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The "running out of oil" myth, and the inside story on illegal immigration
Renew America ^ | September 4, 2006 | Wes Vernon

Posted on 09/05/2006 7:05:37 AM PDT by seasoned traditionalist

Next time you stop at the pump and pay through-the-stratosphere prices to fill your car's tank, just ponder this: We are not — repeat, we are not running out of oil. There is no good reason you should be paying through the nose. There are only bad reasons for it. If you are also angry about illegal aliens pouring over the border, you should know that illegal immigration is the price we are paying to keep to keep gas prices from going even higher, maybe two or three times higher.

(Excerpt) Read more at renewamerica.us ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: aliens; blameenvirowackos; east; energy; eviromental; exploration; illegal; immigrantlist; kyoto; mexico; middle; myths; oil; politics; propaganda; reserves; solutions; supply; terrorists; wackos
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Thought provoking and worth serious consideration. It does go a long way toward explaining why (both parties) appear to be [un]willing to take a serious approach in securing our borders.

I have read somewhere, that we (the US) purchases just about all of Mexico's oil that it produces.

Thus ANY measure we were to impose in which we actually to stem the flow of illegals streaming across would probably result (and here I’m assuming that perhaps W’s good “bud” Vincente “may” have “cautioned” Bush and others against moving to close and secure the borders) in the flow of much needed oil, suddenly, becoming less available, though this would severely disrupt and hurt Mexico’s economy.

This scenario, appears to lend credibility to those who argue that there must be a reason in which pols are unwilling to do what we could/should—if we were really serious—in securing our Southern Border, other than the influence from the pro-illegal alien/amnesty crowd as well as pressure from bidd business who desperately want to keep the flow of cheap labor unabated.

Last but not least, there are some here who will discount this “automatically,” as the author references Jerome Corsi who co-authored the book which is quoted herein as source for the arugments advanced by Vernon, much as they automatically (regardless of how many other reputable people espouse the same) discount the possibility that there is a movement to eliminate our borders and join Mexico and Canada into a North American Union.

Oh, well, flame on!!!

1 posted on 09/05/2006 7:05:40 AM PDT by seasoned traditionalist
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To: seasoned traditionalist
Next time you stop at the pump and pay trough-the-stratosphere prices
BS. Gas prices are high, but nothing compared to what they were in the 70s.
2 posted on 09/05/2006 7:09:34 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: seasoned traditionalist; oh8eleven
oh8eleven makes a perfectly valid point: in constant dollar terms, gasoline prices are not 'stratospheric.

There, in fact, is a perfectly good reason why petroleum prices are high: the world's two most populace nations, China and India, are both undergoing rapid economic development and generating huge new demand for petroleum.

The 'running out of oil' stuff is, of course, rubbish: at these prices oil shale is viable as an oil source, and we've got lots of that.

3 posted on 09/05/2006 7:13:18 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: seasoned traditionalist

Supply and demand. Unfortunately, illegals are pure demand.


4 posted on 09/05/2006 7:15:13 AM PDT by cripplecreek (If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?)
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To: seasoned traditionalist

The mayor of Houston Texas was very worried about
a plague of pigeons in Houston.



The mayor could not remove the pigeons from the city.
All of Houston was full of pigeon poop. The people of
Houston couldn't walk on the sidewalks or drive on the
roads. It was costing a fortune to try to keep the
streets and sidewalks clean.



One day a man came to City Hall and offered the Mayor
a proposition. "I can rid your beautiful city of its
plague of pigeons without cost to the city. But, you
must promise not to ask me any questions. Or, you can
pay me five million dollars and ask one question."



The mayor considered the offer briefly and accepted
the free proposition.



The next day the man climbed to the top of City Hall,
opened his coat, and released a red pigeon. The red
pigeon circled in the air and flew up into the bright
blue Texas sky. All the pigeons in Houston saw the red
pigeon. They gathered up behind the red pigeon. The
Houston pigeons followed the red pigeon as she flew
eastward out of the city.



The next day the red pigeon returned completely alone
to the man atop City Hall. The Mayor was very
impressed. He thought the man and the red pigeon had
performed a wonderful miraculous feat to rid Houston
of the plague of pigeons.



Even though the man with the pigeon had charged
nothing, the mayor presented him with a check for 5
million dollars and told the man that, indeed, he did
have a question to ask and even though they had agreed
to no fee and the man had rid the city of pigeons, he
decided to pay the 5 million just to get to ask ONE
question.



The man accepted the money and told the mayor to ask
his question.



The mayor asked: "Do you have any red Mexicans?"


5 posted on 09/05/2006 7:15:23 AM PDT by IrishMike (Democrats .... Stuck on Stupid, RINO's ...the most vicious judas goats)
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To: IrishMike

Very nice!


6 posted on 09/05/2006 7:18:57 AM PDT by Nomorjer Kinov (If the opposite of "pro" is "con" , what is the opposite of progress?)
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To: seasoned traditionalist

Two words: OIL SHALE

There's 2 trillion barrels of oil right here in the good ol' USA...F the Middle East!!!


7 posted on 09/05/2006 7:20:07 AM PDT by TampaDude (If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the PROBLEM!!!)
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To: seasoned traditionalist

So Mexico would just hold onto all of its oil? They wouldn't sell it to anyone?

Puhleeeze.


8 posted on 09/05/2006 7:23:13 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter
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To: oh8eleven

I saw $2.48 for Hugo's gas this morning on the drive in.


9 posted on 09/05/2006 7:24:51 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: seasoned traditionalist
"...there must be a reason in which pols are unwilling to do what we could/should—if we were really serious—in securing our Southern Border... ."

Because there is ---NO---"Southern Border."

Been gone a long time...flame on....

10 posted on 09/05/2006 7:25:13 AM PDT by 100-Fold_Return (III John 2)
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To: seasoned traditionalist
The author has been reading FR; it's been mentioned many times that the ultimate reason for Bush's open-border policy is the necessity of maintaining stability in Mexico.

And it's not just oil either, although that is a factor. More serious is the potential opportunity for players like China/Iran to take advantage of a civil war-torn Mexico in similar fashion as N Korea/Lebanon.

The long-term play is the WoT - the bet is the US will internally survive.

11 posted on 09/05/2006 7:27:40 AM PDT by Chuck Dent
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To: oh8eleven
Hey everybody...stop your b*tchin'!

A gallon of Benjamin Moore paint...Matte Finish... color HC-61 is $46.45 with tax.

;^)

12 posted on 09/05/2006 7:28:26 AM PDT by DCPatriot ("It aint what you don't know that kills you. It's what you know that aint so" Theodore Sturgeon)
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To: TampaDude
Two words: OIL SHALE There's 2 trillion barrels of oil right here in the good ol' USA...F the Middle East!!!

Chevron just found a huge reserve in the Gulf of Mexico off of Louisiana...Estimates are indicating that it could increase the U.S. Oil reserve by 50%!

13 posted on 09/05/2006 7:30:46 AM PDT by frogjerk (REUTERS: We give smoke and mirrors a bad name)
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To: seasoned traditionalist
Illegals and Gas shortages reminded me of the old Charlton Heston flick Soylent Green.

Mexico "Fueling" America's economy?

14 posted on 09/05/2006 7:31:12 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: Straight Vermonter
So Mexico would just hold onto all of its oil? They wouldn't sell it to anyone?

Puhleeeze

That is NOT what the author suggests or I consider, a valid assumption.

No, what is hinted at herein, is the possibility that Mexico would/could very easily find other "buyers" for their precious oil.

Is that scenario so far fetched as to stretch the credulity/credibility in your mind?

15 posted on 09/05/2006 7:31:54 AM PDT by seasoned traditionalist (ALL MUSLIMS ARE NOT TERRORISTS, BUT ALL TERRORISTS WHO WANT TO DESTROY OUR COUNTRY, ARE MUSLIMS)
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To: seasoned traditionalist

That is BS, if the Mexican govt is holding us ransom over allowing illegals in, they are pretty stupid. I would be willing to bet that they make more than 17 billion that the illegals send home every year, selling crude to us.


16 posted on 09/05/2006 7:32:00 AM PDT by jeremiah (Our military are not "fodder", but fathers and mothers and sons and daughters.)
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To: The_Reader_David

We're not running out of oil--but we have run out of cheap oil. It get's harder and harder to find large quantities of oil--but you are correct; as we do deplenish cheaper sources, then oil shale (and gas) become viable alternatives. As long as we have a gasoline infrastructure, we will be slaves to oil.


17 posted on 09/05/2006 7:32:43 AM PDT by richardtavor (Pray for the peace of Jerusalem in the name of the G-d of Jacob)
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To: IrishMike

ROFL!!


18 posted on 09/05/2006 7:32:58 AM PDT by cibco (Xin Loi! Saddam)
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To: frogjerk

Are you sure about that last part?


19 posted on 09/05/2006 7:34:44 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter
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To: seasoned traditionalist

So Mexico sells to someone else and we buy the oil the other buyer would have bought. Oil is oil. It is a fungible commodity.


20 posted on 09/05/2006 7:35:45 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter
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To: seasoned traditionalist

Oh sheesh, high oil prices is the immigrants fault? What about the mostly white bread envirowhackos, they are the ones for the cause of high gas prices.


21 posted on 09/05/2006 7:38:03 AM PDT by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: seasoned traditionalist
The "Deep Hot Biospere" as a potential source is irrelevant because, even if it does exist, it does not refill depleted pools at a rate needed to be beneficial and there is no technology needed to drill into the deep-hot.

As for Mexico's potential, that is largly dependent on foreign oil companies(hopefully US) developing that potential because Mexico doesn't have the technology or capital to do it.

As for this book, it is just another stoooopid attempt to weave a conspiracy theory so Corsi can sell books and Craig Smith can sell gold to the kooks.

22 posted on 09/05/2006 7:38:58 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Straight Vermonter
So Mexico sells to someone else and we buy the oil the other buyer would have bought. Oil is oil. It is a fungible commodity.

It's amazing the economic ignorance by some on FR(not you SV).

23 posted on 09/05/2006 7:40:32 AM PDT by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: Straight Vermonter
Are you sure about that last part?

From: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1695726/posts

The Journal said Chevron and Devon officials estimate that recent discoveries in the Gulf of Mexico's lower-tertiary formations hold up to 15 billion barrels' worth of oil and gas reserves, a total that would boost the nation's current reserves by 50 percent.

24 posted on 09/05/2006 7:40:43 AM PDT by frogjerk (REUTERS: We give smoke and mirrors a bad name)
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To: oh8eleven

Where were you in the 70's? Gas was never $3.oo or even $2.oo per gallon. At least not in Texas.


25 posted on 09/05/2006 7:41:02 AM PDT by Msgt USMC
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To: frogjerk

That is tremendous. Thanks for the heads up!


26 posted on 09/05/2006 7:41:54 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter
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To: Msgt USMC
Where were you in the 70's? Gas was never $3.oo or even $2.oo per gallon. At least not in Texas.

The poster was talking about inflation adjusted prices. IIRC, 1981 still holds the record as the year of the highest gasoline prices.

27 posted on 09/05/2006 7:43:09 AM PDT by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: Ben Ficklin
The "Deep Hot Biospere" as a potential source is irrelevant because, even if it does exist, it does not refill depleted pools at a rate needed to be beneficial and there is no technology needed to drill into the deep-hot.

Agreed the general thrust of this statement, but there is another possible value in Gold's perspecive on the genesis of oil from primordial sources, and that is that we might gain some insigts as to where to look. This might very well be marginal, because oil trapping formations would work the same regardless of whether the oil is of geological origin or biobenic origin, but still there might be a discovery or two in there.

28 posted on 09/05/2006 7:45:34 AM PDT by John Valentine
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To: seasoned traditionalist

Check this out:

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060905/major_oil_discovery.html?.v=10

New oil find in Gulf of Mexico could boost U.S. reserves by 50%!


29 posted on 09/05/2006 7:52:20 AM PDT by rightinthemiddle (Without the Media, the Left and Islamofacists are Nothing.)
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To: Msgt USMC
Msgt USMC
Since May 22, 2006

Welcome aboard and Semper Fi ...

You're right, the price per gallon wasn't as high in actual dollar values. But "back in the day" the price escalated to five, six or even ten times (IIRC) what it had been, and as percentage of minimum wage, take home pay, home budgets, etc., it was much higher than what we see today.
30 posted on 09/05/2006 7:53:31 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: oh8eleven
According to the inflation calculator, $2.85/gal would be $.76/gal in 1975. I forget, what was the price of gas then?

31 posted on 09/05/2006 7:54:22 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: seasoned traditionalist

they ought to mark this one political incest alert....


32 posted on 09/05/2006 7:56:38 AM PDT by PDR
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To: oh8eleven
Next time you stop at the pump and pay trough-the-stratosphere prices

BS. Gas prices are high, but nothing compared to what they were in the 70s.

Really? I don't know how old you are, but I can remember "vividly" the jump in prices (DOUBLING) in the early 70's (as I had just got out of an 8 year enlistment in AF) and had started working in the Insurance Business, which I ended up getting out of because gas prices were killing me.

I also remember paying as little as 18 cents a gallon when I started driving in 1959.

Okay, I know what you (and others) will suggest as to the value of a dollar today, in 1970's terms.

Thus, read on McDuff!!!

http://www.1970sflashback.com/1976/Economy.asp

Category

Economy / Prices

1976 Economy / Prices

Economy

President: Gerald R. Ford

Vice President: Nelson A. Rockefeller

Population: 218,035,164

Life expectancy: 72.9 years

Federal spending: $371.79 billion

Federal debt: $629.0 billion

Inflation: 8.7%

Consumer Price Index: 56.9 Unemployment: 8.5%

Prices

Cost of a new home: $48,000.00

Median Household Income: $12,686.00

Cost of a first-class stamp: $0.13

Cost of a gallon of regular gas: $0.59

Cost of a dozen eggs: $0.84

Cost of a gallon of Milk: $1.65

Allowance for inflation

The allowance of $0.59 you received in 1976 would be worth $1.99 today.

http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/allowance/allowance_101.html?step=calced&templName=allowance.html&resultsmode=3&allowance=.59&year=1976

Thus, I don't know WHERE you are buying your gas, but please let us ALL know as there are a few of us out here, who are paying just a mite over $1.99 a gallon.

33 posted on 09/05/2006 8:03:48 AM PDT by seasoned traditionalist (ALL MUSLIMS ARE NOT TERRORISTS, BUT ALL TERRORISTS WHO WANT TO DESTROY OUR COUNTRY, ARE MUSLIMS)
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To: William Terrell
Sorry, I can't even remember what I had for breakfast. I'm sure a Google search will find it.
There were two huge spikes in the 70s too, not just one ('75 and '79?).
34 posted on 09/05/2006 8:04:38 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: seasoned traditionalist

Bogus argument in this article.

Gas costs what is costs because consumers are willing to pay that price. The argument that gas prices are high due to some supply problem is not valid. Has anyone seen widespread "We Have No Gas" signs in front of filling stations?

The number of illegal aliens in this country has little to do with the price of gas. It has a lot more to do with the amount of spine in the backs of our politicians.


35 posted on 09/05/2006 8:07:09 AM PDT by kidd
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To: seasoned traditionalist
The allowance of $0.59 you received in 1976 would be worth $1.99 today.
And at $3/gal today that's a 33% increase. A 33% increase in the price you supplied would put gas at about $0.79.
I remember it being a lot more than that. Of course I was paying NY State taxes too.
36 posted on 09/05/2006 8:13:56 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: seasoned traditionalist

You may be correct, but I do not think that we should sell our country/culture down the river by allowing illegals in exchange for oil.


37 posted on 09/05/2006 8:14:08 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free
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To: sauropod

.


38 posted on 09/05/2006 8:14:22 AM PDT by sauropod (Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." PJO)
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To: seasoned traditionalist
The allowance of $0.59 you received in 1976 would be worth $1.99 today.

The only way these numbers work out is by assuming an average inflation rate of 4.14% from '76 to '06, compounded annually.

A quick look at your own post give the inflation in '76 at 8.7%. Inflation during the Carter presidency was double digit, and even during the Reagan administration generally exceeded 5%.

With an average inflation rate of just 6% the price of gasoline would be $3.39.

39 posted on 09/05/2006 8:24:33 AM PDT by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: richardtavor

In reality we are not "slaves to oil". Find me an energy source that can get my family of four from Austin to Dallas in 3 hours in relative comfort for $20, and I might consider changing. Right now there is none. Its by far the cheapest/safest/most convienent energy source we have.

Until that dynamic changes we will continue to use oil. And frankly I do not have a problem with that.


40 posted on 09/05/2006 8:47:08 AM PDT by thepainster
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To: thepainster

Thank you. I wish everyone was as sensible as that. Having been in the business for so long, it always surprises me how my family and friends think that we are gouging them.....I sometimes think drug dealers get more respect...


41 posted on 09/05/2006 9:01:14 AM PDT by richardtavor (Pray for the peace of Jerusalem in the name of the G-d of Jacob)
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To: cripplecreek
Supply and demand. Unfortunately, illegals are pure demand.

by those who would break the law to make easy money.

You sound like a an El Presedente Bush apologist. Bush can never come around to completing the thought when he chants his mantra, "They are here doing the work that Americans won't do" [at half the customary wage rate].

42 posted on 09/05/2006 9:12:57 AM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The only good Mullah is a dead Mullah. The only good Mosque is the one that used to be there.)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
You sound like a an El Presedente Bush apologist.

I think you should take a look at my comments on past immigration threads before making such comments. Are you trying to tell me that illegal aliens actually increase gas supplies by some kind of magic?
43 posted on 09/05/2006 9:16:46 AM PDT by cripplecreek (If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?)
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To: Scotsman will be Free
"You may be correct, but I do not think that we should sell our country/culture down the river by allowing illegals in exchange for oil.

Absolutely, I agree.

What is that saying about making a deal with the devil, Faust, I believe?

I am NOT suggesting that this scenario is one which is beyond dispute, ONLY that it is conceivable and theoretically, one of the reasons, "we" have been reluctant to approach the border security issues with any degree of seriousness, we ALL know we could accomplish, if we so desired.

Not necessarily a conspiracy theorist, but this does makes sense to me.

44 posted on 09/05/2006 9:22:21 AM PDT by seasoned traditionalist (ALL MUSLIMS ARE NOT TERRORISTS, BUT ALL TERRORISTS WHO WANT TO DESTROY OUR COUNTRY, ARE MUSLIMS)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; 7.62 x 51mm; ..

ping


45 posted on 09/05/2006 9:28:35 AM PDT by gubamyster
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To: seasoned traditionalist

on the immigration myth, remember we have amnesty now for those who have been in the USA. There ALREADY IS A PATH TO CITIZENSHIP.

the difference between the law now and the senate amnesty bill is that the law now is a 15 year path and the senate wants it to require LESS PROOF and last only 5 years.


46 posted on 09/05/2006 9:28:45 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: seasoned traditionalist
Next time you stop at the pump and pay through-the-stratosphere prices to fill your car's tank

Gas prices are not stratospheric and in fact, the prices have dropped considerable in the last month.

At the Circle K where I buy, the price has dropped over 25 cents in the last 3 weeks.

47 posted on 09/05/2006 9:33:36 AM PDT by Marine Inspector (Customs & Border Protection Officer)
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To: Straight Vermonter
So Mexico would just hold onto all of its oil? They wouldn't sell it to anyone?

A thought: More Mexicans in Mexico would likely force reform and consumption of its natural resources, weakening oil exports. Under the current system, both Mexican people and Mexican oil go to the US where we make a pretty penny off of both.

In a reformed Mexico US oil interests would take a direct hit, even though Mexico would benefit. I suspect even with pricier oil Americans would also benefit from having a healthier Mexico, but if this guy is right the oil industry has locked out such possibilities.

48 posted on 09/05/2006 10:49:25 AM PDT by Dumb_Ox (http://kevinjjones.blogspot.com)
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To: seasoned traditionalist

I think my #48 is a less conspiratorial interpretation of the Mexican oil supply, but it would have many of the same effects and the same interested parties.


49 posted on 09/05/2006 10:52:38 AM PDT by Dumb_Ox (http://kevinjjones.blogspot.com)
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To: Chuck Dent

"The author has been reading FR; it's been mentioned many times that the ultimate reason for Bush's open-border policy is the necessity of maintaining stability in Mexico.
And it's not just oil either, although that is a factor. More serious is the potential opportunity for players like China/Iran to take advantage of a civil war-torn Mexico in similar fashion as N Korea/Lebanon."

There have been many FR posts that China has been working overtime to become a big trading partner with Mexico. There have also been postings that China has been infiltrating Mexican borders to sell arms to revolutionaries.

China is not only going after Mexican oil it is going after Mexico, hoping to further destabilize them to our detriment.

And finally, it is well known that China is very active in promoting illegal CHINESE immigration into our borders.

Remember the Norinco attempts to import AK 47s for Black gangs?

Remember the attempt to take over the old US Navy base.port at Long Beach?

Remember Carter's virtual gift of the Panama Canal to China?

How about the Clinton treason on having Chinese infiltrate our top infrastructure, including the Los Alamos National Lab? And worse yet, selling nuclear and other sensitive information to China in return for campaign contributions?

We'd better start remembering and start taking commons sense, patriotic action.


50 posted on 09/05/2006 11:03:24 AM PDT by doxteve
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