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High cost may slow Lockheed Martin's F-22 Raptor
Dallas Morning News ^ | August 29, 2006 | RICHARD WHITTLE

Posted on 09/03/2006 7:51:28 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

High cost may slow Lockheed Martin's F-22 Raptor

11:14 PM CDT on Tuesday, August 29, 2006

By RICHARD WHITTLE / The Dallas Morning News

LANGLEY AIR FORCE BASE, Va. – Neighbors of this history-laden airfield are getting used to a new sight: a plane roughly the color and shape of a giant arrowhead that takes off with a throaty roar and disappears in a hurry.

Built partly in Fort Worth, the Lockheed Martin Corp. F-22 Raptor is the Air Force's newest, fastest, stealthiest and most potent fighter jet. In a two-week exercise in Alaska this June, the Raptors of Langley's 27th Fighter Squadron racked up a record of 241-2 in mock battles with older U.S. fighters, according to Lt. Col. Wade Tolliver, the squadron's commander.

(Excerpt) Read more at dallasnews.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: airforce; armsbuildup; f22; f22a; lockheedmartin; miltech; raptor; usaf

1 posted on 09/03/2006 7:51:29 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

The way I see it, if it costs less than 120 times what a F-15 costs it is worth it. (241/2)


2 posted on 09/03/2006 7:57:45 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: sukhoi-30mki
One of the only drawbacks to this aircraft is the smaller load of weapons it can carry since everything is held in internal bays. There are no external hardpoints.

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3 posted on 09/03/2006 8:00:32 AM PDT by stm (Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

How many could we buy if we diverted the money from the UN?

The F-22 is a much better investment.


4 posted on 09/03/2006 8:01:44 AM PDT by ryan71
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To: stm

I've read that they can be fitted with less stealthy weapons pods for the stand off type weapons. The concept as I understood it was to get within rage, fire the long range weapons, dump the pods and disappear.


5 posted on 09/03/2006 8:06:31 AM PDT by cripplecreek (If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?)
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To: stm

Huh???The Raptor can be readily fitted with 4 external hardpoints for tanks or weaponry,though that would affect it's stealth & agility adversely.8 internal hardpoints,combined with it's range is more than sufficient for it.


6 posted on 09/03/2006 8:08:49 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki
In a two-week exercise in Alaska this June

Saw some F-16s, but no F-22s. Guess cloaking is part of the new design.

7 posted on 09/03/2006 8:10:32 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: Last Dakotan
The way I see it, if it costs less than 120 times what a F-15 costs it is worth it. (241/2)

However, we'll probably lose more F-22s to accidents or poor maintenance than to any round-to-air missiles or even to aireal combat.

It seems like every year we hear about an accident with an F-16 or some other military aircraft.

If the F-22 wasn't built perfect, then it too will have it's accidents and maintenance related mishaps. Every time an F-22 fighter crashes you're going to hear people cry out with a loud "OUCH!".

Two or three of those lost in accidents per year would be the equivalent of many F-16s.
8 posted on 09/03/2006 8:14:50 AM PDT by adorno
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To: RightWhale

Hey, I know, if we buy twice as many, we can get a price reduction, too bad congress can't figure that out.

Congress," They're so expensive, we'll only buy half as many, but that makes them even more expensive so we'll have to buy less than that....."

Eventually they'll get to the point of buying only one,
very ezpensive aircraft.


9 posted on 09/03/2006 8:15:47 AM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

If they would take the billions they are stuffing in Haliburton's pockets and wasting in Iraq they would have enough money to buy another hundred or so.


10 posted on 09/03/2006 8:31:33 AM PDT by mississippi red-neck (You will never win the war on terrorism by fighting it in Iraq and funding it in the West Bank.)
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To: tet68

You can Buy 3 F-15's with an Absolute 100% Perfect record of surviveability and Kill rate or 1 F-22.


11 posted on 09/03/2006 8:33:44 AM PDT by MisouriMule (Islam is a Death CULT.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Only time media gives a crap about the cost of something is when it involves the military.


12 posted on 09/03/2006 8:37:47 AM PDT by TheRedSoxWinThePennant
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Considering that we still have superiority over anything else with such birds as the F-15, why not keep the F-22 program around and even advance that but also keep producing F-15s and improving those as well. I'd hate to see advanced aircraft not be developed but I'd also hate to see us with too few birds due to high costs.

It isn't a kill ratio that makes the aircraft so great once a seriously superior kill ratio has been established, it is getting those birds to every place they need to be around the globe. Too high a cost means fewer birds.


13 posted on 09/03/2006 8:38:37 AM PDT by CodeToad
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To: sukhoi-30mki

US war fighting doctrine begins with first obtaining air superiority. If we lack for enough F-22's to gain that air superiority, all the rest of our war fighting strategy collapses. Also, while the F-22 is way better than anything else at the moment, other nations will start closing the performance gap, and then we are going to need a lot more of them. With that said, UAV's are the wave of the future and manned fighters may be on the way out. UAV's without the need for life support, or g-force restrictions, are more nimble and potentially stealthier and definitely more expendable.


14 posted on 09/03/2006 8:41:17 AM PDT by Eagle74 (From time to time the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots)
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To: TheRedSoxWinThePennant

"High Cost May Slow Public Education Union Dues"

"High Cost May Slow Spending on Abortions"

"High Cost May Slow Human Embryo Cloning"


15 posted on 09/03/2006 8:42:18 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (VISUALIZE NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
The Raptor can be readily fitted with 4 external hardpoints for tanks or weaponry,though that would affect it's stealth & agility adversely.

Tanks are OK as long as you can drop them before you get close to the bad guys area, without any residual fastenings that would affect your stealth

16 posted on 09/03/2006 8:44:38 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (A planned society is most appealing to those with the arrogance to think they will be the planners)
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To: tet68
Congress," They're so expensive, we'll only buy half as many, but that makes them even more expensive so we'll have to buy less than that....."

Honest accounting would separate out development cost from per-unit manufacturing costs, the former to be paid up-front rather than amortized per-plane. But honest accounting is alien to politicians

17 posted on 09/03/2006 8:47:07 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (A planned society is most appealing to those with the arrogance to think they will be the planners)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

The price per plane I recently read was four hundred and thirty one million dollars.
Will post a link if I am able to find it.


18 posted on 09/03/2006 9:01:34 AM PDT by em2vn
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To: stm

I love it when these aircraft articles are so well illustrated. Thank yoou.


19 posted on 09/03/2006 9:10:42 AM PDT by RoadTest (- - - for without victory there is no survival. -Winston Churchill)
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To: RoadTest

You're welcome. I have seen several of these aircraft landing in section at Montgomery AL's Maxwell AFB. They are impressive.


20 posted on 09/03/2006 9:15:07 AM PDT by stm (Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence)
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To: cripplecreek

Convenient, even if on the incoming run they would be more detectable.


21 posted on 09/03/2006 9:21:29 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( http://www.answersingenesis.org)
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To: RightWhale

I got to see their first public showing in Chicago last year; just got lucky on the timing. Beautiful planes.


22 posted on 09/03/2006 9:33:49 AM PDT by logic101.net (Support OUR troops, NOT their's!)
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To: CodeToad
Considering that we still have superiority over anything else with such birds as the F-15,

The new SU's are every bit as good as the F-15, which is after all a late 1960s design. Even the F-16 and F-18 are early '70s designs. I remember the flyoff between the YF-16 and YF-17 (predecessor to the F-18). The threat evolves, your systems must do so as well.

23 posted on 09/03/2006 10:06:12 AM PDT by El Gato
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To: CodeToad

Wasn't the F-15 C/D line closed a long while ago???F-15Es are still being built for export orders,none for the USAF.


24 posted on 09/04/2006 5:58:13 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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