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How the Atomic Bomb Saved 4,000,000 Lives
Omaha World Herald | November, 1987 | Davis

Posted on 09/25/2006 1:20:44 PM PDT by pabianice

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1 posted on 09/25/2006 1:20:46 PM PDT by pabianice
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To: pabianice

Uh-huh. But it might in the future take 4 billion lives. Particularly if it gets into the wrong hands, which I think may already have happened.


2 posted on 09/25/2006 1:22:19 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: pabianice

Link? Who is "Davis"?


3 posted on 09/25/2006 1:22:40 PM PDT by TChris (The United Nations is suffering from delusions of relevance.)
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To: pabianice
Hurricane Katrina saved thousands of lives.
4 posted on 09/25/2006 1:28:23 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: TChris

More importantly the BOMB was a message that instantly said, WE BEAT YOU..and THE WAR IS OVER.


5 posted on 09/25/2006 1:28:27 PM PDT by samadams2000 (Somebody important make....THE CALL!)
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To: pabianice
Make it more like 50 million lives.

http://www.danieldrezner.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=736

"JUNE 18, 1945 - When A Democracy Chose Genocide

The United States government decided on June 18, 1945, to commit genocide on Japan with poison gas if its government did not surrender after the nuclear attacks approved in the same June 18 meeting. This was discovered by military historians Norman Polmar and Thomas Allen while researching a book on the end of the war in the Pacific. Their discovery came too late for inclusion in the book, so they published it instead in the Autumn 1997 issue of Military History Quarterly.

Polmar & Allen ran across references to this meeting in their research and put in a Freedom of Information Act request for related documents. Eventually they received, too late for use in their book, a copy of a document labeled "A Study of the Possible Use of Toxic Gas in Operation Olympic." The word "retaliatory" was PENCILED in between the words "possible" and "use".

Apparently there were only five of these documents circulated during World War Two. The document was requested by the Chemical Corps for historical study in 1947. In an attempt to "redact" history, another document was issued to change all the copies to emphasize retaliatory use rather than the reality of the US planning to use it offensively in support of the invasion of Japan.

The plan called for US heavy bombers to drop 56,583 tons of poison gas on Japanese cities in the 15 days before the invasion of Kyushu, then another 23,935 tons every 30 days thereafter. Tactical air support would drop more on troop concentrations.

The targets of the strategic bombing campaign were Japanese civilians in cities. Chemical Corps casualty estimates for this attack plan were five million dead with another five million injured. This was our backup to nuking Japan into surrender. If the A-bombs didn't work, we were going to gas the Japanese people from the air like bugs, and keep doing so until Japanese resistance ended or all the Japanese were dead.

Genocide is defined by treaty as the murder of a large number of people of an identifiable group, generally a nationality or religion, which number comprises an appreciable percentage of the total group. Five million dead is 6.4% of then 78 million people in the Japanese Home Islands, so this proposed gas attack would certainly have qualified as genocide.

What brought the United States government to that decision was the prospective casualties of a prolonged ground conquest of Japan against suicidal resistance, after Japanese Kamikaze attacks and suicidal ground resistance elsewhere had thoroughly dehumanized them to us.

The American people certainly would have supported such tactics at the time, especially as Japanese Imperial General Headquarters issued orders a month later, provided to us courtesy of code-breaking (MAGIC), to murder all Allied prisoners of war, all interned Allied civilians, and all other Allied civilians Japanese forces could catch in occupied China, the Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia), Malaya, etc., starting with the impending British invasion of Malaya in late September 1945. The Imperial Japanese Army was every bit as evil as the Nazi SS, and more lethal. They'd probably have killed at least an additional 50 million people, more than had died in all of World War Two to that point, before Allied armies could eliminate Japanese forces overseas.

The horror would not have stopped there. An estimated ONE THIRD of the Japanese people (25-30 million) would have died of starvation, disease, poison gas and conventional weapons during a prolonged ground conquest of Japan. The Japanese Army planned on locking up the Emperor, seizing power and fighting to the bitter end once the US invasion started. Thank God for the atom bomb - killing 150,000 - 200,000 Japanese at Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved 75-80 million lives. One of whom would have been the writer's father, an infantry lieutenant who survived Okinawa.

So the United States has within living memory made a decision to commit genocide on a whole people as a matter of state policy. We didn't have to do it because the Japanese Emperor knew we'd do it."


6 posted on 09/25/2006 1:31:28 PM PDT by Thud
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To: pabianice
Twenty Eight Million Japanese had become a part of the National Volunteer Combat Force. They were armed with ancient rifles, lunge mines, satchel charges, Molotov cocktails and one-shot black powder mortars. Others were armed with swords, long bows, axes and bamboo spears. The civilian units were to be used in nighttime attacks, hit and run maneuvers, delaying actions and massive suicide charges at the weaker American positions.

Our soldiers would have had to kill massive numbers of these irregulars. Of the 28 Million, very few would have survived.

To me, 4 Million dead seems wildly optomistic. Dropping the bombs was a no-brainer.

7 posted on 09/25/2006 1:37:53 PM PDT by gridlock (The 'Pubbies will pick up at least TWO seats in the Senate and FOUR seats in the House in 2006)
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To: pabianice

bump for later read.


8 posted on 09/25/2006 1:39:26 PM PDT by wbill
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To: pabianice
I once lived in the only United States city to be hit with an atomic bomb.

On March 11, 1958, at 3:52 P.M. (EST), a B-47E departed Hunter AFB, Georgia, as number three aircraft in a flight of four en route to an overseas base. After level off at 15,000 feet, the aircraft accidentally jettisoned an unarmed nuclear weapon which impacted on a sparsely populated area approximately 6 miles from Florence, South Carolina. The Bomb's high explosive material exploded on impact. The explosion caused property damage and several injuries on the ground.

9 posted on 09/25/2006 1:42:46 PM PDT by N. Theknow ((Kennedys - Can't drive, can't fly, can't ski, can't skipper a boat - But they know what's best.))
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To: Brilliant

Does anyone have the link?


10 posted on 09/25/2006 1:43:11 PM PDT by Mister Politics (www.misterpolitics.com)
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To: pabianice
Japan formally surrendered to the United Nations September 2, 1945, and World War II was over.

Huh?

11 posted on 09/25/2006 1:46:48 PM PDT by SlowBoat407 (I've had it with these &%#@* jihadis on these &%#@* planes!)
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To: wbill

ditto


12 posted on 09/25/2006 1:47:32 PM PDT by SengirV
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Truman had no choice in dropping the bomb, his predecessor and the military had already made that decision for him. Japan was seeking terms of surrender at the time. The bomb was dropped for Uncle Joe to see.


13 posted on 09/25/2006 1:49:25 PM PDT by PageMarker
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To: pabianice

I saw a documentary once with some Japanese officials from that time period, older now of course, and they were asked what caused them most to shudder, and they all agreed that the atomic bomb didn't scare them HALF as much as they Russians, who of course were planning their own invasion.

If the Russians had come, their Islands would have been called "Russia #2". So they said that they weighed being taken over by the Russians, and surrendering to the Americans, and we didn't look so bad.


14 posted on 09/25/2006 2:00:20 PM PDT by CapnBarbosa
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To: pabianice

As an Army brat with my folks in Japan in the 1950s I can testify to the great number of fortifications in the sandstone bluffs around Yokohama. As a little kid, my buddies and I played in those caves.


15 posted on 09/25/2006 2:04:27 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (BTUs are my Beat.)
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To: pabianice

Thanks for posting this article pabianice.


16 posted on 09/25/2006 2:09:59 PM PDT by fat city ("Journalists are sloppy, lazy and on expense account")
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To: pabianice

I wonder how many lives could have been saved if we had the balls to drop 1 or 2 after 9/11.


17 posted on 09/25/2006 2:10:09 PM PDT by nitzy (Every man needs a credo)
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To: pabianice; SandRat

BTTT


18 posted on 09/25/2006 2:13:32 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: PageMarker

"Truman had no choice in dropping the bomb, his predecessor and the military had already made that decision for him. Japan was seeking terms of surrender at the time. The bomb was dropped for Uncle Joe to see."


A good friend of mine was in the Marines on one of the islands south of Japan at the time that the invasion was to start. He was told to write his last letter home as he and his fellow Marines would not survive their initial landing on Japanese soil.

My father was on his way to a troopship that would take him and his unit to Japan to fight with the newly trained mountain units. His unit, already back from Europe and the Battle of the Bulge had a survival rate of 24%. The mountain fighting was to be spectacularly bad.

The estimate of four million is the lightest that I have heard. The most reliable estimates have been 6 million soldiers and as many as thirty million Japanese civilians who would die from battle or starvation and disease.

You probably have never experienced or thought about what the phrase "Total War" means and the meaning is simply this:

Kill or be killed.

Your contention that the bomb was for Joe Stalin is absolutely wrong. We dropped the bomb to save the lives of our soldiers as well as the lives of the Japanese. Harry made the decision, no one else and it was a good humanitarian decision.

Had we not dropped the bomb, we would have had to burn Japan to the ground. Every home, every factory and every tree. Leveled and burning.


19 posted on 09/25/2006 2:13:53 PM PDT by TexanToTheCore (This space for hire...)
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To: pabianice

It can save a billion lives now if we just give it a chance. The Muslim world is just screaming for it.


20 posted on 09/25/2006 2:15:01 PM PDT by Bon mots
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To: Thud

Wow,that`s a chilling read.

Was that Nimitz that said after we`re done with
the Japs their language will only be spoke in hell.


21 posted on 09/25/2006 2:21:44 PM PDT by 31M20RedDevil
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To: gridlock
My Dad (God rest his soul) would have been one of those sent in in an invasion force.

Had it gone through as planned, I might not be here today.
22 posted on 09/25/2006 2:23:21 PM PDT by reagan_fanatic (Well, good luck with all that.)
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To: reagan_fanatic

Same here. Harry Truman probably saved my life too.


23 posted on 09/25/2006 2:26:50 PM PDT by TexanToTheCore (This space for hire...)
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To: pabianice

I am an Atomic Bomb Baby. My father was an Army medic and in August 1945 he was in Tacoma, Washington, awaiting orders to ship out with the first wave of the Japanese invasion. His unit was told to expect 90% casualties.


24 posted on 09/25/2006 2:28:09 PM PDT by Dems_R_Losers (Vote as if your life depends on it -- because it does!!!)
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To: gridlock
To me, 4 Million dead seems wildly optomistic. Dropping the bombs was a no-brainer.

I concur. In the past I have discussed the subject at length with my father. Dad was a veteran of three beachhead invasions. He considered himself as a fugitive from the law of averages as it was. His only hope was "Please, God, don't let it be a fire in the tank crew compartment." Absent the bomb, I certainly wouldn't be here.

I had some discussions with a couple of Japanese who would have been involved when I was stationed in Japan in the '70's. They were equally convinced that the use of the Atomic bomb saved their lives.

25 posted on 09/25/2006 2:39:04 PM PDT by magslinger (If at first you don't succeed, squeeze, squeeze again.)
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To: SlowBoat407
Japan formally surrendered to the United Nations September 2, 1945, and World War II was over.

Huh?

The Allies started referring to themselves as the "United Nations" around the time of one of the summits -- I forget if it was Tehran, Yalta or Potsdam. The phrase appears in several of Truman's speeches. This was well before the charter was signed in San Francisco and the UN came into formal existence.

The Allies were the basis of the UN -- which is why, to this day, the five permanent Security Council members are the major powers that won WWII.

26 posted on 09/25/2006 2:40:44 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: 31M20RedDevil
Was that Nimitz that said after we`re done with the Japs their language will only be spoke in hell.

Admiral William "Bull" Halsey, actually, on the bridge of Enterprise as he reentered Pearl Harbor after the Japanese airstrike.

27 posted on 09/25/2006 2:41:20 PM PDT by Fatuncle (Of course I'm ignorant. I'm here to learn.)
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To: TexanToTheCore; reagan_fanatic

Me, too. See my #25.


28 posted on 09/25/2006 2:42:06 PM PDT by magslinger (If at first you don't succeed, squeeze, squeeze again.)
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To: TexanToTheCore
Ditto.

My Dad was in the Philippines. It was just a matter of time.

I wouldn't be here, my three wonderful children and beautiful grand-baby.

We must remember Pearl Harbor and never forget.

Evil is evil. Good will triumph over evil. We must is my hope.
29 posted on 09/25/2006 2:43:18 PM PDT by Crazy Jim (There are known unknowns and then there are unknown unknowns.)
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To: TexanToTheCore

My wife and children very likely wouldn't be here, either, as her grandfather was going to be headed to Japan. Hence, my wife's mother wouldn't have been born, and my wife, and children. So, it's not just the millions of lives that were saved, but the millions upon millions of lives that came into existence after the war, and the succeeding generations, due to not having to invade Japan.


30 posted on 09/25/2006 2:46:01 PM PDT by Catholic Iowan
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To: TexanToTheCore
You probably have never experienced or thought about what the phrase "Total War" means and the meaning is simply this:

Kill or be killed.

In the case of Japan, kill and be killed. The Japanese government was instructing civilians in tactics like strapping themselves with explosives and rolling under tanks. The Kamikaze pilots were just the tip of the iceberg -- lower-tech suicide attacks could call on old folks and children who wouldn't need much skill, training or a flyable airplane.

Your contention that the bomb was for Joe Stalin is absolutely wrong. We dropped the bomb to save the lives of our soldiers as well as the lives of the Japanese. Harry made the decision, no one else and it was a good humanitarian decision.

I agree that was the primary motivation, and that Truman made the right call. But sending a message to Stalin was also on the table. It was clear from the discussions at the summits that the Soviets and the Western allies were jockeying for position in the post-war world.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were relatively undamaged from the previous waves of bombing -- they were chosen as targets rather than, say, Tokyo, because it made a more effective demonstration of the power of the Bomb. The Japanese leadership was the primary, but not the only, audience. What Truman did not know was how thoroughly compromised the Manhattan Project was, and that the Soviets would have the bomb themselves in only a few years.

31 posted on 09/25/2006 2:49:42 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: TChris; Mister Politics

http://www.waszak.com/japanww2.htm


32 posted on 09/25/2006 2:57:55 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: TexanToTheCore

My dad was a marine on a troop ship in the Pacific massing for the invasion when the bombs ended the war. It would have been his first, and I'm sure his last, combat.


33 posted on 09/25/2006 2:58:31 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: PageMarker
Japan was seeking terms of surrender at the time.

Debatable. Certainly there were elements in the civilian leadership and diplomatic corps who saw the writing on the wall and wanted to find a way out for Japan, but the military was in control of everything, including all the channels of communication. They (Ithe civilians and diplomats) had made a very tenuous peace overture for the Russians to relay to the Americans, but the Russians basically stalled on them while gearing up for their own invasion of China, Korea, etc., When the Japanese military got wind of it, I believe they arrested the people who had reached out. What few peace signals reached the Americans were so obtusely worded and so buried in a thousand "to the last man, woman and child" messages that they were simply ignored.

34 posted on 09/25/2006 2:58:36 PM PDT by Heyworth
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To: SlowBoat407
Japan formally surrendered to the United Nations September 2, 1945, and World War II was over.

Huh?

---
You have much to learn about history, grasshopper.

On this particular point, start here.

DECLARATION BY UNITED NATIONS
35 posted on 09/25/2006 3:11:57 PM PDT by Cheburashka (World's only Spatula City certified spatula repair and maintenance specialist!!!)
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To: pabianice

I read a fictional account of the invasion once. The book was titled 'downfall' I believe and was written by a army general.


36 posted on 09/25/2006 3:16:15 PM PDT by wildbill
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To: pabianice

The US was also seriously considering the use of chemical munitions in the invasion and a shipload of mustard gas was already in the Pacific theater.


37 posted on 09/25/2006 3:27:12 PM PDT by The Great RJ ("Mir wölle bleiwen wat mir sin" or "We want to remain what we are." ..Luxembourg motto)
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To: Catholic Iowan; TexanToTheCore; reagan_fanatic; Crazy Jim

Ditto.

My father was a C-47 navigator. His squadron was training to carry paratroopers for the invasion.


38 posted on 09/25/2006 3:36:50 PM PDT by Cheburashka (World's only Spatula City certified spatula repair and maintenance specialist!!!)
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To: ReignOfError

I once knew a woman whose family was moved from Iwo Jima to Okinawa. Her brother was drafted and never heard from again. Her 7 year old sister killed herself and a group of Marines during the invasion of Okinawa with a grenade given to her by Japanese troops.

At that time, the only thing to do was kill them all and let God sort them out.


39 posted on 09/25/2006 3:38:28 PM PDT by stumpy
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To: ReignOfError

If you want to get a real insight into the mind of the Japanese war machine during WWII and increase your understanding of what we were up against read

"The Rape of Nanking"

It seems impossible that humans could be so cruel, but it happened just as the book describes.

It is a really good argument for the 2nd amendment.


40 posted on 09/25/2006 3:38:35 PM PDT by TexanToTheCore (This space for hire...)
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To: reagan_fanatic; TexanToTheCore; Dems_R_Losers

Me too. My dad was on a ship in the Pacific en route to the Japanese mainland when they dropped it.

No "maybe" about it for me, I would NEVER have been born.


41 posted on 09/25/2006 3:48:55 PM PDT by oprahstheantichrist
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To: Bon mots
Exactly. "All we are saayying, is give nukes a chance"
42 posted on 09/25/2006 3:55:48 PM PDT by Ragnar54
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To: Mister Politics
"Does anyone have the link?"

Look at the date. No internet in 1987.

43 posted on 09/25/2006 4:00:13 PM PDT by oprahstheantichrist
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To: SlowBoat407
The official name of the anti-Axis alliance was the United Nations. Not the same organization as was formed in 1945.
44 posted on 09/25/2006 4:04:39 PM PDT by GAB-1955 (being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the Kingdom of Heaven....)
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To: TexanToTheCore
My dad's father was a gunnery officer on the Cruiser Cleveland and my dad's mother's father was a surgeon in US 3rd Army in Europe. He was about to be sent to the Pacific. They were both thrilled with "The Bomb."
45 posted on 09/25/2006 4:17:39 PM PDT by TWfromTEXAS (We are at war - Man up or Shut up.)
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To: pabianice
Here's a link: 1987.
46 posted on 09/25/2006 4:18:43 PM PDT by decimon
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To: Heyworth
Imperial General Headquarters planned to sequester the Emperor effective upon the British amphibious assault on southwestern Malaya, which the British planned for late September 1945. That would also have been when the orders would have gone out to massacre all Allied POW's, interned civilians, and any other Allied civilians Japanese forces could catch in China and all of Southeast Asia (Malaya, the Dutch East Indies, any Phillipine islands still held by the Japanese, etc.).

Check out the reference to Field Marshal Terauchi (CinC of the Japanese army group - Southern Group of Armies) in the index of George Feifer's Tennozan: The Battle of Okinawa and the Atomic Bomb. Allied signals intelligence (MAGIC) intercepted and decoded the late July 1945 order from Imperial GHQ to Terauchi to prepare for this.

47 posted on 09/25/2006 4:30:07 PM PDT by Thud
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To: Fiddlstix; 91B; HiJinx; Spiff; MJY1288; xzins; Calpernia; clintonh8r; TEXOKIE; windchime; ...
Yet the LEFT will never admit to the facts.
48 posted on 09/25/2006 4:47:11 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: samadams2000
One thing that irritates me about many air-power advocates is that they leave the impression that the A-bombs, by them selves, caused Japan to surrender. As this article makes clear the Japanese high command knew that an invasion was planned. Also occurring in roughly the same time period were Soviet invasions of Manchuria, fire bombings of many Japanese cities, and the 5th(?) fleet was destroying anything along the east coast that was judged worthy of sending in a sortie.

I think it unlikely at best that any one of these activities in isolation would have caused the Japanese to surrender.
49 posted on 09/25/2006 4:50:20 PM PDT by Fraxinus
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To: pabianice

Pingu desu.


50 posted on 09/25/2006 5:12:15 PM PDT by Zetman (I believe the children are the next generation.)
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