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Irish company challenges scientists to test 'free energy' technology [Oh Yeah!]
PhysOrg.com ^ | 18 August 2006 | Staff

Posted on 08/18/2006 7:37:36 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

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To: Tennessee_Bob

just wait until they start sending us the bill!


51 posted on 08/18/2006 8:15:53 AM PDT by chilepepper (The map is not the territory -- Alfred Korzybski)
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To: Eagles Talon IV
Perhaps what they have done is run the primary energy source produced, through an inverse phase re combiner. This would permit the generated energy to be transmogrified and fused with the refracted binary containment field which is a by product of the magnetic mega phase re capacitor and thereby transfused and increased by the actions of the previously mentioned inverse phase re combiner.

I trust that you were able to get a new writing gig after Star Trek: Voyager went off the air.

52 posted on 08/18/2006 8:15:57 AM PDT by steve-b ("Creation Science" is to the religous right what "Global Warming" is to the socialist left.)
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To: Physicist
If I had a free energy machine, I wouldn't be concerned with whether anybody else believed it worked. Hell, I'd be trying to keep it quiet.

We homeschool, and we made a nonelectric fan using magnets. Magnets repel each other. Just give the fan a little push to get it started, and the repulsion keeps the blades moving. It was "Elementary, my dear" - literally. We were doing a science class. The kids came up with the idea.

53 posted on 08/18/2006 8:16:19 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal.")
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To: Mark Felton
From their website:

This represents a significant challenge to our current understanding of the universe and clearly such claims require independent validation from credible third parties. During 2005 Steorn embarked on a process of independent validation and approached a wide selection of academic institutions. The vast majority of these institutions refused to even look at the technology, however several did. Those who were prepared to complete testing have all confirmed our claims; however none will publicly go on record.

Sounds like the peers refused to even look at it. So they went to a more public forum to get someone to compel some peers to review it.

They themselves agree it appears to violate the ‘Principle of the Conservation of Energy’, under the laws of physics as we know them. But are we saying that we know everything there is to know about the universe and the laws that govern it?

What's it going to cost to take a look, considering the potential bennefits if it does?

If it doesn't work; it doesn't work and we move on. If it does....

54 posted on 08/18/2006 8:17:29 AM PDT by AFreeBird (... Burn the land and boil the sea's, but you can't take the skies from me.)
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To: SampleMan
How can space probes etc. use planets to slingshot to a higher speed (perhaps the MSM just reports wrong)?

"slingshot" orbital speedups are gained by having the spacecraft fly by a planet or moon starting at exactly the right place that the planet gives up energy from its forward orbital motion to the spacecraft. What this means is that every time we use Jupiter to speed up a probe, the planet slows down slightly. if we sent a really, really large number of probes by Jupiter this way, we could get it to fall into the Sun.

55 posted on 08/18/2006 8:19:37 AM PDT by BlazingArizona
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To: Doctor Stochastic
HERE IT IS!!!...they sent me a photo for review..(being an engineer and scientist)....

The darn thing just keeps going around and around in a vaccuum with no wires or nothing!!!


56 posted on 08/18/2006 8:19:38 AM PDT by Mark Felton ("Your faith should not be in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.")
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To: steve-b
I'll trade you a set of your blueprints for my deed to the Brooklyn Bridge.

Laugh all you want, fool! I've just tied up the North American franchise. Soon you'll be buying your "free energy" from me! HAHAHAHAHAHA!

57 posted on 08/18/2006 8:20:11 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Everything is blasphemy to somebody.)
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To: SampleMan
How can space probes etc. use planets to slingshot to a higher speed (perhaps the MSM just reports wrong)? I understand using a planet to execute a turn, but increasing speed seems impossible, as gravity should have the same effect outbound as inbound.

The probe's "final" (i.e. when it's far enough away for the planet's gravity to become insignificant) inbound and outbound speeds relative to the planet are equal. However, what's important for slingshot trajectories is speed relative to the sun, which can be increased or decreased depending on how the probe's trajectory and the planet's orbit interact.

Of course, the momentum and energy don't appear out of nowhere -- the planet loses the same amount that the probe gains. The planet is a lot bigger, so the effect on its orbit is miniscule.

58 posted on 08/18/2006 8:21:44 AM PDT by steve-b ("Creation Science" is to the religous right what "Global Warming" is to the socialist left.)
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To: AFreeBird
They themselves agree it appears to violate the ‘Principle of the Conservation of Energy’, under the laws of physics as we know them. But are we saying that we know everything there is to know about the universe and the laws that govern it?

It may not be valid under the laws of Newtonian physics, but Quantum physics is an open book.
I think this type of science is so cool.

59 posted on 08/18/2006 8:22:58 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal.")
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To: SampleMan

Momentum is conserved. Some of the momentum of the large body is transferred to the smaller body, which if it is Jupiter versus Voyager 1 won't matter much to Jupiter.


60 posted on 08/18/2006 8:23:46 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: steve-b

You have a deed to the Brooklyn Bridge too?


61 posted on 08/18/2006 8:24:59 AM PDT by Total Package (TOLEDO, OHIO THE BLUE PIMPLE IN A SEA OF RED!)
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To: Mark Felton

That's good. Can you build me one that's big enough to power an SUV? At least I don't have to feel guilty any more.


62 posted on 08/18/2006 8:27:37 AM PDT by Bazooka (When Tolerance met Indifference, it was love at first sight.)
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To: steve-b
"What we have developed is a way to construct magnetic fields so that when you travel round the magnetic fields, starting and stopping at the same position, you have gained energy," McCarthy said.

I believe that a device that rotates, breaking magnetic flux lines, is called a generator!! where does the power come from that causes it to travel round? Briggs & Stratton?

63 posted on 08/18/2006 8:28:27 AM PDT by Vinnie_Vidi_Vici
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To: PatrickHenry
"What we have developed is a way to construct magnetic fields so that when you travel round the magnetic fields, starting and stopping at the same position, you have gained energy,"

Bravo Sierra! You supply (and expend) kinetic energy via the motion of your "travel" through the magnetic field. Your kinetic energy is simply converted into electrical form. Nothing is "created". (See "Faraday's Law".)

64 posted on 08/18/2006 8:29:07 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: steve-b

Light waves are energy. Sound waves are energy. Heck, everything in our universe is energy vibrating at different speeds. Electrons are buzzing all over the place. There must be some way to tap it without blowing ourselves up. There has to be some way to manipulate it to our advantage. Somebody is bound to figure it out sooner or later.


65 posted on 08/18/2006 8:31:09 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal.")
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To: concerned about politics
Let me get this straight: you built a fan, with no external power source, using permanent magnets, that moves air, and never stops?
66 posted on 08/18/2006 8:31:15 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: tdewey10
Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary proof alert too.

I'm as much a skeptic about this process as you are but I don't agree with this statement. In bayesian terms, you have a strong prior probability of ~ 1 for a proposition such as "it is impossible to produce energy by starting in a state and then returning to an identical state" (which is what I think the article describes). But that proposition is falsifiable by a single contrary example.

It should be a solidly controlled single example. I'd want to see it replicated several times--that reflects the strength of the prior probability. But I think the statement about extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary belief is just a way to stop discussion about subjects the speaker doesnt' want to talk about.

67 posted on 08/18/2006 8:31:16 AM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: steve-b
Of course, the momentum and energy don't appear out of nowhere -- the planet loses the same amount that the probe gains. The planet is a lot bigger, so the effect on its orbit is miniscule.

We have got to get this information to the liberals quick. This could be the new "global warming", i.e. Man's threat to the entire solar system.

If we can get them really wound up about this (and thus otherwise distracted) we might be able to accomplish something here on this planet.

68 posted on 08/18/2006 8:32:33 AM PDT by SampleMan
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To: concerned about politics
No batteries, even?
69 posted on 08/18/2006 8:32:46 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: AFreeBird
What's it going to cost to take a look, considering the potential bennefits if it does?

If not the actual cost to perform the study, then the opportunity cost of not studying something else while you waste time with something implausible.

70 posted on 08/18/2006 8:35:20 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Tom Gallagher - the anti-Crist [FL Governor, 2006 primary])
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To: steve-b

Now THAT was funny! Thanks for the laugh, funniest thing I read all day!


71 posted on 08/18/2006 8:36:26 AM PDT by Dad was my hero
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To: PatrickHenry; All

I think this invention is working, based upon the Cohey-Matsuri Hadron Disrupt/Inversion Tunneling.

The theory, backed by FermiLabs and being investigated at Sandia, contends that plasma state strings of quantum-level mu-particles can, under a disruptive electroweak field, generate inverted spin leptons. The leptons generated match the characteristics of leptons predicted by Chui et al (www.phd-dissert-11057a.usydney.univ.au) at the quasi-stable single-field juncture of a black hole, and are held to have traveled across a p-node tunnel to a suitable exit point, in this case, the device in question.

www.cohey-matsuri.mit.edu

cool, huh?


72 posted on 08/18/2006 8:36:37 AM PDT by jbp1 (be nice now)
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To: Vinnie_Vidi_Vici
I believe that a device that rotates, breaking magnetic flux lines, is called a generator!! where does the power come from that causes it to travel round? Briggs & Stratton?

Repulsion? Magnets can repel each other. They just push each other away. As one magnetic device passes the other, it's repelled forward or backward depending on the original direction it started. Every time the one magnet passes the other it gets a push.

73 posted on 08/18/2006 8:36:39 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal.")
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To: PatrickHenry
One of the basic principles of physics is that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only change form.

And yet paradoxically, it exists, and therefore must have been created at some point. Clearly the basic principles of physics are deficient, and figuring out how to make something from nothing will be a big step in remedying the deficiency.

74 posted on 08/18/2006 8:39:59 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: DoughtyOne
We are pretty smart. Physicists have developed a set of principles that they operate by.

Frauds are tedious in their repetitiveness. To a physicist, this smells like Nigeria.

75 posted on 08/18/2006 8:41:23 AM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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To: Physicist
Let me get this straight: you built a fan, with no external power source, using permanent magnets, that moves air, and never stops?

Yes, there was a power source. We had to push it to get it started. I'm not sure how long it would run, though. It was an ugly paper device sitting on my kitchen table. I threw it away. I needed the table for dinner.
It was a kids science project, not a devise designed to save the world, you know.
It was easy to build. Just make sure you use materials like toilet paper or tissues for the blades. If it's too heavy it won't work.

76 posted on 08/18/2006 8:42:50 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal.")
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To: thackney; SampleMan
How can space probes etc. use planets to slingshot to a higher speed

Planets are not standing still. They can be used to pull the probe along.

Also important to mention, there is energy transfer going on here. Every time one of these probes performs this maneuver, the planet loses a (tiny) fraction of its kinetic energy. It's just that the planet has so much energy that even that tiny amount equates to an increase in the probe's speed.

Taken to extremes, if enough probes were accelerated using this method the planet would slow down and collapse into the Sun.

77 posted on 08/18/2006 8:42:52 AM PDT by mwilli20
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To: thackney

Rotation?


78 posted on 08/18/2006 8:44:20 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: PatrickHenry
"What we have developed is a way to construct magnetic fields so that when you travel round the magnetic fields, starting and stopping at the same position, you have gained energy," McCarthy said.

Sounds like it could provide some energy. But it isn't creating energy. If it is a strong magnetic field, even from a permanent magnet, as you walk around it, you would induce electrical fields in conductors that could be harvested into useful energy. All you are doing is transforming the mechanical motion as you walk through the magnetic fields into electrical energy in whatever device can collect it.

This basic idea is already on the market. An example would be those flashlights you shake to power up. It certainly is an odd way of doing the same thing.

79 posted on 08/18/2006 8:44:36 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: concerned about politics

Only if the magnets are moving.


80 posted on 08/18/2006 8:46:00 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: concerned about politics
Just give the fan a little push to get it started, and the repulsion keeps the blades moving.

That would be very interesting to see.

81 posted on 08/18/2006 8:48:46 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: Fresh Wind
They don't need "credible, academic validation in the public domain", they need a working product.

You hit the nail on the head. I can make an argument that this is a scam without knowing anything about physics.

If they truly had invented a free-energy machine, they would have patented it and then published the theoretical work and a description of the machine's construction. A number of scientists around the world would then undertake to duplicate their findings and validate them.

Any other course of action points to a scam. It's very likely these people are simply trying to create a media buzz which they hope will translate into funding.

82 posted on 08/18/2006 8:48:53 AM PDT by mwilli20
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To: concerned about politics

The atmosphere and the earth make up the two ends of a giant capacitor; how to release its store?


83 posted on 08/18/2006 8:50:39 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: Old Professer
Only if the magnets are moving.

We did tilt them. One magnet would sneak up behind the other and get close enough to get caught on the repulsion. It would push the blades around again.
I'm just a homeschooling mom and not an engineer. All I know is it worked and I gave the kids an A.

84 posted on 08/18/2006 8:51:01 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal.")
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To: jbp1

What if it works and they succeed in tapping it and then down the road, we suck the universe dry; what do we do then, smart guy?


85 posted on 08/18/2006 8:53:27 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: domenad

"This is absolute bullcrap. It's an accepted and proveable Gaussian theory that the line integral around any closed surface is 0. If this guy thinks he can get energy out of that, he's fooling himself. Nice try though."

Fantastic. No fly to Ireland and debunk it. You can pick up some fine Guiness while you are there.

Personally, Guiness is Gaelic for Genius, so for me, I believe my Irish brothers may be on to something.


86 posted on 08/18/2006 8:59:03 AM PDT by RinaseaofDs
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To: Old Professer

Don't worry, they just found a 'black-hole' rich field in the Arcturus-beta Al-Wahibi nebula. They are going to point their p-tunnel magnetons there. Estimated to last 200 yrs at current rate of consumption.

Only need to clear it with their head scientist, Dr. Mullah Allah ben-Katoosk


87 posted on 08/18/2006 8:59:22 AM PDT by jbp1 (be nice now)
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To: Old Professer
The atmosphere and the earth make up the two ends of a giant capacitor; how to release its store?

Yes, but without starving something else. Like taking a pinch of energy from here, a pinch from there, without disrupting matter to the point where it changes it's basic form.
I wish I knew more about this stuff. I find it all fascinating. I love these threads.

88 posted on 08/18/2006 9:11:28 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal.")
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To: mwilli20
Taken to extremes, if enough probes were accelerated using this method the planet would slow down and collapse into the Sun.

Does Al Gore know?

89 posted on 08/18/2006 9:16:00 AM PDT by SampleMan
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To: SampleMan; domenad
I've wondered something for a while that perhaps you can answer. How can space probes etc. use planets to slingshot to a higher speed (perhaps the MSM just reports wrong)? I understand using a planet to execute a turn, but increasing speed seems impossible, as gravity should have the same effect outbound as inbound.

Remember the planet is moving in its assigned orbit as well. You end up adding part of the velocity of the planet to your spacecraft as you do the flyby. However, you cannot get something for nothing. The Planet loses the same energy that was gained by the spacecraft. (Albeit imperceptible)

90 posted on 08/18/2006 9:20:45 AM PDT by RadioAstronomer (Senior member of Darwin Central)
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To: tdewey10
Cold Fusion alert. Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary proof alert too.

If they are ready for peer review then I think they just might have something here.

91 posted on 08/18/2006 9:20:47 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (Islam is a subsingularity memetic perversion : (http://www.orionsarm.com/topics/perversities.html))
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To: Mark Felton

Actually, that device fails in a vacuum. But it works in very low pressure bulbs.


92 posted on 08/18/2006 9:22:10 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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Comment #93 Removed by Moderator

To: Mark Felton

It smells like they are looking for investors more than scientific approval. "If it seems to good to be true it probably is."


94 posted on 08/18/2006 9:28:13 AM PDT by Dr. I. C. Spots
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To: PatrickHenry

What the heck bump.


95 posted on 08/18/2006 9:28:56 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: pissant

"Exxon hit squads will be coming after this guy."


Do you recall an oldie named 'The Formula'????????


96 posted on 08/18/2006 9:31:23 AM PDT by litehaus
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To: Old Professer
Rotation?

I would not think that rotation would be a factor. The probe should not get so close that it is in the atmosphere or it would lose the momentum it had and burn up as well. If the probe is not in the atmosphere, I don't see how rotation would effect it.

97 posted on 08/18/2006 9:31:29 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: RinaseaofDs

Best excuse for a beer I've heard outside of my AA meetings. "It was for science!"


98 posted on 08/18/2006 9:32:52 AM PDT by domenad (In all things, in all ways, at all times, let honor guide me.)
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To: Irish_Thatcherite

Keep your eye on this one. ; )


99 posted on 08/18/2006 9:33:19 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: Doctor Stochastic

yer right..it is the air molecules that give it momentum.


100 posted on 08/18/2006 9:33:32 AM PDT by Mark Felton ("Your faith should not be in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.")
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