Posted on 09/08/2006 6:27:00 PM PDT by Lydo
Your lot runs from the surveyor stakes (monuments made of metal rods or stones with a drill hole, but not always present) at the front corners of your lot and ends at the stakes at the back corner. There are maps that show monuments in roads, usually at intersections and turns. Around here, they are under a sqaure box with a big M on top. Surveyors start their measurements from these monuments. The maps show the extent of the right of way and where and how large each lot is. For a 50 foot right of way, you would measure 25 feet from the center line of the road. It usually ends just behind your front sidewalk if present. You don't have to pay taxes on that right of way.
You dumb sh*ts deserve the frustration.
MOST PEOPLE HAVE MUCH BROADER PROPERTY RIGHTS ON THEIR LAWNS THAN THEY KNOW ABOUT IT!!!!
THE LAW IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK REGARDING PROPERTY RIGHTS IN AREAS DESIGNATED AS A RIGHT OF WAY WAS DECIDED BY THE NEW YORK COURT OF APPEALS 145 YEARS AGO AND IT IS STILL GOOD LAW TODAY. IN BISSELL V. NEW YORK CENTRAL RAILROAD, THE COURT OF APPEALS STATED, QUITE EMPHATICALLY, THAT THE OWNER OF A LOT ABUTTING A PUBLIC STREET OWNS THE FEE TITLE TO THE CENTER OF THE STREET. THE PROPERTY RIGHT KNOWN AS A RIGHT OF WAY (I.E. THE "RIGHT TO TREAD ON ANOTHER MAN'S GROUND") WHICH IS OWNED BY THE MUNICIPALITY IS A MERE EASEMENT FOR A PUBLIC ROAD. AS THE OWNER OF THE FEE TITLE, THE ABUTTING PROPERTY OWNER IS THE OWNER OF THE TREES AND SHRUBBERY, ETC. IN THE RIGHT OF WAY AREA. THE MUNICIPALITY HAS NO RIGHT TO INTERFERE WITH A HOMEOWNERS DECISION TO CUT DOWN TREES ON THEIR OWN LAWN UNLESS THERE ARE SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES. EG, THE TREE IS "HISTORIC" OR A PROTECTED SPECIES. WE HEARD AN INCREDIBLE COMMENT FROM A SURVEYOR HIRED TO ASSIST IN THE DEFENSE OF THE CASE THAT BEGAN THIS DONNYBROOK: "THERE ARE 22 MUNICIPALITES IN WESTCHESTER COUNTY AND THEY ALL THINK THEY OWN THEIR OWN ROADS - BUT NONE OF THEM DO! IF YOU TALK TO ANYONE WHO WORKS AT A TOWN HALL OR VILLAGE HALL IN WESTCHESTER, THEY ALL TALK AS IF THEY OWN THE ROADS. I'VE EVEN SEEN MUNICIPALITES SELL ROADS THAT THEY DIDN'T OWN AND NOBODY SEEMED TO NOTICE." BUT WE NOTICED.
FROM THE INFORMATION ON THE SCARSDALE BOARD OF TRUSTEES WEBSITE, IT LOOKS SUSPICIOUSLY LIKE THE VILLAGE OF SCARSDALE HAS BEEN BUSILY SELLING ROADS THEY DON'T OWN. BUT CONSIDERING THE SUPREME COURT'S ATTITUDE ON EMINENT DOMAIN THESE DAYS, A GOVERNMENTAL LAND GRAB OF PRIVATE PROPERTY IS ACCEPTABLE IF THE GOVERNMENT CAN MAKE A LOT OF MONEY DOING IT. IT CERTAINLY IS THE NORM IN THE REPUBLIC OF SCARSDALE!
In Vermont, where we live now, right of way is currently measured in feet, but was originally measured in rods. You had three-rod roads and five-rod roads.
In our current case, the town controls from the center of the road 25 feet on each side, which is about 10 feet into the grass.
We have ornamental trees and flowers that encroach on that area here and there, which is fine as long as they don't obstruct the view. But our picket fence has to be 25 feet from the road center, and we need permission to change anything substantially in that area. But the Town Clerk is a reasonable person, willing to honor any reasonable request.
And, yes, the Scarsdale politician is wrong if he thinks you can't cut any parts of trees that hang over your property. And he's stupid if he won't allow residents to reasonably prune trees and remove dead branches, because that saves the town maintenance crews time and money.
If a tree gets rotten and threatens to fall on your house from town property, then you get into a debate with the town, and hope they will be rational. In our town they would be rational. In Scarsdale, you might have to write the local paper and threaten to sue them. Incidentally, we once lived in Scarsdale.
A rod is one-quarter of a Gunter's Chain, which is 66' long. A rod is 16.50 feet. Your Right-of-way has always been measured in feet. I live in PA where the old roads were two-rod roads--33' wide.
I can understand the concept of a three-rod road because it would be 49.50 feet wide, very close to today's 50' Right-of-way found in most county and township roads. A five-rod road, however, is hard to wrap my mind around, because it would entail an 82.50' wide Right-of-way for roads built in the 19th century.
In our current case, the town controls from the center of the road 25 feet on each side, which is about 10 feet into the grass.
You own what your Deed of Title says you own, unless the deed is faulty. You should also have some sort of markers for the front of your property. They may be driven pipes, pins (rebar or iron rods), axle shafts, iron shafts with a bolt, concrete monuments, nails in pavement or drill holes in the sidewalk--just to name a few. The bottom line is you own what your Deed says you own--NOT 25 feet from the center line of the pavement some contractor haphazardly lays down. Think about it--can these people overwrite your Deed with a sloppy job? The answer is NO.
BTW--who defines the center of the road? The guy who drives the striping truck?
We have ornamental trees and flowers that encroach on that area here and there, which is fine as long as they don't obstruct the view. But our picket fence has to be 25 feet from the road center, and we need permission to change anything substantially in that area. But the Town Clerk is a reasonable person, willing to honor any reasonable request.
Normally you can plant anything or make any improvements (as long as they don't interfere with motorists' sightlines) between the front of your property and the back edge of the sidewalk/curb/road shoulder. On the flip side, the State/County/Township can rip them out at any time without any reason. When it comes to fencing, unless you have a state or local ordinance specifically stating "25 feet from the center of the road" you can erect one up to your property line.
The go-to guy whenever you have any kind of property problems is a local Surveyor. He/she will be familiar with the applicable laws and usually be able to read the riot act to clueless clerks, zoning and planning commission idiots. If that doesn't work you may have to hire a lawyer. If so, hire one that your Surveyor approves of because he/she knows property law.
Dear Tinian:
The municipality can only impose restrictions on the right of way that have to do with the safety of the road. The municipality has no right to remove any vegetation without the permission of the abutting property owner unless it is a potential safety problem related to the use of the road. The abutting property owns the roadbed as a presumption in the law and therefore, owns the vegetation. If you believe otherwise, you're wrong on the law but you'd fit right in at Scarsdale Village Hall.
You are correct in stating that a property owner is presumed to own to the center line of Right-of-way. If a Right-of-way is vacated the abutting property owner will gain title to the center of the Right-of-way.
Unless the Right-of-way is vacated, however, the municipality owns it and may remove vegetation from it for a myriad of reasons, e.g.--sightline problems, the installation and maintenance of utilities, the installation and maintenance of signage, the installation and maintenance of drainage works, the installation and maintenance of bus stops, etc.--just to name a few.
You can go wacky libertarian all you want on the issue but the bottom line is if you plant something on public property you can't claim ownership of it.
Can I plant a tree on YOUR property and prevent you from cutting it down by claiming I planted it?
All statutory restrictions of the use of property are imposed upon the theory that they are necessary for the safety, health, or comfort of the public, but a limitation without reason or necessity cannot be enforced.'
....it is necessity alone which justifies the exercise of the police power to take private property without compensation.'
Probably you're right about the fence. But it's live and let live, so we put up the fence where the old one had been.
Yes, we have rebar stakes driven in at all points on the property line, and they are back a ways from the road, but not as far back as the fence line. I've walked the bounds and taped the trees along the boundary lines. It's our property, but the town can, and does, dig drainage ditches and repair culverts. It's in everyone's interest to have proper drainage. Our neighborhood has resisted a state proposal to straighten the road and hardtop it, because then passing cars would start really whizzing by. As it is now, they would slide off into a ditch if they tried to speed by our house.
We're on a dirt road, so the center is somewhat problematic, but again you can pretty much see where things have been, historically.
I may have gotten the 5 rod business wrong. Maybe 6 rod? This was from a neighbor with historical interests. But current regulations translate the old rods into feet.
"Safety, health, or comfort of the public."
Just so. Those are the traditional standards, according to a lawyer friend of ours who works for the National Association of Realtors. Public statutes are not supposed to exceed them. I believe these parameters go back to basic common law principles.
Fixed it, Scarsdale is not the same village, I once lived in.
....it is necessity alone which justifies the exercise of the police power to take private property without compensation.'
If your deed doesn't say you own to the center of the road, you don't own to the center of the road.
Is that simple enough for you to understand?
Tinian:
Evidently you've never read the law. A right of way is actually a "right to tread on another man's ground"; therefore, by definition, it is not a fee title. If you claim you own a right of way on a piece of land, you are admitting that you do not have title to the property but that you merely have the right to use the land for a specific purpose. In the case of a right of way for a public road, the municipality can only use the land for a public road. If the municipality tries to convert the property to another use, they would be in violation of the terms of the conveyance and the road would revert to the fee title owner as a matter of law. Thus, the fee owner will never be deprived of access to their property. According to New York's highest court, the abutting property owner owns the fee title to the center of the street as a presumption in the law if they purchase a lot that references a map that shows that their lot abouts a street shown on that map. In an ordinary suburban subdivision in New York, that means everyone!
I hope that clears things up for you.
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