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H.RES.999 Urging Turkey to respect the rights and religious freedoms...(EU and "interesting" alert)
United States House of Representatives Thomas Search ^ | September 18, 2006 | House of Representatives

Posted on 09/20/2006 10:04:07 AM PDT by longtermmemmory


Whereas Turkey began accession negotiations with the European Union on October 3, 2005; (Introduced in House)

HRES 999 IH

109th CONGRESS

2d Session

H. RES. 999

Urging Turkey to respect the rights and religious freedoms of the Ecumenical Patriarch.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

September 12, 2006

Mrs. MALONEY (for herself, Mr. BILIRAKIS, Mr. ANDREWS, Mr. HINCHEY, Ms. WATSON, Mr. DOYLE, Mr. CROWLEY, Mr. ACKERMAN, Mr. MCGOVERN, Mrs. LOWEY, and Mr. BACA) submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on International Relations


RESOLUTION

Urging Turkey to respect the rights and religious freedoms of the Ecumenical Patriarch.

Whereas Turkey began accession negotiations with the European Union on October 3, 2005;

Whereas in 1993 the European Union defined the membership criteria for accession to the European Union at the Copenhagen European Council, obligating candidate countries to have achieved certain levels of reform, including stability of institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, and human rights, and respect for and protection of minorities;

Whereas the Government of Turkey refuses to recognize the Ecumenical Patriarch's international status; and

Whereas the Government of Turkey has limited to Turkish nationals the candidates available to the Holy Synod for selection as the Ecumenical Patriarch and has refused to reopen the Theological School at Halki, thus impeding training for the clergy: Now, therefore, be it



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: agia; agiasophia; bartholomeos; benedict; church; cyprus; eu; european; islam; negotiations; orthodox; patriarch; patriarchate; pope; religion; sofia; turkey; union
the list of sponsors:

Rep Ackerman, Gary L. [NY-5] - 9/12/2006
Rep Andrews, Robert E. [NJ-1] - 9/12/2006
Rep Baca, Joe [CA-43] - 9/12/2006
Rep Bilirakis, Michael [FL-9] - 9/12/2006
Rep Crowley, Joseph [NY-7] - 9/12/2006
Rep Doyle, Michael F. [PA-14] - 9/12/2006
Rep Hinchey, Maurice D. [NY-22] - 9/12/2006
Rep Lowey, Nita M. [NY-18] - 9/12/2006
Rep McGovern, James P. [MA-3] - 9/12/2006
Rep Sanchez, Linda T. [CA-39] - 9/19/2006
Rep Watson, Diane E. [CA-33] - 9/12/2006

This is a pending bill before the House of Representatives for a Resolution. I think it is particularly relevant given the recent deaths as a result of a recent rioting over the 600 year old quote.

If anyone would like to speak to their house of representatives congressman just go to the U.S. House of Representatives and just type in your zip code and give them a call or send an email.

It is HR 999

Take a look at the bill and see the restrictions the Turkish government puts on the Patriarchate and how they have actually closed a religious school just because it is Christian and trains priests.

It has been reffered to the committee on international relations. I will post their membership below.

Any exposure people can give to this would be good. Ping lists would be appreciated.

1 posted on 09/20/2006 10:04:09 AM PDT by longtermmemmory
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To: longtermmemmory

This is inre the death threats against the Pope? Sheesh!


2 posted on 09/20/2006 10:06:14 AM PDT by Froufrou
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To: All
This is the committee which has the resolution right now:


Members
UpFull Comm. HearingsJurisdiction 

Committee on International Relations
Members of the 109th Congress

(Click on a Members' name or photo to visit their Web site)

Mr. Henry J. Hyde   
  Henry J. Hyde, Chairman
Illinois, 6th District

Mr. Leach

James A. Leach
Iowa, 2nd District

Mr. Tom Lantos

Tom Lantos
California, 12th District

Mr. Smith

Christopher H. Smith,
Vice Chairman
New Jersey, 4th District

Mr. Berman

Howard L. Berman
California, 28th District

Dan Burton
Indiana, 5th District

Mr. Ackerman

Gary L. Ackerman
New York, 5th District

Mr. Gallegly

Elton Gallegly
California, 24th District

Mr. Faleomavaega

Eni F. H. Faleomavaega
American Samoa

Ms. Ros-Lehtinen

Ileana Ros-Lehtinen
Florida, 18th District

Mr. Payne

Donald M. Payne
New Jersey, 10th District

Dana Rohrabacher
California, 46th District

Mr. Brown

Sherrod Brown
Ohio, 13th District

Mr. Royce

Edward R. Royce
California, 40th District

Mr. Sherman

Brad Sherman
California, 27th District

Mr. King

Peter T. King
New York, 3rd District

Mr. Wexler

Robert Wexler
Florida, 19th District

Mr. Chabot

Steve Chabot
Ohio, 1st District

Mr. Engel

Eliot L. Engel
New York, 17th District

Mr. Tancredo

Thomas G. Tancredo
Colorado, 6th District

Mr. Delahunt

William D. Delahunt
Massachusetts, 10th District

Mr. Paul

Ron Paul
Texas, 14th District

Mr. Meeks

Gregory W. Meeks
New York, 6th District

Mr. Issa

Darrell Issa
California, 49th District

Ms. Lee

Barbara Lee
California, 9th District

Mr. Flake

Jeff Flake
Arizona, 6th District

Mr. Crowley

Joseph Crowley
New York, 7th District

Mrs. Davis

Jo Ann Davis
Virginia, 1st District

Mr. Blumenauer

Earl Blumenauer
Oregon, 3rd District

Mr. Green

Mark Green
Wisconsin, 8th District

Ms. Berkley

Shelley Berkley
Nevada, 1st District

Mr. Weller

Jerry Weller
Illinois, 11th District

Ms. Napolitano

Grace F. Napolitano
California, 38th District

Mr. Pence

Mike Pence
Indiana, 6th District

Adam B. Schiff
California, 29th District

Mr. McCotter

Thaddeus G. McCotter
Michigan, 11th District

Ms. Watson

Diane E. Watson
California, 33rd District

Ms. Harris

Katherine Harris
Florida, 13th District

Mr. Smith

Adam Smith
Washington, 9th District

Mr. Wilson

Joe Wilson
South Carolina, 2nd District

Ms.McCollum

Betty McCollum
Minnesota, 4th District

Mr. Boozman

John Boozman
Arkansas, 3rd District

Mr. Chandler

Ben Chandler
Kentucky, 6th District

Mr. Barrett

J. Gresham Barrett
South Carolina, 3rd District
Mr. Cardoza Dennis A. Cardoza
California, 18th District

Mr. Mack

Connie Mack
Florida, 14th District
Russ Carnahan
Missouri, 3rd District
 
Mr. Fortenberry Jeff Fortenberry
Nebraska, 1st District

Subcommittee Members

Back to Home Page

Mr. McCaul

Michael McCaul
Texas, 10th District
Mr. Poe Ted Poe
Texas, 2nd District

3 posted on 09/20/2006 10:07:52 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Froufrou

There is a gate at the patriachate which has not be used for centuries. The moslems lynched a patriach at that gate in the name of the religion of peace.

The gate was closed and has never been used since. They build another doorway.


4 posted on 09/20/2006 10:10:09 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory

I keep saying it, but I really am going to get a gun license and learn how to use a weapon. I'm almost ready to shoot on sight.


5 posted on 09/20/2006 10:11:48 AM PDT by Froufrou
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To: NYer; Kolokotronis; Destro

Ping


6 posted on 09/20/2006 10:11:49 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory

For later.


7 posted on 09/20/2006 10:19:44 AM PDT by Southside_Chicago_Republican (Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman)
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To: longtermmemmory

For later.


8 posted on 09/20/2006 10:19:46 AM PDT by Southside_Chicago_Republican (Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman)
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To: 4butnomorethan30characters; sandyeggo; SJackson

ping


9 posted on 09/20/2006 10:22:26 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory
There's more to this than appears on the surface. The question revolves around the nature of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. Is the holder of that office an "Orthodox Pope," with some responsibilities for Orthodox churches in countries other than Turkey? Or are his responsibilities limited only to the Orthodox Church in Turkey?

The Turks are afraid the current Patriarch is trying to make himself an Orthodox Pope, rather than restricting his responsibilities to Turkey only. Hence the restriction on the nationality of the Patriarch.

It would seem to me the issue should be settled by the Orthodox themselves, not by a secular-cum-Muslim Turkish government. However, no one asked me.

I'm not sure our government ought to get involved. Will we next see a resolution on who can be chosen the Catholic Pope?

10 posted on 09/20/2006 10:43:33 AM PDT by JoeFromSidney (My book is out. Read excerpts at www.thejusticecooperative.com)
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: JoeFromSidney

He covers churches in more than one country.

Essentially the objective is to create a Patriachate akin to the micro nation of the vatican. Keep in mind much of the land in Jeruselum is owned by the Patriachate.

There is very little in this which objectionable to any western sensibility. The issue here is one of the fact that turkey has an official anti-christianity policy.

Consider what the turkish govenment did and continues to do to the churches in cyprus, they are used as stables and the fixtures are sold on the antiquities black market.


12 posted on 09/20/2006 10:58:15 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: JoeFromSidney; longtermmemmory

"The Turks are afraid the current Patriarch is trying to make himself an Orthodox Pope, rather than restricting his responsibilities to Turkey only. Hence the restriction on the nationality of the Patriarch."

The Turks are afraid of no such thing. The restrictions on the person of the EP and the institution of the Patriarchate are intended to assure the final dissolution of the Greek Orthodox Christian presence in Turkey. At present there are about 2000 Greek Orthodox in all of Turkey, most of them very old. By limiting the eligible candidates for the Patriarchial Throne to Turkish citizens by law, the seat will become vacant within, say, 30 years. That will be the end of what by tradition is the second see of Christianity and the first in Orthodoxy. Turkey has already seized the overwhelming majority of the Patriarchates' churches and other properties...without any compensation by the way. As things stand now, the Patriarchate of Constantinople is doomed and 1800 years of history will simply end.

This has absolutely nothing to do with an Orthodox papacy. The Last Orthodox pope sat in Rome more than 1000 years ago. Orthodoxy has no pope now nor will there be one unless there is a reunion with Rome...and he will sit in Rome, not Constantinople. The Ecumenical Patriarch, however, is not merely an archbihop in Turkey. He is the Patriarch of the Oecumene, and that includes very large portions of the world outside of Turkey, in effect, anywhere there are Greek Orthodox Churches outside of Greece where another Patriarch does not have defined canonical jurisdiction.

It is beyond any argument that I can fathom that our government should call on the howling Mohammedans of the Turkish government to free the Patriarchate and allow that institution and the person of the Patriarch to fulfill its appropriate functions both in Turkey and in the world.


13 posted on 09/20/2006 3:17:12 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: crazykatz; JosephW; lambo; MoJoWork_n; newberger; The_Reader_David; jb6; wildandcrazyrussian; ...

Orthodox ping. Please contact your reps.


14 posted on 09/20/2006 3:19:10 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: longtermmemmory; kiki04; Kolokotronis; MarMema; kosta50; wrathof59; katnip; FormerLib; ezfindit; ...

Thank you for posting this.

bump Greek list.


15 posted on 09/20/2006 3:40:15 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian

Next year in Constantinople bump.


16 posted on 09/20/2006 4:58:29 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: longtermmemmory

BUMP!


17 posted on 09/20/2006 5:48:39 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: JoeFromSidney

The Ecumenical Patriarch is the chief hierarch of the Patriarchate of Constantinople, which has jurisdiction over not just the 3000 or so Orthodox Christians still residing in European Turkey*, but over Mount Athos, which is semi-independent, but whose foreign relations are handle by the Republic of Greece, over churches in the Greek Islands (the Church of Greece has jurisdiction only over mainland Greece), as well as the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of North and South America, and other 'diaspora' jursidictions in Australia, East and South Asia (esp. S. Korea, Indonesia and India, where none of the other patriarchates have churches), and Western Europe.

The Turks are fools if they think the E.P. can arrogate quasi-papal authority to himself. Neither Moscow nor any of the other patriarchates and autocephalous churches would stand for it. The only explanation for Turkish policy is a desire to destroy the Ecumenical Patriarchate's presence in Turkey by attrition so there is no outcry against it.

A resolution on the matter is every bit as appropriate for the U.S. with its tradition of religious freedom as a similar resolution would be if an anti-Christian government in Italy were to close all of the Latin church's seminaries and forbid the appointment of a non-Italian as Pope of Rome.

Turkey wants to join the E.U. and with it the West. Congress can tell them to play by the West's rules, religious freedom included.

*Asia Minor's tiny Orthodox minority, who have been denied access to clergy since the forced exchange of populations in the wake of the 2nd Greco-Turkish War in 1922 are under the jurisdiction of the Patriarch of Antioch--which has been in exile in Damascus from its proper seat, Antioch in Asia Minor, from that time.


18 posted on 09/20/2006 6:10:57 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: Froufrou; longtermmemmory; Kolokotronis; Mrs. Don-o; Pyro7480; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; ...
This is in re the death threats against the Pope?

No. This is in regard to the denial of religious freedom for christians, in Turkey. The Patriarch referred to in the Bill, is Orthodox; the Pope is Catholic. Ironically enough, this bill was introduced to the House, on the same day the Pope delivered the now famous address at the University of Regensburg. Hence, it now stands to be bolstered by Catholic christians who choose to contact their respective representative.

Catholic Ping List
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


19 posted on 09/20/2006 6:33:52 PM PDT by NYer ("That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah." Hillel)
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To: Kolokotronis
Quick question ....

He is the Patriarch of the Oecumene, and that includes very large portions of the world outside of Turkey

Can a patriarchate be relocated within the same territory?

It is beyond any argument that I can fathom that our government should call on the howling Mohammedans of the Turkish government to free the Patriarchate and allow that institution and the person of the Patriarch to fulfill its appropriate functions both in Turkey and in the world.

Do you suppose this bill is simply a formality, much like previous ones that decried the forced abortions in China or lack of religious freedom in the USSR?

At present there are about 2000 Greek Orthodox in all of Turkey, most of them very old. By limiting the eligible candidates for the Patriarchial Throne to Turkish citizens by law, the seat will become vacant within, say, 30 years.

We know from history what happens in similar situations. These "churches" go underground. Let us all pray for these persecuted christians and their priests who risk their lives to say liturgy and deliver the sacraments to their dwindling congregations.

20 posted on 09/20/2006 6:47:36 PM PDT by NYer ("That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah." Hillel)
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To: NYer

"Quick question ....

He is the Patriarch of the Oecumene, and that includes very large portions of the world outside of Turkey

Can a patriarchate be relocated within the same territory? "

I suppose so. He could move to Mount Athos for example. That's what happened relatively recently with the Patriarchate of Antioch moving to Damascus. And after the sack of Constantinople by the Crusaders and the enthronement of a "Latin Patriarch", the Patriarchate reestablished itself at Nicea until the Latins were driven out. But this time it means the end the See of Constantinople. Probably the Pope could move to, say, Mexico City. He'd still be the Pope of Rome, but it sure wouldn't be the same, would it.

As for The Church going underground, well there has been an underground church in Turkey for centuries made up of persons who appear to be Mohammedans but who are in fact Orthodox Christians. But without Turkish citizen priests to chose a Patriarch from, there will be no Patriarchate in Constantinople.

"Do you suppose this bill is simply a formality, much like previous ones that decried the forced abortions in China or lack of religious freedom in the USSR?"

It might work given the precarious situation Turkey finds itself in, at least from the pov of secular Turks. But the days of a secular Turkey seem numbered. In any event, it puts the US on record and its the right thing to do.


21 posted on 09/20/2006 6:58:10 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis
As for The Church going underground, well there has been an underground church in Turkey for centuries made up of persons who appear to be Mohammedans but who are in fact Orthodox Christians.

The same thing happened to the Catholics in the Ukraine, when they were forced to convert to Orthodoxy. On the surface, they appeared to be Orthodox, but continued to celebrate the Mass in private homes. They hid icons and precious vessels within their homes, and established 'watches' whenever the Catholic priest came to celebrate Mass.

This is also true of the Spanish and Italian Jews who were forced to convert to christianity. They maintained their traditions in the home but practiced the Catholic faith in public.

In any event, it puts the US on record and its the right thing to do.

Agreed!

22 posted on 09/20/2006 7:28:47 PM PDT by NYer ("That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah." Hillel)
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To: Kolokotronis

Actually I am hoping this will not only put the USA on the record, it will force Turkey's hand on this issue. It is not just the "self determination" of the Patriachate, it is also the respect for the various institutions and symbols.

For example it would be worthwhile to start the dialogue that Turkey should return Agia Sophia to the christians as a condidtion of EU membership.


23 posted on 09/20/2006 7:35:39 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: eleni121; NYer

Thanks for pinging this out.

Hopefully people will call their representative since congress is in session. We need to get this out of committee.

Many people don't knwo that the Patriachate gets almost weekly attacks from islamic thugs who literally rush priests and bishops during services.


24 posted on 09/20/2006 7:44:56 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory

The last time I visited was about ten years ago. I remember mean looking Turks hanging out outside the gates of the Patriarchate. I remember our hotel concierge telling us that we should be careful going there.

I remember a lot of disgusting things about Turkey and the bordello they have turned the once great city of Constantinople into.


25 posted on 09/20/2006 7:50:25 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: NYer

But I think the difference is that when the Eastern-rite Catholics of the Ukraine were forced by the Communists in 1946 to join the Orthodox Church, it was physically possible for an Eastern-rite Catholic priest to come around, even if infrequently, because of modern transportation; whereas when their ancestors who were Orthodox were forced to become Eastern-rite Catholic in 1596 (southern Poland, Belorussia, Ukraine) or 1646 (Hungarian kingdom) there were tight and effective border controls which prevented any Orthodox priest from ever getting there. So our ancestors who were officially ERC from the 1600s until about 1900 could merely IDENTIFY with being Orthodox, facilitated by the prayer life and sacraments being identical in form, with just the addition of the commemoration of the Pope rather than the Patriarch of say Serbia.

The difference with Asia Minor ("Turkey") is that the Turkish government has tried for decades to physically annihilate the Christian presence, and drove out the last 500,000 in riots in 1955, which is why it is wierd to hear Turkey continually praised as a "valuable ally" and a "secular democracy".



26 posted on 09/21/2006 4:21:53 AM PDT by wildandcrazyrussian
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To: Kolokotronis

Wrote to Rep. Jackson.


27 posted on 09/21/2006 2:49:43 PM PDT by Southside_Chicago_Republican (Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman)
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To: Southside_Chicago_Republican

God Bless you! Thank-you!


28 posted on 09/21/2006 3:09:54 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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