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Plan gains to publicly identify accused - Register Unconvicted Sex Offenders?
Toledo Blade ^ | Tuesday, August 29, 2006

Posted on 09/01/2006 11:13:40 AM PDT by Theophilus

No one in attendance voiced opposition to rules submitted by Attorney General Jim Petro's office to the Joint Committee on Agency Rule Review, consisting of members of the Ohio House and Senate.

The committee's decision not to interfere with the rules puts Ohio in a position to become the first state to test a "civil registry."

(Excerpt) Read more at toledoblade.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: constitution; offender; registry; sex; sexoffenders
Fark Heading: In Ohio, you can now become a registered sex-offender without even being accused of any crime. Bonus: *anyone* can initiate the process. But at least the children are safe
1 posted on 09/01/2006 11:13:44 AM PDT by Theophilus
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To: Theophilus

This will never pass constitutional muster, no sweat.

I'm all for protecting children from pedophiles, but I prefer to execute them instead. Then you don't have to worry about registering the scum at all...

But they have to be convicted first, this is America not Cuba.


2 posted on 09/01/2006 11:18:59 AM PDT by wvobiwan (BOYCOTT NYT, LAT, AP, Reuters, CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, BBC, WaPo, Haaretz, and ALL leftist rags!!!)
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To: Theophilus

In anything approaching a same world, that rule would be quickly dumped as blatantly Unconstitutional. However, I am afraid that this will be one more major erosion of rights "for the children."


3 posted on 09/01/2006 11:19:16 AM PDT by RebelBanker (If you can't do something smart, do something right.)
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To: Theophilus

Since anyone can initiate registration, it seems like you could spoof the system simply by registering every citizen in the state. Wonder if the geniuses that don't mind "sentence first, verdict afterwards" Alice-in-Wonderland style justice thought of that wrinkle.


4 posted on 09/01/2006 11:19:20 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: wvobiwan

"...but I prefer to execute them instead."

The pedophiles, not the children...:>D


5 posted on 09/01/2006 11:20:05 AM PDT by wvobiwan (BOYCOTT NYT, LAT, AP, Reuters, CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, BBC, WaPo, Haaretz, and ALL leftist rags!!!)
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To: Theophilus
I have a problem with that. An accusation is not enough to force someone to register as a sex offender. People are wrongly accused, that is why we have a legal system. Innocent until proven guilty????? Anyone can initiate it?? No, no one will abuse that will they? Pissed off at someone? Accuse them of being a pedophile, that should do the trick. What country is this?
6 posted on 09/01/2006 11:23:29 AM PDT by MPJackal ("If you are not with us, you are against us.")
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To: MPJackal

There's a simple defense to personally motivated accusations: register everyone you know. Pretty soon everyone in the state is on the list and it becomes meaningless.


7 posted on 09/01/2006 11:26:46 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: MPJackal
Innocent until proven guilty?????

Innocent until proven guilty hasn't existed in a long time, especially when it's he-said she-said.
8 posted on 09/01/2006 11:29:23 AM PDT by JamesP81 ("Never let your schooling interfere with your education" --Mark Twain)
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To: Theophilus

Sounds like a back door in stopping someone from getting a CCW ... figures RINO Petro's office would put out something like this.


9 posted on 09/01/2006 11:30:22 AM PDT by mr_hammer (They have eyes, but do not see . . .)
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To: MPJackal
People are wrongly accused

Not only that but some state's sex offenders aren't really what I would call sex offenders. In some states an 18 year old male can be convicted of a sex offense for having sex with his 16 year old girlfriend. Not that I condone the behavior but I hardly find that to be a case of a rabid sex offender unless forceable sex was involved.

10 posted on 09/01/2006 11:30:53 AM PDT by TXBubba ( Democrats: If they don't abort you then they will tax you to death.)
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To: Theophilus

This is absolute insanity.


11 posted on 09/01/2006 11:32:27 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: RebelBanker

Yah, and I want an "Abuse Of Power" registry on the same terms, and I know a good list of initial nominees.


12 posted on 09/01/2006 11:33:55 AM PDT by Theophilus (Abortion = Child Sacrifice = Future Sacrifice)
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To: MPJackal
"The rules spell out how the untried process would work..."

Ironic use of words.

13 posted on 09/01/2006 11:37:56 AM PDT by Theophilus (Abortion = Child Sacrifice = Future Sacrifice)
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To: Theophilus

The will really help in divorce cases.

You either agree to "settle" or we will file for a protectvie order based on "information and belief".

Of course with wayback.com the acusation scars for life so you are 100% screwed.


14 posted on 09/01/2006 11:43:01 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory
There's this guy in Chappiqua NY.
15 posted on 09/01/2006 11:44:21 AM PDT by massgopguy (massgopguy)
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To: TXBubba

When I was in KC and I heard a radio show interviewing some guy. He was talking about how he was arrested and convicted if rape long ago. Turns out the victim was his 16 y/o girl friend. He was 18. The girls father reported him. Oh, I almost forgot...............they have been married for 50+ years now. Under this law he would have to register as a sex offender.

Can anyone say Scarlet Letter? Star of David?


16 posted on 09/01/2006 11:44:53 AM PDT by MPJackal ("If you are not with us, you are against us.")
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To: wvobiwan
I'm all for protecting children from pedophiles, but I prefer to execute them instead.

You want to execute children??
17 posted on 09/01/2006 11:46:29 AM PDT by BaBaStooey (I heart Emma Caulfield.)
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To: wvobiwan

Oh, ok.

Nice to see you managed to spot your own grammatical gaffe.


18 posted on 09/01/2006 11:47:12 AM PDT by BaBaStooey (I heart Emma Caulfield.)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: Still Thinking

ever talk to a prosecutor?

They believe everyone is guilty. (guilty of something)

Prosecutors are generally: 1. looking to make a political name (citizens are expendable) 2. looking to make a legal name (citizens are still expendable) or 3. looking for a government job security (citizens are 100% expendable)


Constitutions and laws are what the judges say they are. They are not paid to care. (their words)


20 posted on 09/01/2006 11:49:55 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: stumpy

With the rate the female teachers in this country are raping boys I wouldn't give women the idea they would be out of the woods on this either.


21 posted on 09/01/2006 11:50:40 AM PDT by TXBubba ( Democrats: If they don't abort you then they will tax you to death.)
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To: Theophilus

Witches! We must register the witches next! I've got one living right next door... I just KNOW she's a witch...


22 posted on 09/01/2006 11:52:04 AM PDT by M. Dodge Thomas (More of the same, only with more zeros at the end.)
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To: stumpy
The good people of Ohio have nothing to fear, look at the remedy: "A civilly declared offender, however, could petition the court to have the person's name removed from the new list after six years if there have been no new problems and the judge believes the person is unlikely to abuse again."
23 posted on 09/01/2006 11:53:41 AM PDT by Theophilus (Abortion = Child Sacrifice = Future Sacrifice)
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To: M. Dodge Thomas
i38.photobucket.com
Wiiiitch!
24 posted on 09/01/2006 11:54:33 AM PDT by Theophilus (Abortion = Child Sacrifice = Future Sacrifice)
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To: TXBubba

You have a point, but the women in this country frequently make these kinds of accusations during divorce. It is almost a given the female spouse will hint/imply/accuse such activities. Mine did not, but she was trying to destroy my kids as well as me as she didn't want to be bothered with them in her "new" life with an older wealthier boyfriend.


25 posted on 09/01/2006 11:55:00 AM PDT by stumpy
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To: Theophilus

This is a feminazi wet dream.

Just point the finger and "shazzaamm" instant criminal!!

Don't pass Go, don't collect $200, and btw, on your way to the registry, hand in your guns!!

But, it "For The Children"!


26 posted on 09/01/2006 11:57:35 AM PDT by Al Gator (Refusing to "stoop to your enemy's level", gets you cut off at the knees.)
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To: Theophilus

IIRC, our Founding Fathers started a war over less.


27 posted on 09/01/2006 11:58:58 AM PDT by JamesP81 ("Never let your schooling interfere with your education" --Mark Twain)
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To: Theophilus
Cool.

Your Honor, I accuse Jim Petro.

28 posted on 09/01/2006 12:01:51 PM PDT by Sandy
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To: Theophilus

I'm surprised the 'guilty until proven innocent' crowd hasn't descended on this and labeled it a good idea.


29 posted on 09/01/2006 12:05:18 PM PDT by JamesP81 ("Never let your schooling interfere with your education" --Mark Twain)
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To: MPJackal
"What country is this?"

I wonder about that more every day. If you could see the calendar that was sent out this year by our rural county sheriff's office, you'd be shocked. It's a picture of their SWAT team, all dressed in black with weapons and SKI MASKS HIDING THEIR FACES. I sent him a letter telling him they look like a bunch of Palestinian terrorists.

Carolyn

30 posted on 09/01/2006 12:09:24 PM PDT by CDHart ("It's too late to work within the system and too early to shoot the b@#$%^&s."--Claire Wolfe)
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To: mr_hammer
Sounds like a back door in stopping someone from getting a CCW

Sounds like you just nailed the real reason for having this in the first place.

31 posted on 09/01/2006 12:14:30 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Property tax is feudalism. Income taxes are armed robbery of the minority by the majority.)
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To: Still Thinking
Since anyone can initiate registration, it seems like you could spoof the system simply by registering every citizen in the state.

A natural idea, but read again: anyone may ask a judge to register someone. This places the power squarely in the hands of the the most convincing victims and unscupulous judges.
32 posted on 09/01/2006 12:14:58 PM PDT by xenophiles
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To: Theophilus
A civilly declared offender, however, could petition the court to have the person's name removed from the new list after six years if there have been no new problems and the judge believes the person is unlikely to abuse again."

I know I can find a cure for this problem. Simply register every LEO and judge in the state into this thing.

33 posted on 09/01/2006 12:16:51 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Property tax is feudalism. Income taxes are armed robbery of the minority by the majority.)
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To: Sandy
Your Honor, I accuse...

Hey, I mean, if it might could possbily save one child???

I have 8 children, I should be for it 8x

BTW I think we should execute the first time, dead-to-rights molesters and rapists and cut this registry crap. I don't want to have to worry about somebody I can't doing anything about.

34 posted on 09/01/2006 12:23:24 PM PDT by Theophilus (Abortion = Child Sacrifice = Future Sacrifice)
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To: Theophilus
Un-freagin'-belivable! I always expected the sex offender registries to be eventually abused, back when they were first being proposed. But never thought it would result in something like this this so freagin' fast. A mere 'preponderance of evidence' is such a weak test. It's gonna be neighbor trying to screw neighbor, employee vs. employee.

America, as we knew it, is dead. I don't know if we're ever gonna get it back...The experiment is over.

35 posted on 09/01/2006 12:29:03 PM PDT by right-wingin_It
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To: right-wingin_It
America, as we knew it, is dead. I don't know if we're ever gonna get it back...The experiment is over.

I hope you're wrong, but my fears tell me you may not be.
36 posted on 09/01/2006 12:51:15 PM PDT by JamesP81 ("Never let your schooling interfere with your education" --Mark Twain)
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To: CDHart
I sent him a letter telling him they look like a bunch of Palestinian terrorists.

Did you get your "friendly" visit from the FBI yet?

37 posted on 09/01/2006 12:53:59 PM PDT by M. Dodge Thomas (More of the same, only with more zeros at the end.)
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To: RebelBanker
In anything approaching a same world, that rule would be quickly dumped as blatantly Unconstitutional. However, I am afraid that this will be one more major erosion of rights "for the children."

I agree. Many states adopted the law allowing the child victims of pedophiles to testify via video. I know this is hard for a child but at the same time what part of "right to face one's accuser" did the courts not understand?

Just wait till the day when law abiding citizens are mustered into court and confronted by a Clutch Cargo-like video voiceover of Officer Smith saying "yes your honor fill in the blank committed that crime".

Look at what was done with RICO against people who just wanted to protest the murder of children.
38 posted on 09/01/2006 2:23:55 PM PDT by samm1148
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To: Theophilus

The implications of this are staggering, especially if it is declared a "success" and is emulated in other states. In many states and cities, registered sex offenders aren't allowed to enter public parks, live within a certain distance of parks and schools, or hold jobs like teaching.

Think about that. If you live near a school and don't like your neighbor, just accuse hom of a sex crime, get his name on the sex offender list, and force him to move under threat of imprisonment. Proof? Trials? Pshaw! It's for the CHILDREN!

How about the high school kid who decides he doesn't like a teacher? Make an unfounded accusation with no evidence, and even if there is nothing to substantiate it the kid can STILL put the teacher on a sex offender list and not only get him fired from his job, but get him banned from teaching permanently. For those of you who don't like teachers, many of these laws ALSO apply to police, firefighters, day care workers, and a whole array of other civil jobs.

Scary.


39 posted on 09/01/2006 2:41:06 PM PDT by Arthalion
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To: xenophiles

Oh, excellent. Figures.


40 posted on 09/01/2006 4:18:31 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: longtermmemmory
ever talk to a prosecutor? They believe everyone is guilty. (guilty of something)

And the way the laws are written today, they're probably right correct. That, however doesn't show that the public is lawless, but that many of the laws don't have the overwhelming support of the public. Take a look at the history of why there are 12 members on a jury.

41 posted on 09/02/2006 12:20:28 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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Those that said this will never pass the Constitutional test are correct.

I also agree w/ execution of real child pervs. I used the word real b/c like the scenario of an 18 yr old & 16 yr old VOLUNTARY sexual relationship I do NOT find to be in a perv category & I don't think should even be prosecuted let alone have the 18 on some registry list. Don't forget that would be the same as a Sophomore & a Junior in HS having sex which is not considered a perv activity. And usually, when it is an 18 & 16 it IS b/c they started dating in HS.

I would like the execution sentence of rapists in @ LEAST the cases where there is DNA evidence of rape of children OR of adults. Not that I think you have to have DNA to convict but @ least that version of a proposed law has a better chance of passage & meeting Constitutional muster.

Unfortunately, this proposed thing in OH may sound good but it will W/O a doubt be mis-used by folks wanting to ruin some innocent person for reasons other than protecting children.
----
On the "stupid to put on the list" scenario. I remember reading somewhere that a mother got convicted b/c she didn't PREVENT her daughter from getting pregnant. Now mind you, this was not a case of a mom LETTING her daughter get raped by say the mom's boyfriend or anything like that - it's just that her daughter voluntarily had sex, got pregnant & later MARRIED THE FATHER. 1st off I think it's ridiculous that she was even tried & convicted but even WORSE she is on the state's sex offender registry list for Pete's sake.
----
I have no problem w/ children testifying via closed-circuit video as long as the lawyer for the defendant is in the same rm as the child when asking questions & hence the lawyer for the accused will be face-to-face & the accused will see the child. The "right to face one's accuser" was/is meant to prevent "anonymous" accusers/court witnesses & if the accused, their lawyer(s) & court officials know the name of the child & it is in the record then IMHO Constitutional muster has been passed.
----
BTW folks, don't forget that the "innocent until proven guilty" isn't really for prosecutors - just the judges & juries. B/C IMHO, if a prosecutor DOESN'T believe the defendant is guilty then they have NO BUSINESS prosecuting them @ all. Also, the general public does NOT have to give the benefit of the doubt to defendants/accused UNLESS they are on the jury - it's called the 1st Amendment Freedom of Speech - @ least as long as the person says something like "IMHO", "AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED", "I BELIEVE" or some such it is perfectly OK for folks to say that they "think" someone is guilty regardless of the results of a trial (possible examps OJ/Yates) or EVEN IF a trial even happens @ ALL (possible examp Ramsey's).
----
This also reminds me that if a convicted child perv (or any convicted criminal) dies before all appeals are exhausted their conviction can be erased if requested by lawyers/family. Examp, remember that priest convicted of child molestation that got killed (note I didn't say murdered) in prison, well, technically his "record" DID have his conviction erased b/c he died. The same thing has been requested in re Ken Lay but I haven't heard if that has been granted yet . I believe this is the case regardless of if an appeal is even ACTUALLY in the works/on-going process/been granted but not finished. I don't believe in this. The closest I come to possibly saying "ok" is ONLY IF an appeal has been granted by a court but after the granting of permission to appeal the appeal is left unfinished b/c of the death. But @ the very least, if the latest appeal request has been denied or not even submitted in court yet, IMHO, the conviction should stand.


42 posted on 09/02/2006 12:37:37 PM PDT by CommonSense1stOverParty
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To: Still Thinking

I have tried to talk to a prosecutor, but what happens when the prosecutor's political agenda protects the sex offender and leaves the sexually abused child to rot? The fool only received 2 years in prison for his crime and the poor dear doesn't have to be on the sex offender list at ALL.

That being said, what about the sexual offenders who commit crimes against our kids, go to prison but are NOT put onto the sex offender registry? Legally!

Wyoming has this sort of backwards law and our politicians mis-use and mis-handle it frequently. Our VOTED IN politicians and it will only be through the public, the parents that it stops. We stop voting in District Attorneys and Judges who accept this sort of garbage and demand...DEMAND that these people account for their crimes..perhaps our kids will be safer.

When a 9 year old girl is molested in Wyoming by a FORTY year old man and that man goes to Prison for 2 years at Rawlins penitentiary, then is released this January onto an unsuspecting public..something is WRONG in our system. He is NOT on the sex offender registry..Why? I asked that of the Casper, Wyoming District Attorneys office and I was told that the District Attorney "has the choice on whom to put on the list and he didn't put this man on there because it was *ONLY* 4th degree sexual assault".

"Only 4th degree sexual assault". On a 9 year old CHILD...by a 40 year old man. Yet the DA in all his wisdom didn't find this frightening or important enough to feel this man was a THREAT to any other children in Natrona County.

This man has traumatized the child by showing up at her school...to "pick up" his girlfriends kid. He is free to troll the Casper schools, hang out wherever he likes, because in spite of being a CONVICTED sex offender...the Politician running the Prosecutorial Arena in Casper decided he was A-OK in his book.

Time to vote someone else into that office me-thinks. Then update the sex offender list. I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall while someone goes through his files to see just HOW many sex offenders slid through the cracks and are walking around free in Wyoming. This is also happening in Cheyenne, and God knows where else. Wyoming law leaves it up to the politicians to decide who is a danger.

Our childrens safety is left up to people with political agenda's, do YOU feel comfortable with this? Do you feel comfortable knowing that the DA is letting sex offenders walk around without being on the sex offender list?

You might ask how I know this. I know this because the 9 year girl is my daughter and the 40 year old scum is walking around Casper, Wyoming today freely having served only 2 years in prison for his crime against a child and the Casper DA still refuses to put this waste on the sex offender list even though he was convicted of a sex crime against a little girl.

He could be YOUR neighbor.

He could be having YOUR kids over for sleep-overs with his girlfriends kid as the shield.

He could be hanging with YOUR child as a "neighborly" friend.

He could be offering to "babysit" YOUR kids.

Sleep well tonight and check your daughters window's.

Don't forget to thank the Casper Wyoming District Attorney for all his hard work in keeping the child molester's off the streets and listed on the Sex Offender Registry accurate and current.


We need to get this law changed ..FAST before other children get hurt. It's not very comforting to know that you could have a child molester next door and not know it because the DA didn't think it was important enough to put him on the list.


43 posted on 10/02/2006 10:19:24 AM PDT by Vocal Minority (Stop protecting the Criminals and Stand up for Something.)
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To: Vocal Minority
I don't think anyone is arguing against a registry for convicted offenders. The arguments against it I've heard are that the senior in high school who fools around with his sophomore girlfriend shouldn't be on any registry, and a registry should not exist for the accused but not yet convicted.
44 posted on 10/02/2006 10:24:27 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: Theophilus

What if some little ditz decides she doesn't like you because you looked at her while entering a room? or she's jealous of your wife? What if your own kid has a problem with not being allowed to have the car? Out comes the "sex offender" label. It's not fair to either party--the accused OR the accuser.


45 posted on 12/02/2006 8:10:30 AM PST by madison10 (If my people, who are called by My name will humble themselves and pray...I will heal their land.)
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To: madison10
Ohio law dodges statute of limitations for sex crimes Posted 10/5/2006 9:28 PM

By Sharon Coolidge, USA TODAY CINCINNATI — People who have never been convicted of a sex offense still could end up on a public registry in Ohio. A law that went into effect in August targets alleged sex offenders who can no longer face charges or be sued because the time allowed for either action — the statute of limitations — has expired.

The new law allows prosecutors, the state's attorney general or alleged victims to seek to put a person on the registry.

Whoever makes the request must try to present enough evidence to convince a judge that the crime was more likely than not to have occurred. If a judge, after hearing testimony and reviewing evidence from both sides, determines that the abuse is likely to have taken place, then the alleged offender must register with the Ohio Attorney General's Internet Civil Registry.

No other state has a civil registry or is even considering one, said Blake Harrison, a policy analyst with the National Conference of State Legislatures.

The law creating the registry was a substitute for a proposed law that would have allowed people to file lawsuits in old cases that otherwise would have been barred by the two-year statute of limitations.

Hamilton County, Ohio, prosecutor Joe Deters is the first to test the new law.

In September, he filed a motion in Hamilton County Common Pleas Court asking that David Kelley, a priest who served at St. Therese the Little Flower in Mount Airy Ohio, be ordered to register with the state's civil registry.

Kelley, who lives in Nashville, is accused of sexually abusing a student at the Ohio church's elementary school in the early 1980s, according to court documents.

"People deserve to know if they live near sexual offenders," Deters said. "The statute of limitations may have expired, but this allows for notification."

A hearing is set for Dec. 6. Kelley, who is on administrative leave from the Archdiocese of Cincinnati, could not be reached for comment.

"This raises a lot of questions for me," said Jonathan Entin, a law professor at Case Western Reserve University who specializes in constitutional law and civil rights issues. "At least in criminal registries, there is some sort of formal determination a person committed a sex offense."

Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP), a group that lobbies for abuse victims' rights, supported the bill that would have extended the statute of limitations because hundreds of people who have claimed priests abused them as children are unable to file lawsuits or pursue criminal charges.

"I don't think it will work, and it won't deter the abuse," Christy Miller, SNAP's Cincinnati co-leader, said of the new law. "These people won't be financially responsible, and they're not criminally responsible. All that will happen is their name will go on a list that nobody will see because nobody knows about it."

The registry's creator, state Rep. Bill Seitz, said he knows it is controversial but said it accomplishes the same goal as retroactively extending the statute of limitations.

The Ohio ACLU's legal director, Jeff Gamso, called the civil registry troubling.

"It is a dangerous, troublesome law," Gamso said. "This is punishment without the protection of a criminal proceeding."

Coolidge reports daily for The (Cincinnati) Enquirer

46 posted on 12/02/2006 2:39:03 PM PST by Theophilus (A person is a person no matter how small)
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To: Theophilus
The Ohio ACLU's legal director, Jeff Gamso, called the civil registry troubling.

"It is a dangerous, troublesome law," Gamso said. "This is punishment without the protection of a criminal proceeding."

For once I agree with the ACLU. It's a modern day witch hunt to get men in trouble for breathing. I can also see this would really come in handy for a woman fighting for custody of her kids. What a crock!

47 posted on 12/02/2006 2:44:59 PM PST by madison10 (If my people, who are called by My name will humble themselves and pray...I will heal their land.)
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