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Johnson Lied, 55,000 Died
National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 132 ^ | August 2004 | John Prado

Posted on 08/22/2006 8:34:54 AM PDT by Hillary'sMoralVoid

Forward: During this election season, you will certainly hear the mantra "Bush lied". To counter that, here is a REAL example of how intelligence was distorted, resulting in TENS of THOUSANDS of American lives lost.

"The Gulf of Tonkin Incident, 40 Years Later -- Flawed Intelligence and the Decision for War in Vietnam"

Signals Intercepts, Cited at Time, Prove Only August 2nd Battle, Not August 4; purported Second Attack Prompted Congressional Blank Check for War

Johnson-McNamara Tapes Show READINESS TO ESCALATE, EVEN ON SUSPECT INTEL. TOP AIDES KNEW OF MISTAKEN SIGNALS, but Welcomed Justification for Vote (Emphasis added)

Washington, D.C., 4 August 2004 - Forty years ago today, President Johnson and top U.S. officials chose to believe that North Vietnam had just attacked U.S. destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin, even though the highly classified signals intercepts they cited to each other actually described a naval clash two days earlier (a battle prompted by covert U.S. attacks on North Vietnam), according to the declassified intercepts, Johnson White House tapes, and related documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University.

Compiled by Archive senior fellow and Vietnam expert John Prados, today's 40th anniversary electronic briefing book includes Dr. Prados's detailed analysis of the intercepts - only declassified in 2003 - together with audio files and transcripts of the key Tonkin Gulf conversations between President Johnson and Defense Secretary Robert McNamara. The latter are excerpted from Dr. Prados's book, The White House Tapes (New York: The New Press, 2003). The posting also contains photographs and charts from the Tonkin Gulf incident courtesy of the U.S. Naval Historical Center, a detailed documentary chronology compiled by the State Department's Office of the Historian for the Foreign Relations of the United States series, a CIA Special National Intelligence on Vietnam.

(Excerpt) Read more at gwu.edu ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 1964; anniversary; gulfoftonkin; gulfoftonkinlies; lbj; tonkin; vietnamwar

1 posted on 08/22/2006 8:34:55 AM PDT by Hillary'sMoralVoid
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To: Hillary'sMoralVoid
Aww, c'mon, now. Number One, you're not supposed to criticize dems. Number two, it prolly about the only time a dem ever did anything to confont communism ('cept for the Bay of Pigs where Kennedy called off the air cover at the last minute.)

Owl_Eagle

If what I just wrote made you sad or angry,
it was probably just a joke.

2 posted on 08/22/2006 8:39:10 AM PDT by South Hawthorne (In Memory of my Dear Friend Henry Lee II)
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To: Hillary'sMoralVoid

OTOH, nothing has changed. What is the POTUS supposed to do when he gets these 'intelligence' reports? Wait to be sure?


3 posted on 08/22/2006 8:39:23 AM PDT by Froufrou
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To: Hillary'sMoralVoid


Where is the "Awwwwwwweeee Jeeeeeeezzz" guy? He needs to be posted here.


4 posted on 08/22/2006 8:40:57 AM PDT by in hoc signo vinces ("Houston, TX...a waiting quagmire for jihadis. American gals are worth fighting for!")
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To: Hillary'sMoralVoid
MY friend was the sonar operator on the Maddox and it was a cluster F___, they didn't know if they were getting shot at or if they were shooting at themselves.
5 posted on 08/22/2006 8:42:05 AM PDT by boomop1 (there you go again)
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To: boomop1

It's happened more than once, no? And it sucks.


6 posted on 08/22/2006 8:44:03 AM PDT by Froufrou
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To: Hillary'sMoralVoid

I have a liberal friend that believes Nixon started the war in Vietnam. He gets totally insane and foaming at the mouth if you try and convince him otherwise. I think this is a form of mental illness.


7 posted on 08/22/2006 8:47:20 AM PDT by dljordan
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To: Froufrou

Exactly.......like in 1861 when the President tried to convince the public that the garrison at Ft. Sumter was starving and needed emergency help.


8 posted on 08/22/2006 8:48:29 AM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: Froufrou

I would not give Johnson a drop of water, where he is now, he was as evil as the clintoon's and destroyed this country's inter-structure.


9 posted on 08/22/2006 8:52:42 AM PDT by boomop1 (there you go again)
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To: Hillary'sMoralVoid

LBJ - the worst US president ever.


10 posted on 08/22/2006 8:53:18 AM PDT by Dante3
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To: boomop1

It's been said that he was responsible for JFK's demise - however, I know that conspiracy theories are loathe on FR and therefore I won't comment further.


11 posted on 08/22/2006 8:54:47 AM PDT by Froufrou
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To: Hillary'sMoralVoid

Being so old that I can't forget what happened I will add:

1. The USofA was a member of SEATO (Southeast Asia Treaty Organization).
2. South Vietnam also was a member.
3. North Vietnam invaded South Vietnam.
4. The USofA came to the aid of a fellow member.
5. All members were obligated to aid each and every member.


12 posted on 08/22/2006 8:57:16 AM PDT by Blake#1
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To: Dante3
"LBJ - the worst US president ever"

And placing North Vietnam "off limits" to ground invasion did him in.

As I recall, McNamera gave it only a phrase in his book, like "...out of the question" and left it there.

13 posted on 08/22/2006 8:59:39 AM PDT by LZ_Bayonet
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To: Owl_Eagle

Kennedy sent 14,000 ground troops to Vietnam, in a monumently stupid move, thus starting the VW. (There were advisors all over the world)


14 posted on 08/22/2006 9:01:39 AM PDT by tkathy (Einstein: Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.)
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To: Hillary'sMoralVoid

The only 'damage' from the attack that actually occurred was ONE BULLET that struck the destroyer.

It was simply an excuse for action. We were dissed ....


15 posted on 08/22/2006 9:04:59 AM PDT by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitor)
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To: Dante3

Yes LBJ was the very worst of any president!

His rotten streak was without equal!


16 posted on 08/22/2006 9:13:35 AM PDT by tiger63
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To: Dante3

And following in his footsteps would be Carter


17 posted on 08/22/2006 9:31:14 AM PDT by Kimmers
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To: Kimmers
Johnson, Carter & Clinton.

A trio of DEMOCRAT imbeciles that nearly destroyed the Republic.

Semper Fi
18 posted on 08/22/2006 9:50:18 AM PDT by river rat (You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: Hillary'sMoralVoid

Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara... I remember them... but
I wish I didn't.


19 posted on 08/22/2006 10:40:26 AM PDT by Continental Soldier
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To: in hoc signo vinces
Where is the "Awwwwwwweeee Jeeeeeeezzz" guy? He needs to be posted here.


20 posted on 08/22/2006 10:45:04 AM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
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To: Hillary'sMoralVoid; All
From the Memory Vault:

The Gulf of Tonkin Incident, Early provocation, or early example of "spin..."

21 posted on 08/22/2006 1:36:10 PM PDT by backhoe (-30-)
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