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Don't Marry a Career Woman: The Debate Heats Up
Men's News Daily ^ | September 11, 2006 | Carey Roberts

Posted on 09/11/2006 10:39:33 AM PDT by FreeManDC

Wondering about that muffled howl you’ve been hearing the last couple weeks? It’s the sound and fury of feminists reacting to Michael Noer’s latest exegesis, Don’t Marry a Career Woman.

Noer’s column, which ran at Forbes.com, surveyed marriages in which the wives doggedly pursue a high-powered career, all the while neglecting family and home. The research shows these women are more likely to be unhappy if she earns more than the guy, or if she quits her job and stays home. Either way, she’s going to be a grump.

Her husband is more prone to be discontented if she is the primary breadwinner. The house is going to be dirtier. In the end, she is more apt to cheat on him and the marriage will fall apart. [www.forbes.com/2006/08/23/Marriage-Careers-Divorce_cx_mn_land.html]

Of course, these findings don’t apply to every ambitious woman who has risen to the top of her field – but the connection is true in many cases.

In practically every woman’s magazine, you’ll find advice columns to help the reader find Mr. Right and then entice her football-addled boyfriend to commit for the long-haul.

But when a male columnist dispenses relationship advice for men, that appears to be strictly verboten — at least according to the Shrieking Sisters of Silliness who cut loose on Mr. Noer.

On Good Morning America, one Rutgers U. prof claimed to be absolutely shocked: “I’m surprised that the man thinks it. I’m astonished that he wrote it. And I’m astonished that anyone published it, particularly Forbes.” (No word whether MIT professor Nancy Hopkins swooned at the news.)

Forbes hastily arranged for reporter Elizabeth Corcoran to pen a response sporting the acid title, “Don’t Marry a Lazy Man.” Describing Noer’s factual article as “frightening,” she dispensed this condescending advice about men: “If he can pick up new ideas faster than your puppy, you’ve got a winner.”

Needless to say, Ms. Corcoran’s screed only reinforced the worst stereotypes of the “I-know-what-I-want-and-I-know-how-to-get-it” career woman portrayed in Noer’s column.

Thereupon the readers jumped into the fray, all recounting their grudges about members of the opposite sex. A pretty picture it was not, but the debate is long-overdue: http://forums.forbes.com/forbes/board?board.id=respond_marry_career_woman and http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1688730/posts .

Part of the ladies’ discomfiture with Mr. Noer’s article springs from the fact that for the last 30 years, discussions about women in the workforce have been guided by the unspoken rule, “Men’s Opinions Don’t Count.”

But then women’s one-sided conversations lapsed into over-wrought declamations about men who didn’t pitch in around the house, forgetting that that men often put in longer hours on the job, commute longer distances, and do physical labor that leaves them exhausted.

Doesn’t mowing the grass, killing creepy-crawlers that traipse through the kitchen, clearing leaves out of the gutter, and coaching Little League count for anything?

And let’s not forget the old axiom that rights and responsibilities go hand-in-hand. If women are demanding more rights, then what additional duties – like compulsory registration for the draft — are they going to shoulder?

Ironically, the same day that Michael Noer published his op-ed, columnist Nancy Levant came out with a fem-ripper called The Cultural Devastation of Women. [www.newswithviews.com/Levant/nancy55.htm]

Levant deplored the fact that thanks to the libbers, American women “now hire maid services, landscapers, pool cleaners, painters, interior decorators. . . .while losing every intuitive aspect of our female natures.” In the process, women “use men like ATMs” and “bankrupt multiple men with mandatory child support payments.”

One can only imagine the hullabaloo if Mrs. Levant had uttered such heresy at Forbes.

So what’s a career woman to do? For a moment, let’s can the feminist ideology and take stock of that rare commodity, common sense.

Have you ever seen a woman (or man, for that matter) exclaim at death’s door, “I only wish that I could have spent more time in the office”? Neither have I.

It’s no secret that the most rewarding parts of a person’s life revolve around relationships with spouses, children, and other family. So why are career women driven to dismember those connections that give the most meaning to their lives?

It’s true that women find satisfaction and fulfillment from paid work. And some have no choice but to get a full-time job.

But the reality is, wives’ happiness is not tied to living out of a suitcase or having an equal paycheck with their husbands. Indeed, the opposite is true. When husbands are the primary wage earners, wives have more freedom to pursue their own interests.

So Mr. Noer, lick off those wounds, straighten up that tie, and sharpen your pencil. Get ready for Round Two.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: bitchbitchbitchbitch; career; careerdebate; careerwomen; debate; divorce; earnings; forbes; freedom; genderwars; hitch; hitched; love; loveandmarriage; marriage; matrimony; men; menarefrommars; nuptial; nuptials; separation; sexes; vampira; women; womenarefromvenus; womenstrikeaturanus; work
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1 posted on 09/11/2006 10:39:35 AM PDT by FreeManDC
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To: FreeManDC

Ping to read later.


2 posted on 09/11/2006 10:40:32 AM PDT by kellynch ("Our only freedom is the freedom to discipline ourselves." -- Bernard Baruch)
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To: xsmommy

Get back to the kitchen and cook me dinner, woman.


3 posted on 09/11/2006 10:41:57 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: FreeManDC

Discussed on FR earlier, and I think the concensus was "Don't marry a b*tch!", and it just so happens that there tends to be a higher proportion of b*tches among career women than normal women, but that may not even be the case, or the difference may be small.


4 posted on 09/11/2006 10:42:42 AM PDT by Paradox (The "smarter" the individual, the greater his power of self-delusion.)
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To: FreeManDC

Beer me, Marge!


5 posted on 09/11/2006 10:42:45 AM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: FreeManDC

Sounds like someone struck a truth nerve.


6 posted on 09/11/2006 10:43:49 AM PDT by Vision ("As a man thinks...so is he." Proverbs 23:7)
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To: FreeManDC

7 posted on 09/11/2006 10:43:54 AM PDT by HEY4QDEMS (Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.)
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To: FreeManDC

My solution is "not getting married." I figure that by the time I'm forty and rich, there will still be plenty of divorcees and manipulative twentysomethings for me to date.


8 posted on 09/11/2006 10:44:28 AM PDT by Gordongekko909 (Mark 5:9)
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To: FreeManDC

I reckon it' ddepend upon the woman. if she's a rabid feminist, then she'd probably have a career. That would probably be a bad match for any poor fellow dumb enough to get mixed up with.

On the other hand, there are some nice ones. The problem is that they're subjected to a barrage of male bashing and criticisms on an ongoing basis by management in the guise of "sensitivity training exercises". If you can find one that hasn't been warped by that, you'll probably be OK.

Mine is a formed Dean of Students. a more wonderful woman cannot be found - career or not.


9 posted on 09/11/2006 10:44:37 AM PDT by camle (keep your mind open and somebody will fill it full of something for you)
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To: kellynch
The house is going to be dirtier

I keep a very clean house!

10 posted on 09/11/2006 10:45:42 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for SSgt. Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: FreeManDC
...according to the Shrieking Sisters of Silliness who cut loose on Mr. Noer.

Hehehehehehehe...

11 posted on 09/11/2006 10:46:12 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: martin_fierro

Okay- But after I cook your dinner can I have 500.00 to buy
a new winter coat and boots to match?


12 posted on 09/11/2006 10:46:37 AM PDT by Judy Jetsun (Activan-Apply Directly to the Forehead x12)
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To: FreeManDC

I'd rather marry a professional woman than one of those amateur women.


13 posted on 09/11/2006 10:47:15 AM PDT by Tennessee_Bob ("Those who "abjure" violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.")
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To: HEY4QDEMS

14 posted on 09/11/2006 10:47:47 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: Paradox; pissant; teenyelliott; najida; cyborg
pissant tells teeny, "Get in the kitchen and make me some pie!"


15 posted on 09/11/2006 10:48:09 AM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: FreeManDC

The amazing thing is that, as a guy, I don't think I'd mind doing all the guy things (mow yard, kill spiders, etc) if all I could get was a minimal amount of respect. That's all. While I'm not yet married, there is something undeniably fun about doing The Man things when the ladies need them done and I get to do it. If they have a bare minimum of appreciation for them.


16 posted on 09/11/2006 10:48:14 AM PDT by JamesP81 ("Never let your schooling interfere with your education" --Mark Twain)
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To: Judy Jetsun
But after I cook your dinner can I have 500.00 to buy a new winter coat and boots to match?

No.

17 posted on 09/11/2006 10:48:24 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: FreeManDC

Marrying a career woman is just plain stupid, unless you are one of those rare male golddiggers. But it's still stupid because you'll still be miserable, but while driving a nicer car...

It is not a cultural thing. It is simply the way we are wired (designed). Men and women were designed with different purposes in mind.


18 posted on 09/11/2006 10:49:05 AM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is more dangerous to the world now that Naziism was in 1937.)
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To: FreeManDC

Marrying a "career woman" is fine as long as you're the kind of guy who doesn't mind sharing your wife with someone else. In truth, she'll have two spouses--you, and her job.


19 posted on 09/11/2006 10:50:14 AM PDT by Antoninus (I don't vote for liberals, regardless of party.)
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To: FreeManDC

What kind of career? Some women make a career out of having kids....or cooking and cleaning.


20 posted on 09/11/2006 10:50:54 AM PDT by Fawn (http://www.jokaroo.com/funnyvideos/toilet_obsession.html)
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To: FreeManDC

Being married to a career woman, and currently being the primary caregiver for two kids, I can identify a lot with what is in the article. I have a small business that I try to run in the in-between times.

There IS more conflict being married to a career woman. Even if you are the primary bread winner during her education (as I was), that tends to be forgotten when the tables turn after her career becomes established. It's sort of a "What have you done for me, lately?" situation. Furthermore, if the woman gets to be THE boss at work and comes home to her Celt-to-the-core spouse after work, who will not knuckle under to intimidation (and is also fairly impervious to physical coercion from experience in the bar and racetrack pit wars of his misspent youth), there is going to be even MORE coflict.....but I digress......

Dudes, be careful what you wish and work for. You might just get it!


21 posted on 09/11/2006 10:50:59 AM PDT by 308MBR (Milkin' and a churnin', pickin' cotton, raising "heck" and balin' hay!)
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To: Paradox

Very good point.


22 posted on 09/11/2006 10:51:01 AM PDT by dinoparty
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To: martin_fierro

LOL..Kinda thought that would be the answer....


23 posted on 09/11/2006 10:51:16 AM PDT by Judy Jetsun (Activan-Apply Directly to the Forehead x12)
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To: Oberon; teenyelliott

Teeny has perfected ignoring me by now. ;o)


24 posted on 09/11/2006 10:51:24 AM PDT by pissant
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To: FreeManDC

Put Another Log on the Fire


Put another log on the fire.
Cook me up some bacon and some beans.
And go out to the car and change the tyre.
Wash my socks and sew my old blue jeans.
Come on, baby, you can fill my pipe,
And then go fetch my slippers.
And boil me up another pot of tea.
Then put another log on the fire, babe,
And come and tell me why you're leaving me.

Now don't I let you wash the car on Sunday?
Don't I warn you when you're gettin fat?
Ain't I a-gonna take you fishin' with me someday?
Well, a man can't love a woman more than that.
Ain't I always nice to your kid sister?
Don't I take her driving every night?
So, sit here at my feet 'cos I like you when you're sweet,
And you know it ain't feminine to fight.

So, put another log on the fire.
Cook me up some bacon and some beans.
Go out to the car and lift it up and change the tyre.
Wash my socks and sew my old blue jeans.
Come on, baby, you can fill my pipe,
And then go fetch my slippers.
And boil me up another pot of tea.
Then put another log on the fire, babe,
And come and tell me why you're leaving me.


http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/outlaws-the/put-another-log-on-the-fire---tompall-glaser-2736.html

Artist/Band: Outlaws, The
Lyrics for Song: Put Another Log on the Fire - Tompall Glaser
Lyrics for Album: Wanted!


25 posted on 09/11/2006 10:51:38 AM PDT by VOA
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To: Judy Jetsun

< |:)~


26 posted on 09/11/2006 10:52:11 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: Gordongekko909

Just do what you want to do.....what a caller to Rush does.....go to Cherryblossoms.com....


27 posted on 09/11/2006 10:52:16 AM PDT by Fawn (http://www.jokaroo.com/funnyvideos/toilet_obsession.html)
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To: FreeManDC

Relationships between men and women have been distorted for some time, and the economic system has changed as well.

So, you have the queen bitches who want to make it to the top so they can lay down the law and make their husbands lie down, roll over, and beg, and you have the women who haven't been able to find a decent family man to marry and ended up having to work, like it or not. Our economy and our divorce laws and our cultural assumptions now pretty much demand that a lot of women have to work, like it or not.

In other words, there are exceptions to any rule.


28 posted on 09/11/2006 10:52:24 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Antoninus

As opposed to what...a needy, clingy wife who has no interests other than you?


29 posted on 09/11/2006 10:52:58 AM PDT by dinoparty
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To: 308MBR

Sounds like you will be needing an attorney - eventually.


30 posted on 09/11/2006 10:53:03 AM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is more dangerous to the world now that Naziism was in 1937.)
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To: martin_fierro

"Get back to the kitchen and cook me dinner, woman."

- Amen! Back in the good ole days


31 posted on 09/11/2006 10:53:04 AM PDT by Reagan79 (Ralph Stanley & The Clinch Mountain Boys)
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To: Paradox

Yep, see my post #34 on this thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1688730/posts


32 posted on 09/11/2006 10:54:08 AM PDT by Toby06
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To: FreeManDC

"Get me a beer woman, and don't block the TV."


33 posted on 09/11/2006 10:54:17 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: martin_fierro

"But after I cook your dinner can I have 500.00 to buy a new winter coat and boots to match?"

"No".

Feel like getting frisky tonight dear?

No


34 posted on 09/11/2006 10:54:25 AM PDT by bella1 (Support the Minuteman Project.)
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To: RobRoy

"Marrying a career woman is just plain stupid, unless you are one of those rare male golddiggers."

John Kerry, haha


35 posted on 09/11/2006 10:54:26 AM PDT by Reagan79 (Ralph Stanley & The Clinch Mountain Boys)
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To: JamesP81

Any man that would kill a spider is a hero in my book!!

Here's my tip, find a woman, not for her hot body, but who has a strong character, and one whose mom respects and admires her dad. Then she'll have had a good role model. You want a woman, look at her mother. (under normal circumstances.) Women, look at his dad.

I've noticed young ladies who have been homeschooled often want to put a family above any career.


36 posted on 09/11/2006 10:54:31 AM PDT by Shimmer128 (I've seen the village, I don't want it raising my children)
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To: Mr. Mojo

Lol! I haven't seen that one in a while; it's a classic.


37 posted on 09/11/2006 10:54:32 AM PDT by MotleyGirl70
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To: pissant
Teeny has perfected ignoring me by now. ;o)

Yes, well, I bet she isn't the only one. =]

38 posted on 09/11/2006 10:54:40 AM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: FreeManDC
Levant deplored the fact that thanks to the libbers, American women “now hire maid services, landscapers, pool cleaners, painters, interior decorators. . . .while losing every intuitive aspect of our female natures.” In the process, women “use men like ATMs” and “bankrupt multiple men with mandatory child support payments.”

Any wonder that liberal American women are lamenting the fact that liberal American men want no commitment? Women get married to feed their need for emotional, and sometimes financial desires. I can see liberal men saying, "What's in it for me? Fidelity? Respect? Nope." More and more American women are spoiled and unfeminine. If I were in the search mode, I may look offshore for a wife.

39 posted on 09/11/2006 10:54:59 AM PDT by mikeus_maximus (The War on Terror has now become the Democracy Project.)
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To: FreeManDC

It seems most men today want their wives to work and earn money - the more they earn, the better - and they want the kids in daycare. So, I guess they are shocked by this column.


40 posted on 09/11/2006 10:55:20 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (That's taxes, not Texas. I have no beef with TX. NJ has the highest property taxes in the nation.)
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To: JamesP81
Indeed. The NAGs have completely failed to realize one of the most powerful weapons in the female arsenal: the Ego Stroke. It can do things to guys that no amount of threats or nagging ever could. Alright, ladies, pay attention:

Step one: draw breath and smile, while opening your eyes as wide as you can.

Step two: do the "anime hand clasp." Illustration:

Step three: breathlessly praise your target's manliness or skillz or something.

Congratulations, the testosterone is now coursing through your mark and he will do anything to please you. And hey, he's happy too. Enjoy.

41 posted on 09/11/2006 10:55:29 AM PDT by Gordongekko909 (Mark 5:9)
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To: FreeManDC

(non PC on) My observations of execs is this. Probably 90% of the male execs have a wife who is either stay at home, or, who has a fairly inconsequential job. Rare to see execs married to other execs. Female execs have "no name" husbands or ones who are indepedently wealthy, are lawyes, doctors or government. Very unusual to see a female exec with a high profile, corporate hubby. The remaining execs are singles or gays, but this remainder group is a minor fraction. (/non PC off)


42 posted on 09/11/2006 10:55:29 AM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: FreeManDC

I think the bottom line is that men want a partner, not a competitor. I've dated such career minded women and they want to 'challenge' you more than be with you.


43 posted on 09/11/2006 10:56:20 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: FreeManDC

Man...I'd love to hear what some of the posters on this thread have to say about Michelle Malkin and her family situation...


44 posted on 09/11/2006 10:56:21 AM PDT by Ex-Dem
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To: RobRoy

You're entitled to your opinion. My wife has a Ph.D. and is a very capable manager and has a fantastic career I'm proud of. I could not be any more happily married. Who says it's not a cultural thing ? Why is it/could be miserable ? Because you have to share chores, and handle responsibilities together ?

And here I thought we here in America were all about teamwork and getting it done. You'd rather come home and talk to your wife about what happened on a latest soap opera ? I prefer to ask 'what new and exciting things is your company doing, honey ?'


45 posted on 09/11/2006 10:56:34 AM PDT by farlander (Strategery - sure beats liberalism!)
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To: dinoparty

>As opposed to what...a needy, clingy wife who has no interests other than you?<<

That is how some would describe Robroy's Woman. But she is more. MUCH MORE! And I know that the feelings are mutual.

Over eight years, we're both 52, and the honeymoon aint over. In fact, our relationship gets only stronger.


46 posted on 09/11/2006 10:56:40 AM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is more dangerous to the world now that Naziism was in 1937.)
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To: FreeManDC
But when a male columnist dispenses relationship advice for men, that appears to be strictly verboten — at least according to the Shrieking Sisters of Silliness who cut loose on Mr. Noer.

I imagine they don't like Tom Leykis, either.

47 posted on 09/11/2006 10:56:53 AM PDT by Jim Noble (Something is happening here but you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?)
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To: 308MBR

God forbid a woman has a passion for something other than disciplining kids, cooking and cleaning huh?


48 posted on 09/11/2006 10:57:14 AM PDT by Fawn (http://www.jokaroo.com/funnyvideos/toilet_obsession.html)
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To: Reagan79; martin_fierro
"Get back to the kitchen and cook me dinner, woman."

- Amen! Back in the good ole days

You guys are just begging to get b**** slapped aren't you?

If the wrong FR ladies see your comments, you're in for it!

Don't say G.B. didn't warn you!

49 posted on 09/11/2006 10:57:19 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for SSgt. Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: FreeManDC

Stand by your man
And show the world you love him 
Keep giving all the love you can
Stand by your man

50 posted on 09/11/2006 10:57:44 AM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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