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Posted on 09/09/2006 3:33:16 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger
A Thornton man shot an intruder who tried to break into his home early Friday morning as he was on the phone with 9-1-1 waiting for sheriff’s deputies to arrive.
Vincent Llanas called the Milam County Sheriff’s Office at 12:32 a.m. Friday, saying a man was trying to open the door to his home on County Road 433, according to a statement from the department.
While Llanas spoke with the dispatcher, the suspected intruder, Joel Warren Simank, 30, of Thornton, broke a window and tried to unlock the front door, according to the statement. Llanas grabbed a .12-gauge shotgun and shot at the door.
Debris from the blast hit Simank in the face and chest, according to the statement. Simank fled the scene in his vehicle, according to the statement.
Simank was later stopped and taken to Johns Community Hospital in Taylor, where he was treated and released to a sheriff’s deputy, according to the statement.
He remained in the Milam County Jail Friday night, charged with burglary of a habitation with intent to commit a felony, according to the statement. Simank’s bail was set at $10,000.
No charges had been filed against Llanas, according to the statement, and the case “will be forwarded to the District Attorney (Kerry Spears) for review.”
I didn't give much thought to these kinds of stories until I read one where the "intruder" was just a drunk who was breaking in to what he thought was his own house. In his inebriated state he thought his key was defective. Now, unless I was relatively sure it's a bad guy, I'd probably try to miss with my first shot.
And you may never get a second shot.
If you feel that way, simply obtain and load a less-lethal round for your first shot. Rock salt works well.
Sorry, anyone who tries to enter my home at 3am is DEAD. I don't care if they're a paraplegic.
I actually have rubberized shotgun rounds, not out of concern for the perp, but because I don't want it going through the wall and killing my neighbors. At 10 feet or less, though, they're about as lethal as normal shotgun pellets, or so the manufacturer says.
If you're going to miss with your first shot on purpose and you're relying totally on the manufacturer's claims on your ammo, you should not be discharging your firearm. Sounds like you would be better off installing really strong locks, an alarm system and calling 911 if anything happens.
> If you feel that way, simply obtain and load a less-lethal round for your first shot. Rock salt works well.
A well-trained German Shepherd or two is better than any firearm for home defense: they are a multi-purpose device comprising a comfy hot-water bottle, an effective intruder alarm, and if need be, a non-lethal but decisive weapon. And an ongoing perpetrator deterrent: the mere sound of a throaty growl thereafter will make the perp evacuate himself and have nightmares for the rest of his misbegotten life.
With the added advantages that they are safe around kids, will not put a hole in your wall, and they'll clean up the mess afterwards.
Why would shooting a drunk intruder be worse than a sober intruder?
The drunk/wrong house thing is both a lie by the criminal and spin by the wusses in the media too.
I didn't know homeowners were shooting "everyone in sight." Seems to me that a person should have the right to defend themselves and their homes.
I hope you wrote your post as sarcasm, and forgot to mark it as such.
--And by the way, I would have blown him away if it were my house he was breaking into.
Maybe this "cycle of violence" as you call it, will stop when the bad guys stop threatening the good guys.
In which case you would be guilty of negligently discharging a firearm, reckless endangerment, and if you injured or killed someone, far more serious criminal charges.
L
L
Hey, not so dumb!!!! Actually very knowledgeable and wise!
After a defensive reaction with a 12 gauge?
The defender must not have had his glasses on.
> Trained dogs are not 'non-lethal' weapons.
The best ones are. Any clown can train a dog to be lethal. It takes skill and control to train a dog not to do what it will already quite happily do by instinct.
I'd probably try to miss with my first shot.
Why should that decision have to be made at all in one's own
home?
My guy says "don't draw it if you're not going to shoot" and he says "if you shoot, go for center mass"
Firing rounds with an intent to 'miss' is an irresponsible act which will launch a potentially lethal projectile God knows where.
The person pulling the trigger is legally, morally, and ethically responsible for every round coming out of the tube.
L
It's a personal choice, not one forced on me. Others are free to do as they want.
The PD arrived on the scene and one of the animals attacked a police officer.
The owner of the animals was charged with Felony Assault on a Police Officer with a Deadly Weapon.
If you turn your dog lose on someone and its deemed unjustified you will be charged with ADW and you'll be invited to explain to the Prosecutor, Judge, and the Jury why your well trained animal should not be legally considered a lethal weapon.
The far most likely scenario is that you'll spend an obscene amount of money defending yourself and be convicted anyway.
L
A well-trained German Shepherd or two is better than any firearm for home defense:
Why put your dogs in danger when you don't have to. An intruder breaking a window to get into my house at 3am while i'm there is going to be met with maximum force available. It might be best to pull him inside after shooting him as some state laws can be hazy and needlessly complex as to what circumstances justify a shooting.
Just pull em inside to be safe.
> If you turn your dog lose on someone and its deemed unjustified you will be charged with ADW and you'll be invited to explain to the Prosecutor, Judge, and the Jury why your well trained animal should not be legally considered a lethal weapon.
There is not a jury in New Zealand who would convict anybody whose well-trained dog defended his/her owner with non-lethal force from an intruder into his/her home at night. Not even one. Particularly if the intruder were armed.
The Crimes Act 1961 is quite plain about our right to "use force" in self-defense: it is the minimum amount of force necessary to bring the situation under control.
That is easily accomplished with a trained dog. Much harder to achieve with a firearm.
There is not a Police officer who would care to lay charges under these circumstances.
More likely, the scroat would be arrested, frog-marched out to the squad car, and charged with breaking and entering, home invasion, and possibly aggrivated assault. After receiving first aid for puncture wounds.
If they are trying to get in my house at 0300 that means they have killed the dog, and disabled my alarm system. That means they are the bad guys. The last thing in life they will see is a laser dot in the middle of their chest, with their heart as the target. Tap three times, call 911, call my lawyer and shut up. Tell the police you will be happy to cooperate with them after you speak with your lawyer, and that you were in fear for your life.
Trained dogs are expensive. A good firearm is relatively cheap, doesn't need regular feedings (well mine do), there are no trips to the vet, and properly used there won't be any dispute as to whose story to believe because the officer will only be getting one.
You're fortunate to be able to afford such a high priced home defense system. Most folks can't.
L
> Trained dogs are expensive
Nah. They cost about as much to purchase, as a pup, as a good pistol. And they cost about as much to feed each month as you should be spending on ammo at the range. The main investment is time, and you should spend about as much time with your dog as you should at the range if you wish to be proficient with a firearm.
> You're fortunate to be able to afford such a high priced home defense system. Most folks can't.
Most folk should not own firearms: that is not to say that they do not have the right to: in America you have a God-Given Constitutional Right to. But just because one *can* do something doesn't mean that they *should*. And most folk lack the proficiency necessary to meet an armed intruder in their home at night, safely, with their firearm.
A good dog is a much safer option.
Never tamper with a crime scene. Any investigator worth his salt will recognize it in under a minute and it is a crime in and of itself while making you look guilty of a bad shoot.
The first layers are strong doors with good solid locks. Same with the windows.
Then we've got a good monitored alarm system with glass break, door sensors, and carpet pads.
After that comes the four legged audible alarms. They're both 'alert' dogs.
After that comes the lethal stuff. Mossberg shotguns and large caliber pistols are our choice.
Trained dogs must be a good deal less expensive in NZ than they are in the States. A decent Sheperd pup will set you back well over a thousand dollars US before one even starts a training program. That's another couple of thousand minimum according to my research.
Compare that to the cost of a decent used .357 magnum at around $500.00 or so. A brand new Mossberg will run a bit less than that.
My gun club costs me about $350 a year and the whole family can go for that.
I'm not deriding your choice of dogs. They work for you and that's great. But dogs can be shot. They can be poisoned. Then you've got nothing between you and the bad guys.
Anyway here's hoping neither you nor I ever need to test the effectiveness of either or our systems.
Best of luck. Nice chatting with you.
L
> Then you've got nothing between you and the bad guys.
...except of course the nunchukas and a good left hook that comes screaming out of nowhere and shatters bones and teeth. If that ever happened, the conflict with the bad guys will have become *personal*.
Nice chatting with you too.
*DieHard*
Thank you for your kind words.
Well, my aunt lives in Texas, and I thought when I saw the headline, "Well, guess that was Aunt Mildred."
Both are great programs.
Lurker Jr. is a Tae Kwon Do enthusiast. He broke his first board last week and shows it to all his friends, the neighbors, his grandparents, and now wants it in a place of honor in his room.
Your corner of the world sounds very pleasant. Perhaps we'll visit someday.
Once again, best of luck.
L
> Lurker Jr. is a Tae Kwon Do enthusiast. He broke his first board last week and shows it to all his friends, the neighbors, his grandparents, and now wants it in a place of honor in his room.
Goodon'im! Well done! If every child in America could break boards like you son can, and had the dedication and opportunity to study the martial arts, child molesters would become an extinct species in a couple of weeks and crime in America would drop to about zero within a generation.
> Your corner of the world sounds very pleasant. Perhaps we'll visit someday.
If you do, look me up for a cuppa coffee. Meanwhile, stay safe!
*DieHard*
Periodically, you read cases about "trained" guard dogs mauling someone (not an intruder). Maybe the dogs weren't trained to the umpteenth level, but then again, not many people have $40,000 to spend on a pre-trained guard dog from some elite kennel in Germany, and most people do not have the discipline or time to train one themselves.
> Periodically, you read cases about "trained" guard dogs mauling someone (not an intruder).
More frequently you hear about accidental-discharge-of-firearms injuring innocent parties.
> Maybe the dogs weren't trained to the umpteenth level, but then again, not many people have $40,000 to spend on a pre-trained guard dog from some elite kennel in Germany
A membership at Kennel Club costs about $100 per year. Go once per week and learn from experts.
> and most people do not have the discipline or time to train one themselves.
On that basis, fewer still have the discipline or time to safely use firearms, even under non-stressful situations. I'd trust a dog long before I'd trust a loaded pistol: and I've owned and trained with both.
*DieHard*
We're just doing what we can with what we have so to speak. But you're quite correct.
His instructor is a wonderful Korean Grand Master whom the children adore. About all that's necessary anymore for me to correct Lurker Jrs behavior is a gentle "Do you think Master Han would like to see you doing that?".
Plus his Dojang is really big on family involvement. Many times Master Han will pull the parents up and involve them in the lesson. I didn't know I could still crack out 20 push ups with an 11 year old on my back.
It's made an immense difference in his focus, concentration, and self confidence. He's small for his age and we were concerned about bullying with him attending a new school. So over the summer we enrolled him hoping he'd like the course. Well he loves it.
I've even set up the garage so he has a place to practice his forms. It's not bad for the larger less well behaved children in the neighborhood to see him kicking and punching the crap out of a hanging bag or him displaying the targets he shoots around the neighborhood to his friends.
I'm thinking of a more 'gentle' art for myself. Maybe Aikido. I'm not nearly as flexible as I used to be!
You stay safe as well. The world needs all the men and women of good will we can scrape together. I have a very disturbing feeling that things are going to get a whole lot worse before they get better.
Regards,
L
> I'm thinking of a more 'gentle' art for myself. Maybe Aikido. I'm not nearly as flexible as I used to be!
Many of our NZ members are trained in Aikido: flexibility is not so important, and it is a very good platform for "minimal use-of-force" as it is mostly a Defensive form: it relies on redirecting the attacker's energy without needing to exert much effort yourself. Perfect!
I'd say that's a good choice. Also great for kids, would complement TKD quite nicely for your son.
L
The dog also needs a lot of attention ,and a German Shepard or any other large dog is not 100% safe around kids or you.
We have always had dogs here in the country,some were wonderful,some were so vicous they had to be put down,some were sneaky and killed other pets only when no one was home. Purebreds are the worst in my opinion.
> Oh crap.
>
> The dog also needs a lot of attention ,and a German Shepard or any other large dog is not 100% safe around kids or you.
Oh crap yourself.
I'd rather trust my kids with a dog than with a loaded pistol. How 'bout you?
And I'd rather confront a nut with a large rabid dog than a nut with a loaded gun.
That's not even a matter of serious debate.
> Purebreds are the worst in my opinion.
You clearly know very little about dogs -- and German Shepherds as a breed in particular.
Maybe you should educate yourself in the subject of dog handling before spruiking off your wild and unfounded opinions.
If you've owned dogs "so vicious they had to be put down" or that "were sneaky and killed other pets only when no one was at home" then shame on you: that's your fault, not the dog's. Clearly, you should not own any dog, far less a firearm.
Goldfish are reasonably safe pets for you: just feed them regularly but not too much.
A large rabid dog would be a danger to everyone.Rabies shots are no fun,neither is having your throat torn out. I prefer non-rabid dogs. And non-rabid people. I just want someone who thinks getting a big mean dog to realize the commitment in time and money,and that you can't just put the dog in a safe place until needed. The dog must be fed watered cleaned after and especially given personal attention if in your home.
I find great used S&W K frame .357s all the time here in NC for $200-300. I have several in easy access lock boxes all through the house. The Remington 1100 is on a rack in the laundry room upstairs, with 8 in the tube and 7 on the side saddle it will handle small insurgencies and zombie attacks.
Emma the standard schnauzer is a 'watch/alert' dog and a great companion. But, she leaves the confrontations to me.
Those are a great buy. I had one for years. A friend of mine was constantly asking to buy mine. It was an Illinois State Police custom Model 19. Combat hammer, target trigger, adjustable sights, a really nice pistol but I just didn't shoot it much.
Mrs L. prefers her 629 and I have a Commander I'm very loyal to so I sold it to my neighbor. Now I wish I hadn't....
Pugsley is a great 'alert' dog and I have no doubt he'd give his all in a confrontation but he is after all a Pug. And as I said above we simply don't have the room for a 90 pound dog.
So we make do with what we have.
L
Yea - I was just having some fun. It wasn't sarcasm in the way Israel is treated, and it this seemed like a good way to illustrate it.
> And as I said above we simply don't have the room for a 90 pound dog.
German Shepherds need lots of room and regular exercise: as do all large working dogs.
If room is an issue, I advocate Jack Russell Terriers: smaller than most cats and more raw courage than most timberwolves. Very smart and good with kids. But mess with a Jack Russell Terrier and your ankles are in for serious trouble!
If you have a bit more room (and access to plenty of exercise space) nothing -- absolutely nothing -- beats Border Collies (not the Lassie dogs: those are the "other" collies) for brains and loyalty. The Border Collie and the Huntaway Cross are the New Zealand working dogs-of-choice, for a really good reason: both are smarter than any other animal (German Shepherds included) and both are much smarter than people.
The other is a Papillon. He's smart as a whip and fast as a snake. They're also excellent 'alert' dogs so I understand. No one, and I mean no one is going to enter our home without raising a racket loud enough to wake the dead.
We picked smaller breeds due to our limited space. We simply don't have enough room for a large working dog to get enough exersize.
Border collies are another great breed, but once again space became an issue. Besides our cat doesn't particularly enjoy being herded.
Some days I think the only thing in the house I'm smarter than is my 11 year old son and, possibly, our rabbit although there are days I'm certain the rabbit is some kind of mental mutant with the power to cloud the minds of mortal men.
So we plan to fall back on superior tactics, solid planning, and overwhelming firepower in the event of any life threatening emergency. Between the barking, yapping, alarms, sirens, and well aimed shots I think we can repel anything up to a small horde of flesh eating zombies.
Anything worse than that comes along and we just plan to put our faith in the Lord and a gassed up SUV pointed out of town.
L
Thanks for the explanation--I was really worried about you! LOL!
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