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Cardinal Warns About Colombia Abortion
NY Times ^ | August 30, 2006 | Associated Press

Posted on 08/30/2006 3:19:02 PM PDT by Stone Mountain

Cardinal Warns About Colombia Abortion

BOGOTA, Colombia (AP) -- A leading cardinal said the Vatican will excommunicate the doctors who performed Colombia's first legal abortion on an 11-year old girl who allegedly was raped by her stepfather.

Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, president of the Vatican's Pontifical Council for the Family, made the announcement in an interview with RCN television Tuesday.

''Every Christian Catholic who submits to an abortion, whether it be directly or indirectly, will be excommunicated,'' Lopez said.

It was not immediately clear if he also was referring to the girl and her family.

[... cut to excerpt]

The secretary of Colombia's Episcopal Conference, Monsignor Fabian Marulanda, said he doubted that the Vatican would take the formal steps of excommunicating the doctors, but that the doctors should consider themselves excommunicated until they submit to penance.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortion; cardinal; catholic; colombia; colombian; vatican
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To: The Red Zone

At her age, the parents had the responsibility of making the decision they felt was right for her. Would you want the same right to make decisions you feel to be right, for your child?

I think you would.


51 posted on 08/30/2006 4:36:41 PM PDT by linda_22003
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To: linda_22003

Let me amend "parents" to "mother", since obviously the other "parent" was the source of the problem, here.


52 posted on 08/30/2006 4:38:49 PM PDT by linda_22003
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To: Huntress

"So what's your answer?"

My answer is that I don't feel like playing silly games.

There is no simple yes or no answer to a question that difficult. However, such cases are one in a million.

For the vast majority of cases, the answer is much easier.


53 posted on 08/30/2006 4:38:53 PM PDT by dsc (o)
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To: linda_22003

I wouldn't wish it on a girl for anything less than to prevent the girl's own fatality.


54 posted on 08/30/2006 4:40:25 PM PDT by The Red Zone
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To: dsc

Maybe what we really disagree on is how difficult this girl's case is. I don't think it's nearly as clear cut as you apparently do.


55 posted on 08/30/2006 4:41:42 PM PDT by Huntress (Proud owner of Norman/Norma, the transsexual cat.)
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To: dsc
Doesn't matter if a woman consents to conceive.

The excuse of the crypto rapists.

56 posted on 08/30/2006 4:44:05 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Stone Mountain

Was the stepfather removed from the girl's family life? I am overtired, but I read the article specifically looking for that information and did not find it.


57 posted on 08/30/2006 4:46:33 PM PDT by saveliberty (I'm a Bushbot and a Snowflake :-)
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To: dsc
. . .nobody has any right to kill an innocent baby. Ever. Period.

It appears that you are backing away from this position.

58 posted on 08/30/2006 4:47:52 PM PDT by Huntress (Proud owner of Norman/Norma, the transsexual cat.)
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To: linda_22003

Was the stepfather removed? I couldn't find that in the story. How can she be a little girl again if he's still somewhere in her family life?


59 posted on 08/30/2006 4:48:48 PM PDT by saveliberty (I'm a Bushbot and a Snowflake :-)
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To: saveliberty

I read the same story, so I only know as much as you do. :-\


60 posted on 08/30/2006 4:49:35 PM PDT by linda_22003
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To: linda_22003

:-( If they had no words about a restraining order or separation or estrangement, I fear the worst.


61 posted on 08/30/2006 4:53:05 PM PDT by saveliberty (I'm a Bushbot and a Snowflake :-)
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To: saveliberty

It's Colombia, not the United States. I would hope he'd be in the hands of the legal system, but who knows.


62 posted on 08/30/2006 4:54:17 PM PDT by linda_22003
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To: linda_22003

I understand that the laws are different there. I just note that the story left out the prospect for her safety going forward.


63 posted on 08/30/2006 4:56:09 PM PDT by saveliberty (I'm a Bushbot and a Snowflake :-)
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To: linda_22003

BTW, the story ran in the NYT so you would think that some editor would follow up on the question to find out if he was still around.


64 posted on 08/30/2006 4:57:31 PM PDT by saveliberty (I'm a Bushbot and a Snowflake :-)
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To: PresbyRev
A raped 11 year old girl should not be condemned to be the incubating machine of her rapist.

And such a thing is worse than killing an innocent human? I don't think anything is worse than killing an innocent baby.

65 posted on 08/30/2006 5:11:50 PM PDT by ElkGroveDan (The California Republican Party needs Arnold the way a drowning man needs an anvil.)
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To: B Knotts

thanks a lot...I was a little confused by the priest's words and was wondering what the 'indirect' part meant. Thanks again!


66 posted on 08/30/2006 5:14:25 PM PDT by cyborg (No I don't miss the single life at all.)
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To: Huntress

Here is an interesting testimonial from Sharron Osborn about her abortion.

Excerpt from Sharon: The rock of the Osbournes unXpurgated


By JENNY JOHNSTON
The Daily Mail

Brutally Honest

You can level many charges at Sharon Osbourne, but she is brutally honest, and it is her vulnerability that makes her likeable.

"Everybody has something in the closet, and I reckon the best policy is always to be honest, then it can't come back to haunt you," she says. And she holds her hands up to her own "big mistakes". The biggest brings her to tears. "I had an abortion at 17 and it was the worst thing I ever did. It was the first time I'd had sex, and that was rotten. I'd always thought it was going to be all violins, and it was just awful.

"I was two months gone when I realised. I went to my mum and she said, without pausing for breath: 'You have to get rid of it.'

"She told me where the clinic was, then virtually pushed me off. She was so angry. She said I'd got myself in this mess, now she had to get me out.

"But she didn't come. I went alone. I was terrified. It was full of other young girls, and we were all terrified and looking at each other and nobody was saying a bloody word. I howled my way through it, and it was horrible.

"I would never recommend it to anyone because it comes back to haunt you. When I tried to have children, I lost three - I think it was because something had happened to my cervix during the abortion. After three miscarriages, they had to put a stitch in it.

"In life, whatever it is, you pay somewhere down the line. You have to be accountable."


67 posted on 08/30/2006 5:51:54 PM PDT by davidwendell
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To: Huntress
Remember that the man who raped her was her step-father, which brings her mother's judgement about the well-being of her daughter seriously into question. If she had put her daughter's safety first and protected her, she wouldn't be facing this problem at all.
68 posted on 08/30/2006 6:30:26 PM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: ahayes
And it might not kill her. Do you actually have maternal mortality figures for an 11 year-old? If the pregnancy actually endangers her life, that changes the issue and even most pro-lifers would allow her to decide to terminate a pregnancy if her life were in real (rather than statistical) danger.
69 posted on 08/30/2006 6:34:14 PM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: Stone Mountain

Will we now be faced with A delicatessen vatican APPROACH TO EXCOMMUNICATION by only applying this order to Bogota, Columbia , or will this order include all of the Catholic World.

It will be interesting to see how the vatican gets out of this mess.


70 posted on 08/30/2006 6:34:23 PM PDT by chatham
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To: raybbr
But, the emotional damage will last a lifetime.

The post-abortion emotional trauma lasts a lifetime as well.

This is as close to a genuine lose-lose situation as anyone can find within the entire abortion debate. Eleven is way to young to become a parent. Eleven is also way to young to do murder. She's had an abortion. On top of being raped, she's going to be dealing with the aftermath of having killed her own child--my guess is that she'll be facing that sooner than later. Suppose she had been allowed to bear her child? Maybe she'd have been able to see herself not only as someone who survived an incredibly traumatic act of violence, but something even more than that: She would be able to see herself as a giver of life.

No easy choices here.

71 posted on 08/30/2006 6:37:19 PM PDT by grellis (I don't know, let me ask my I Ching)
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To: Question_Assumptions

I think you're assuming too much. The article doesn't give any information regarding the state of the mother's relationship with the stepfather (were they together or estranged?), the stepfather's mental state at the time of the rape (Jekyll to Hyde transformation or was he always a creep?), or if there was anything the mother could have done to protect her daughter from the attack (did she have any warning that it might happen?).


72 posted on 08/30/2006 6:38:04 PM PDT by Huntress (Proud owner of Norman/Norma, the transsexual cat.)
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To: Stone Mountain

Tough situation. But the Cardinal is upholding the Doctrine of the Church that has pretty much come to us from the Apostles. As to excommunication many of these "excommunications" can be lifted by simply going to Confession.

I suppose also the Cardinal is voicing the view that a further "evil" such as murdering a unborn child cannot be tolerated.


73 posted on 08/30/2006 6:43:20 PM PDT by catholicfreeper
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To: Huntress
To be fair, we are both assuming and filling in the blanks in a way that best supports the outcome we want, which is a big part of my point. What inevitably gets lost in these hard case examples, because everyone has already decided what the correct outcome will be, is what's really best for that little girl because everyone has already decided for her and she has no real choice in the matter. And if that choice others make for her is wrong, either way, it will hurt her in the future.
74 posted on 08/30/2006 10:12:51 PM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: ElkGroveDan

Whine..........


75 posted on 08/31/2006 5:10:31 AM PDT by verity (The MSM is comprised of useless eaters)
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To: dsc

Do noi forget to launder your halo.


76 posted on 08/31/2006 5:15:43 AM PDT by verity (The MSM is comprised of useless eaters)
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To: saveliberty

I googled the story and found coverage from Australia to Turkey, and none of the articles mentioned it.


77 posted on 08/31/2006 5:26:02 AM PDT by linda_22003
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To: Huntress

"It appears that you are backing away from this position."

No, just backing away from puerile word games.


78 posted on 08/31/2006 9:29:25 AM PDT by dsc (o)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

"The excuse of the crypto rapists."

FR has really declined in recent years.

You should be past intellectual garbage like that before you start posting here.


79 posted on 08/31/2006 9:32:02 AM PDT by dsc (o)
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To: dsc

What word games? I asked you to what your position would be in a hypothetical case, and you have so far refused to answer.


80 posted on 08/31/2006 9:37:31 AM PDT by Huntress (Proud owner of Norman/Norma, the transsexual cat.)
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To: Huntress

"What word games? I asked you to what your position would be in a hypothetical case, and you have so far refused to answer."

You remind me of old George Carlin albums. "Hey, fodda. If God is all-powerful, can He make a rock so big that He Himself can't lift it? Hey, we got him now, a-hyuk, a-hyuk."

A certain level of intellectual maturity is required to see that such "hypotheticals" are a waste of time. And that's the last bit of time I have to waste on that foolishness.


81 posted on 08/31/2006 9:42:39 AM PDT by dsc (o)
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To: dsc

The question I asked you was a serious one, and one that occasionally, albeit rarely, comes up in real life. It's one of those difficult cases that make people who truly are intellectually mature reflect on what they believe. If you are unable to answer it, just say so. Calling me puerile, immature, and foolish is just deflecting the issue.


82 posted on 08/31/2006 10:07:29 AM PDT by Huntress (Proud owner of Norman/Norma, the transsexual cat.)
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To: All

I've just read this entire post. I am, to a point, against abortion. I believe that if a woman gets pregnant by consenting to sex, she should have to carry the baby and if she doesn't want it, there are plenty of want-to-be parents who would. If a woman is raped, it should be her choice. In this case, we are talking about a little girl. I have an 11-year-old daughter and I would make the same decision these parents made. She is a child, has to go to school, has to grow up. She cannot be a parent. Her body is not mature enough to carry a child. She would be ridiculed in school and what do you think would happen to her then? If you think her parents made the wrong decision, do you have a little girl? Have you ever been through a pregnancy? Would you really put a child through what a woman is meant to handle. I don't think God would've wanted this either. You talk about the medical problems an abortion vs delivery causes for women. Not a child.


83 posted on 09/01/2006 2:40:33 PM PDT by MeliJara
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To: verity; BykrBayb; metmom; trisham
Sanctimonious every-life-is-precious BS.

You have no idea how long I have waited to see you get zotted!

84 posted on 01/31/2012 1:21:04 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: EnglishCon
I meant to ping you to this, I've been waiting years to see verity zotted.
85 posted on 01/31/2012 1:24:31 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee; verity; metmom; trisham

You have no idea how many people have been waiting for this day. That troll should have been gone long ago. He/she/it cracked jokes and gloated over many murders. It was one of the original WPPFF that broadcast their drinking games during the murder of Terri Schiavo.


86 posted on 01/31/2012 1:40:24 PM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: BykrBayb
Good Riddance to bad rubbish!

Etiam non princeps sed usque ad genua, Principis Pacis!
87 posted on 01/31/2012 3:07:30 PM PST by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines RVN 1969 - St. Michael the Archangel defend us in Battle!)
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To: BykrBayb
About time “it” got zotted, but you know people like that need prayer, because they don't have the love of the Lord in their heart. Sadly he or she wasn't taught any better.
88 posted on 01/31/2012 3:11:24 PM PST by lula (Newt 2012! We need him now more than ever because the establishment is scared.)
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To: verity; wagglebee; BykrBayb
Sanctimonious every-life-is-precious BS.

IATZ


89 posted on 01/31/2012 5:24:54 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom; BykrBayb; verity
The troll actually said this several years ago, I just kept the link as an example of what a piece of crap verity was.
90 posted on 01/31/2012 5:27:30 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Stone Mountain
''Every Christian Catholic who submits to an abortion, whether it be directly or indirectly, will be excommunicated,'' Lopez said.

I can't imagine the girl would be ex-communicated. I highly doubt she consented to it but rather was forced.

91 posted on 01/31/2012 5:27:30 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: raybbr; ElkGroveDan
Could you expalin to me why such a horrible experience should be made worse by KILLING another child?

Safety of the mother.

At the very least, that is working on the very faulty assumption that abortions are safe.

In addition, there is the horrific conditions that exist in hospitals in Colombia.

Years ago I visited some friends in Bogota and was told that you avoid hospitals at all costs. They knew someone who died from complications due to a tonsillectomy of all things. He was still in the hospital and there was no doctor present to attend to him. He bled to death.

92 posted on 01/31/2012 5:32:18 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom; BykrBayb
Sanctimonious every-life-is-precious BS.
IATZ

This one I'll partake in. :) Glad to zee itz been zotted.

93 posted on 01/31/2012 5:36:32 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Huntress; dsc
So by your logic, if continuing a pregancy would likely be fatal to a woman, she should be forced to do so anyway?

Good grief.

If a pregnancy is found to be life threatening, it is either a tubal pregnancy, which is a in a class by itself, or is usually late enough in the pregnancy that the baby can be delivered early and put in NICU.

It doesn't have to be killed by abortion.

94 posted on 01/31/2012 5:38:04 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: raybbr
The memory of the abortion will fade but the child would have been a constant reminder of the horror imposed on her.

Only a man could think that.

Un-stinking-real.

95 posted on 01/31/2012 5:41:17 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: BykrBayb

96 posted on 01/31/2012 6:04:03 PM PST by Kitty Mittens (To God Be All Excellent Praise!)
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To: TalBlack

“Safety of the mother.”

What did that baby do that you are entitled to kill it? What is its crime?


97 posted on 01/31/2012 7:18:06 PM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the ping!

Had a minor run in with him/her on the prayers thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2840348/posts?page=111#111


98 posted on 02/01/2012 3:30:03 AM PST by EnglishCon
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To: BykrBayb

That was so perverted and repulsive that he/she had to be mentally ill and/or a sociopath. Good riddance.


99 posted on 02/13/2012 5:15:50 PM PST by Dante3
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