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BOSNIA: 1,000 BODIES EXCAVATED IN RECORD MASS GRAVE
AKI/VPR ^ | Aug-17-06 | (Vpr/Aki)

Posted on 08/18/2006 1:09:26 AM PDT by Westlander

Forensic experts have excavated over 1,000 bodies from a mass grave in the village of Kamenica in eastern Bosnia.

(Excerpt) Read more at adnki.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antichristian; appeasement; balkans; bodies; bosnia; clintonians; clintonlegacy; grave; islamofascists; jihad; massgrave; wot; wrongplace; wrongplaceislam; wrongside; wrongtime; wrongwar
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1 posted on 08/18/2006 1:09:29 AM PDT by Westlander
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To: Westlander
Unreal.

What a world.

2 posted on 08/18/2006 1:14:34 AM PDT by beyond the sea (The truth exists even when ignored.)
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To: Wraith; Mabel; joan; Bokababe

This is interesting and may be legit. However, the timing seems odd.

"The victims had clearly been brought from another location and reburied in Kamenica, and in an attempt to hide the crime, said Hurtic. A total 1,153 bodies have been excavated since digging began at the start of June, Hurtic said."

The previous statement is the odd part of it......Also, the reported mass grave in Vidomiric has me a little perplexed. I was not aware of this one as I arrived in Kosovo mid-October.

French arrest four in Kosova mass grave case

Prishtina, Sept 28 (Reuters) - French forces have arrested four men suspected of involvement in the abduction of ethnic Albanians whose bodies were later found in a mass grave, peacekeepers said on Tuesday.

The KFOR peacekeeping force said seven of the 28 bodies in the grave had so far been identified as being from a group of 23 men from the same street in the city of Mitrovica.

The men were reported missing after a raid by alleged Serb paramilitaries on Popovic Street in April.

``Men were separated from women and children, and 23 were abducted and maybe killed on the same day in Mitrovica but later buried out of town,'' said Colonel Claude Vicaire, the head of the French gendarmerie unit which investigated the case.


3 posted on 08/18/2006 1:23:57 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Westlander
Forensic experts have excavated over 1,000 bodies from a mass grave

Failed attempt by Serbs to eclipse Sadam Hussein's Guiness World record?

4 posted on 08/18/2006 1:24:37 AM PDT by NilesJo
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To: NilesJo

Sorry. Hitler owns that one, and that's one record I really don't want to see anyone try to tie, let alone break.


5 posted on 08/18/2006 1:36:02 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Westlander

In her book Islam and Dhimmitude: Where Civilizations Collide published in 2002, Bat Ye'or made the following comments about the historical antecedents to the dispute between Muslims and Christians in the Balkans:

“To anyone with some knowledge of the centuries-old history of Serbian resistance to Ottoman domination, it was obvious that the return of a form of Islamic power in Bosnia- Herzegovina would be rejected by Orthodox Serbs. The five centuries of "harmonious and peaceful coexistence” under Islamic rule, cited by Bosnian President Alija Izetbegovic belong to the theological dogma of the perfection of the shari'a and the dhimmi For the Orthodox Serbs, however, this same period is considered one of massacre, pillage, slavery, deportation, and the exile of Christian populations. In their eyes it was a regime which found its justification in the usurpation of their land and denial of their rights; hence it represented the exact opposite of a peaceful, multicultural coexistence based on a system of social and political justice. Thus, two conceptions of history clashed, having never before been confronted. On the one hand, there is the version the dhimmi victims; on the other, that of the conquerors, through jihad.


In their wars of emancipation-and, later, of liberation-the Orthodox Serbs found that their bitterest adversaries were their Muslim compatriots attached to their religious privileges and their domination over the humiliated Christians. During World War II Axis forces invaded Yugoslavia and sponsored the creation of a Nazi Croat state (Ustashi) with which many Bosnian Muslims cooperated. At the prompting of the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husayni, they formed military corps, including the 13th (Hanjar) Waffen SS Division, some of which were trained in France. Early in the war, these Muslim Slavs actively participated in the policies of the Ustashi Croats and Nazis in the genocide of hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Serbs, Jews, and gypsies. Even their German allies were shocked by the bestial atrocities committed then in Yugoslavia.

The Nazis encouraged secessionist claims by Muslims, some of whose leaders cited the traditional peaceful coexistence under Islam to denounce later these atrocities which they imputed to the Croats-although Muslim participation in the massacres was notorious. In fact, these allegations aimed at exploiting the inter-Christian conflicts between Catholic Croats and Orthodox Serbs which had facilitated Islam's expansion for a millennium.


Under the authoritarian Communist rule of Tito-a Croat-the Muslim religion benefited from being recognized as Muslim nationality. It was the only group defined by religious criteria, whereas others were characterized by their ethnic differences. The deliberate policy of allowing the Islamization of the Orthodox Serbian homeland (Kosovo and Bosnia-Herzegovina) to continue also earned Tito the economic and political support of the Islamic world and perpetuated inter-Christian schisms. The communist dogma of human brotherhood once again froze the conflicts without resolving them. In 1991, before the conflict erupted, the English edition of Alija Izetbegovic's Islamic Declaration (1970) was published in Sarajevo. It specifically stated: "There can be neither peace nor coexistence between Arabia, the cradle of Islam and non-Islamic social and political institutions." And his conclusion affirmed:


'The Islamic movement must, and can, take over power as soon as it is morally and numerically so strong that it can not only destroy the existing non- Islamic power, but also build up a new Islamic one’.


Underneath the camouflage of "the multicultural Islamic state" and the "five hundred years of peaceful coexistence," Bosnian Serbs recognized the shari'a system which had decimated them. Hence, the cruelty of the fighting in Bosnia reflected the historical confrontation which, instead of being settled by dialogue, erupted in hatred. Its barbarity expresses the revenge of repressed history, a parody of the distorted myth of idyllic coexistence. Izetbegovic described the Canadian UN commander, Major-General Lewis W. MacKenzie, as "an ignorant man" for his statement in New York that:
‘both sides’ in the war were filled with hatred. According to Izetbegovic, this could only have been said by someone who knew nothing of Sarajevo's Muslims and their ‘500-year tradition of tolerance’.
Izetbegovic's reference to an "Ottoman paradise" scandalized Serbs, Greeks, and Armenians. Innocent individuals regardless of religion have become victims of a past which, because it was buried in silence, vengefully returns, accompanied by appalling acts of violence. Those responsible are the politicians who, to safeguard their own interests, tried to impose the myth of tolerance on their victims”.

http://lamar.colostate.edu/~grjan/kosovohistory.html


6 posted on 08/18/2006 2:07:00 AM PDT by KDD (A wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse.)
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To: Spktyr
Hitler owns that one, and that's one record I really don't want to see anyone try to tie, let alone break.

Jinghiz Khan owns the record for sheer speed and efficiency. In 1221, he captured the city of Herat and massacred every man, woman, and child in it, an estimated 1.6 million in a week. If he hadn't run out of bodies he would have hit Hitler's Jewish murders in a month.

7 posted on 08/18/2006 2:21:55 AM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: Spktyr
The understandings of the United States and its NATO allies about the history of the Balkans unfortunately does not appear to include events prior to Tito's death in 1980, and Milosevec's ascendancy to the Presidency of Serbia in 1987. These events have been described above. However, as Bat Ye'or wrote, also described above, to the Serbs, the five preceeding centuries consisted of massacres, pillage, slavery and exile of Christians on the part of Muslims during the Islamic assault into Europe. When Aliya Izetbegovic, the leader of the Muslim faction in Bosnia stated in 1970: There can be neither peace nor coexistence between Arabia, the cradle of Islam and non-Islamic social and political institutions." and "The Islamic movement must, and can, take over power as soon as it is morally and numerically so strong that it can not only destroy the existing non- Islamic power, but also build up a new Islamic one", it should have set off alarm bells in the Capitals of Europe.

But it didn't. In the Bosnian wars of 1992-5 Muslim, Croat (Catholic) and Serb (Orthodox) factions fought for control of Bosnia. The United States intervened in the conflict decisively with air power on the side of the Muslims. The result was the Dayton Peace Accords, negotiated in Dayton, Ohio ansd signed in Paris September 14, 1995. These accords were signed by the Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina, the Republic of Croatia, and the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. The accords set up a Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina consisting of two entities: a Croation-Muslim Federation and a Republica Srpska.

This arrangement has failed the test of time. In October 2002 an article in the International Herald Tribune realistically suggested that it is time to admit defeat. There is no Nation-State of Bosnia-Herzegovina, instead there are, in fact, three separate entities, since a Croat-Muslim Federation is as much a delusion as a country of Bosnia-Herzegovina. This in spite of billions of dollars of international aid, Western involvement in governance and Western troops. More than half the pre-war population was displaced during the 1992-1995 war and as of 1998 fewer than 15% had returned, in spite of the fact that return of refugees was a priority of the Dayton Accords.

8 posted on 08/18/2006 2:23:05 AM PDT by KDD (A wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse.)
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To: Spktyr
Hitler owns that one...

Not for Muslims.

9 posted on 08/18/2006 2:53:13 AM PDT by NilesJo
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To: Westlander; KDD

Interesting. Thanks for your posts KDD. Informative/educational.


10 posted on 08/18/2006 3:10:13 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: Westlander

Bush's fault


11 posted on 08/18/2006 3:11:57 AM PDT by strange1 ("Show the enemy harm so he shall not advance" Sun Tzu The Art of War)
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To: Westlander

Clinton's dumbass war gets no condemnation from the peace wussies???


12 posted on 08/18/2006 3:16:52 AM PDT by tkathy (Einstein: Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.)
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To: KDD
Thank you.

The old adage about "those who ignore history" has morphed into "those who are ignorant of history."

Given the current level of ignorance, it's becoming increasingly difficult to believe that we are not doomed to repeat the tragedy of Kosovo on a much wider scale.

13 posted on 08/18/2006 3:33:35 AM PDT by browardchad
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To: KDD

Thanks.


14 posted on 08/18/2006 4:12:54 AM PDT by AncientAirs
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To: Westlander

I was stationed outside Srebrenica in 2001. Where is Kamenica? I don't recall that name off the top of my head.

Is it south by Vlasenica or farther north towards Bijelina?


15 posted on 08/18/2006 4:20:37 AM PDT by Terabitten (The only time you can have too much ammunition is when you're swimming.)
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To: Terabitten

After some quick googling, I found that Kamenica is also known as Crna Rijeka - Black River if my memory serves.


16 posted on 08/18/2006 4:22:54 AM PDT by Terabitten (The only time you can have too much ammunition is when you're swimming.)
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To: KDD

We are reaping the havoc of the klinton legacy. Our children and their children will be trying to undo his evil deeds.


17 posted on 08/18/2006 4:24:23 AM PDT by OldFriend (I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag.....and My Heart to the Soldier Who Protects It.)
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To: Westlander; Bokababe; FormerLib; kronos77

Bump


18 posted on 08/18/2006 4:26:23 AM PDT by Incorrigible (If I lead, follow me; If I pause, push me; If I retreat, kill me.)
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To: NilesJo

Didn't those in the grave live by the rule that the Serbs would either be dhimmi or die?


19 posted on 08/18/2006 4:37:06 AM PDT by houeto (Isn't 1400 years of the same shi'ite enough?)
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To: tgambill

Ping


20 posted on 08/18/2006 4:46:09 AM PDT by GarySpFc (Jesus on Immigration, John 10:1)
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To: NilesJo
These bodies may very well be Serb victims from WWII or other wars - including the last one. Serbs were massacred in Kamenica and the loss of life was much greater in WWII and WWI in Bosnia than the last one - with relatively very little searching for and recovery of the bodies. Tito often prevented recovery of bodies in the interest of "Brotherhood and Unity" - Serbs were supposed to forget what the Ustashi (which did operate in Eastern Bosnia and included Croats) did to them.

They are also counting PARTS and INCOMPLETE bodies/skeletons separately in the 1,000 number. Considering one body can break up into a dozen parts or more, they are likely counting individuals numerous times.

21 posted on 08/18/2006 5:18:29 AM PDT by joan
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1

"Jinghiz Khan owns the record for sheer speed and efficiency"

Yes, he sure did....One of Genghis Khan's famous sayings....

"The Greatest Happiness is to scatter your enemy and drive him before you. To see his cities reduced to ashes. To see those who love him shrouded and in tears. And to gather to your bosom his wives and daughters."
-Genghis Khan



I've also heard it put...

The greatest happiness is do drive your enemy before you, reduce his cities to ashes and gather to you bosum his wives and daughters....

GK


22 posted on 08/18/2006 5:20:45 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Terabitten

there is also a Kamenica in the Northeast corner of Kosovo on the Serbian Border.....not to be confused with this one of course.


23 posted on 08/18/2006 5:21:55 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: NilesJo
If these are actually Muslims - they haven't been identified, and the Muslim spokesperson will automatically claim them to be Muslims.

And if you are sure that the 1,000 incomplete parts are all definitely from separate people, which is unlikely.

24 posted on 08/18/2006 5:22:09 AM PDT by joan
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To: NilesJo
How many Iraqis did the U.S. mass bury (some buried alive) at the end of the first Gulf War?

Didn't the U.S. bulldoze men in their trenches?

25 posted on 08/18/2006 5:23:42 AM PDT by joan
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1

Are you saying that in the year 1221, the population of Herat, Afghanistan was 1.6 million? 50,000 would be more likely.


26 posted on 08/18/2006 5:26:57 AM PDT by since 1854
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To: KDD; joan

"an article in the International Herald Tribune realistically suggested that it is time to admit defeat"

****It worse than that. It isn't a defeat. It has worked so far, according to plan. The plan is to prolong the conflict, achieve independent Kosovo to further destablize the area. The next success will be separating Western Macedonia and destablize Serbia by starting more conflicts in Southern Serbia. With an Independent Kosovo, the KLA (yes, they still exist and always have since the ploy to disarm was sold to the public)....the rebels will have a home base that now becomes soverign territory. So, much more difficult to pursue or fight. They failed to destablize Macedonia in 2001 timeframe with the rumored "Spring Offensive" that never really got off the ground. We, contracted MPRI to work with the Macedonian Military on one side and covertly MPRI to advise the NLA on the other. Such a web we weave........

The main and final target, control the pipelines and destablize the Russian states even more so that Russia cannot regain her power back. Clark was countermanded and not supported when he almost ordered attacking the Russians when they took control of the the Pristina Airport. Really stupid idea.......and it showed his true intention. I also understand he was relieved of his position....however, I don't have the details.

We were the initiators of the Balkans war. Our iniation was bringing the Muh. to Bosnia, stirring the pot, causing Milosevic to respond for one of two reasons. One; he turned his back on the CIA after he left New York and became a nationalist...or, two; he was in agreement with the start of this war and it was planned out to happen this way to start the ball rolling... anyway, there is much more and the beat just goes on...

Joan has a very good point. That is why I was curious in my post about this article. 600 bodies were found in Serbia, that were allegedly found as part of a massacre. The UN delayed ever turning over the bodies, however when they did release bodies, on hand, leg, etc...equaled a body. So, if a family received a body part said to be that of Uncle Bob, you can imagine the laughter when they knew Uncle Bob was living in NY after they made claim he was killed by the Serbs. Many were killed by NATO's bombing.......KLA, and Serbian paramilitaries......


27 posted on 08/18/2006 5:40:06 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: GarySpFc

ping


28 posted on 08/18/2006 5:42:53 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Spktyr

Sorry Dude but Stalin has the record of about 21 million...


29 posted on 08/18/2006 5:48:42 AM PDT by Wraith (To have peace prepare for War.)
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To: Westlander; All
Naser Oric, Muslim Commander of Srebrenica was found guilty for warcrimes commited against Christian Serbs that led to revenge attack on Srebrenica by Serbs. He, the Muslim commander that caused TWO slaughters , first under his direct orders slaughtering Christian Serbs, and second when Serb soldiers, mostly familly members and relatives of slaughtered Christians attacked his stronghold at Srebrenica and slaughtered some 3,000 mostly his combatants, so He, the guy that started it all, WAS convicted for warcrimes on sentence of 3 (THREE) years in prisson!!! Due to the fact that he was over 3 years in prisson allready, he was imidiatly released from UN custody unit. Frankly my dear, I would‚t care if they found 1,000,000 muslim bodies. In Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan or Iraq.
30 posted on 08/18/2006 5:59:23 AM PDT by kronos77 (www.savekosovo.org say NO to Al-Qaeda new sanctuary (Go IDF!))
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To: Wraith

In forementioned Bosnia, forementioned Muslims and they croate allies are still holding the record. last time thay fought Serbs, thay found they suggardaddy in Hitler, and killed in total some 800,000 Christian Serbs.
No on of nazi murderers were arrested, and hatenance lasted until new war in 1992 broke out, this time Muslims and croates finding new suggardaddy in shape of Bill Clinton.

The rest is history, not finished, nor it ewer be finished.


31 posted on 08/18/2006 6:02:40 AM PDT by kronos77 (www.savekosovo.org say NO to Al-Qaeda new sanctuary (Go IDF!))
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To: tgambill
In Kosovo they often go to sites where NATO heavily bombed and was said to kill Albanians during the war - because they know there will be bodies, but they turn all the deaths into being a massacre by Serbs.

Yet photos taken from the scene after NATO's bombing clearly shows the people died from bombs - not bullets - one only has to look at their injuries.

You will see for instance - a man with thoroughly mangled legs below the knees - yet no bleeding or injury about the head or chest.

But propaganda says they were killed by bullets.

Istok prisoners 'were massacred by Serbs'

So one must wonder why NATO bombed the prison - to stop Serbs from shooting the prisoners???

32 posted on 08/18/2006 6:02:41 AM PDT by joan
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To: joan

Gimme some of those bullets, there are still some muslims there!


33 posted on 08/18/2006 6:05:44 AM PDT by kronos77 (www.savekosovo.org say NO to Al-Qaeda new sanctuary (Go IDF!))
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To: houeto

Here's a little 3 minute video made by a Bosnian Muslim. Most of the visuals are in English and the second half really tells the story to the 40+% of Bosnia's Christians and to Christian Serbia who is 80+% Christian. It basically tells Serbia that "you are next to be Islamicized!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrcaed9nDmo


34 posted on 08/18/2006 6:29:50 AM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Spktyr

Stalin's got Hitler beat in numbers.


35 posted on 08/18/2006 7:05:52 AM PDT by SampleMan
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To: since 1854
Are you saying that in the year 1221, the population of Herat, Afghanistan was 1.6 million? 50,000 would be more likely.

Yes indeed it was.

36 posted on 08/18/2006 7:06:27 AM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: KDD

http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level_English.php?cat=Politics&loid=8.0.331731504&par=0

Just got this one...relative to my last post, check this out. just like clockwork.....


37 posted on 08/18/2006 7:40:09 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Wraith

I was gonna say, the Commies make the Nazis look like amateurs.


38 posted on 08/18/2006 8:44:20 AM PDT by TheDon (The Democratic Party is the party of TREASON!)
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To: TheDon

To think that Stalin was on the side of the Allies during the second world war. Talk about dancing with the devil...


39 posted on 08/18/2006 9:24:39 AM PDT by Wraith (To have peace prepare for War.)
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To: TheDon

I wouldnt say so. I live in Serbia, country that suffered a lot under communism, but that lost 800,000 man, woman and children killed by nazis.

You just cant imagine how it is to be prosecuted nation. maybe just Jews and Slavs can.


40 posted on 08/18/2006 9:34:26 AM PDT by kronos77 (www.savekosovo.org say NO to Al-Qaeda new sanctuary (Go IDF!))
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To: Wraith

Nope my friend. For mass killers, here are the top three:

(1) MAO - More than Hitler and Stalin put together and his damn government is still in power

(2) Stalin

(3) Hitler (Hitler had a much shorter term in office due to that "take over the world" thing).


41 posted on 08/18/2006 9:40:10 AM PDT by ohioman
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To: ohioman

and Tutsi-Huttu war in Rwanda? ONE MILLION killed in 4 weeks!


42 posted on 08/18/2006 9:56:24 AM PDT by kronos77 (www.savekosovo.org say NO to Al-Qaeda new sanctuary (Go IDF!))
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To: ohioman

my list

1. Hitler
2. Pol Pot
3. Stalin
4. Ante Pavelic (Croate WWII nazi ally, killed 800,000 Serbs)

Stalin and rest of gang... small kids comparing to them.


43 posted on 08/18/2006 9:58:00 AM PDT by kronos77 (www.savekosovo.org say NO to Al-Qaeda new sanctuary (Go IDF!))
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1

It's not very likely that Herat, Afghanistan had a population of 1.6 million.

Experts say the very largest cities at that time were in China and were around half a million.

Largest Cities Through History
http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa011201a.htm


44 posted on 08/18/2006 10:11:30 AM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: kronos77

Croats killed 800,000 Serbs??? You're kidding, right? Come on, stop with the exxagerations and hyperbole already, it's getting old.


45 posted on 08/18/2006 10:19:53 AM PDT by NYC Republican (GOP is the worst political party, except for all the others...)
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To: NYC Republican

No, not just Croates, Germans, Croates, Muslims, albanians.
just in Jasenovac camp, over 300,000 were killed.


46 posted on 08/18/2006 10:21:43 AM PDT by kronos77 (www.savekosovo.org say NO to Al-Qaeda new sanctuary (Go IDF!))
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To: Sam Hill

Nushapur and Herat were the two of the four largest cites in the Persian empire. It's said that Genghis slaughtered 800,000 in Nishapur as well as 1.6 million in Herat. Since both cities were under siege it is quite possible that many fled to the cities for protection.


47 posted on 08/18/2006 10:22:50 AM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: joan
These bodies may very well be Serb victims from WWII or other wars

Joan/Destro- you're a pathetic joke... Like foresenic evidence can't distinguish between bodies from 50 years earlier or 10.

Always a conspiracy theory with you folks, Serbs ALWAYS become the victims, never the aggressors. Nice propoganda machine you have, but outside of a few loons here on FR, most level-headed FReepers aren't buying.

Rather than admit that the Serbs committed disgraceful, disgusting atrocities in Srebrenica, killing 8,000 men and boys, you keep trying to make excuses for them.

You really should have a bit more tact, and this behavior with respect to this is disgraceful.

48 posted on 08/18/2006 10:24:55 AM PDT by NYC Republican (GOP is the worst political party, except for all the others...)
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To: kronos77

OK, glad you clarified that. If I mis-understood, my apologies.


49 posted on 08/18/2006 10:25:33 AM PDT by NYC Republican (GOP is the worst political party, except for all the others...)
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To: Sam Hill

See also
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.CHAP3.HTM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nishapur
"After the husband of Genghis Khan's daughter was killed at Nishapur in 1221; she ordered the death of all in the city (~1.7 million), and the skulls of men, women, and children were piled in pyramids by the Mongols."

http://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/cities/afghanistan/herat.html
"Herat surrendered after a short siege, and the Mongols contented themselves with slaughtering the garrison while sparing the populace. A few months later, however, the city rose in revolt. The Mongols returned in force under the personal command of Ghengis Khan, and this time the entire population was put to the sword; contemporary accounts speak of more than a million and a half corpses. The network of irrigation canals was destroyed, the whole region devastated, and desolation reigned for decades along the Hari Rud."

I don't know where they sourced this from.


50 posted on 08/18/2006 10:29:12 AM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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