" is smoking crack.

Jameison, you should ping the person your talking about.

28 posted on 08/17/2006 5:35:13 AM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (There is no alternative to the GOP except varying degrees of insanity.)
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To: agere_contra
Your Government The MCDC has done NOTHING at all to stop illegal migration; NOTHING.

Naturally.  It's not in their best interest.

 

29 posted on 08/17/2006 5:37:41 AM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (There is no alternative to the GOP except varying degrees of insanity.)
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To: Anti-Bubba182; Amelia; unsycophant; catholicfreeper; Rex Anderson; Texasforever; Howlin; onyx; ...
SNIP They complained last month that the corps, a private corporation, had not published financial statements setting out how donations intended to buy equipment were spent, although Simcox vigorously denied any impropriety.

which is it -- are they a private corporation (for-profit) or are they a non-profit corporation whose receipts are federal tax exempt... they seemed to have claimed both, whichever is convenient. if they are a non-profit, federal tax exempt, they need to make their records available on demand. if they're a private corporation without tax exempt status, they need to be licensed by the state in which they operate. if you ask me, they are on real thin ice -- and it only makes the rest of us look bad when it blows up.

30 posted on 08/17/2006 7:42:32 AM PDT by PDR
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To: agere_contra

LOL! Good one! :>


31 posted on 08/17/2006 8:09:05 AM PDT by Jezebelle (Our tax dollars are paying the ACLU to sue the Christ out of us.)
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To: PDR

I think private.....because they were saying something on O'Reilly last night about the donations not being tax-deductible.

Anyway, I think they are doing us a service and deserve to not have conservatives who favor immigration control go off half-cocked listening to Reuters and so on stir the pot until they publics their audit.


32 posted on 08/17/2006 8:12:55 AM PDT by Jezebelle (Our tax dollars are paying the ACLU to sue the Christ out of us.)
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To: Jezebelle

which will be when.... they have made promises on this on which they have not delivered... the ball is in their court. if former allies are raising questions, then they must expect those questions to continue until they themselves come up with the answers.


33 posted on 08/17/2006 9:04:18 AM PDT by PDR
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To: PDR

Simcox said November. Three months from now. Big deal.


34 posted on 08/17/2006 12:04:41 PM PDT by Jezebelle (Our tax dollars are paying the ACLU to sue the Christ out of us.)
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To: Jezebelle

And before that he said October 2005 and April of 2006 so, yeah: IT'S A BIG DEAL.


35 posted on 08/17/2006 12:20:13 PM PDT by PDR
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To: PDR

Well people cannot hide their heads in the sand about this much longer. This is gaining steam and fast I think. I suspect that many news organizations are coming here and to other conservative places to find out what is happening. Of course that story will never be know in print.


36 posted on 08/17/2006 12:32:56 PM PDT by catholicfreeper
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To: Jameison
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwww...you really are having a problem handling the truth, aren't you. Pity that..........
37 posted on 08/17/2006 2:09:45 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Jezebelle
What lies? Oh, nothing much....just that the MCDC was going to build an Israeli style fence, but only built a 2.2 mile cattle fence, that they stopped work on that fence ( which WAS finished at the time of the following announcement ), because the heat was too high to build any more of it, then saying that it didn't matter that the cattle fence wasn't what had been promised, because it was "SYMBOLIC."

Then, there is the wee point that Simcox has been saying that donations to the MCDC is tax deductible, but they aren't, and then back tracking on that. Add to that, that he claimed that he used donation money to pay for equipment that he never bought, because they were DONATED, and taking many pictures, at different angles, of equipment, trying to pass them off as a lot MORE equipment.

Of course there is also his latest statements to O'Reilly and in print, that he's using the top companies for everything. The caging company is NOT even licensed in Texas, is under subpoena, the owner is hiding from the police, and is also in trouble with the IRS.

There's a lot more............go read the older threads about this.

38 posted on 08/17/2006 2:19:40 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Jezebelle
You're delusional and keep breaking FR's posting rules. I don't care whose friend you are...you need to watch your language here and stop imagining that you know anything other than what's going on with the Duke case.
39 posted on 08/17/2006 2:21:39 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Anti-Bubba182
WHERE'S THE FENCE SIMCOX?!?!?!?!?

40 posted on 08/17/2006 2:22:25 PM PDT by MikefromOhio (aka MikeinIraq - I BEEEEEEELLLLLLIIEEEEVVVEEEEEEE in the conspiracy of the flying knee....)
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To: Jameison; Jezebelle
You two should include those whom you flame, in the header. This IS a FR rule.

And since you both believe this slur to be true, then one can only assume that the both of are addicts.

41 posted on 08/17/2006 2:23:54 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: catholicfreeper
Board member and Executive Director Al Garza said he has no idea about its finances. When asked how much money his organization has received in contributions, Garza said: "Oh, geez, I don't know. I don't make it my business. I refuse to even ask for the figures.[...]It's not my job.

Um.

Well ...

Um.

Someone needs to educate Mr. Garza on what it means (or should mean) to be a board member and executive director. It damn sure is his job to know where the money comes from and where it goes. If you're not prepared to stand behind the papers you sign, don't take the gig.

Typically, boards of directors have been split into two categories -- buddies of Management or famous names who get a few bucks for doing nothing but lending their names. BS. If you want my name on the letterhead, if you want to call me a director, I'm gonna direct -- and if you lie or withhold information, be prepared to find my boot in your ass.

42 posted on 08/17/2006 2:24:33 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: agere_contra

WRONG! But keep on thinking that. LOL


43 posted on 08/17/2006 2:24:36 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: BigSkyFreeper

Thanks. :-)


44 posted on 08/17/2006 2:25:12 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: PDR
Flip, flop, flip, flop, flip, flop...............

Simcox called the MCDC a non-profit when it isn't and not, when he wants to hide the figures.

45 posted on 08/17/2006 2:27:57 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Anti-Bubba182
While the two leaders are pushing on with separate activities -- Simcox is building a border wall on private ranchland in Arizona

Fact check please - where's the wall? And no, 2.5 miles of barbed wire cattle fence isn't an "Israeli style border fence" which is how they advertise for donations. A 2.5 mile barbed wire cattle fence also doesn't cost $1.6 million which Simcox himself claims they have raised. Who knows how much they've really taken in.

46 posted on 08/17/2006 2:51:25 PM PDT by Ms. AntiFeminazi (Keyes Akbar!)
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To: nopardons

You wouldn't know the truth if it hit ya between the eyes.


47 posted on 08/17/2006 4:52:48 PM PDT by Jameison
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To: nopardons
# 1. There was no flaming. Just a reference to an activity you partake of, often.

# 2. Since you are in a perpetual haze, your sense of judgment about anyone, is not exactly believable, is it?
48 posted on 08/17/2006 4:56:40 PM PDT by Jameison
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To: Jameison
Boorish little n00b, you are the one for whom facts are fraud and delusion is "fact".

When you finally return from your dazed and benumbed fantasy life, you'll be in for quite a shock. LOL

49 posted on 08/17/2006 5:21:28 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Jameison
Only people who are incapable of debating me/refuting me, make spurious claims about activities that they probably partake in, but which I never have done. Many thanks for proving just what and who you are.

BTW...what you keep posting IS considered to be FLAMING here and against posting rules.

50 posted on 08/17/2006 5:25:48 PM PDT by nopardons
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