It's hard to keep up with all the Rudy / McNutt stories.
Posted on 08/21/2006 6:16:02 AM PDT by areafiftyone
The S.C. Republican Party’s sponsorship of “An Evening Honoring Rudy Giuliani” last week spoke volumes.
It reflected what some said is a shift in attitude toward GOP candidates with more liberal views on social issues.
There’s a greater degree of tolerance and acceptance, party officials said.
Giuliani, who rose to national prominence for his take-charge performance after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, supports gay rights, gun control and legalized abortion, which puts him at odds with most Republicans.
Nevertheless, he has traveled the country extensively on behalf of GOP candidates this year while acknowledging his own interest in a possible 2008 presidential bid.
Although his liberal stance on social issues is likely to disqualify him with religious conservatives, the former New York City mayor remains in great demand as a speaker before Republican groups.
In this visit — his first major political trip to South Carolina — Giuliani attended a fundraiser for conservative GOP congressional candidate Ralph Norman, the one-term state representative who is challenging Democratic U.S. Rep. John Spratt, a 24-year House veteran in a hotly contested race in the 5th District.
Giuliani ended the day in Charleston at a star-studded $2,500-a-couple fundraiser for the state Republican Party.
He packed the place.
“Rudy is a very popular figure,” GOP chairman Katon Dawson said. “We didn’t have any problem with him coming.”
Giuliani, affectionately known as “America’s mayor,” is seen as middle-of-the-road by most voters nationally, according to Rasmussen Reports, an electronic survey company.
It found 36 percent of Americans see him as a political moderate, 29 percent said conservative, and 15 percent said liberal. Twenty percent are not sure.
Former state GOP chairman Barry Wynn said the party needs to take a fresh look at the way it regards new voters, especially those new residents who’ve settled along the coast and are starting to have an impact on state party politics.
Those voters tend to be more progressive in outlook and are more inclined to support someone like Giuliani.
“I think Rudy could be more popular in South Carolina than most people would think,” Wynn said.
The debate in 2008 isn’t going to be about tax cuts, abortion or Social Security reform — Republican favorites.
“The overarching issues this time will be national security and leadership,” Wynn said. “Everything else will fit under that.”
Such a scenario favors Giuliani, Greenville consultant Chip Felkel said.
Francis Marion University political scientist Neal Thigpen, a GOP activist, said Giuliani is in a “special category.”
He’s a “glittering personality” with star quality who can get away with supporting legalized abortion and gay rights.
His position on those social issues “would not hurt him as bad over the long haul as one may think. If John McCain had the same position, it would hurt him a lot worse.”
Needless to say, the hard-core religious right won’t surrender territory on social issues. They’d rather go down in flames than win.
But unless terrorists no longer are a threat to the United States, national security and leadership will be at the top of the issues heap in 2008.
Voters won’t be concerned about gay rights or abortion. What matters most will be their own security in a volatile world.
And the candidate who stands to benefit is Giuliani.
“If your house is on fire,” Wynn said, “you want a guy with the hose.”
(((((PING)))))))
Another dose of "Force the Liberal RINO Down the Conservatives' Throats"...
((( pinng )))
Wrong, I will not vote for him.
If you want to see hatred of dissent, look at Democrats.
That being said, Rudy won't get my support for the nomination. I love him, but he's not a social conservative and so he's not getting my vote.
Regardless of who was polled, conservatives will not vote for the candidates who stand against them on the issues:
Abortion
Partial Birth Abortion
Higher Taxes
Gun Control and/or Confiscation
Religious issues
Homosexual Agenda
School Vouchers
Illegal Invaders and/or Immigrants Amnesty
Pick any issue, and ask these candidates where they stand.
The results will shock everyone.
He, and McCain, won't get my vote for nomination. If nominated, they won't get my vote for president.
If the choice did come down to Guiliani or an unstable McCain, I would probably have to go with McCain.
Flame away; I don't give a dime.
LOL! That has to qualify as the dumbest statement of the day!
Tough choice; support the socially liberal RINO or surrender to the RATS. Have we any real conservative candidate who would have Rudy's impact, a probable winner?
I can't think of one.
No Flames. You are entitled to your opinion of Rudy. I personally will vote for him for the nomination. I don't give a darn about social issues when this country is in danger of being attacked or nuked. I want someone to protect us. Rudy is the only one not afraid to kick out a Palestinian out of NY and shove a check back in the face of a Saudi Prince. But if Rudy loses the nomination I will vote for whomever wins, be it Allen, McCain (GAG!!), or whomever.
I don't consider fudge packing, gun grabbing, or baby killing to be progress.
Wait until after this November's elections. Then the contenders will start appearing.
Oh Really? If we are attacked - what will be on everyone's mind? Abortion or Terrorists? You decide?
Except it won't be 'either-or' in the primaries. For most republicans, it is 'both'!
What is it with Republicans wanting to morph into pro-war Democrats? I don't trust Democrats to prosecute a war properly. I don't trust Democrats at all. And, there's more behind that distrust than simply a label or a name. Abandon religious conservatives and lose the south, no matter what the high muckety-mucks might be smoking these days, in the South Carolina Republican leadership, or the RNC for that matter. Here we go again.
Many people see abortion and terrorism both as acts of murder. In any case, we shouldn't have to choose one or the other, two years before the presidential election.
We get threatened every day. Nothing will force conservatives to give up their ideals and fundamental moral beliefs, not even Rudy -- the Russian mafia sweetheart.
Hillary or Rudy? Now that's a no-brainer.
Thank you for your reasoned post.
It really bothers me how during this time of international
war we have so many people who can only focus of social issues.
I mean good lord - as if Rudy is going to take away their guns, or somehow the President is going to suddenly tell everyone to have abortions.
I saw Rudy in person last week in Greenville SC at a leadership forum - the man exudes leadership 100%.
HE HAS my VOTE and I will PUSH for HIM IN 08'.
GO RUDY
Well I'm more worried about my family, my friends, my neighbors and my co-workers and my Freeper friends dieing in a terrorist attack than I am about some woman deciding to get an abortion. She at least might be talked out of it - not a terrorist deciding on Jihad and his 72 virgins.
It's hard to keep up with all the Rudy / McNutt stories.
Oh you were so lucky to see him. Was he as good a speaker as they say he is?
But ya gotta admit its fun. I never take these things seriously. I am actually looking forward to 2008 and casting my vote for the Republican nominee. After the 2000 election I promised myself I wouldn't ever get worked up about a presidential election. That one made my blood pressure go up on a daily basis! I love presidential elections.
Whatever! It's getting worn out.
I wouldn't worry about it, as neither one will get the nod.
Guiliani could get the VP nod.
Well, there we have it. If advocating for partial birth abortion is moderate / conservative - 65% are stupid. Add the 20% ignorant, and it is a total non-story.
Rudy or McCain will not get my vote in any primary. But I can guarantee you if either of them is the Republican Party's nominee and Hillary is the Democrats, I will be casting a vote for either of them in the crucial state of Florida. I will not be the cause of a President Hillary.
And I hope that no one here is really thinking of sitting the 06 or 08 election out just to "show" the republican party. Because if that is the case, we will be turning our country over to the terrorists and their cohorts the Democratic Party.
Rudy was the last of 8 speakers.
ZIG Ziglar - 81 and still drivin
Steve Forbes - boring
Robert Schuller - nice man
Phil Town - wow - talk about captivating
Steve Spurrier - sorry I don't get him
Then came Rudy - and he buried them all.
INCREDIBLE speaker - very direct - very strong voice - full of self confidence - full of positive thoughts - (unlike Hagel).
Rudy is going to put the other candidates away in any debate - he is simply too powerful.
I would rather have half a loaf than no loaf at all! I am dead set against abortion on demand, gay marriage and all of the other hot button issues which unites us conservatives. However, if Rudy pledges to appoint only strict constructionists to the bench, I will support him willingly.
(((SIGH)))) Sadly it is true.
Thanks. I have to get to see him speak.
I don't know of any social conservatives who will vote for Mr. Giuliani. I certainly won't.
The majority of Republicans are socially conservative, however, not all of these folks should be mistaken for social conservatives. There are many Republicans who are pro-life, pro-family, pro-2nd Amendment, but for whom there are greater, more important issues. These folks are socially conservative, but not social conservatives.
For social conservatives, the issues where Mr. Giuliani is wrong are the most important issues. These folks don't comprise a majority of the Republican Party. However, they compromise a very large minority in the party, and a large minority in the overall electorate. Republican candidates can't be elected without these folks (and, in fact, it's nearly impossible to get nominated without them, as well). Republicans are elected in part because these folks vote so lopsidedly for Republcan candidates.
Mr. Giuliani is unable to win lopsided majorities of these folks. I'm not sure he can win even a simple majority of social conservatives.
Republicans won't win in 2008 if our candidate is little more than an echo of the Democrat candidate, except maybe a little more hawkish on the war.
"What I thought as Mayor of New York city was what was good for New York city, but now I need to think about what's good for the whole country, and it's clear that not all of the policies that work in highly crowded New York are the right thing for the rest of the country and this would be one of them."
Then he'll simply ignore any issue relating to gun rights or the second amendment.
I know about 5000 conservatives who were at his speech in Greeenville SC last week.
I would say 4800 came away ready to vote for him.
Maybe 4900.
I would rather stand for what is right. Giuliani is associated with criminals and he is not the only choice, and McCain is a madman. You decide.
WOW!!!
>>"The American people will not care about social issues if we get attacked or are threatened again."
>>LOL! That has to qualify as the dumbest statement of the day!
It is dumb, but mostly because 'the American people' are not a monolith. Nor are 'Republican primary voters'.
Many people certainly will care about these issues, but others will be willing to put them aside, still others think they are important, but don't share your views on them.
The support which Giuliani will be able to gather in a primary campaign depends on a whole range of factors, none of which are particularly predictable.
1. The extent to which people are voting on the GWOT first and other issues second. Many certainly will, but how many depends on how things progress between now and then.
2. The extent to which social issues might have been diffused. If W has replaced Stevens and Ginsburg on the Court by then, many social issues will be in the hands of governors not presidents.
3. The extent to which Giuliani is prepared to move on the issues. He might, for example, promise to appoint strict constructionist judges and oppose Roe, while saying he would favour his own state (NY) then choosing to adopt liberal abortion laws while others went in a different direction. On guns I am sure he will adopt a federalist position: "What's right for New York City is not always right for Wyoming. Duh! Next question".
4. The breadth and strength of the rest of the field.
I am not suggesting that ALL social conservatives could ever be won over to Giuliani. But under some circumstances many could. Since he already has supporters among those with more liberal or libertarian views, and those who simply prioritise national security and economics well ahead of social issues, he could emerge as a strong contender.
With the GOP's already evident "more liberal views" on government, defense, and economic issues, the parties conservative views on social issues are all I have/had left ?!?!?
Gay rights (i.e. workforce, etc) is what Rudy is for NOT Gay Marriage. But you seem more obsessed with the Gay issue than Rudy is right now.
I like Rudy....but I won't vote for him.
Giuliani will never win over the Southern or Midwestern Conservatives to win a general election. It won't happen.
Certainly a Giuliani administration would fund embryonic stem cells (and those people don't need any more money, it's a scam to begin with) and would not care about social issues, even if Rudy happens to line up with conservatives on them.
And what kind of judges do you think he'd nominate? I'm thinking we'd be lucky to get an Anthony Kennedy.
That being said, I don't think he's a bad guy and I think he's a perfect VP choice. If the POTUS cannot serve, it's likely to be due to terrorism and we'll need a Rudy at that point.
More on Rudy.
Regardless of what happens in 08' he will make our side debate our issues in our way - openly and hopefully with a lot of respect for one another.
Clearly Rudy has some polarizing issues he is going to have to face - but I think he will face them - and he will do it with honesty and conviction.
"you have your opinion - I have mine" type discussion.
08' is going to heaven for political junkies - and in the end we will all be better off from it.
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