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Why abduct us? We cede our values for free
Chicag Sun-Times ^ | 3 Sept 06 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 09/03/2006 6:09:07 AM PDT by rellimpank

Did you see that video of the two Fox journalists announcing they'd converted to Islam? The larger problem, it seems to me, is that much of the rest of the Western media have also converted to Islam, and there seems to be no way to get them to convert back to journalism.

Consider, for example, the bizarre behavior of Reuters, the once globally respected news agency now reduced to putting out laughably inept terrorist propaganda.

(Excerpt) Read more at suntimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: centanni; forcedconversion; foxnews; islam; islamofascism; marksteyn; olafwiig; stevecentanni; steyn; terror; wiig
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--Steyn on Sunday--
1 posted on 09/03/2006 6:09:09 AM PDT by rellimpank
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To: rellimpank

I am still waiting for these two from FOX to publicly CONDEMN islam and their terrorist tactics.

Now that they are home, they have no excuse for still backing the islaofascists.


2 posted on 09/03/2006 6:13:05 AM PDT by TimesDomain (When a judge declares himself "MASTER", you become his "SLAVE")
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To: TimesDomain

What if the entire time they were held, they were told that thier families would be in danger if they retracted any portion of their statements?

What if their ordeal was so great they have a lot more important things on their mind than worrying about what you think?

I would be concentrating on being thankful to have made it home alive.


3 posted on 09/03/2006 6:17:30 AM PDT by The Coopster
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To: TimesDomain

They won't publically denounce Islam. That would mean a Fatwa on them. Kafir's are killed. Also they are most likely suffering from Stockholms Syndrom. Other journalists have no excuse though. I would love to see mainstream media call Islamic Excremists what they are terrorists instead of insurgents. Calling them insurgents make them seem almost noble in their pursuit of blood.


4 posted on 09/03/2006 6:20:00 AM PDT by YdontUleaveLibs
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To: rellimpank
This is just indicative of the times we live in where convictions and beliefs mean little. Many in the US especially on the left and in the MSM do not have any understanding that the Islamic fascists mean to destroy western civilization. During WW-II it was very clear to just about everybody that the Nazis could not be allowed to win and if they did it would be an end to individual liberty and the creation of a global police state. Allowing the Islamic fascists to win this war on terror would mean a global Islamic fascist theocracy and an end to all personal liberties. Perhaps we need a media series like Frank Capra's famous "Why We Fight" to get the message out.
5 posted on 09/03/2006 6:20:24 AM PDT by The Great RJ ("Mir wölle bleiwen wat mir sin" or "We want to remain what we are." ..Luxembourg motto)
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To: rellimpank
"Reuters, the once globally respected news agency now reduced to putting out laughably inept terrorist propaganda."

There's nothing new here. This is the same crowd that said it was "Better to be Red than Dead" and reported communist propaganda as if it were news when we were in a death struggle with the communists.

These are moral and physical cowards who believe in nothing but their own worthless lives. With a possible exception for a few Fox News reporters, this describes journalists worldwide.

6 posted on 09/03/2006 6:24:31 AM PDT by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: rellimpank
It doesn't matter how "understandable" Centanni and Wiig's actions are to us, what the target audience understands is quite different: that there is nothing we're willing to die for. And, to the Islamist mind, a society with nothing to die for is already dead

Excellent article. It sends chills down my spine, what I see happening at an accelerating speed around the world. Something big is coming very soon & are we ready to fight it? Have we already lost?

7 posted on 09/03/2006 6:24:54 AM PDT by alicewonders
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To: The Coopster

"What if the entire time they were held, they were told that thier families would be in danger if they retracted any portion of their statements?"

UH? They have already told all "non-believers" our lives and the lives of our children are in danger.

Do you fear muslims?


8 posted on 09/03/2006 6:28:28 AM PDT by takenoprisoner (Could mecca be Satan's' throne?)
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To: TimesDomain
Now that they are home, they have no excuse for still backing the islaofascists.

They want to appease them so they can continue to show the plight of the Palestinian terrorists.

Their jobs and popularity depend on it.

9 posted on 09/03/2006 6:28:52 AM PDT by EGPWS
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To: TimesDomain; YdontUleaveLibs

They have already stated that they want the stories of the Palestinian people told. Therefore, they aren't going to condemn all of Islam. They no doubt, have muslim friends.
I doubt they're sufferring Stockholm Syndrome, since those were their sentiments before they even got to Gaza.


10 posted on 09/03/2006 6:37:03 AM PDT by nuconvert ([there's a lot of bad people in the pistachio business])
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To: alicewonders

READ the WHOLE COLUMN at it source (Chicago Sun-Times). This essay is IT. Do not rely on the tiny excerpt alone. If you grasp what Steyn is saying here, you can skip much empty talk, and you will understand clearly the news of the coming days and decades.

Excellent piece. Actually, indispensable.


11 posted on 09/03/2006 6:39:44 AM PDT by docbnj
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To: The Coopster

What if you woke up and realised these two are enablers for the terrorists. Selling their immortal souls to the devil .


12 posted on 09/03/2006 6:42:56 AM PDT by sgtbono2002 (The fourth estate is a fifth column.)
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: The Coopster

And you cede your values on a mere supposition. Have you gone in harms way? I suspect that there would be a divide in the value of principle between those and those that have not gone in harms way.

Have I? Yes. I know how an enemy torpedo sounds.

The road to hell is paved with 'what ifs.'


14 posted on 09/03/2006 6:44:17 AM PDT by dhuffman@awod.com (The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.)
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To: takenoprisoner

I'm talking about two guys who were kidnapped and held, and what may or may not have happened to them their.

I am talking about not being so quick to judge that which we know nothing about.

Anyone here who has been kidnapped, held, and who knows what else by Islamic terrorists is free to wax philisophical about what these two may or may not do or feel.

Everyone else ought to put a sock in it.


15 posted on 09/03/2006 6:49:15 AM PDT by The Coopster
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To: The Coopster

Oops! Their=there.


16 posted on 09/03/2006 6:51:28 AM PDT by The Coopster
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To: dhuffman@awod.com

# 15 is for you as well.

I would also submit that the road to Hell is also full of people who judge others at the drop of a hat.


17 posted on 09/03/2006 6:54:39 AM PDT by The Coopster
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To: rellimpank

Mark Steyn is brilliant.


18 posted on 09/03/2006 6:58:31 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: sgtbono2002

And what if YOU don't know squat about their ordeal.

Oh wait - you DON'T.

I'm simply advocating not being so quick to judge.

Of course some days, and with some folks here on FR, that's a pretty tall order.


19 posted on 09/03/2006 7:01:28 AM PDT by The Coopster
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To: rellimpank

Wow! What a column! Mark Steyn is one of the most morally clear thinkers of our day and I pray more people listen to him. What he's saying is spot on. Truth be told I probably would have sold out to the Jihadis, too. I can blame the Foxies there. But Steyn's point is that 100 years ago we all wouldn't be such gutless ninnies. We would have stood for something...our faith, our values, our heritage. The Foxies could have been heroes. Now they're just called average.


20 posted on 09/03/2006 7:03:58 AM PDT by Rawlings (Tipton Time!)
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To: docbnj

My husband & I were talking the other day - what if this Fox reporter abduction happened for a reason? Perhaps its reason is to show all of us a portent of things to come? Just yesterday a video came out inviting us all to convert to Islam. The reporters had guns to their heads - but we might as well have guns to our heads as well.

Inviting us to convert is giving us a chance to save our 'heads' before the battle begins.


21 posted on 09/03/2006 7:04:06 AM PDT by alicewonders
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To: The Coopster

Yep. You're right. I do discriminate based on the slightest hint of the book's cover. There a zillion stories and I don't need to listen to the demotic.

My saintly anti-christian mother taught me that heaven and hell are here and now and depend only on what you make of it.

You may osculate my fundament in your next retort.


22 posted on 09/03/2006 7:06:45 AM PDT by dhuffman@awod.com (The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.)
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To: The Coopster
Anyone here who has been kidnapped, held, and who knows what else by Islamic terrorists is free to wax philisophical about what these two may or may not do or feel.

You have a good point, but that doesn't mean that Steyn is wrong. The Islamic world sees in the West people who largely won't die for what they believe in. Regardless of what you think about the kidnapping situation, the Islamic world is constantly testing our resolve, and finding it lacking.

At some point the fight will move closer to home, and we won't be able to solve the problem by pushing buttons or deploying volunteer soldiers to handle it for us. Are Americans willing to kill and die for our freedoms, or will we simply bow down and accept Islam in exchange for a long, peaceful life?

23 posted on 09/03/2006 7:15:36 AM PDT by Steel Wolf (- Islam will never survive being laughed at. -)
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To: TimesDomain
Now that they are home, they have no excuse for still backing the islaofascists.

Unless of course they care about the next people that get captured. The only way out alive is to pretend to convert to Islam. What do you think their chances would be if the islamofacists figure out we are faking converions.

You post like a person who does not give a crap about any one but himself... either that or you can't think your way out of a paper sack.

24 posted on 09/03/2006 7:15:50 AM PDT by Common Tator
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To: The Coopster

Please. You give them too much credit. We can come up with unlikely scenarios all day.


"What if they actually believe this BS??" How about THAT scenario????


25 posted on 09/03/2006 7:18:37 AM PDT by Shimmer128 (Deja moo: The feeling you've heard this bull before)
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To: dhuffman@awod.com; Common Tator

Well, I was trying to come up with a witty retort - like "Forcing big words makes you sound like Jesse Jackson", or something along those lines.

But instead, I will defer to Common Tator's response @ #24 above, which is much more direct, and applies to you, as well.


26 posted on 09/03/2006 7:21:14 AM PDT by The Coopster
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To: Rawlings

Steyn tried, but he got this all wrong.


27 posted on 09/03/2006 7:22:56 AM PDT by unsycophant
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To: Steel Wolf
Are Americans willing to kill and die for our freedoms, or will we simply bow down and accept Islam in exchange for a long, peaceful life?

Americans will kill and die for our freedoms.

Right now the muslims are mistaking tolerance for weakness.

The time will come when history will repeat itself, and this time we will turn Arab cites into rubble, and muslims into vapor.

28 posted on 09/03/2006 7:25:29 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle (God has blessed Republicans with political enemies who are going senile.)
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To: Pokey78
For the ping list?

[The] Western media have also converted to Islam, and there seems to be no way to get them to convert back to journalism.... the central truth Osama and the mullahs have been peddling -- that the West is weak, that there's nothing -- no core, no bedrock -- nothing it's not willing to trade.... And, to the Islamist mind, a society with nothing to die for is already dead.

Just damn.

29 posted on 09/03/2006 7:37:30 AM PDT by leilani
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To: rellimpank

"The larger problem, it seems to me, is that much of the rest of the Western media have also converted to Islam, and there seems to be no way to get them to convert back to journalism."

Brilliant!


30 posted on 09/03/2006 7:53:57 AM PDT by observer5 (It's not a War on Terror - it's a WAR ON STUPIDITY)
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To: leilani

The underlying assumption behind emphasizing war casualties sems to be that nothing is worth dying for. Patrick Henry's, "Give me liberty or give me death." is not now holding sway with media. I think they think life begins and ends at Starbucks.


31 posted on 09/03/2006 7:58:25 AM PDT by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: rellimpank

I am at the point where I see some positive benefit from anything that radical islamists do that increases awareness and animosity from the rest-of-us. The Muhammad cartoon madness and this latest forced conversion to Islam both show the radical islamists for what they are and they break thru to the general public from the MSM mime that Islamist culture is just another culture to be understood. As Marc Steyn says, we don't know if the west has the will to resist the war with radical islam. Since time is on the Islamists side, the faster we can mobilize the west, the better.


32 posted on 09/03/2006 8:02:07 AM PDT by sandbox
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To: Vn_survivor_67-68

ISLAM = FASCIST DEATH CULT

When will people stop referring to this brain desease as a "religion"

It needs to be outlawed in all civilized countries!


33 posted on 09/03/2006 8:07:35 AM PDT by observer5 (It's not a War on Terror - it's a WAR ON STUPIDITY)
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To: All
Enclosed is my suggestion for the US. [Proposed]
DECLARATION OF WAR WITH RADICAL ISLAM Joint Resolution Declaring that a State of War exists between Radical Islam and the Government and People of the United States and making provisions to prosecute same. Whereas the extraterritorial movement known as Radical Islam has planned, advocated, and committed unprovoked acts of War against the people of the United States of America Whereas, numerous representatives of said Radical Islam have announced that their exists a State of War between radical Islam and the United States, Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, that a State of War now exists between Radical Islam and the United States and is hereby formally declared. The President is authorized and directed to employ the military forces of the United States as needed and the resources of the Government to carry on the war against Radical Islam. Further, recognizing the danger posed by individuals who are loyal to Radical Islam who are now or may in the future be residing in the United States and its territories, the President and the Attorney General of the United States are hereby authorized to identify such individuals, take them into preventive custody, and deport them from the United States. For purposes of this Declaration, Radical Islam is defined as those individuals or organizations who advocate, support, plan or execute jihad attacks against the United States and its foreign allies and interests or those who support the overthrow of the Constitutional government of the United States and in its place the establishment of Sharia law. Further, the distinction is made herein between Radical Islam and Moderate Islam (the later being expressly excepted from the intent of this Declaration.)
Taking Sides
34 posted on 09/03/2006 8:13:22 AM PDT by sandbox
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To: All
Enclosed is my suggestion for the US. [Proposed]
DECLARATION OF WAR WITH RADICAL ISLAM Joint Resolution Declaring that a State of War exists between Radical Islam and the Government and People of the United States and making provisions to prosecute same. Whereas the extraterritorial movement known as Radical Islam has planned, advocated, and committed unprovoked acts of War against the people of the United States of America Whereas, numerous representatives of said Radical Islam have announced that their exists a State of War between radical Islam and the United States, Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, that a State of War now exists between Radical Islam and the United States and is hereby formally declared. The President is authorized and directed to employ the military forces of the United States as needed and the resources of the Government to carry on the war against Radical Islam. Further, recognizing the danger posed by individuals who are loyal to Radical Islam who are now or may in the future be residing in the United States and its territories, the President and the Attorney General of the United States are hereby authorized to identify such individuals, take them into preventive custody, and deport them from the United States. For purposes of this Declaration, Radical Islam is defined as those individuals or organizations who advocate, support, plan or execute jihad attacks against the United States and its foreign allies and interests or those who support the overthrow of the Constitutional government of the United States and in its place the establishment of Sharia law. Further, the distinction is made herein between Radical Islam and Moderate Islam (the later being expressly excepted from the intent of this Declaration.)
Taking Sides
35 posted on 09/03/2006 8:13:26 AM PDT by sandbox
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To: The Great RJ
"During WW-II it was very clear to just about everybody that the Nazis could not be allowed to win and if they did it would be an end to individual liberty and the creation of a global police state. "

True, but correct me if I'm wrong....the American left was quite happy to leave Hitler alone and pooh-pooh the threat until he turned on Stalin, whom our local communists held dear. Perhaps the hope, then, is that our islamofascists will make the mistake of senselessly murdering a bunch of liberals or destroy in a big way something they hold dear. No other way will our homegrown leftists come out of their stupid fog. I suppose that, right now, the only thing that would be able to goad our wacko democrats into a war footing would be for Osama to endorse Bush.
36 posted on 09/03/2006 8:14:45 AM PDT by wgflyer (Liberalism is to society what HIV is to the immune system.)
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To: Common Tator
Unless of course they care about the next people that get captured. The only way out alive is to pretend to convert to Islam. What do you think their chances would be if the islamofacists figure out we are faking converions.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

islamists know the conversions were faked. They have been forcing conversions for 1400 years. islam means submission. The journalists submitted to the will of allah. If they now renounce they will be killed, its that simple. For muslims viewing the video it shows them the power of allah that these infidels could be forced to submit. This concept is very hard for westerners to comprehend. Even though the conversion was done to save their lives it was still an act of submission to the will of allah, that is the message is here. It shows all other muslims the power of allah over the infidels. We have existed as free people since the crusades. A muslim would never renounce his religion because it is more important than his freedom and his earthly life. That's why they suicide bomb, and that's why they crash planes into buildings.
37 posted on 09/03/2006 8:34:57 AM PDT by photodawg
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To: photodawg

These "forced conversions' show why islam is in truth the most brittle of all faiths and in fact, is really a cult.


38 posted on 09/03/2006 9:13:32 AM PDT by Biggirl (A biggirl with a big heart for God's animal creation.)
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To: Biggirl

islam is downright "Bolshevik", ain't it?


39 posted on 09/03/2006 10:04:30 AM PDT by Vn_survivor_67-68
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To: rellimpank
Steyn Quote Of The Year: "A society with nothing to die for, to the Islamist mind, is already dead." If we don't have any core convictions, let's face it, to the other side, the West has already passed into the sunset. Oswald Spengler was right about the decline of the West but wrong about the date.

(No more Olmert! No more Kadima! No more Oslo! )

40 posted on 09/03/2006 10:43:25 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: The Coopster
Everyone else ought to put a sock in it.

I wasn't around for the Revolution either, so maybe you'll think I have no standing to ask this question but ...

Whom do you have greater respect for: Patrick Henry, or Steve Centanni?

ML/NJ

41 posted on 09/03/2006 11:20:43 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: rellimpank

To: Don Joe
Fox, and all of the media have "converted to Islam". They are going to great lengths to promote Islam. The FCC should re-classify these "news" organizations as purely religious broadcasts. And there are many here posting that it is OK for the US media to promote Islam. Unbelievable.

379 posted on 08/27/2006 5:29:48 AM CDT by ARealMothersSonForever
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1690714/posts?page=379#379

Steyn owes ME bigtime!


42 posted on 09/03/2006 11:25:01 AM PDT by ARealMothersSonForever
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To: scholar; Bullish; linear; yoda swings

Ping


43 posted on 09/03/2006 11:26:42 AM PDT by knighthawk (We will always remember We will always be proud We will always be prepared so we may always be free)
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To: ml/nj

I've never understood why some folks insist on signing their name, even though the posts clearly contain the poster info.

Outside of that - post to me in something resembling logical thought and I'll reply. Your question has zero meaning re: my conversations/posts here.

Read them all. Comprehend. THEN reply. It's really quite simple.


44 posted on 09/03/2006 11:52:49 AM PDT by The Coopster
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To: Vn_survivor_67-68; 1000 silverlings; xzins; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; P-Marlowe; topcat54; ...
Bump to a great story by Mark Steyn in the "Chicago Sun Times."

Bump also to post #13 from the "Washington Times."

The "silence" is deafening.

45 posted on 09/03/2006 12:05:25 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: HarleyD; Forest Keeper

BUMP


46 posted on 09/03/2006 12:42:30 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: ml/nj
Whom do you have greater respect for: Patrick Henry, or Steve Centanni?

While that question may be academic, it is not unimportant. It is something all of us needs to think about.

47 posted on 09/03/2006 12:45:50 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
While that question may be academic, it is not unimportant. It is something all of us needs to think about.

Maybe you should have posted this to "The Coopster." (he, of the giant intellect)

ML/NJ

48 posted on 09/03/2006 1:01:15 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: rellimpank

They had a gun pointed at their head.

The cameraman did state however what they wanted from the west. He said the terrorist said it would just be easier if the west converted to Islam and there wouldn't be anymore terrorism.

That one statement says everything you need to know right there.


49 posted on 09/03/2006 1:03:47 PM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: rellimpank

Excellent column. Thanks for posting it.


50 posted on 09/03/2006 1:28:07 PM PDT by good old days
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