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N.J. court tells police limits on car searches don't apply to homes
Star-Ledger Staff ^ | Thursday, September 21, 2006 | BY ROBERT SCHWANEBERG

Posted on 09/21/2006 3:53:20 PM PDT by Focault's Pendulum

In New Jersey, one's home is not one's castle after all. The real castle, it turns out, is the car.

The New Jersey Supreme Court ruled 4-3 yesterday that police do not need a reason to ask permission to search someone's home.

The same court four years ago issued rules saying police must have a good reason before asking motorists if they can search their cars.

Yesterday the court said the rules for cars -- which prohibit police from asking motorists if they can conduct a search unless they have "a reasonable and articulable suspicion" of criminal activity -- are designed specifically to combat racial profiling on the state's highways and do not apply to searches of homes.

(Excerpt) Read more at nj.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 4a; 4thamendment; blackrobedthugs; blackrobedtyrants; bozoronewjersey; constitutionalchaos; constitutioninexile; downtheshore; fourthamendment; freekinjersey; gardenstate; gardenstateparkway; govwatch; judicialoligarchy; libertarians; newjersey; nj; njtp; propertyrights; racialprofiling; search; searchandseizure; seizure; sopranos; thegardenstate; thesopranos; whatexit
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This appears to be a rather convoluted ruling...but what the hell...I live here..I should be used to it by now.

To read the article on NJ.COM it will ask you for zip code, age and gender.(yeah, I told the truth!) Nothing personal but it does set a cookie....easily deleted in Tools/Options. cookie is nj.com

1 posted on 09/21/2006 3:53:21 PM PDT by Focault's Pendulum
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To: Focault's Pendulum

http://www.bugmenot.com/view/nj.com


2 posted on 09/21/2006 3:55:10 PM PDT by Smogger (It's the WOT Stupid)
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To: Focault's Pendulum
A judge found Domicz invited the detectives in out of the rain and eventually signed a form giving them permission to search his house.

Well duh.

3 posted on 09/21/2006 3:59:44 PM PDT by steveo (ADVERTISEMENT)
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To: Focault's Pendulum

This would be the same Kangaroo Court that said that the 'RATS and only the 'RATS can replace candidates after filing deadlines at will. I'm not the least bit surprised, and won't exactly be shocked (but I will be shocked, SHOCKED) when they do the same thing to the cars.


4 posted on 09/21/2006 3:59:57 PM PDT by steveegg (Let's make the deeply-saddened Head KOmmie deeply soddened in Nov. - deny the 'RATs the election)
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To: Focault's Pendulum
The New Jersey Supreme Court ruled 4-3 yesterday that police do not need a reason to ask permission to search someone's home.

In some little cubicle down at ACLU Headquarters,a lawyer is wetting his/her/its pants right now.

5 posted on 09/21/2006 4:00:31 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative ("An empty limousine pulled up and Hillary Clinton got out")
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To: Focault's Pendulum
The New Jersey Supreme Court ruled 4-3 yesterday that police do not need a reason to ask permission to search someone's home.

The police need a warrant before they can enter the premises. If you invite them inside, all bets are off. When a police officer asks if they can step inside my home, I politely decline and step outside to speak with them.

6 posted on 09/21/2006 4:03:01 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Focault's Pendulum
I was pulled over two days ago in Tennessee for speeding. The officer gave me my ticket (after a long delay) and asked if I had any weapons or drugs in the vehicle. I said no. He asked if it were okay if he searched. I said no. He then insisted on having his dog walk around the outside of the vehicle, after which he said that something was indeed found and another unit was on the way to assist him.

He ordered me out of the car, searched me, and proceeded to search the vehicle. This took him about 30 minutes. Upon finding nothing he said I was free to go.

I was irate. I pulled over for the smug bastard for speeding. I cooperated with him and was very pleasant. Yet he insisted on searching my vehicle for drugs and kept me on the side of the highway for more than an hour. When he was finished I commented that he may need to have his dog checked. He smirked and drove off. I suspect his dog "found something" in order to justify a further search.
7 posted on 09/21/2006 4:03:30 PM PDT by Jaysun (Idiot Muslims. They're just dying to have sex orgies.)
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To: steveegg
Actually I think the knock/hello can we come in...has shot the hell out of probable cause.

I think there's something in the Constitution about unlawful search and seizure. The last two paragraphs intimate that such coercive tactics approach the line.

8 posted on 09/21/2006 4:05:26 PM PDT by Focault's Pendulum
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: Jaysun

Shelby County?

BTW, DO NOT SPEED IN TN.


10 posted on 09/21/2006 4:07:20 PM PDT by dontpethesweatythings (Is the '06 election season over yet???)
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To: steveegg

Can NJ Democrats replace their soon to be indicted candidate with Hugo Chavez? He would seem to be a natural there.


11 posted on 09/21/2006 4:07:56 PM PDT by Morgan in Denver
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To: Myrddin
The police need a warrant before they can enter the premises. If you invite them inside, all bets are off. When a police officer asks if they can step inside my home, I politely decline and step outside to speak with them.

This ruling only says they don't have to have a reason to ASK to search. It doesn't say they don't have to have a warrent to search without permission. Just refuse if they ask. Don't invite them inside, don't sign any agreements to allow searches. IOW, protect your constitutional rights as you should always have been doing.

There is nothing particularly sinister about this ruling.

12 posted on 09/21/2006 4:08:33 PM PDT by calex59 (Hillary Clinton is dumber than a one eyed monkey with a brain tumor(credit to Harley69))
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To: Jaysun
I think I've read that there's at least one financial incentive for police to find drugs in a situation like yours.I think they get to keep the car or something like that.

If I'm correct (and any lawyer who might read this will set me straight if I'm not) you've got your motive for the search,IMO.

13 posted on 09/21/2006 4:09:34 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative ("An empty limousine pulled up and Hillary Clinton got out")
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To: dontpethesweatythings
Shelby County?
BTW, DO NOT SPEED IN TN.

I don't know. It was in Fayetteville, just across the Alabama state line. I did speed and I took my ticket, but beyond that this was absurd.

14 posted on 09/21/2006 4:11:27 PM PDT by Jaysun (Idiot Muslims. They're just dying to have sex orgies.)
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To: Myrddin

You are right. Everybody view the video on youtube.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3NmC5wHfCdM

Flex your rights. The ACLU isn't completely worthless, they have done a couple of useful things.

nj.com also sets a javascript string in the browser cache for tracking.


15 posted on 09/21/2006 4:12:14 PM PDT by spudsmaki
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To: ps2
Isn't it amazing that out of the abudance of political correctness the court's ruling effectively hinders the war on terror...preventing the search of those potentially moving dangerous and or lethal material?

If the 4th Amendment has any meaning at all then yes, some bad guys are going to get away. I'd rather accept that risk than live in a police state.

16 posted on 09/21/2006 4:13:41 PM PDT by ThinkDifferent
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To: Focault's Pendulum

I hate to say this (don’s asbestos underwear) but I agree with the court on this.

They should be able to ASK (politely).

May we search your house, pretty please with cream and sugar on it?

You should be able to ask for anything (this is a free country) for example:

Q. can I have all of your money please?
A. No, get away from me!

See asking is not the problem, demanding, not asking but just doing, those I have a problem with.

(Any resemblance to humor in this post was entirely intentional)


17 posted on 09/21/2006 4:13:57 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: Gay State Conservative
I think I've read that there's at least one financial incentive for police to find drugs in a situation like yours.I think they get to keep the car or something like that.

If I'm correct (and any lawyer who might read this will set me straight if I'm not) you've got your motive for the search,IMO.


If that's true then I'm perfectly willing and able to sue the sons a bitches to get it changed. An incentive? Give me a damned break. I was in suit and tie with a baby seat in the rear. I'm as far as one can get from a typical dope user / pusher.
18 posted on 09/21/2006 4:14:01 PM PDT by Jaysun (Idiot Muslims. They're just dying to have sex orgies.)
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To: Jaysun

What an a$$hole LEO. Cops think they can get away with anything, and unfortunately, too often they do. That jerk was just making your life miserable because you declined his request to search your car, pure and simple.


19 posted on 09/21/2006 4:14:21 PM PDT by ladyrustic
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To: ladyrustic
What an a$$hole LEO. Cops think they can get away with anything, and unfortunately, too often they do. That jerk was just making your life miserable because you declined his request to search your car, pure and simple.

And what is my recourse? I'd spend thousands to set the bastard straight.
20 posted on 09/21/2006 4:15:34 PM PDT by Jaysun (Idiot Muslims. They're just dying to have sex orgies.)
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To: Focault's Pendulum
The New Jersey Supreme Court ruled 4-3 yesterday that police do not need a reason to ask permission to search someone's home.

So the New Jersey judicial system is now advocating writs of assistance? My God how we have fallen.

21 posted on 09/21/2006 4:15:38 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Property tax is feudalism. Income taxes are armed robbery of the minority by the majority.)
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To: Myrddin
If you invite them inside, all bets are off. When a police officer asks if they can step inside my home, I politely decline and step outside to speak with them.

Vampires are like that too.

22 posted on 09/21/2006 4:16:28 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Property tax is feudalism. Income taxes are armed robbery of the minority by the majority.)
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To: Focault's Pendulum

I live here too, in the People's Republic of Zoo Jersey . The corruption in this state is worst in the country . The police act like the Gestapo. The actions of law enforcement in New Jersey have given me a bad taste and a total lack of respect for the job they do. BTW, they don't PROTECT you from harm, they only TRY to find out who harmed you.


23 posted on 09/21/2006 4:16:28 PM PDT by Renegade
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To: Focault's Pendulum
The New Jersey Supreme Court ruled 4-3 yesterday that police do not need a reason to ask permission to search someone's home.

It's worth stressing that the police still needs to ask permission unless they have a warrant.

All in all, this decision actually makes sense, unlike most other decisions by our crazy supreme court.
24 posted on 09/21/2006 4:20:14 PM PDT by MrNJ
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To: Jaysun
When he was finished I commented that he may need to have his dog checked. He smirked and drove off. I suspect his dog "found something" in order to justify a further search.

Happens all the time. You will NOT successfully balk a police officer if he really wants to screw with you. The best you can hope for is he's just an @sshole, not a corrupt @sshole.

In that case, you're going to need a VERY good lawyer and a lot of cash.
25 posted on 09/21/2006 4:20:17 PM PDT by Dr.Zoidberg (Mohammedism - Bringing you only the best of the 6th century for fourteen hundred years.)
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To: calex59
There is nothing particularly sinister about this ruling.

Oh yes there is. NJ Supreme Court has made it official...

This is a two edged sword.

The ruling was a battle about police accused of racial profiling by making stops on the NJ Turnpike.

As a sop to the liberals (What??!!?? NJ Liberal!!??) this has the opportunity to turn any race baiter into an unpaid informant on their neighbor.

There are wheels within wheels on this ruling..and please believe me..I don't spin conspiracies.

26 posted on 09/21/2006 4:22:10 PM PDT by Focault's Pendulum
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To: Jaysun
If that's true then I'm perfectly willing and able to sue the sons a bitches to get it changed. An incentive? Give me a damned break. I was in suit and tie with a baby seat in the rear. I'm as far as one can get from a typical dope user / pusher.

Rest assured that I'm not defending what they did.All I'm doing is suggesting why they might have done it.Of course,if my assumption about the financial incentive is wrong,then my theory goes out the window.

Never having been a cop,I haven't the foggiest idea of how they think.

27 posted on 09/21/2006 4:24:17 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative ("An empty limousine pulled up and Hillary Clinton got out")
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To: DelphiUser

When police ask you to do something while you are being detained most people don't consider that just a request. They consider it an order.

After all you are being detained against your will by someone in a uniform wearing a gun. (Color Of Law)


28 posted on 09/21/2006 4:25:01 PM PDT by preacher (A government which robs from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.)
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To: Jaysun

That's the drug war for you... completely unaccountable police action where the law provides an incentive for them to steal your property.


29 posted on 09/21/2006 4:26:18 PM PDT by thoughtomator (Islam delenda est)
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To: Jaysun; Gay State Conservative

It's called civil forfeiture. Same thing that allows them to seize accused drug dealers' homes, cars, boats or other property. It doesn't require a court ruling for them to be able to do it. And, in order to get it reversed, the burden of proof is yours. All sanctioned by SCOTUS, of course.


30 posted on 09/21/2006 4:29:31 PM PDT by MarcusTulliusCicero
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To: Focault's Pendulum
The New Jersey Supreme Court ruled 4-3 yesterday that police do not need a reason to ask permission to search someone's home.

"The Constitution protects against unreasonable searches and seizures and against coerced waivers of constitutional rights," Albin wrote. "It does not disallow voluntary cooperation with the police." >>>

I guess if you're a criminal and are dumb enough to sign a waiver for the cops to come in and search, then you should get arrested.
31 posted on 09/21/2006 4:29:40 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, geese, algae)
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To: Dr.Zoidberg

> In that case, you're going to need a VERY good lawyer and a lot of cash.

Just don't have the cash with you. They may take it in a "civil forfeiture".


32 posted on 09/21/2006 4:31:55 PM PDT by dinasour (Pajamahadeen and member of the Head SnowFlake Committee)
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To: Coleus
Wallace added that the Supreme Court of Washington state declared in 1998 that "any knock and talk is coercive to some degree" and required police to warn occupants they have a right to deny the police entry. Wallace added that the Supreme Court of Washington state declared in 1998 that "any knock and talk is coercive to some degree" and required police to warn occupants they have a right to deny the police entry./

Albin countered that unlike a motorist stopped on the road and threatened with a traffic citation, someone who is at home "can send the police away without fear of immediate repercussions."

Buckman said having five detectives show up on one's doorstep is "every bit if not more coercive than a car search." When courts allow that, he added, "we've got a problem with the privacy of our homes."

Albin countered that unlike a motorist stopped on the road and threatened with a traffic citation, someone who is at home "can send the police away without fear of immediate repercussions."

Buckman said having five detectives show up on one's doorstep is "every bit if not more coercive than a car search." When courts allow that, he added, "we've got a problem with the privacy of our homes."

33 posted on 09/21/2006 4:37:22 PM PDT by Focault's Pendulum
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To: Jaysun
He then insisted on having his dog walk around the outside of the vehicle, after which he said that something was indeed found and another unit was on the way to assist him.

"But if you do not have anything to hide, why complain". The drug warriors will be here shortly to beat you down and show the error of your ways. BTW, in the event that you are so detained in the future and requested to get out of your vehicle; may I suggest that you ask to go before a magistrate. The time involved is about the same. And your name does not get "in the book". Every NCIC check from this point forward will reflect your misfortune. Unless you take action at your own expense. Good luck.

34 posted on 09/21/2006 4:38:28 PM PDT by ARealMothersSonForever (We shall never forget the atrocities of September 11, 2001.)
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To: dinasour
Just don't have the cash with you. They may take it in a "civil forfeiture".

No MAY to it. If you have more money than the cop thinks you deserve to have, he's taking it. You can bet on that.
35 posted on 09/21/2006 4:40:33 PM PDT by Dr.Zoidberg (Mohammedism - Bringing you only the best of the 6th century for fourteen hundred years.)
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To: Focault's Pendulum

As long as they still need a warrent. Asking is not the same as searching. I didn't want to read the whole ruling so maybe I missed something. However, if the ruling only says they can aks without a reason, and they could always ask, and not SEARCH without a reason or a warrent, then it isn't too bad. As I said, maybe I missed something. Personally, I never give permission for search of either my house or car.


36 posted on 09/21/2006 4:42:54 PM PDT by calex59 (Hillary Clinton is dumber than a one eyed monkey with a brain tumor(credit to Harley69))
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To: Coleus
I guess if you're a criminal and are dumb enough to sign a waiver for the cops to come in and search, then you should get arrested.

Two words. "Implied consent". May you never have to deal with them. Yet it seems that everyone that encounters law enforcement is guilty until they can prove otherwise, for some folks.

37 posted on 09/21/2006 4:45:17 PM PDT by ARealMothersSonForever (We shall never forget the atrocities of September 11, 2001.)
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To: Myrddin

The police entered my house when I had them called on me for having an outside fireplace. My front door was unlocked and I saw the lights from their cars so I walked to the front of my house. There I met with the fire capt and he and I walked thru my back gate. I thought the cop would follow but nope he walked thru my house, checked out my sons rooms and then walked down my back steps to the backyard. I asked him what right he had to come into my house and he said I am allowed to walk into your house as your front door was unlocked!! I didnt get in trouble for having the fireplace and I made sure to get a letter from the fire capt saying so as my neighbors hate my fireplace. I wanted to ask for the badge # of the cop but as we have 3 HD's in the garage I figured we would be targeted each time we rode. Now I keep all doors locked.


38 posted on 09/21/2006 4:46:10 PM PDT by pandoraou812 ( barbaric with zero tolerance and dilligaf?)
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To: calex59
As long as they still need a warrent. Asking is not the same as searching. I didn't want to read the whole ruling so maybe I missed something. However, if the ruling only says they can aks without a reason, and they could always ask, and not SEARCH without a reason or a warrent, then it isn't too bad. As I said, maybe I missed something. Personally, I never give permission for search of either my house or car.

I'm gonna think real hard about what you just said.

39 posted on 09/21/2006 4:47:04 PM PDT by Focault's Pendulum
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To: Jaysun
"And what is my recourse? I'd spend thousands "

It's free to file an administrative complaint, or contest the ticket and complain to the judge. That keeps this behavior down.

Of course since you were "not from around here" the cop wasn't worried about that.

40 posted on 09/21/2006 4:48:19 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: Jaysun
He ordered me out of the car, searched me, and proceeded to search the vehicle. This took him about 30 minutes. Upon finding nothing he said I was free to go.

I'd certainly consider getting a lawyer. Trumped-up false dog-sniffing BS isn't probably cause - it's harassment.

41 posted on 09/21/2006 4:52:09 PM PDT by meyer (A vote for amnesty is a vote against America.)
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To: Jaysun

Standard practice in TN for out-of-state drivers. Were you on I-40? They call it the drug corridor.

They always claim the dog senses something as an excuse to search if you refuse. I agree its BS. Especially bad if you got Texas tags.


42 posted on 09/21/2006 4:52:14 PM PDT by packrat35 (guest worker/day worker=SlaveMart)
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To: Coleus
"The Constitution protects against unreasonable searches and seizures and against coerced waivers of constitutional rights,"

Let's think Tax assessors

43 posted on 09/21/2006 4:53:28 PM PDT by Focault's Pendulum
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To: Jaysun
And what is my recourse? I'd spend thousands to set the bastard straight.

Sitting on a jury is free (well, you do lose time and pay). But when the cop is on the witness stand, or better yet the defendant, there's your chance for revenge.

I'm really surprised that cops go out of their way to piss off the kind of people who sit on juries.

44 posted on 09/21/2006 4:54:03 PM PDT by JoeFromSidney (My book is out. Read excerpts at www.thejusticecooperative.com)
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To: Sabramerican

Thread of interest ping.


45 posted on 09/21/2006 4:58:41 PM PDT by Thinkin' Gal (As it was in the days of NO...)
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To: Dr.Zoidberg
Happens all the time. You will NOT successfully balk a police officer if he really wants to screw with you. The best you can hope for is he's just an @sshole, not a corrupt @sshole.

In that case, you're going to need a VERY good lawyer and a lot of cash.


In terms of lawyers I've the best the SE has to offer. In terms of cash I have perhaps $150,000 for this prick. I'm not sure he's worth more.
46 posted on 09/21/2006 5:00:15 PM PDT by Jaysun (Idiot Muslims. They're just dying to have sex orgies.)
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To: Gay State Conservative
Rest assured that I'm not defending what they did.All I'm doing is suggesting why they might have done it.Of course,if my assumption about the financial incentive is wrong,then my theory goes out the window.

Never having been a cop,I haven't the foggiest idea of how they think.


Understood. Some are simply overcome with a sense of "power".
47 posted on 09/21/2006 5:01:40 PM PDT by Jaysun (Idiot Muslims. They're just dying to have sex orgies.)
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To: packrat35
They always claim the dog senses something

That is the truth. Something that most US citizens are unaware of is that the dogs are trained in a foreign language. I posit that if the judge or magistrate does not speak German or Czech, he does not know what the dog is hitting on. Therefore, the handler is the arbiter of justice on the roadside; and in your house. How can a citizen be reasonably expected to interview (face the accusation) of a dog that is trained in a foreign language?

48 posted on 09/21/2006 5:01:57 PM PDT by ARealMothersSonForever (We shall never forget the atrocities of September 11, 2001.)
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To: MarcusTulliusCicero
It's called civil forfeiture. Same thing that allows them to seize accused drug dealers' homes, cars, boats or other property. It doesn't require a court ruling for them to be able to do it. And, in order to get it reversed, the burden of proof is yours. All sanctioned by SCOTUS, of course.

The SCOTUS should be burn to rubble in my rather irrational and humble view.
49 posted on 09/21/2006 5:03:40 PM PDT by Jaysun (Idiot Muslims. They're just dying to have sex orgies.)
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To: ARealMothersSonForever
"But if you do not have anything to hide, why complain". The drug warriors will be here shortly to beat you down and show the error of your ways. BTW, in the event that you are so detained in the future and requested to get out of your vehicle; may I suggest that you ask to go before a magistrate. The time involved is about the same. And your name does not get "in the book". Every NCIC check from this point forward will reflect your misfortune. Unless you take action at your own expense. Good luck.

Thanks for the advice. I hope to never have to use it.
50 posted on 09/21/2006 5:04:44 PM PDT by Jaysun (Idiot Muslims. They're just dying to have sex orgies.)
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