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Giuliani to Hillary: 'Stop This Blame Thing'
NewsMax ^ | Sep 28, 2006 | Staff

Posted on 09/28/2006 7:45:46 AM PDT by veronica

Former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani characterized Bill and Hillary Clinton's recent criticism of President Bush's efforts to stop Osama bin Laden before 9/11 as a "mistake" and said it's time to "stop this blame thing" over who is responsible for the September 11 attacks.

"I think the comparison is the mistake," Giuliani told NewsMax and other media during a luncheon Wednesday in Palm Beach Gardens, Fla., while on a campaign stop for Congressman Clay Shaw, R-Fla., who is seeking re-election.

"I don't think the Clinton people should be saying somehow it's more President Bush's responsibility," Giuliani said when asked about Hillary's recent statements about Sept. 11.

On Monday, Sen. Clinton said she defended her husband's outburst on Fox News over criticism he has received for his handling of Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida.

"I'm certain that if my husband and his national security team had been shown a classified report entitled ‘Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States,'" Sen. Clinton said, "he would have taken it more seriously than history suggests it was taken by our current president and his national security team."

The remark was a direct swipe at President Bush, because in August of 2001 he was given such a report prepared by the CIA. The CIA report, however, never indicated how al-Qaida might strike U.S. targets.

"I know President Bush doesn't say that about President Clinton," said Giuliani. "I think the reality is that any American president, if they had known about an attack, would have done everything they could to stop it."

The real fault for 9/11, Giuliani says, lies squarely with the Islamic terrorists. He added, "I think we should stop trying to blame our presidents for 9/11."

Frequently mentioned as a potential Republican candidate for president in 2008, Giuliani characterized the latest war of words over who is responsible for 9/11 as a distraction. "We should stop this blame thing," he said. "There's no blame to be cast on President Bush or President Clinton."

Giuliani added that he thinks we should stop getting distracted by trying to figure out what American is responsible for the terrorist attacks, saying "Americans didn't do Sept. 11, the Islamic terrorists did."

In his remarks during the campaign stop, Giuliani credited President Bush's aggressive anti-terror policy for the fact the U.S. has not been attacked since 9/11.

"The reality is, thank God, we haven't been attacked in five years," Giuliani said. "None of us thought that was possible. We all thought that after 9/11 we would be attacked. I personally thought many times."


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 911; bj; bjclinton; clintonistas; clintons; guiliani; perjury; whatdidbergersteal; whileclintonslept
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1 posted on 09/28/2006 7:45:46 AM PDT by veronica
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To: veronica
The real fault for 9/11, Giuliani says, lies squarely with the Islamic terrorists. He added, "I think we should stop trying to blame our presidents for 9/11."

I understand Rudy wants to appear to take the "high road" as a strategy to strip Independents away from McCain. It will work. But I hope he follows the clever Tony Snow lead regarding how the Clintons shredded our military and intelligence budgets and staff in the 1990s.

2 posted on 09/28/2006 7:51:27 AM PDT by montag813
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To: veronica

These are the words of a LEADER - not petty BS politician.

Like it or not - Rudy is an adult among many children who are eyeing 2008.

I like the man.

Now whether he is the nominee in 2008 - only time will tell - there is so far to go.

But right now - he speaks like a leader.


3 posted on 09/28/2006 7:51:43 AM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: veronica

Is that what he said? Scanned another thread and I though he said it wasn't Clinton's fault.


4 posted on 09/28/2006 7:53:01 AM PDT by SJackson (The PilgrimsóDoing the jobs Native Americans wouldn't do!)
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To: Jake The Goose

too bad Rudy is so LIBERAL!!!!


5 posted on 09/28/2006 7:53:59 AM PDT by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: veronica


The truth is, we were attacked on 9/11 and we have not been hit in five years. Those are facts and someone is responsible for both.


6 posted on 09/28/2006 7:54:40 AM PDT by SR 50 (Larry)
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To: SJackson
I wonder how long before this thread gets spammed by the gay-obsessed must-show-Rudy-in-a-dress crowd??
7 posted on 09/28/2006 7:55:43 AM PDT by veronica (NEW LITERARY AND ARTS JOURNAL offers free advertising for writers, bloggers, artists. FRmail me...)
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To: veronica
Giuilani targets his ire towards the Islamic Cult headchoppers.

Thank god for Pres Bush for doing the same.
8 posted on 09/28/2006 7:56:46 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: veronica

It depends on when the orderly allows them to go down to the computer room.


9 posted on 09/28/2006 7:56:58 AM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: Jake The Goose

:)


10 posted on 09/28/2006 7:58:21 AM PDT by veronica (NEW LITERARY AND ARTS JOURNAL offers free advertising for writers, bloggers, artists. FRmail me...)
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To: veronica

Quote: "I don't think the Clinton people should be saying somehow it's more President Bush's responsibility," Giuliani said when asked about Hillary's recent statements about Sept. 11."

Rudy, you have to understand, Hillary is just now realizing that in order for her to run, her husband's legacy must be saved. Too bad she doesn't get that he has no legacy to save, but nevermind that.

I for one am glad to see this blame game being joined by Bush because it started long ago. Afterall, the 9/11 commission was no more than Clinton's way of exonerating himself and shifting the blame to Bush for 9/11. Putting Jamie Goerelick on that panel!?!? Yah, right, it is akin to the fox watching the hen house.

Finally, a liberal myth (9/11 was Bush's fault) is being destroyed. Other liberal myths that need to be destroyed: Bush stole Florida in 2000 (when it was Gore who wanted selective recounts); The U.S. engages in torture; So called "Domestic Spying" when all that is happening is intercepting calls from terrorists, etc. etc.


11 posted on 09/28/2006 8:02:16 AM PDT by FlipWilson
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To: Jake The Goose
But right now - he speaks like a leader.

Lots of liberals are leaders. Good luck with that particular liberal.

I never vote for liberals, no matter what party they claim or how "adult" they look.

12 posted on 09/28/2006 8:02:27 AM PDT by Protagoras (Billy only tried to kill Bin Laden, he actually succeeded with Ron Brown and Vince Foster.)
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To: Jake The Goose

Thanks for the laugh. It's such a sad day (Bailey HS) and your comment was welcome.


13 posted on 09/28/2006 8:03:32 AM PDT by OldFriend (Should we wait for them to come and kill us again? President Karzai 9/26/06)
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To: veronica
I wonder how long before this thread gets spammed by the gay-obsessed must-show-Rudy-in-a-dress crowd??

sounds like your pushing for it, or why bring it up?

14 posted on 09/28/2006 8:06:22 AM PDT by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: OldFriend

I cannot even imagine a more horrific thing for a parent to have to go through. (the HS incident in CO.)

Makes you want to cry just thinking about the impact it has on so many lives - for the rest of those lives.

Terrible


15 posted on 09/28/2006 8:06:31 AM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: veronica

I'm sick of it too...I wish they'd all talk about illegal immigration as much as they're talking about who to blame for 9/11. It's all a diversion from our real problems.


16 posted on 09/28/2006 8:08:15 AM PDT by Hildy (Canada is like a loft apartment over a really great party house)
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To: Vaquero; veronica
sounds like your pushing for it, or why bring it up?

She can't start the Rudy-persecuted-by-narrow-minded-social-conservatives schtick without it.

17 posted on 09/28/2006 8:09:07 AM PDT by dirtboy (This tagline has been photoshopped)
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To: dirtboy

Rudy-is persecuted-by-narrow-minded-social-conservatives.


18 posted on 09/28/2006 8:10:32 AM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: veronica

Guiliani has this incredible ability to cut through all the MSM BS and make many of the uninformed "get it".


19 posted on 09/28/2006 8:10:42 AM PDT by tkathy (The Real Republican (RR) way is sticking to the issues and not finger pointing.)
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To: Protagoras

Some days I would just as soon have a liberal that was a true leader, than some of our gutless republicans who can't seem to pull their heads out of their @ss on a bet.


20 posted on 09/28/2006 8:11:50 AM PDT by newcthem (Brought to you by the INFIDEL PARTY)
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To: Jake The Goose
Rudy-is persecuted-by-narrow-minded-social-conservatives.

For what, being pro-abort, pro-gay-marriage and anti-gun?

Since when is it persecution to be criticized over major policy differences?

21 posted on 09/28/2006 8:12:44 AM PDT by dirtboy (This tagline has been photoshopped)
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To: Jake The Goose; dirtboy

dirtboy? what kind of conservative should we have at FR?

The liberal kind I suppose?

I may be wrong but I don't think FR is about strict fiscal /liberal sodomite/gay pride/anti gun/pro abortion conservatism.....so correct me if I am wrong.


22 posted on 09/28/2006 8:17:40 AM PDT by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: dirtboy

Here's a way out idea.

I used YOUR words.

If you honestly think any President is going to encourage abortions, take your guns away, and encourage to marry your barber - then allow me.

Have those children now - quickly.
Go load up the gun safe (mine is full I can promise you)

And finally - man up for heavens sake.


23 posted on 09/28/2006 8:17:53 AM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: dirtboy

excuse me if I got you wrong.


24 posted on 09/28/2006 8:19:22 AM PDT by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: veronica
On Monday, Sen. Clinton said she defended her husband's outburst on Fox News over criticism he has received for his handling of Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida.

"I'm certain that if my husband and his national security team had been shown a classified report entitled ‘Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States,'" Sen. Clinton said, "he would have taken it more seriously than history suggests it was taken by our current president and his national security team."

To my favorite Fat Bottomed Girl...

You can go entertain yourself.

25 posted on 09/28/2006 8:19:51 AM PDT by sauropod ("Work as if you were to live 100 Years, Pray as if you were to die To-morrow." - Ben Franklin)
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To: Jake The Goose

So I take it you have no problem with infanticide ("late term abortion")?


26 posted on 09/28/2006 8:21:33 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Every single day provides at least one new reason to hate the mainstream media...)
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To: Jake The Goose

I like Rudy.


27 posted on 09/28/2006 8:23:37 AM PDT by GeorgefromGeorgia
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To: dirtboy

Giuliani says he is not pro abortion in fact he is against it, but, he will not throw women in prison for it.


28 posted on 09/28/2006 8:25:34 AM PDT by BookaT (My cat's breath smells like cat food!)
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To: veronica
I wonder how long before this thread gets spammed by the gay-obsessed must-show-Rudy-in-a-dress crowd??

I've read that. I even heard he employed a gay once. Heard the same nonsense about George Allen too, The nutball sites say Allen's got enough gay employees to open his own gay bar.

Lately, George Allen has been enduring criticism from homosexuals for not being MORE supportive of their agenda. A homosexual activist in Washington, D.C. has been “outing” members of George Allen’s Senate staff, exposing their formerly “closeted” homosexual activities. According to this strident gay activist - at the very least; George Allen’s general counsel, his chief spokesman, and his appointment to be Executive Director of the Republican Senatorial Committee are all practicing homosexuals. The homosexual activist calls Allen’s office, “the gayest place on Capitol Hill.”

Probably why Rudy likes him, though Allen's gays appear to still be practicing per the Family Policy Network.

First the Zionists in the Republican Party, now gays. What's next?

29 posted on 09/28/2006 8:26:43 AM PDT by SJackson (The PilgrimsóDoing the jobs Native Americans wouldn't do!)
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To: veronica

30 posted on 09/28/2006 8:27:52 AM PDT by redstates4ever
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To: Jake The Goose
If you honestly think any President is going to encourage abortions, take your guns away, and encourage to marry your barber - then allow me.

Try Bill Clinton and Bill Clinton for the first two.

And it goes well beyond abortion and taking away guns. Abortion is murder, IMO, and abortion has killed vastly more Americans than who died in 9-11. And we need more concealed carry, not less, to fight both terrorism here and crime as well. So guns are a critical issue.

31 posted on 09/28/2006 8:28:46 AM PDT by dirtboy (This tagline has been photoshopped)
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To: SJackson

"Orderly - please take SJackson back to his room"

And please - up the meds on this person ASAP....


32 posted on 09/28/2006 8:29:58 AM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: BookaT
Giuliani says he is not pro abortion in fact he is against it, but, he will not throw women in prison for it.

How about working to make it illegal?

33 posted on 09/28/2006 8:30:19 AM PDT by dirtboy (This tagline has been photoshopped)
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To: dirtboy

Rudy's right, but I think it is hysterical that Hillary jumped into this historical debate with a hypothetical.


34 posted on 09/28/2006 8:32:04 AM PDT by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: dirtboy

On Gun ownership - no argument here Dirtboy.

I have been an NRA member since 1981 (the day I graduated from college)

Don't worry - this nation will never surrender it's guns - honestly you must not worry about this - just continue to defend your rights - as you are.


35 posted on 09/28/2006 8:32:10 AM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: Jake The Goose
Don't worry - this nation will never surrender it's guns - honestly you must not worry about this - just continue to defend your rights - as you are.

It's not just about surrendering guns - it's also about expanding concealed-carry, which, from what I have seen, Rudy would oppose (I'd like a federal reciprocity approach to state permits within reason).

As others have noted, we don't know where the next terrorist attack may hit. IMO we would be far better off having vastly expanded concealed carry to increase the chances of armed citizens being present when the next strike is attempted.

36 posted on 09/28/2006 8:39:21 AM PDT by dirtboy (This tagline has been photoshopped)
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To: Protagoras

There is no liberal as competent a leader as Guiliani. Not even close.


37 posted on 09/28/2006 8:42:23 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
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To: SJackson
He did say it wasn't President Clinton's fault. He also said it wasn't President Bush's fault.

He said it was the Islamic Terrorists fault.

Frankly, I agree with him. To make this a partisan issue is to fall into the blame America first trap.

38 posted on 09/28/2006 8:45:50 AM PDT by pollyannaish
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To: veronica
"I'm certain that if my husband and his national security team had been shown a classified report entitled ‘Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States,'" Sen. Clinton said, "he would have taken it more seriously than history suggests it was taken by our current president and his national security team."

How about a mere U.S. Grand Jury Indictment listing threats to attack 'United States forces stationed on the Saudi Arabian peninsula, Horn of Africa, including Somalia and kill Americans -- including civilians -- anywhere in the world where they can be found'?

Guess that wasn't something to take "seriously".


06 November 1998

TEXT: US GRAND JURY INDICTMENT AGAINST USAMA BIN LADEN

United States District Court
Southern District of New York

New York -- A U.S. Federal Grand Jury in New York on Nov. 5 issued an indictment against Usama Bin Laden alleging that he and others engaged in a long-term conspiracy to attack U.S. facilities overseas and to kill American citizens.

The indictment noted that Al Qaeda, Bin Laden's international terrorist group, forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in Sudan and with the government of Iran and with its associated group Hezballah to "work together against their perceived common enemies in the West, particularly the United States."

Additionally, the indictment states that Al Qaeda reached an agreement with Iraq not to work against the regime of Saddam Hussein and that they would work cooperatively with Iraq, particularly in weapons development.

According to the indictment, Bin Laden's group also tried to recruit Americans to travel through the United States and the West to deliver messages and to conduct financial transactions to aid their terrorist activities. The indictment also states that Al Qaeda used humanitarian work as a conduit for transmitting funds to affiliate terrorist groups.

The indictment also claims that Bin Laden's supporters purchased land for terrorist training camps; bought warehouses where explosives were stored; transferred bank accounts using various aliases; purchased sophisticated telecommunications equipment; and transferred money and weapons to Al Qaeda and affiliated terrorist organizations.

The indictment also states that beginning in 1993, Al Qaeda began training Somali tribes to oppose the United Nation's humanitarian effort in Somalia. In October, members of Al Qaeda participated in an attack on U.S. military personnel where 18 soldiers were killed and 73 others wounded in Mogadishu. In another reference, the indictment noted that an unnamed "co-conspirator" transported weapons and explosives from Khartoum to Port Sudan for transshipment to the Saudi Arabian peninsula.

The Grand Jury document, which usually does not provide a great amount of details in advance of a prosecution, also stated that Bin Laden and "others" tried to develop chemical weapons and attempted to obtain nuclear weapons components in 1993.

The indictment noted that Bin Laden issued his Declaration of Jihad with the aim of recruiting others to "kill Americans and encouraged other persons to join the jihad against the American enemy."

Following is the text of the indictment:

(Begin text)

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

- V-

USAMA BIN LADEN,

a/k/a "Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Laden,"

a/k/a "Shaykh Usamah Bin-Laden,"

a/k/a "Mujahid Shaykh,"

a/k/a "Abu Abdallah,"

a/k/a "Qa Qa,"

Defendant

COUNT ONE

Conspiracy to Attack Defense Utilities of the United States

The Grand Jury charges:

Background: Al Qaeda

1. At all relevant times from in or about 1989 until the date of the filing of this Indictment, an international terrorist group existed which was dedicated to opposing non-Islamic governments with force and violence. This organization grew out of the "mekhtab al Khidemat" (the "Services Office") organization which had maintained (and continues to maintain) offices in various parts of the world, including Afghanistan, Pakistan (particularly in Peshawar) and the United States, particularly at the Alkifah Refugee Center - in Brooklyn. From in or about 1989 until the present, the group called itself "Al Qaeda" ("the Base"). From 1989 until in or about 1991, the group was headquartered in Afghanistan and Peshawar, Pakistan. In or about 1992, the leadership of Al Qaeda, including its "emir" (or prince) USAMA BIN LADEN the defendant, and its military command relocated to the Sudan. From in or about 1991 until the present, the group also called itself the "Islamic Army." The international terrorist group (hereafter referred to as "Al Qaeda") was headquartered in the Sudan from approximately 1992 until approximately 1996 but still maintained offices in various parts of the world. In 1996, USAMA BIN LADEN and Al Qaeda relocated to Afghanistan. At all relevant times, Al Qaeda was led by its "emir," USAMA BIN LADEN. Members of Al Qaeda pledged an oath of allegiance to USAMA BIN LADEN and Al Qaeda.

2. Al Qaeda opposed the United States for several reasons. First, the United States was regarded as "infidel" because it was not governed in a manner consistent with the group's extremist interpretation of Islam. Second, the United States was viewed as providing essential support for other "infidel" governments and institutions, particularly the governments of Saudi Arabia and Egypt, the nation of Israel and the United Nations, which were regarded as enemies of the group. Third, Al Qaeda opposed the involvement of the United states armed forces in the Gulf War in 1991 and in Operation Restore Hope in Somalia in 1992 and 1993. In particular, Al Qaeda opposed the continued presence of American military forces in Saudi Arabia (and elsewhere on the Saudi Arabian peninsula) following the Gulf war. Fourth, Al Qaeda opposed the United States Government because of the arrest, conviction and imprisonment of persons belonging to Al Qaeda or its affiliated terrorist groups, including Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman.

3. Al Qaeda has functioned both on its own and through some of the terrorist organizations that have operated under its umbrella, including: the Islamic Group (also known as "al Gamaa Islamia" or simply "Gamaa't"), led by co-conspirator Sheik Oxar Abdal Rahman; the al Jihad group based in Egypt; the "Talah e Fatah" ("Vanguards of conquest") faction of al Jibad, which was also based in Egypt, Which faction was led by co-conspirator Ayman al Zawahiri ("al Jibad"); Palestinian Islamic Jihad and a number of Jihad groups in other countries, including Egypt, the Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia, Eritrea, Kenya, Pakistan, Bosnia, Croatia, Algeria, Tunisia, Lebanon, the Philippines, Tajikistan, Chechnya, Bangladesh, Kashmir and Azerbaijan. In February 1998, Al Qaeda joined forces with Gamaa't, Al Jihad, the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh and the "Jamaat ul Ulema e Pakistan" to issue a fatwah (an Islamic religious ruling) declaring war against American civilians worldwide under the banner of the "International Islamic Front for Jibad on the Jews and Crusaders."

4. Al Qaeda also forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in the Sudan and with the government of Iran and its associated terrorist group Hezballah for the purpose of working together against their perceived common enemies in the West, particularly the United States. In addition, al Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq.

5. Al Qaeda had a command and control structure which included a majlis al shura (or consultation council) which discussed and approved major undertakings, including terrorist operations.

6. Al Qaeda also conducted internal investigations of its members and their associates in an effort to detect informants and killed those suspected of collaborating with enemies of Al Qaeda.

7. From at least 1991 until the date of the filing of this Indictment, in the Sudan, Afghanistan and elsewhere out of the jurisdiction of any particular state or district, USAMA BIN LADEN, a/k/a "Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Laden," a/k/a "Shaykh Usamah Bin-Laden," a/k/a "Mujahid Shaykh," a/k/a "Abu Abdallah," a/k/a "Qa Qa," the defendant, and a co-conspirator not named as a defendant herein (hereafter "Co-conspirator") who was first brought to and arrested in the Southern District of New York, and others known and unknown to the grand jury, unlawfully, willfully and knowingly combined conspired, confederated and agreed together and with each other to injure and destroy, and attempt to injure and destroy, national-defense material, national-defense premises and national-defense utilities of the United States with the intent to injure, interfere with and obstruct the national defense of the United states.

Overt Acts

8. In furtherance of the said conspiracy, and to effect the illegal object thereof, the following overt acts, among others, were committed:

a. At various times from at least as early as 1991 until at least in or about February 1998, USAMA BIN LADEN, the defendant, met with Co-conspirator and other members of Al Qaeda in the Sudan, Afghanistan and elsewhere;

b. At various times from at least as early as 1991, USAMA BIN LADEN, and others known and unknown, made efforts to obtain weapons, including firearms and explosives, for Al Qaeda and its affiliated terrorist groups;

c. At various times from at least as early as 1991 USAMA BIN LADEN, and others known and unknown, provided training camps and guest houses in various areas, including Afghanistan and the Sudan, for the use of Al Qaeda and its affiliated terrorist groups;

d. At various times from at least as early as 1991, USAMA BIN LADEN, and others known and unknown, made efforts to produce counterfeit passports purporting to be issued by various countries and also obtained official passports from the Government of the Sudan for use by Al Qaeda and its affiliated groups;

e. At various times from at least as early as 1991, USAMA BIN LADEN, and others known and unknown, made efforts to recruit United States citizens to Al Qaeda in order to utilize the American citizens for travel throughout the Western world to deliver messages and engage in financial transactions for the benefit of Al Qaeda and its affiliated groups;

f. At various times from at least as early as 1991, USAMA BIN LADEN, and others known and unknown, made efforts to utilize non-Government organizations which purported to be engaged in humanitarian work as conduits for transmitting funds for the benefit of Al Qaeda and its affiliated groups;

g. At various times from at least as early as 1991, Co-conspirator and others known and unknown to the grand jury engaged in financial and business transactions on behalf of defendant USAMA BIN LADEN and Al Qaeda, including, but not limited to: purchasing land for training camps; purchasing warehouses for storage of items, including explosives; transferring funds between bank accounts opened in various names, obtaining various communications equipment, including satellite telephones and transporting currency and weapons to members of Al Qaeda and its associated terrorist organizations in various countries throughout the world;

h. At various times from in or about 1992 until the date of the filing of this Indictment, USAMA BIN LADEN and other ranking members of Al Qaeda stated privately to other members of Al Qaeda that Al Qaeda should put aside its differences with Shiite Muslim terrorist organizations, including the Government of Iran and its affiliated terrorist group Hezballah, to cooperate against the perceived common enemy, the United States and its allies;

i. At various times from in or about 1992 until the date of the filing of this Indictment, USAMA BIN LADEN and other ranking members of Al Qaeda stated privately to other members of Al Qaeda that the United States forces stationed on the Saudi Arabian peninsula, including both Saudi Arabia and Yemen, should be Attacked;

j. At various times from in or about 1992 until the date of the filing of this Indictment, USAMA BIN LADEN and other ranking members of Al Qaeda stated privately to other members of Al Qaeda that the United States forces stationed in the Horn of Africa, including Somalia, should be attacked;

k. Beginning in or about early spring 1993, Al Qaeda members began to provide training and assistance to Somali tribes opposed to the United Nations intervention in Somalia;

l. On October 3 and 4, 1993, members of Al Qaeda participated with Somali tribesmen in an attack on United States military personnel serving in Somalia as part of Operation Restore Hope, which attack killed a total of 18 United States soldiers and wounded 73 others in Mogadishu;

m. On two occasions in the period from in or about 1992 until in or about 1995, Co-conspirator helped transport weapons and explosives from Khartoum to Port Sudan for transshipment to the Saudi Arabian peninsula;

n. At various times from at least as early as 1993, USAMA BIN LADEN and others known and unknown, made efforts to obtain the components of nuclear weapons;

o. At various times from at least as early as 1993 USAMA BIN LADEN and others known and unknown, made efforts to produce chemical weapons;

p. On or about August 23, 1996, USAMA BIN LADEN signed and issued a declaration of Jihad entitled "Message from Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Laden to His Muslim Brothers in the Whole World and Especially in the Arabian Peninsula: Declaration of Jihad Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Mosques; Expel the Heretics from the Arabian Peninsula" (hereafter the "Declaration of Jihad) from the Hindu Kush mountains in Afghanistan. The Declaration of Jihad included statements that efforts should be pooled to kill Americans and encouraged other persons to join the jihad against the American enemy";

q. In or about late August 1996, USAMA BIN LADEN read aloud the Declaration of Jihad and made an audiotape recording of such reading for worldwide distribution; and

r. In February 1998, USAMA BIN LADEN issued a joint declaration in the name of Gamaa't, Al Jihad, the Jihad movement in Bangladesh and the "Jamaat ul Ulema e Pakistan" under the banner of the "International Islamic Front for Jihad on the Jews and Crusaders," which stated that Muslims should kill Americans -- including civilians -- anywhere in the world where they can be found.

(Title 18, United States code, Section 2155(b).)

(End text)

39 posted on 09/28/2006 8:46:08 AM PDT by michigander (The Constitution only guarantees the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.)
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To: pollyannaish
Frankly, I agree with him. To make this a partisan issue is to fall into the blame America first trap.

You're right, arguing over blame distracts from the political discussion of how we're going to fight terror, an issue the Dems lose on. A point for Rudy for political acumen.

40 posted on 09/28/2006 8:49:37 AM PDT by SJackson (The PilgrimsóDoing the jobs Native Americans wouldn't do!)
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To: SJackson
A point for Rudy for political acumen.

There you go. Credit where credit is due. I don't know that I will vote for him in the primaries if he runs, but he earned a point with this and I am happy to give it to him.

41 posted on 09/28/2006 8:52:42 AM PDT by pollyannaish
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To: pollyannaish
There you go. Credit where credit is due. I don't know that I will vote for him in the primaries if he runs, but he earned a point with this and I am happy to give it to him.

Unless it's down to only Rudy or McCain, I won't, but I'll certainly vote for him over anything the Dems have to offer.

42 posted on 09/28/2006 9:03:09 AM PDT by SJackson (The PilgrimsóDoing the jobs Native Americans wouldn't do!)
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To: pollyannaish

BTW, I'd love to see GWB make that same point, leave the Dems the "who's to blame more issue" and invite them to explain just what they're going to do now to fight terror. It's a winning issue for Republicans and one that could have been used to "nationalize" the mid term elections.


43 posted on 09/28/2006 9:04:57 AM PDT by SJackson (The PilgrimsóDoing the jobs Native Americans wouldn't do!)
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To: dirtboy
dirt,

40 states mow have conceal & carry laws. The Supreme Court has not taken any case which will broadly limit or eliminate gun ownership in it's history. The ruling have been narrow or specific to a particular case. Because of that, the states have taken it upon themselves to define gun laws.
Only in states with a preponderance of metrosexual men who allow their soccer-mom wives to boss them into submission - Calif, N.Y., various N.E. states (and you know who you are), will C & C laws have little chance.

Abortion is in the purview of the Supreme Court, and G.W. will probably get one more appointment before he 's gone. So by 2008, that'll be squarely on the Courts and the conscious of the female who decides to end a pregnancy.

I've enjoyed your posts over the years and thought of you as one of the pillars of common sense at FR. Most of the time you are, but when it comes to Rudy - yikes.
44 posted on 09/28/2006 9:09:47 AM PDT by muleskinner
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To: dirtboy
How about working to make it illegal?


I bet the strongest stance you will see out of the Repub nominee no matter who he is ..

Will be the W position of appointing strict consistutionalist judges...meaning toss it back to the states.....and working to change hearts and minds.

Not one will say he will work to make it illegal across the board. Not only is that a politically unpopular position it's not politically possible.
45 posted on 09/28/2006 9:13:54 AM PDT by Blackirish
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To: muleskinner
I've enjoyed your posts over the years and thought of you as one of the pillars of common sense at FR. Most of the time you are, but when it comes to Rudy - yikes.

I'm sorry, but IMO Rudy has the wrong views on gun rights for this day and age - and it is critical for a president to support such. He also needs to be anti-abort instead of pro-choice. IMO he will never win the nomination for the reasons stated, among others. If that disappoints you regarding my views, I can't help that.

46 posted on 09/28/2006 9:14:57 AM PDT by dirtboy (This tagline has been photoshopped)
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To: Blackirish
Not only is that a politically unpopular position it's not politically possible.

I disagree. Public opinion has shifted dramatically against most legal abortion over the last decade. Having the GOP nominate a pro-choice candidate would not be helpful in that trend.

I agree abortion should be a state issue. But ever since the usurpation in Roe v. Wade, it is not. So the president has a role to play regarding signing or vetoing abortion-related legislation as long as Roe v. Wade stands.

47 posted on 09/28/2006 9:16:53 AM PDT by dirtboy (This tagline has been photoshopped)
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To: Jake The Goose

I like Rudy, more each day.


48 posted on 09/28/2006 9:17:33 AM PDT by JFC
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To: muleskinner
Only in states with a preponderance of metrosexual men who allow their soccer-mom wives to boss them into submission - Calif, N.Y., various N.E. states (and you know who you are), will C & C laws have little chance.

So we should nominate someone from metrosexual NY City who buys into gun control concepts? Don't underestimate the ability of the feds to butt into this issue.

49 posted on 09/28/2006 9:18:13 AM PDT by dirtboy (This tagline has been photoshopped)
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To: Vaquero

Damn straight.


50 posted on 09/28/2006 9:19:11 AM PDT by Toby06 (Hydrogen is not a fuel source. Hydrogen is an energy storage method, like a battery.)
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