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US Government to Authorize Nazi-Like Human Experiments
http://www.profamilylawcenter.com/ ^ | 9 6 06 | Richard D. Ackerman

Posted on 09/06/2006 11:00:27 PM PDT by freepatriot32

The FDA is presently considering guidelines that would allow scientists to conduct "emergency research" on patients without any informed consent. PFLC is launching a direct challenge to these proposed regulations which would allow Nazi-like experimentation on human beings.

Do you remember from history what the Nazi party and Joseph Mengele did to human subjects during WWII? These reprobates conducted dangerous medical experiments on innocent people without consent. Many people died as a result of the Nazis' human experiments and many others suffered a lifetime of post-experimental trauma and injury. This is not to mention the deprivation of basic human dignity that is occasioned by unconsented experimentation on human beings. Your government is proposing to do the same thing in 2006 !!!

The Pro-Family Law Center has just discovered that the United States Food & Drug Administration (FDA) is considering new rules that would allow scientists and doctors to conduct "emergency research" on unconscious or other incapacitated patients. This "emergency research" could be conducted without any informed consent from the patient or their designated representative. The proposed regulations known as "Guidance for Institutional Review Boards, Clinical Investigators, and Sponsors; Exception from Informed Consent for Emergency Research" are set for public hearing on October 30, 2006. Most American citizens have no idea that this hearing is to take place. Moreover, most wouldn't know what to do about it.

However, PFLC is simply not willing to put up with the idea that the U.S. government can order that any human being be experimented on without valid consent. Our lead counsel and PFLC president, Rich Ackerman, has fought for the privacy rights of patients, informed consent rights, and other pro-life causes for over a decade.

PFLC considers this newest battle to be one of the most important of our times. If a human being can be experimented on with absolutely no consent, we have lost all sense of human dignity. While our Nation long ago lost much of its respect for preborn children, we attempted to hold on to the principles of informed consent and human dignity for adults. These new regulations would chip away at the remaining respect that our Nation has for human life.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: authorize; experiments; fda; government; govwatch; human; josephmengele; libertarians; like; miningfortinfoil; mkultra; nazi; to; us
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1 posted on 09/06/2006 11:00:29 PM PDT by freepatriot32
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To: Abram; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; Allosaurs_r_us; Americanwolf; Americanwolfsbrother; Annie03; ...


pinging to both my lists tonight


2 posted on 09/06/2006 11:02:35 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: All

DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

Food and Drug Administration

[Docket No. 2006D-0331]


Draft Guidance for Institutional Review Boards, Clinical
Investigators, and Sponsors; Exception from Informed Consent
Requirements for Emergency Research

AGENCY: Food and Drug Administration, HHS.

ACTION: Notice.




SUMMARY: The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is announcing the
availability of a draft guidance entitled ``Guidance for Institutional
Review Boards, Clinical Investigators, and Sponsors; Exception from
Informed Consent Requirements for Emergency Research.'' This draft
guidance, when finalized, is intended to assist Institutional Review
Boards (IRBs), clinical investigators, and sponsors in the development
and conduct of emergency research.The draft guidance

[[Page 51199]]

also describes the additional specific human subject protection
requirements for emergency research. Elsewhere in this issue of the
Federal Register, FDA is announcing a public hearing on emergency
research conducted without informed consent under FDA regulations.

DATES: Submit written or electronic comments on the draft guidance by
October 30, 2006. General comments on agency guidance documents are
welcome at any time.

ADDRESSES: Submit written requests for single copies of the draft
guidance to the Office of Policy (HF-11), Office of the Commissioner,
Food and Drug Administration, 5600 Fishers Lane, Rockville, MD 20857.
Send one self-addressed adhesive label to assist that office in
processing your requests. Submit phone requests to 800-835-4709 or 301-
827-1800. Submit written comments on the draft guidance to the Division
of Dockets Management (HFA-305), Food and Drug Administration, 5630
Fishers Lane, rm. 1061, Rockville, MD 20852. Submit electronic comments
to
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/leaving.cgi?from=leavingFR.html&log=linklog&to=http://www.fda.gov/dockets/ecomments.
See the SUPPLEMENTARY

INFORMATION section for electronic access to the draft guidance
document.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Carolyn Hommel, Good Clinical Practice
Program (HF-34), Food and Drug Administration, 5600 Fishers Lane
Rockville, MD 20857, 301-827-3340.

SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION:

I. Background

FDA is announcing the availability of a draft guidance entitled
``Guidance for Institutional Review Boards, Clinical Investigators, and
Sponsors; Exception from Informed Consent Requirements for Emergency
Research.'' This draft guidance was developed to assist IRBs, clinical
investigators, and sponsors in the development and conduct of emergency
research, that is, research in emergency settings when an exception
from the informed consent requirements is requested under FDA's
emergency research regulation. Further, the draft guidance describes
the additional specific human subject protection requirements for
emergency research, such as community consultation and public
disclosure activities, the need for the concurrence of a licensed
physician, use of data monitoring committees, use of independent IRBs,
and the documentation of efforts to contact a subject's legally
authorized representative or family member regarding the subject's
participation in the study.
In addition to the draft guidance, FDA is holding a public hearing
on emergency research conducted without informed consent under FDA
regulations. The public hearing is designed to solicit the views of
individuals and groups affected by challenges encountered in the
conduct of emergency research in the absence of informed consent,
including patient advocacy groups, individuals who have participated in
clinical trials, IRB members, sponsors, clinical investigators, medical
societies, ethicists, and other interested parties. FDA will consider
comments and suggestions received at the hearing together with any
comments received on the draft guidance to determine whether the
current framework is adequate for the ethical conduct of emergency
research, or whether modifications would be appropriate.
Under the regulations in 21 CFR 50.24, and the conforming
amendments contained in 21 CFR parts 56, 312, 314, 601, 812, and 814,
an exception may be requested from the requirement to obtain informed
consent from each subject, or the subject's legally authorized
representative, prior to enrollment in a clinical investigation. The
narrow exception applies to emergency research for which, among other
things, the following conditions exist: (1) An investigational new drug
application (IND) or investigational device exemption application (IDE)
is required; (2) that involves human subjects who have a life-
threatening medical condition (for which available treatments are
unproven or unsatisfactory); (3) that involves subjects who because of
their medical condition (e.g., unconsciousness) cannot give informed
consent; and (4) where, to be effective, the intervention must be
administered before informed consent from the subjects' legally
authorized representative is feasible. Studies involving an exception
from the general requirement of informed consent may proceed only after
a sponsor has received prior written permission from FDA, and the IRB
has found and documented that specific conditions have been met.
This draft guidance is being issued consistent with FDA's good
guidance practices regulation (21 CFR 10.115). The draft guidance, when
finalized, will represent the agency's current thinking on the
exception from informed consent requirements for emergency research. It
does not create or confer any rights for or on any person and does not
operate to bind FDA or the public. An alternative approach may be used
if such approach satisfies the requirements of the applicable statutes
and regulations.

II. The Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995

This draft guidance refers to previously approved collections of
information found in FDA regulations. These collections of information
are subject to review by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB)
under the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995 (44 U.S.C. 3501-3520). The
collections of information in part 56 (21 CFR part 56) have been
approved under OMB control number 0910-0130, the collections of
information in part 312 (21 CFR part 312) have been approved under OMB
control number 0910-0014, and the collections of information in part
812 (21 CFR part 812) have been approved under OMB control number 0910-
0078. Modifications to these approved information collection
requirements are underway or will be made at the time that each
information collection is renewed. The agency believes that this is
appropriate because this guidance has only a minor impact on these
existing collections of information.

III. Comments

Interested persons may submit to the Division of Dockets Management
(see ADDRESSES) written or electronic comments regarding this document.
Submit a single copy of electronic comments or two paper copies of any
mailed comments, except that individuals may submit one paper copy.
Comments are to be identified with the docket number found in brackets
in the heading of this document. Received comments may be seen in the
Division of Dockets Management between 9 a.m. and 4 p.m., Monday
through Friday.

IV. Electronic Access

Persons with access to the Internet may obtain the document at
either
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/leaving.cgi?from=leavingFR.html&log=linklog&to=http://www.fda.gov/cder/guidance/index.htm
or
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/leaving.cgi?from=leavingFR.html&log=linklog&to=http://www
.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/default.htm.

Dated: August 21, 2006.
Jeffrey Shuren,
Assistant Commissioner for Policy.
[FR Doc. E6-14262 Filed 8-25-06; 8:45 am]

BILLING CODE 4160-01-S


3 posted on 09/06/2006 11:05:21 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: freepatriot32

If it sounds either too good or too bad to be true it probably isn't.


4 posted on 09/06/2006 11:05:43 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (This space for rent.)
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To: freepatriot32

This post needs Theremin music.


5 posted on 09/06/2006 11:05:59 PM PDT by Capn TrVth
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To: freepatriot32

Gee, I wonder what political party this author supports....

He shouldn't worry. there is no mention of a lamp shade factory being built behind the research facility that will make lamp shades from the skin of these medical reseach center prisoners. They don't have a ward filled with twins do they??


6 posted on 09/06/2006 11:10:19 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: freepatriot32
Have you really read the guidance?

The text above gives the impression that this is something new. But a google search for Exception from Informed Consent for Emergency Research gives about 2,530,000 hits.

These are old guidelines that will be updated.

here are the guidance http://www.fda.gov/OHRMS/DOCKETS/98fr/06d-0331-gdl0001.pdf

and the notice http://www.fda.gov/OHRMS/DOCKETS/98fr/E6-14262.htm
7 posted on 09/06/2006 11:12:56 PM PDT by AdmSmith
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To: freepatriot32

Skeptically, is this real?


8 posted on 09/06/2006 11:14:28 PM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( Microevolution is real; Macroevolution is not real.)
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To: Mike Darancette
To me it reads that if, as a last ditch effort to save a life, experimental treatments may be used without going through the usual process, which would take to long and result in the persons death anyways.

I don't see any "Joseph Mengele" intent here. The wording and guidelines haven't even been discussed, tabled, finalized yet, so how can anyone read "Joseph Mengele" intent into this?
9 posted on 09/06/2006 11:18:35 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: AdmSmith

Since the policy is not new, has it been done to patients already without consent?


10 posted on 09/06/2006 11:19:00 PM PDT by weegee (Remember "Remember the Maine"? Well in the current war "Remember the Baby Milk Factory")
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To: AdmSmith

Here's another:

http://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/humansubjects/guidance/hsdc97-01.htm

"On October 2, 1996 (Federal Register, Vol. 61, pp. 51531-51533), the Secretary, HHS, announced, under Section 46.101(i), a waiver of the applicability of the 45 CFR Part 46 requirement for obtaining and documenting informed consent for a strictly limited class of research, involving research activities that may be carried out in human subjects who are in need of emergency therapy and for whom, because of the subjects' medical condition and the unavailability of legally authorized representatives of the subjects, no legally effective informed consent can be obtained. This waiver, which provides a third route through which IRBs may approve research in this class, takes effect November 1, 1996.


This waiver applies to the Basic HHS Policy for Protection of Human Research Subjects (Subpart A of 45 CFR Part 46) and to research involving children (Subpart D of 45 CFR Part 46). However, because of special regulatory limitations relating to research involving fetuses, pregnant women, and human in vitro fertilization (Subpart B of 45 CFR 46), and research involving prisoners (Subpart C of 45 CFR Part 46), this waiver is inapplicable to these categories of research."

(Regulatory limitations now a thing of the past?)


11 posted on 09/06/2006 11:20:05 PM PDT by endthematrix (None dare call it ISLAMOFACISM!)
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To: Mike Darancette

I was wmbarassed at how many people at FR bought the "test pesticides on retarded kids" crap a couple of years ago.


12 posted on 09/06/2006 11:25:48 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (NewsMax gives aid and comfort to the enemy-- http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1642052/posts)
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To: AdmSmith
Exactly. This is just an proposal to open debate and establish, introduce or update guidelines for the use of experimental treatments in a emergency situation where a patient is on the verge of death and no other option (except to let the patient die) is available.

I'd be more worried about what changes are made to the existing guidelines and are being voted on.
13 posted on 09/06/2006 11:26:10 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: AdmSmith

If I'm reading this correctly, it says (summarized) "If you're unconscious or delerious AND at death's door AND no standard treatment exists that will save you, we don't need the consent of you or your guardian to try an experimental treatment on you if there's not time get that consent without you dying."

How did I do?


14 posted on 09/06/2006 11:26:32 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows ("I've never seen so many testicles in my life.")
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To: freepatriot32
This is the important part and I don't see anything that warrants likening it to Nazi experiments. Total overreaction.


[FDA will consider comments and suggestions received at the hearing together with any comments received on the draft guidance to determine whether the current framework is adequate for the ethical conduct of emergency research, or whether modifications would be appropriate.Under the regulations in 21 CFR 50.24, and the conforming amendments contained in 21 CFR parts 56, 312, 314, 601, 812,and 814,an exception may be requested from the requirement to obtain informedconsent from each subject, or the subject's legally authorizedrepresentative, prior to enrollment in a clinical investigation. The narrow exception applies to emergency research for which, among other things, the following conditions exist: (1) An investigational new drug application (IND) or investigational device exemption application (IDE) is required; (2) that involves human subjects who have a life- threatening medical condition (for which available treatments are unproven or unsatisfactory); (3) that involves subjects who because of their medical condition (e.g., unconsciousness) cannot give informed consent; and (4) where, to be effective, the intervention must be administered before informed consent from the subjects' legally authorized representative is feasible. Studies involving an exception from the general requirement of informed consent may proceed only after a sponsor has received prior written permission from FDA, and the IRB has found and documented that specific conditions have been met.]
15 posted on 09/06/2006 11:27:03 PM PDT by spinestein (Please do not make illegal copies of this tagline.)
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To: Nathan Zachary

Exactly - all this says is that if you're carried in unconscious and dying, normal treatments wouldn't work, and the only option that could possibly save you from death is experimental, they don't have to wait to get consent. And this is *only* in cases where the *only* alternative to the experimental technique or gear is **death**. So basically, you, the patient, have nothing to lose (because you're going to die otherwise, because conventional treatments won't help) and everything to gain (you may have to have AA batteries on you the rest of your life, but hey, you're still alive.)

As for actual examples of this technique saving people, here you go. It takes place in Israel, where such guidelines are already in place; check out the bottom sidebar: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18925435.800-saved-by-sand-poured-into-the-wounds.html


16 posted on 09/06/2006 11:29:03 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Slings and Arrows

bullseye.


17 posted on 09/06/2006 11:29:59 PM PDT by spinestein (Please do not make illegal copies of this tagline.)
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To: Slings and Arrows

You did good. that's how I see it.


18 posted on 09/06/2006 11:30:33 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: weegee

I'm sure it has, long before the FDA came about. Here's an example; penicillin was originally used in the civilian sector on people dying from bacteriologial infections for which there was no treatment. Most of those patients were unconscious or delirious.


19 posted on 09/06/2006 11:36:16 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Nathan Zachary; spinestein

Thanks - nice to see that fancy book larnin' paying off. ;^)


20 posted on 09/06/2006 11:42:52 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows ("I've never seen so many testicles in my life.")
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To: Nathan Zachary
It's a lot to wade thru but that's what it looks like to me too. ER experimental medication for someone not responding, unconscious and no time to track down next of kin.
21 posted on 09/06/2006 11:46:23 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: freepatriot32

This is disturbing. But it really did not need the hysterical Nazi rhetoric. I am getting tired of those sorts of comparisons which are rarely justified. It tends to give an otherwise interesting article something of the air of an hysterical rant. A lot of times I hit the word Nazi (or Communist) used as an adjective in a story and I just stop reading and move onto something else.


22 posted on 09/06/2006 11:50:27 PM PDT by Calvin Coollidge (The last really great president.)
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To: Calvin Coollidge

How is it disturbing? All it says is that if all else fails, you're dying, and something needs to be done *now*, doctors can use experimental techniques or gear on you to try to save your life. I find it comforting that if a friend or family member, or even myself is severely injured in a car accident, brought in unconscious and dying, and the doctor has an experimental drug that can save their life, he can in good conscience and without fear of malpractice suit adminster it. If you are dying already, and nothing else can save you, trying something, anything to save your life is worth it, IMHO. It's not like you have anything to lose at that point, and it's not like your situation is going to get *worse*.

How many times have we heard about people dying from accidents, only to later find out that there was some experimental treatment that they could have been given to save them *IN THAT SAME HOSPITAL*, but couldn't, because of consent laws and the fear of lawsuits? I can recall at least four incidents, personally.


23 posted on 09/06/2006 11:57:20 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

You make good points. But there are people who may not want that sort of thing done for a variety of reasons. In some cases religious objections exist to certain forms of medical treatment. Also in some cases there could be side effects which might prove worse than death. Its a tough call. But I think consent needs to be gotten before going into experimental methods to save someone's life. Those who are share your concerns should carry some kind of card in their wallet that says you authorize any and all measures which might prolong your life.


24 posted on 09/07/2006 12:02:43 AM PDT by Calvin Coollidge (The last really great president.)
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To: Spktyr

Thanks for the info linked in your # 16.

There's also the synthetic blood that's been tested in limited areas. I don't recall the name of the blood replacement or the manufacturer, but I read about it here on FR, and the debate between FReepers went much as this thread is tending.

The issue with this experimental synthetic blood is that it is able to deliver oxygen through the bloodstream, whereas the fluid administered by EMTs before you reach the hospital can only replace volume of blood lost (preventing cardiac arrest) but the brain and other organs are still depleted of oxygen until blood typing/administration can take place.

That's this layman's understanding. YMMV


25 posted on 09/07/2006 12:07:47 AM PDT by Titan Magroyne (Suicide Bomb Instructor: "Now pay attention, I'm only gonna do this once...")
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To: Calvin Coollidge

So, if you (or your significant other or loved one) were brought in on 9/11/01 as one of the WTC survivors, with burns so severe that your clothing was gone and you'd passed out from the pain and shock, your identity was unknown, and you were dying, you'd want the doctors to stand around and wait for you to be identified and for your next of kin or guardian to give permission before they stuffed you in a hyperbaric chamber to try to save your life. Or would you want them to stuff you in the chamber first to try to save your life and ask stupid questions later? I very much think the latter is the case here.

Hyperbaric chambers as immediate treatment for burns were an "investigative medical device" on 9/11/01. And no, it's not like an iron lung - after the treatment time was up, you are removed from the chamber.


26 posted on 09/07/2006 12:07:48 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Titan Magroyne

That's pretty much the case for the currently used fluid in the field, yes, with the added proviso that it also can contain carbohydrates and other ingredients to try to ward off shock. It does not carry oxygen at all, and that's proven fatal every day in America - again, it's used because doing nothing will result in death, while this gives one a fighting chance.

The synthetic blood can carry oxygen and replace volume.


27 posted on 09/07/2006 12:14:24 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

Thanks for the additional info on current fluid replacement. Still trying to locate the thread I mentioned previously...


28 posted on 09/07/2006 12:19:32 AM PDT by Titan Magroyne (Suicide Bomb Instructor: "Now pay attention, I'm only gonna do this once...")
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To: Titan Magroyne

FYI, the current "fluid replacement" used by EMS is either saline or D5W (or one of its decendants). D5W is a 5% dextrose in saline solution.


29 posted on 09/07/2006 12:21:26 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

I could give hypothetical scenarios to the contrary point of view but I won't. Its really pointless. As I said this is a tough call. I acknowledge your point of view and your arguments hold water. But IMO no one should be subjected to experimental medical practices w/o some form of consent.

On a side note I know something about burns. And if a loved one of mine were brought in on 9/11 with the injuries you are describing which I am presuming mean 3rd degree burns over most of the body, as painful as it would be for me... I hope I would have the courage to let them go. I know someone who was burned very badly in a fire but not as badly as you are describing. His life has been hell on earth since then.


30 posted on 09/07/2006 12:24:09 AM PDT by Calvin Coollidge (The last really great president.)
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To: neverdem

ping


31 posted on 09/07/2006 12:25:55 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: Spktyr
I haven't read all the particulars on what type of authorized treatment can be given, but does an experiment have to used specifically for the patient's welfare? Can an experiment be used for general medical study?

Family to Dr: "Did you everything possible to save their life?

Dr's reply: "They were going to die anyway, so we implanted electrodes in his brain and upped the amps to abnormally high levels, unrelated to their condition, to test a product in trials."
32 posted on 09/07/2006 12:27:09 AM PDT by endthematrix (None dare call it ISLAMOFACISM!)
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To: Calvin Coollidge

Except that there are now many treatments (some experimental) that if performed within 24 hours of the burn occurring can actually regenerate the tissue and prevent the burn patient's life from becoming hell on earth. Seems that the hyperbaric chamber (to take one example) is highly effective in helping the body heal, even in the case of 3rd degree burns - but the patient must be installed in one as soon as possible and no later than 24 hours.

Believe it or not, the hyperbaric chamber has saved many lives, and those that recieve the treatment have minimal scarring, near miraculous recovery times, and usually go back to normal lives, thanks to the "oxy box."

"Letting someone go" through ignorance of the state of medical technology is stupid.


33 posted on 09/07/2006 12:31:16 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: endthematrix

Negative - per the protocols above, the experiment has to be used in an attempt to save the dying patient's life, and can only be used for that purpose. So, no, this scenario would not be "legal" under the codes listed above. Life-saving only, not general research.


34 posted on 09/07/2006 12:32:58 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

Thanks.


35 posted on 09/07/2006 12:34:01 AM PDT by endthematrix (None dare call it ISLAMOFACISM!)
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To: Calvin Coollidge

By the way, people used to say the exact same thing about people who stepped on rusty nails vice penicillin. We think that that would be stupid today, but the same argument is still alive, as you've just proven.

You might want to think about that.


36 posted on 09/07/2006 12:34:50 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr; Titan Magroyne; raybbr
The synthetic blood can carry oxygen and replace volume.

An Experiment in Saving Lives

Somehow I remembered Polyheme.

37 posted on 09/07/2006 12:39:00 AM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: Spktyr

I think you are taking a rather narrow view of this. You are acting like there is no danger involved in experimental treatments. What about all the crazy drugs that have been discovered to have horrible side effects? You are also ignoring the rights of people who may have religious objections to not be subjected to this kind of thing. I repeat you have points that are valid. But there is more than one side to this.


38 posted on 09/07/2006 12:42:45 AM PDT by Calvin Coollidge (The last really great president.)
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To: neverdem

Thank you, I was going nuts trying to find that thread!


39 posted on 09/07/2006 12:47:03 AM PDT by Titan Magroyne (Suicide Bomb Instructor: "Now pay attention, I'm only gonna do this once...")
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To: neverdem

Controversial blood trial continues (PolyHeme)
May 2006

http://www.the-scientist.com/news/display/23397/


40 posted on 09/07/2006 12:47:23 AM PDT by endthematrix (None dare call it ISLAMOFACISM!)
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To: Calvin Coollidge

If you are going to die without it, what difference does it make what the side effects may be? They have to be preferable to sure and certain death; God may help you, but He does not appear to want to help fools that will not avail themselves of all that He has made available to human medicine.

I take the view that life is preferable to death and that medical technology is advancing at such a rate that a "crippling illness" of today may be a "mild inconvenience" or even less tomorrow.

When you're unconsious or delirious, you are unable to state your consent or withold it. On the principle of "get them stable first and find out what they want to do when they're able to state their wishes," this preserves as many options as possible.

This regulation does NOT apply, by the way, to people wearing the *metal* DNR or NHM bracelets. They won't usually make it to the ER. Those with religious objections can purchase one of those, and die with their convictions intact.


41 posted on 09/07/2006 12:51:35 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr
....done however, without the patient, spouse, or immediate family approval!!!

....This is an abomination!!!

42 posted on 09/07/2006 1:29:32 AM PDT by Robert Drobot (Da mihi virtutem contra hostes tuos.)
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To: Robert Drobot

Oh, so you would prefer to let people who cannot state their preference, and whose next-of-kin cannot be reached, DIE? You're willing to just let people DIE because we should wait hours or days for someone to call them back???

That's the *true* abomination - as much of one as a full term abortion is.


43 posted on 09/07/2006 1:54:26 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: freepatriot32
Now we know where DU gets it's membership from. They aren't born DUhmmies. They're made the by the government!
44 posted on 09/07/2006 2:54:29 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: freepatriot32

BTTT


45 posted on 09/07/2006 3:01:23 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: Slings and Arrows

I don't have a problem with that. What is the main abuse factor. I mean, whats the down side?


46 posted on 09/07/2006 3:39:55 AM PDT by WorkerbeeCitizen (Religion of peace my arss - We need a maintenance Crusade)
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To: freepatriot32

Why is it that I do not believe this?


47 posted on 09/07/2006 4:11:16 AM PDT by joe fonebone (Israel, taking out the world's trash since 1948.)
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To: freepatriot32

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!


48 posted on 09/07/2006 4:34:51 AM PDT by beckysueb (KOmmies are really nothing but DUmmies with better PR.)
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To: Spktyr
"...the *true* abomination - as much of one as a full term abortion..."

Funny that you bring up abortion . . . the ones who perform them are the same people you say should make these "experimental" life-and-death decisions w/out a family member's input.

No thanks!

49 posted on 09/07/2006 4:37:17 AM PDT by DesertSapper (I love God, family, country . . . and dead Islamofacists!!!)
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To: DesertSapper

ER doctors are *highly* unlikely to ever perform an abortion, but if you want to lump all docs together, hey, I bet you never go to the doctor for anything, right?

They can only do this IF you're already dying and IF nothing else is working or can work. At that point, you have NOTHING left to lose.


50 posted on 09/07/2006 4:39:29 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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