CA: Senate votes to ban smoking in cars carrying young kids (and much much more)

"> Keeping smokers from smoking because the nanny state doesn't like it. Thats all any of these laws are about.... It's not about anyones health anymore.. its a move toward prohibition and control."
"I'm afraid you're absolutely correct.

And what are we going to do about it?"

If everyone stopped patronizing establishments where smoking is banned for a couple months, the bans would be reversed. People need to stand up to this insanity...and not just on message boards...it needs to happen in real life! I've not gone to a bar since the ban started in my area. I miss it, but it's just wrong and I just don't feel comfortable in a place that is so restrictive.

> If everyone stopped patronizing establishments where smoking is banned for a couple months, the bans would be reversed.

I have to differ. The vast majority of bars and restaurants don't want the bans -- they argued and lobbied against the ban from the git-go. A lot of them went out of business when the bans went into effect, and more of them nearly did. All that would happen "if everyone stopped patronizing establishments where smoking is banned" is that the ones that survived would finally succumb.

This is the real evil of the nanny state -- there's no recourse that works. Petitions are ineffectual, lawmakers are in the grips of P.C. B.S. The only actions that make any difference are civil disobedience (e.g. a bar that flouts the law and lets patrons smoke under the guise of being a private club or other exempt establishment).

I used to smoke; I quit over 30 years ago for health reasons. I could do without it but I have no axe to grind in either direction -- I don't care if other people smoke around me, it doesn't bother me unless I'm singing (I'm a musician) in which case the non-smoking is actually a plus for the band. But it's hell on attendance.

I saw friends of mine who owned bars and restaurants lose 10's and 100's of thousands of dollars to the smoking ban. I saw a friend lose his life savings worth of capital investment due to the ban. I hate the ban as much as some people hate smoking.

There must be a way to change the law. But putting economic pressure on the establishments isn't going to help, in this case.

"I have to differ. The vast majority of bars and restaurants don't want the bans -- they argued and lobbied against the ban from the git-go. A lot of them went out of business when the bans went into effect, and more of them nearly did. All that would happen "if everyone stopped patronizing establishments where smoking is banned" is that the ones that survived would finally succumb."

I agree...it is a double edged sword. But, politicians cite over and over again that bans will not hurt business...if everyone stopped patronizing these businesses it would directly impact not only the business owners, but the politicians financially. I think part of it may be that the politicians want the bars to close down also. If people stopped going out it would be sad for all the people that worked all their like to have a business. The bottom like is that these bans put everyone in a bad position; they hurt everyone involved...the business owners and citizens who patronize their establishments.

>> "The only actions that make any difference are civil disobedience (e.g. a bar that flouts the law and lets patrons smoke under the guise of being a private club or other exempt establishment)."

> I agree with this too...there needs to be more civil disobedience.

These days, with regard to smoking, I have to rely on others to do it. I had to quit for health reasons long ago (severe allergic rhinitis and bronchial problems), so the best I can do today is cheer on my smoking friends. At the same time, of course, warning them that they're killing themselves.

The point is, they should have the right and means to kill themselves. Freedom is not just the freedom to do safe things. It includes the freedom to do dangerous, stupid things too.

I'll leave the argument about whether it includes the right to make somebody else pay higher insurance premiums, for another day and another thread...

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