they want QUOTAS??? diversity for diversity's sake is pure bullsh!t!!!
Posted on 09/21/2006 2:56:20 PM PDT by presidio9
Women are being filtered out of high-level science, math and engineering jobs in the United States, and there is no good reason for it, according to a National Academies report released on Monday.
A committee of experts looked at all the possible excuses — biological differences in ability, hormonal influences, childrearing demands, and even differences in ambition — and found no good explanation for why women are being locked out.
"Compared with men, women faculty members are generally paid less and promoted more slowly, receive fewer honors, and hold fewer leadership positions," the Academies said in a statement.
"These discrepancies do not appear to be based on productivity, the significance of their work, or any other performance measures."
Female minorities fare the worst, the study found. And the expert panel said the discrepancies are costing the country many talented leaders and researchers and recommended immediate and far-reaching changes to change the balance.
"We found no significant biological differences between men and women in science, engineering and mathematics that could account for the lower representation of women in academic faculty and scientific leadership positions," said Donna Shalala, president of the University of Miami and head of the committee that wrote the report.
The study was compiled by all the National Academies — the National Academy of Sciences, National Academy of Engineering, and the Institute of Medicine — which advise Congress, the federal government, and various institutions.
"It is not a lack of talent but an unintended bias ... that is locking women out," Shalala, a former
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
Who makes up this “expert panel”? Well, its head was Donna E. Shalala, a former secretary of health and human services in the Clinton administration and a well-known feminist.
Also on board was Elizabeth Spelke, a professor of psychology at Harvard whose views on this matter should already be crystal clear. In regard to Larry Summers’ purportedly sexist remarks on women in the hard sciences—which were surely the impetus behind this “expert panel” in the first place—Ms. Spelke said: “I disagree point for point.” Ah, so Ms. Spelke already knew the conclusions the “expert panel” would come to before she became one of its “experts.”
And let’s not forget panelist Ana Mari Cauce, a University of Washington psychologist and contributor to the tome Bringing Cultural Diversity to Feminist Psychology. Nor should we leave out Ruth J. Simmons, the president of Brown University and a board member of the radical feminist journal Meridians. Gee, can anyone say “ringers”?
Hmmm. It’s starting to sound as if the NAS’s study was something of a foregone conclusion.
But wait, dear reader, it gets even more pathetic. The obviously dispassionate and objective panel of “experts” dedicated its work to Denice Denton, the deceased chancellor of UC Santa Cruz who was a lesbian crusader for feminist causes. Huh: Perhaps the only thing this panel is “expert” in is fooling dimwitted journalists into spreading its propaganda.
Bulls**t!
I would like to see a study about why there are so few men in elementary teaching, nursing, physical therapy, and secretarial work.
Did they test for intelligence? I doubt it.
It is well-accepted that men tend to the extremes of the intelligence scale. Being a hard science professor requires more intelligence than just about anything. (We can ignore the softer fields of academia where politics play a larger role.)
I'd like to see what the results are when one controls for conventional IQ measures. If they are as I suspect (that people tend to advance regardless of gender based mostly on IQ) then that would also tend to validate the IQ test itself.
Must be all those women teachers from elementary, jr and high school.
Is is sexist for women to point out sexual differences?
Given that the report writing was headed by Donna Shalala, of Clinton Administration fame, I would believe that even a 20% difference in IQ and a 20% difference in number of hours worked between men and women would not be a "good enough reason" in her judgement.
Is this prejudice? You bet, based on her previous performance.
Perhaps they should find a good explanation (i.e. positive data) before generating a press release, rather than leaving the open-ended, backhanded implication that 'inherent prejudice' is somehow responsible for this 'problem'.
How do I know this? I am an exception as I have a bachelor's in physics.
Oh I'm doing it wrong...! (taking gloved hands out of hood --chick recoils in horror at prospect of doing it, backing up 5 meters...)
They like those jobs that you walk away from at the end of the day.
Dammit, why can't wait tables at Hooters???
Serious fabricated BS report. Has anyone seen a campus today? It is all women, 55% and up are women.
All through our early history, the big politicians had male secretaries. Meriweather Lewis was Thomas Jefferson's. I'd say Knox was Washington's but he was more like his ghost writer.
How many world class chess players are there? And why were they shut out?
(Does pure ability have anything to do with it?)
(From a Laura Ingram interview.)
What a crock. ANy woman who can get an engineering degree has lifetime guaranteed employment.
man... You're too nice!!! I got to refrain myself though...
The few women that worked for us were "quiters". They couldn't cut it and weren't willing to give the time required for getting to the top.
My granddaughter LOVES mathematics. She's perfect for my profession. None of us can spell!!!
so, they found explanations, but they weren't considered "good" explanations....
girls... we ALWAYS have exception. My other-half has the MS degree and she's the director of engineering with hundreds engineers and scientists under her. I hope she doesn't read this board :)
Nice find.
they want QUOTAS??? diversity for diversity's sake is pure bullsh!t!!!
Agreed. I hear more "but it's hard" or "I don't know how you do it!" from women when they talk about computers (I am a programmer). In my experience the majority of the women in our computer science program in college wanted to A. work in middle management B. do something technology-related, but not programming or C. teach. I admit that I would love to teach if it paid better.
Especially if you are a female, lesbian, minority, disabled female engineer with a great set of knockers!
Anyone's b.s. detector should be on full alert when any supposedly "objective" report has a leftist fraud like Donna Shalalalaaaa associated with it.... maybe the committee's competent, maybe it's not, but seeing the name Donna Shalala associated with it is good reason to suspect that the fix was in....
I have a degree in engineering from 20 years ago. Back then, there weren't many women in my science, math, and engineering classes.
Maybe women don't want to be engineers, scientists, etc.
I'm not going to recommend the career to my daughters, one of who is much smarter than I ever was. They are not good careers to have if you also want to be a mom.
One of my daughters is great at math, so I am encouraging her to be an accountant. She'll be able to work part-time when she is a mom.
I think my extremely gifted daughter will make a great teacher. I don't see her in the corporate world. She is not competitive. She also loves homemaking activities like sewing, cooking, etc. She's smarter than my son (who is also very smart), but she just has a different personality.
You are correct, and I have a degree in computer science. I was originally a chemical engineering major, and there were very few women in that degree. Computer science had more women in it than chemical engineering, but we were still the minority.
Please tell me how to get a part-time job with my engineering degree. I am looking for part-time work, and I don't even know where to begin.
What do you do? One of my daughters has speech problems, can't spell, and is slow at reading. However, she is great at math!!!!!!!! I'm thinking she would make a great accountant. She loves money and math.
manpower.com, kellygirl.com, addecco.com, monster.com like everybody else... manpower will prolly be closest to where you live though.
And I'm up against women too, every chance I get.
I don't know what they're talking about. Women tend to be attracted to the life sciences. If you look at the numbers of women in medical school or in doctoral programs in the biological sciences, or if you look at the citations in major journals, you'll see a lot of women. Women like studying living things; it's in our genes. Not many of us like rocks, physics, and math (though my cousin does physics at a major university).
Many women also don't do as well with spacial relationships than men do, so we are also less attracted to chemistry and physics.
I do think expectations have something to do with it. I know families in which there are very, very bright, talented girls who are sincerely interested in the sciences and would like to be physicians or researchers, but are actively discouraged by less-educated, unsupportive parents.
This reminds me of the immortal words of Brother Dave Gardner:
"If you're against women you're for them, and if you're for them you're against them."
My wife hates math, science and engineering. I must be preventing her from liking these subjects, so I must be sexist...
I think elementary teachers (don't have experience with older teachers yet) are also not very supportive of boys or girls that are good in math and science.
Is she dyslexic? My husbands math teacher is a mild dyslexic.
women do make up over 50% of the population.
This cannot possibly be true. Freepers on Crevo threads have assured me that Scientists are TOTALLY objective and only care about facts and truth. They have no bias. They are not driven by emotion or animosity. They are, apparently, all like Commander Data. This must be a bogus study.
My mother in law got a degree in mathamatics, and was a software engineer, she just got a promotion into management (she is Korean by the way). My little sister works in computer networking and security, and has become the go-to woman in her department (she hasn't even worked there a year) She doesn't have a degree, but has military experience(not korean). And my cousin-in-law also works in IT (not korean). I know lots of women who have careers in computers. I am a college student and have meet lots of women interested in hard science. I had a chemist in my economics class. And half my integral calculus class were women. (I got an A!!! Who says dyslexics can't do math!) And my husband's math teacher is a woman is working on getting her PHD in mathmatics.
Yes.
LOL, owned
Or finance or economics, maybe. My (limited) experience with accounting is that it really doesn't require much math--it's more about organization and rules, which are really a different sort of skill. Anyone seriously interested in math would probably be bored.
I am also a dyslexic. It runs in my family. Some of the most inovative thinkers have some form of what people think of as a learning disablity. I don't think of it as a disablity, but as a different way of looking at things and processing information.
Wasn't she the one who jumped off a building after getting caught giving her "wife" a high paying, do nothing job?
software engineers are glorified programmers (nothing wrong with that), and math degrees are not science.
Women stay away from the non-life sciences and engineering in droves, they are not as suited for it, nor as interested. Women have the luxury of choosing majors based on interest and passing fancy (media studies and art history majors for example, are almost all women or gay men). Men tend to major in areas that relate directy to income.
yep, after demanding $600,000 worth of improvements to the free 2,680-square-foot home given to her by UC Santa Cruz, (which included a new fence for her dogs, new wiring, speakers, amplifier and CD player for a built-in sound system and dozens of others perks), Denise Denton also hired her girlfriend, Gretchen Kalonji - a former University of Washington professor of materials science, into a $192,000 UC management position. UC also provided Kalonji, then Denton's partner of seven years, a housing assistance allowance of up to $50,000.
The media discovered how deeply she had pushed her snout into the public trough and was running stories about it, so she took a weeks "leave of absence" (read: suspended pending investigation) and leaped off The Paramount Hotel.
How appropriate that this report was dedicated to a Greedy, Grasping, Materialistic, Feminist-Lebsian-Academic Hack Who Got Caught. Makes you wonder how many simultaneous levels of Hell she is burning in...
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