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The Truth About Mohammed... From the Book That CAIR Didn't Want to Be Sold!
1912 | Rev. J.L. Menezes

Posted on 09/21/2006 8:24:09 PM PDT by Pyro7480

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This is a "sequel" of sorts to my thread from last year, The Truth About Islam... From the Book That CAIR Didn't Want to Be Sold!.

I finally started reading the book again, and as I flipped through it earlier this week, I stumbled upon this excellent passage.

Here's the full press release from CAIR about the book the passage is take from:

What CAIR says about The Life and Religion of Mohammmed

"...an virulently Islamophobic book"
"...anti-Muslim screed [which] is the literary equivalent of ‘The Protocols of the Elders of Zion'"

1 posted on 09/21/2006 8:24:10 PM PDT by Pyro7480
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To: Pyro7480

BTTT


2 posted on 09/21/2006 8:26:45 PM PDT by lunarbicep (Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. - Mark Twain)
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From Conservative Book Club: The Life and Religion of Mohammed by J.L. Menezes

Fr. J.L. Menezes knew Islam up close: as a priest in India, he devoted his priestly life to introducing that nation's tens of millions of Muslims to Christianity. With this life of Mohammed, he left us the record of his appeals: a frank, honest, and exhaustively researched exploration of the life of the "prophet" of Islam, the development and contents of the Koran, and an introduction to various Muslim sects.

Working from the earliest Islamic sources, Fr. Menezes provides a complete account of Mohammed's life, from his days as a simple merchant to his triumphs as a leader of armies and revered prophet. Menezes delved so deeply into his subject that he was even able to describe Mohammed's physical appearance. He explains why Mohammed couldn't possibly be a true prophet, and reveals the true sources of his "revelations."

Fr. Menezes could be writing about today's Muslim terrorists when he explains that "Mohammed posed as the apostle of God, the seal of the prophets; as the destroyer of idolatry; as preacher of one true God, and the reformer of morals: while his life is marked by innumerable marriages; and great licentiousness, deeds of rapine, warfare, conquests, unmerciful butcheries, all the time invoking God's holy name to sanction his evil deeds, ordering prayers and alms deeds and at the same time propagating Islam everywhere by fire and sword."

Turning to the Koran, Fr. Menezes delineates the distinctive teachings of Islam, explaining the elements of the Muslim holy book that make it so difficult for Muslims to convert to Christianity -- and showing how the Koran, when read honestly and without Islamic preconceptions, nonetheless depends upon and leads to Christianity.

Fr. Menezes concludes with an "appeal to candor and common sense," inviting Muslims to think critically about their religion, and to embrace Christ instead. With Islam on the march everywhere and Muslims streaming into the U.S. in record numbers, the candor, common sense, and solid Christian faith of this book are needed more than ever.

3 posted on 09/21/2006 8:27:00 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Pyro7480

Nut job


4 posted on 09/21/2006 8:28:23 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (The Internet is the samizdat of liberty..)
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To: Pyro7480

bump


5 posted on 09/21/2006 8:28:31 PM PDT by VOA
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To: Siobhan; Maeve; Dajjal; NYer; vpintheak; ncountylee; Jeff Gordon; softwarecreator; jimfree; ...
Ping! to the "sequel" to The Truth About Islam... From the Book That CAIR Didn't Want to Be Sold!
6 posted on 09/21/2006 8:30:16 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: TASMANIANRED

Who? Mohammed?


7 posted on 09/21/2006 8:30:41 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Pyro7480

Ah, well now. Don`t be too hard on ol` Mo. Don`t judge him on results. Like liberals, Mo had "good intentions".


8 posted on 09/21/2006 8:31:15 PM PDT by AngrySpud (Behold, I am The Anti-Crust ... Anti-Hillary)
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To: Pyro7480

Who else....

Certainly not you...my apologies if you took it that way..


9 posted on 09/21/2006 8:33:10 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (The Internet is the samizdat of liberty..)
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To: TASMANIANRED

No, that's not the way I was thinking. ;-) I thought you were referring to the author of the book I excerpted from.


10 posted on 09/21/2006 8:33:56 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Pyro7480

Watch dat Zem Zem well stuff.


11 posted on 09/21/2006 8:35:13 PM PDT by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: Pyro7480

BTTT


12 posted on 09/21/2006 8:35:51 PM PDT by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
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To: Pyro7480

Bump


13 posted on 09/21/2006 8:38:47 PM PDT by Enterprise (Let's not enforce laws that are already on the books, let's just write new laws we won't enforce.)
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To: Pyro7480
...his treachery...especially pernicious is the Islamic Principal of Taquilly (sp?) as attested to by several scholars on Glenn Beck's program - the idea that it is perfectly fine to misrepresent and lie about anything if it is done in defense of the Islamic faith - doesn't bode well for any attempts at diplomacy and negotiation with any of the extremist Muslims......
14 posted on 09/21/2006 8:44:06 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: Pyro7480

The author of the book is a speaker of truth..

By their fruits you will know them.

Big Bad Mo was either a serious schizophrenic or seduced by Satan..Depends on if you like the mental health angle or the spiritual one.


15 posted on 09/21/2006 8:51:15 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (The Internet is the samizdat of liberty..)
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To: Pyro7480
his injunctions forbidding the use of liquor and other spirits as well as of the practice of usury to his followers, really distinguish Mahommed [sic] honourably as a great religious teacher;

What's wrong with usury and drinking booze?

16 posted on 09/21/2006 8:52:12 PM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: Intolerant in NJ
You're referring to Taqiyya.
17 posted on 09/21/2006 8:59:29 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Pyro7480

Yeah, that's the one...nasty stuff....


18 posted on 09/21/2006 9:07:31 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: Pyro7480
Here's the book you *really* want to read. It should be read by every American. The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) (Paperback) by Robert Spencer (Author)
19 posted on 09/21/2006 9:10:14 PM PDT by WesG (Without geometry, life would be pointless.)
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To: Pyro7480

Not only that, but muslims also spend a lot of their day figuring out how to poop and pee exactly how Mohammad did.


20 posted on 09/21/2006 9:10:57 PM PDT by tkathy (Einstein: Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.)
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To: Pyro7480

"the superstitious practices he ordained to be practised there, his veneration of the black stone at Kaaba; his superstitious belief in the water of Zem Zem well,"

Like turning wine and bread into flesh and blood, then eating it ?
Like creating golden crosses, then kissing them ?
Like the superstitious belief in the water of Lourdes ?

But at least this guy is from only 80 years ago, not 600.


21 posted on 09/21/2006 9:16:10 PM PDT by RS ("I took the drugs because I liked them and I found excuses to take them, so I'm not weaseling.")
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To: vbmoneyspender
I can't speak of Fr. Menezes' personal point-of-view on booze, since I don't know what it is, but there's nothing in Catholic teaching that forbids the moderate use of alcohol. Usury, on the other hand, has been a concern of the Catholic Church for centuries.

From Usury:

In 1745, the Catholic teaching on usury was expressed by Pope Benedict XIV in his Vix Pervenit, which strictly forbids the practice as such, although he adds that "entirely just and legitimate reasons arise to demand something over and above the amount due on the contract" - such reasons could include the risk of loss, the time value of money in the modern economy, etc.

...St. Thomas Aquinas, the leading theologian of the Catholic Church, argued charging of interest is wrong because it amounts to "double charging", charging for both the thing and the use of the thing. Aquinas said this would be morally wrong in the same way as if one sold a bottle of wine, charged for the bottle of wine, and then charged for the person using the wine to actually drink it. Similarly, one cannot charge for a piece of cake and for the eating of the piece of cake. Yet this, said Aquinas, is what usury does. Money is exchange-medium. It is used up when it is spent. To charge for the money and for its use (by spending) is to charge for the money twice as if one were to charge for a piece of cake and then make a further charge for eating it. It is also to sell time since the usurer charges, in effect, for the time that the money is in the hands of the borrower. Time, however, is not a commodity that any man can sell.

This did not, as some think, prevent investment. What it stipulated was that in order for the investor to share in the profit he must share the risk. In short he must be a joint-venturer. Simply to invest the money and expect it to be returned regardless of the success of the venture was to make money simply by having money and not by taking any risk or by doing any work or by any effort or sacrifice at all. This is usury. St Thomas quotes Aristotle as saying that "to live by usury is exceedingly unnatural". Islam likewise condemns usury. Judaism condemns it save when practised against non-Jews. St Thomas allows, however, charges for actual services provided. Thus a banker or credit-lender could charge for such actual work or effort as he did carry out e.g. any fair administrative charges. The Catholic Church, in a decree of the 5th Lateran Council (Session 10, 4 May 1515) expressly allowed such charges in respect of credit-unions run for the benefit of the poor known as "Mons Pietatis".

22 posted on 09/21/2006 9:23:32 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Pyro7480

BUMP


23 posted on 09/21/2006 9:24:43 PM PDT by SweetCaroline (....If God brings you to it - He will bring you through it.)
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To: RS
Ah, it took to post #21 to get to this objection! Even as I posted this, I thought about that possiblity.

Like turning wine and bread into flesh and blood, then eating it ?

Read John 6, and all of the Last Supper passages in the Gospels.

Like creating golden crosses, then kissing them ?

Your concern has turned up from time to time in the history of Christianity. From the perspective of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, veneration of icons is an essential part of practicing religion. The Second Council of Nicaea states, "As the sacred and life-giving cross is everywhere set up as a symbol, so also should the images of Jesus Christ, the Virgin Mary, the holy angels, as well as those of the saints and other pious and holy men be embodied in the manufacture of sacred vessels, tapestries, vestments, etc., and exhibited on the walls of churches, in the homes, and in all conspicuous places, by the roadside and everywhere, to be revered by all who might see them. For the more they are contemplated, the more they move to fervent memory of their prototypes. Therefore, it is proper to accord to them a fervent and reverent adoration, not, however, the veritable worship which, according to our faith, belongs to the Divine Being alone — for the honor accorded to the image passes over to its prototype, and whoever adores the image adores in it the reality of what is there represented."

Like the superstitious belief in the water of Lourdes ?

Catholics aren't required to believe in anything associated with the apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary at Lourdes. The Church has verified only a few of the miracles that have taken place there. But the pious use of water from Lourdes is a demonstration of a person's faith in the healing power of God that has manifested itself through the springs at Lourdes, not in the water itself.

24 posted on 09/21/2006 9:31:51 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Pyro7480

The strangest part of the cult of Islam is that every country where Islam is prevelent is a festering sh!thole that God has forsaken, yet they pray 6 times a day to a God that only blesses their land and lives with nothing but poverty, hate and violance! If this is their God, how bad can their devil really be?


25 posted on 09/21/2006 10:22:11 PM PDT by Bommer ( "If they won't listen to reason over there, just kill 'em. Nuke 'em all." - Robert Mitchum)
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To: Pyro7480; aculeus; advance_copy; aft_lizard; agincourt1415; Alamo-Girl; AlaninSA; Alkhin; ...

P.R.O.P.* Ping!

How to P*SS OFF mozzies...[It's easy - just tell the truth about their idolized false prophet moo-ham-mad!]

Another recognized religious leader heard from {Fr. Menezes} on the Religion of piss...errr peas...errr, nevermind.

Since Pope Benedict XVI quoted Byzantine Emperor Manuel Paleologus...albeit briefly

I feel it is appropriate to cite another renowned leader from the pages of history, one who had no compunctions about provoking or maligning muhammadans:

Chief Hetman Zaxarcenko

__________________________________________________

Letters written sometime between 1672 and 1680:

Sultan Mohammed IV to the Zaporozhian Cossacks:

I, the Sultan, son of Mohammed, brother of the Sun and Moon, grandson and Vice Regent of God, sovereign of all kingdoms of: Macedonia, Babylonia, and Jerusalem, of Upper and Lower Egypt; king of kings, ruler of all that exists;
extraordinary, invincible knight; constant guardian of the grave of Jesus Christ; trustee of God himself; hope and comfort of Moslems, confusion and great Protector of Christians, command you, the Zaporozhian Cossacks, to surrender to me voluntarily and without any kind of resistance, and don't permit yourselves to trouble me with your attacks!
Turkish Sultan Mohammed

Zaporozhians to the Turkish Sultan:

You Turkish Satan, brother and comrade of the damned devil and secretary to Lucifer himself! What the hell kind of knight are you?

The devil shits and you and your army swallow. You aren't fit to have the sons of Christians under you; we aren't afraid of your army, and we'll fight you on land and sea.

You Babylonian busboy, Macedonian mechanic, Jerusalem beer brewer, Alexandrian goat skinner, swineherd of Upper and Lower Egypt, Armenian pig, Tatar goat, Kamenets hangman, Podolian thief, grandson of the Evil Serpent himself, and buffoon of all the world and the netherworld, fool of our God, swine's snout, mare's asshole, butcher's dog, unbaptized brow, may the devil steam your ass!

That's how the Cossacks answer you, you nasty glob of spit!

You're unfit to rule true Christians.

We don't know the date because we don't have a calendar, the moon is in the sky, and the year is in a book, and the day is the same with us as with you, so go kiss our butt!

Chief Hetman Zaxarcenko with all the Zaporozhian Host

___________________________________________________________


Quite frankly, this seems just as current, timely, relevant accurate, and perfectly appropriate today as it must surely have been three hundred and thirty - odd years ago.

I cannot add a thing to any of it except -

"AMEN!" & "What he said!"

A.A.C.

"The Final Crusade has commenced: let's get virulently anti islamic!"


26 posted on 09/21/2006 10:32:20 PM PDT by AmericanArchConservative (Armour on, Lances high, Swords out, Bows drawn, Shields front ... Eagles UP!)
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To: RS
Like the superstitious belief in the water of Lourdes ?
his superstitious belief in the water of Zem Zem well,"

Correct me if I am wrong here, but: Is not Lourdes representative of both the faith and weakness of the followers of Jesus, where as, the Zem Zem well is attributable to the weakness of Mohammad?

27 posted on 09/21/2006 10:33:16 PM PDT by Michael.SF. (Those who do not know Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. They are the witless." –Khomeni)
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To: Pyro7480

For later


28 posted on 09/21/2006 11:33:42 PM PDT by Tzimisce (How Would Mohammed Vote? Hillary for President! www.dndorks.com)
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To: Pyro7480
Simply to invest the money and expect it to be returned regardless of the success of the venture was to make money simply by having money and not by taking any risk or by doing any work or by any effort or sacrifice at all. This is usury.

This is stupidity. It takes an immense lack of economic understanding to say this. I think the Church has gotten over its misunderstanding of what a person lending money risks. Muslims have not.

29 posted on 09/21/2006 11:55:43 PM PDT by Defiant (There is no god but AOL, and Muhammad uses Messenger.)
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To: AmericanArchConservative
I, the Sultan, son of Mohammed, brother of the Sun and Moon, grandson and Vice Regent of God, sovereign of all kingdoms of: Macedonia, Babylonia, and Jerusalem, of Upper and Lower Egypt; king of kings, ruler of all that exists;

Obviously a fake and forgery; he doesn't mention "Palestine"/"Palestina"!

Need I add a 'sarcasm" tag, for the sake of the illiterati?

30 posted on 09/22/2006 12:02:00 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Islam: a Satanically Transmitted Disease, spread by unprotected intimate contact with the Koranus.)
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To: Michael.SF.
Correct me if I am wrong here, but: Is not Lourdes representative of both the faith and weakness of the followers of Jesus, where as, the Zem Zem well is attributable to the weakness of Mohammad?

Jesus' admonition "....do not cast your pearls before swine"; comes to mind.

31 posted on 09/22/2006 12:08:39 AM PDT by Mogollon
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To: Mogollon
Jesus' admonition "....do not cast your pearls before swine"; comes to mind.

Here's an admonition that's just as appropriate:

Matthew 5: 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.

32 posted on 09/22/2006 12:17:23 AM PDT by Grim
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To: ApplegateRanch

Tsk! [This is obviously a plot by Karl Rove.]

What - you think this is DU, DNC, seeBS or something?

ROTFLM*O!

A.A.C.


33 posted on 09/22/2006 12:18:25 AM PDT by AmericanArchConservative (Armour on, Lances high, Swords out, Bows drawn, Shields front ... Eagles UP!)
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To: Pyro7480
CAIR Director Ibrahim Hooper: “The National Review must clarify its position on Islamophobic hate speech and offer a public apology for promoting a book that so viciously attacks the faith of one-fifth of the world's population.”

Must? Must of else what? Let me guess.

34 posted on 09/22/2006 4:09:50 AM PDT by Jeff Gordon (History convinces me that bad government results from too much government. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Bommer
every country where Islam is prevalent is a festering sh!thole


This is literally true...I'm told that the moment you leave Israel to the surrounding countries, the first thing you notice is the stink that permeates these places.
35 posted on 09/22/2006 4:46:56 AM PDT by dagoofyfoot
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To: RS
"the superstitious practices he ordained to be practised there, his veneration of the black stone at Kaaba; his superstitious belief in the water of Zem Zem well,"

Like turning wine and bread into flesh and blood

There's physical evidence for that, at least.

Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano.

Even Jesus granted that His saying that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood was "a hard saying," a saying at which most of his disciples turned away from Him. Perhaps that's why He's provided the above-mentioned public miracle.

36 posted on 09/22/2006 4:56:12 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Pyro7480; Salem; backhoe; Dark Skies

Bump & Ping


37 posted on 09/22/2006 6:27:22 AM PDT by EdReform (Protect our 2nd Amendment Rights - Join the NRA today - www.nra.org)
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To: dagoofyfoot
**This is literally true...I'm told that the moment you leave Israel to the surrounding countries, the first thing you notice is the stink that permeates these places.***

One of my friends was in the Navy. He said you could smell Pakistan while out to sea before you even saw land.
Others have concurred this statement.
38 posted on 09/22/2006 7:02:18 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar ((Democrats have never found a fight they couldn't run from...Ann Coulter))
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

To: vbmoneyspender

Boooooooooooze


41 posted on 09/22/2006 7:11:46 AM PDT by wastedyears (Give me Liberty or give me DEATH)
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To: TASMANIANRED

Morning Tas...;-)

I vote for the spiritual one.


42 posted on 09/22/2006 7:17:41 AM PDT by LadyPilgrim ((Sealed my Pardon with HIS BLOOD!!! Hallelujah!!! What a Savior))
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To: Pyro7480

I still don't understand why they call him a Prophet.


43 posted on 09/22/2006 7:18:59 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: sandyeggo

I'm gonna order that book when I get home from work.


44 posted on 09/22/2006 7:37:56 AM PDT by wastedyears (Give me Liberty or give me DEATH)
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To: vbmoneyspender

"What's wrong with usury and drinking booze?"

Nothing. Some people don't have the self control to manage their booze or their finances so some religions ban them. They are religions for lazy stupid people.


45 posted on 09/22/2006 7:47:41 AM PDT by monday
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To: AmericanArchConservative

LOL!! Well said indeed.

Thanks AAC!


46 posted on 09/22/2006 7:52:53 AM PDT by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade ™ © ®)
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To: Pyro7480
"such reasons could include the risk of loss, the time value of money in the modern economy, etc."

Which means there is nothing wrong with Usury because money usable now is always more valuable than money usable tomorrow, and no one who lends money can ever be sure it will be paid back.

"This did not, as some think, prevent investment. What it stipulated was that in order for the investor to share in the profit he must share the risk. In short he must be a joint-venturer."

What does the partner who does not invest money in the project risk? Nothing. Therefore, according to your argument he is not be entitled to any of the profit.
All I can say is St. Thomas Aquinas was a world class moron.
47 posted on 09/22/2006 8:02:39 AM PDT by monday
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To: Pyro7480

I'm pretty sure that a Muslim could come up with the same sort of explainations for their practices that Rev. J.L. Menezes is complaining about.

So I'm glad you illustrated the point.


48 posted on 09/22/2006 8:15:15 AM PDT by RS ("I took the drugs because I liked them and I found excuses to take them, so I'm not weaseling.")
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To: Pyro7480
Could it be that it might be considered a form of gambling ?

You are placing your money down, and based on events beyond your control you have the possibility of a profit.

You expect a higher payoff ( interest ) if the risk of losing is greater.
49 posted on 09/22/2006 8:33:14 AM PDT by RS ("I took the drugs because I liked them and I found excuses to take them, so I'm not weaseling.")
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To: Aquinasfan

If it's not a symbolic act, then does it not suggest the days when superstitious savages would cut out the hearts of their enemies to eat them and gain their strength ?


50 posted on 09/22/2006 10:34:15 AM PDT by RS ("I took the drugs because I liked them and I found excuses to take them, so I'm not weaseling.")
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