Snapshot - Smoking Ban Impact on Bars/Bowling Centrs

congress.org ^ | 28 September 2006 | Darnet Dawn

[SheLion]

Following are actual statistics reflecting examples of the negative impact upon individual businesses following the recently instituted smoking ban ordinances, effective in Springfield, Illinois and surrounding unincorporated Sangamon County this September 15, 2006 (less than two weeks ago).

When small businesses account for about two-thirds of our country's economic growth and new jobs, it is difficult to comprehend elected officials' reasoning in voting to implement an intrusive ordinance which will hurt those same business owners.

A restaurant owner who does not permit smoking will see it as a violation of his property rights if a coalition uses the political arena to create legislation forcing him to permit smoking. It is no less a property rights violation in reverse. If a restaurant owner wishes to permit smoking, he might put up a “Smoking Permitted” sign and let potential patrons decide whether they wish to enter. Similarly, if an owner doesn’t permit smoking, he might put up a “No Smoking” sign and again let the customers decide.

SNAPSHOT OF SMOKING BAN IMPACT ON BARS & BOWLING CENTERS IN SPRINGFIELD AND UNINCORPORATED SANGAMON COUNTY:

D.H. Browns—business down more than 50%

- The last time Brown’s had a Monday as low as the first Monday of the ban was 8 years ago during a snowstorm.

- Brown’s will likely have to lay off their doormen—on top of the lost employment, this will increase the chances of underage drinkers violating the law.

- Two (2) waitresses informed management that they will have to give their notice and try to get a job in one of the neighboring communities that permit smoking because they are no longer making any money.

Track Shack—business down 42%

- For the first time, the owner had to draw money out of his personal funds to pay Track Shack’s bills.

American Legion Post # 32—business down more than 50%

Floyd’s—business down, but not substantially

JW’s Lounge—business down over 40%

Stadium—business down 40%

- 10 people in bar, 43 in Beer Garden on Wednesday night, numbers similar on the other nights.

Cheers—business down more than 50%

- $400 to $500 previous average daily sales—haven’t had one night over $200 since the ban went into effect.

Bernie & Betty’s—business down 40%

Knuckleheads—business down 40%

Mac’s Lounge—business down more than 25%

- Customers who were regulars prior to the ban have been calling Mac’s to tell them what a great time they were having at the Curve Inn in Southern View where smoking is permitted.

Sammy’s—business down, but not substantially

VFW Northender—business down, but percentage is unknown

- Waitress made a total of $14 in tips during her shift on Monday, and $17 on Tuesday—substantially lower than past experience.

Spillway Lanes—bar business is down more than 25%

- Lost 10 bowling teams since ban, gained only 1.

Black Dog Saloon, Winner’s Circle & Teasers had to close over 2 hours early this week due to lack of customers
 
______________________________
Garnet Dawn - The Smoker's Club, Inc. - Midwest Regional Director
The United Pro Choice Smokers Rights Newsletter - http://www.smokersclubinc.com
Illinois Smokers Rights - Illinois Smokers Forum - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/illinoissmokers/

[SheLion]

[SheLion]

Smoking bans are killing private businesses!!!!

[Jeff Gordon]

Do you think the smoking Nazi's give a damn about reduced GNP? These are the same people that would like to eliminate humand from the face of the earh because we damage "nature."

[billybudd]

I wonder what effect the ban on marijuana is having on businesses.

[outdriving]

OK, Freepers, where are you standing up for individual rights vs government mandates?

Is there some reason a private business owner cannot state his smoking preference in advance, and not violate the rights of his patrons and employees?

[Lurker]

I wonder what effect the ban on marijuana is having on businesses.

I nominate yours for the "Most Stupid Response Of The Day".

L

[takenoprisoner]

Everything is going exactly as planned. Soon most bars will be forced to close. If only the 1920's prohibitionists could have been as smart. They didn't need to outlaw booze in bars, all they needed to do was outlaw smoking.

[dasboot]

I work in bars. Mass and RI. Before and after comparison averages about 50% loss.

The state-run dog track and Hia Alai in RI are exempted. They're doing bangup business.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[SheLion]

   

[scott7278]

- Customers who were regulars prior to the ban have been calling Mac’s to tell them what a great time they were having at the Curve Inn in Southern View where smoking is permitted.

They shouldn't rub it in; Mac's didn't make the decision. They should be calling their legislators while demanding that the free market should decide.

The owner(s) of Mac's is having his/her pursuit of happiness taken away.

[SheLion]

This is just in Illinois.  The same sad story is being told all across the United States where the professional anti-smokers are taking over.

SMOKING BANS ARE CHOKING THE ECONOMY!!!!!

THE REAL FACTS OF THE SMOKING BANS IMPACT ON BUSINESS'S
The Facts

[Loud Mime]

The private sector should offer its own solutions. Period.

[mysterio]

Good. Smokers are doing their job. In any town that bans it, let's see if they can lose 25% of their business.

Remember, a lot of the businesses are in a coalition to back the ban. Or at least they aren't standing up to fight the ban. Let them rot without a cent from smokers.

[FlingWingFlyer]

The potheads in Arizona have thrown out a couple SmokeNazi propositions to be on the ballot this November. We're going to make the whole state a no smoking state and you won't be able to take you children to any bars that allow smoking. You'll still be able to take them to gay bars though as long as smoking is not allowed.

[Fairview]

Now this is something I don't understand about smoking bans. Do smokers say, "I can't smoke as conveniently when I'm bowling, therefore I'm giving up bowling"? Or "I have to smoke in a restricted area when I go out to dinner, so I'm never going to go out to dinner again"? This is hard to understand. You'd all really rather give up a sport or entertainment you love rather than be inconvenienced?

[SheLion]

Here's what "I" say:

If, as a citizen, society does not cater to my interests, why should I cater to the interests of society?

[SheLion]

I wonder what effect the ban on marijuana is having on businesses.

Sorry, but pot is illegal.  Cigarettes are not.

[SheLion]

Is there some reason a private business owner cannot state his smoking preference in advance, and not violate the rights of his patrons and employees?

When Big Tobacco fell to their knees in front of the Attorney Generals and the Tobacco Settlement was born, all that money went to special interest groups such as the highly paid professional anti-smokers.  And what is so sick is............they are using our tax dollars to fund all the control, bans and restrictions.

If all smokers would roll their own or quit, that well would run dry and put all those idiots out of business.

[SheLion]

Everything is going exactly as planned. Soon most bars will be forced to close. If only the 1920's prohibitionists could have been as smart. They didn't need to outlaw booze in bars, all they needed to do was outlaw smoking.

Big Liquor's balls are much bigger!

Everything is going exactly as planned. Soon most bars will be forced to close. If only the 1920's prohibitionists could have been as smart. They didn't need to outlaw booze in bars, all they needed to do was outlaw smoking.

Big Liquor's balls are much bigger!

[IslandJeff]

We actually have a few "smoke-easies" here in Seattle, which, of course went the NicoNazi route. Just like during Prohibition, it's all word-of-mouth and the gendarme have better things to do, and that's assuming no, um, "insurance" payout.

Our own illegitimately-elected Governor (Queen Christine) was one of the lead attorneys/jackals that extorted that "settlement".

Right before our very eyes, America. And I don't smoke.

[Shion]

Now this is something I don't understand about smoking bans. Do smokers say, "I can't smoke as conveniently when I'm bowling, therefore I'm giving up bowling"?

Having been a smoker for 10 years, I perhaps can clarify:

First off, some of these places may be very cold, it sucks to have to gear up and park yourself exactly 100 feet from the entrance while shielding yourself from the elements, every time you want a cigarette.

Second, it sucks to be somewhere where you have a habit (pun not intended) of doing something, like having a beer and sitting with friends, and usually smoking, and suddenly have to change your routine. I've seen more coffee shops die because they've changed their smoking rules to more than 100 feet away from the entrance, which happens to be farther out than all the places to sit.

Lastly, and most importantly, some of us get pissed off when health Nazis try to tell adults what they can and can not do with their own damn lungs.

[tubebender]

Smoking bans in Calif have been a boom for Indian Casinos here but it is giving these people a excuse to gamble...

[SheLion]

The potheads in Arizona have thrown out a couple SmokeNazi propositions to be on the ballot this November. We're going to make the whole state a no smoking state and you won't be able to take you children to any bars that allow smoking. You'll still be able to take them to gay bars though as long as smoking is not allowed.

	Tax: AZ Tax Tax Alert
	Posted by samantha on Thursday, June 29 @ 15:57:46 EDT ( Read More... | 3309 bytes more | Tax | Score: 0)

	People Ban: AZ State Update Latest smoking ban proposal less restrictive.  A group backed by Arizona liquor interests is making a last-minute push to get a limited smoking ban on the November ballot.
	Posted by samantha on Friday, May 26 @ 12:56:09 EDT ( Read More... | 19690 bytes more | People Ban | Score: 3)

	Big Pharmaceutical: AZ Anti gets a $965,000. grant AZ Anti gets a $965,000. grant to study nicotine and smoking cessation
	Posted by samantha on Sunday, January 15 @ 08:39:52 EST ( Read More... | 3715 bytes more | Big Pharmaceutical | Score: 5)

[Lancer_N3502A]

That's what they were designed to do. We can't have business being owned by private citizens now can we.

[SheLion]

Now this is something I don't understand about smoking bans. Do smokers say, "I can't smoke as conveniently when I'm bowling, therefore I'm giving up bowling"? Or "I have to smoke in a restricted area when I go out to dinner, so I'm never going to go out to dinner again"? This is hard to understand. You'd all really rather give up a sport or entertainment you love rather than be inconvenienced?

And why do you think we want to spend our money at  a recreation that won't accommodate us?  We understand about not smoking in Government buildings and grocery stores, etc, but when it's our time it's our dime.

You hit the nail on the head when you said "inconvenienced."  Why should we spend our good money to be "inconvenienced???  No way!

Like I keep saying:

If, as a citizen, society does not cater to my interests, why should I cater to the interests of society?

[SheLion]

First off, some of these places may be very cold, it sucks to have to gear up and park yourself exactly 100 feet from the entrance while shielding yourself from the elements, every time you want a cigarette.

Second, it sucks to be somewhere where you have a habit (pun not intended) of doing something, like having a beer and sitting with friends, and usually smoking, and suddenly have to change your routine. I've seen more coffee shops die because they've changed their smoking rules to more than 100 feet away from the entrance, which happens to be farther out than all the places to sit.

You are SO right!

And up here in the cold arctic of northern Maine, going outside to smoke is asinine!

[SheLion]

If you would like to be on or off my puff ping list, please freep mail me!

[Moonman62]

When small businesses account for about two-thirds of our country's economic growth and new jobs, it is difficult to comprehend elected officials' reasoning in voting to implement an intrusive ordinance which will hurt those same business owners.

How blatantly dishonest. Smokey bars do not make up all small businesses.

[BLS]

"If all smokers would roll their own or quit, that well would run dry and put all those idiots out of business."


Then the (my word) socio-Nazi's would just go after someone else. Probably overweight people. They'll shut down McDonalds.

[Moonman62]

The other bars need to find out what Floyd's and Sammy's are doing right.

[SheLion]

How blatantly dishonest. Smokey bars do not make up all small businesses.

And this coming from one of the biggest anti-smoker's in Free Republic.  Gosh, aren't you happy to be an Conservative???  heh!

[SheLion]

Then the (my word) socio-Nazi's would just go after someone else. Probably overweight people. They'll shut down McDonalds.

Well, you know the saying "When they came for the Jews........I was silent because I wasn't a Jew......."

We have tried and tried to warn everyone, but no one listened until it was too late.

The business owners thought the smoking bans couldn't happen to them.  Now, what do they do????

[SheLion]

The other bars need to find out what Floyd's and Sammy's are doing right.

~tisk ~tisk

[Moonman62]

I've been seeing towns in tobacco growing country implementing bans. It must suck to be a smoker.

[BLS]

"The business owners thought the smoking bans couldn't happen to them. Now, what do they do????"


Well they're screwed. People that don't smoke don't normally hang out in bars. I know around here folks just started having house parties. Everyone BYOB and BYOC.

Can't tell a man that he can't smoke a legal product in his own home. At least not yet.

[Moonman62]

A restaurant owner who does not permit smoking will see it as a violation of his property rights

The same old property rights squeal from people who like to pollute other people's air, stink up other people's hair and clothing, and then throw their butts and ashes on other people's property (most of them anyway).

[BLS]

"The same old property rights squeal from people who like to pollute other people's air, stink up other people's hair and clothing, and then throw their butts and ashes on other people's property (most of them anyway)."


I'm a non-smoker. I don't like to be covered in that smell. So I dont go places that allow smoking. It's someone's PRIVATE business. Not the governments' and not some anti-smoking socio-nazi.

[lewislynn]

Smoking bans are killing private businesses!!!!

But to listen to you guys I thought smokers were the champions of small business owners...No one said you can't go there, you just can't smoke there.

Hey business owner, selfish crybaby smokers are not your friends.

[SheLion]

I've been seeing towns in tobacco growing country implementing bans. It must suck to be a smoker.

If you don't "live" in these towns, you have no say.

[supercat]

The same old property rights squeal from people who like to pollute other people's air, stink up other people's hair and clothing, and then throw their butts and ashes on other people's property (most of them anyway).

If I want to run a bar where people can smoke, just whose property rights are the smokers supposedly not respecting? I decided I'd rather put up with the smoke than have them take their business elsewhere. Most of my employees probably smoke, but any that don't have decided they'd rather put up with the smoke than seem employment elsewhere. About half my customers smoke, and those that don't have decided they'd rather put up with the smoke than go somewhere else.

So exactly whose property rights are being infringed?

Note: I don't smoke, personally, and don't particularly like smoke. But I find the stench of nanny-statism to be far more offensive.

[SheLion]

Well they're screwed. People that don't smoke don't normally hang out in bars. I know around here folks just started having house parties. Everyone BYOB and BYOC.

Can't tell a man that he can't smoke a legal product in his own home. At least not yet.

That's what we have been doing here in Maine.  Going to each other's homes to party.  And we are quite comfortable.  Doesn't feel like a reform school setting.  Plus, we say money.

[supercat]

No one said you can't go there, you just can't smoke there.

People spend money in bars, restaurants, etc. with the intention of having a good time. When the smoke gnatsies interfere with a person's enjoyment of a bar, restaurant, etc. why should the person spend money if he's not going to enjoy himself?

[SheLion]

The same old property rights squeal from people who like to pollute other people's air, stink up other people's hair and clothing, and then throw their butts and ashes on other people's property (most of them anyway).

Gosh!  You must be SO proud to be a Republican!!!!!!!!!! 

[blondee123]

Soon most bars will be forced to close. If only the 1920's prohibitionists could have been as smart. They didn't need to outlaw booze in bars, all they needed to do was outlaw smoking.

No, no way will they ever ban alcohol, what would old Teddy do without his booze! Of course, he'd say his drinking isn't hurting anyone, like our smoking is.

Of course, maybe if he hadn't been drinking all those years ago, he wouldn't have gone off the bridge, but he didn't get hurt, so it's OK!

[SheLion]

I'm a non-smoker. I don't like to be covered in that smell. So I dont go places that allow smoking. It's someone's PRIVATE business. Not the governments' and not some anti-smoking socio-nazi.

There you go.  When non-smokers don't want to be around cigarette smoke, they choose to go to another place.  No one is holding a gun to their heads, right?

I know smoking isn't for everyone, but there are quite a few of us that love it.  And we are FREEPERS!

In fact, the Freeper cruise they had not to long ago was a smoking cruise.  I sure wish I could have gone!!!

[SheLion]

But to listen to you guys I thought smokers were the champions of small business owners...No one said you can't go there, you just can't smoke there.

Hey business owner, selfish crybaby smokers are not your friends.

AND ANOTHER ANTI-SMOKER FREEPER HEARD FROM!

[SheLion]

Note: I don't smoke, personally, and don't particularly like smoke. But I find the stench of nanny-statism to be far more offensive.

[SheLion]

No, no way will they ever ban alcohol, what would old Teddy do without his booze! Of course, he'd say his drinking isn't hurting anyone, like our smoking is.

Of course, maybe if he hadn't been drinking all those years ago, he wouldn't have gone off the bridge, but he didn't get hurt, so it's OK!

LOL! Gawd, I can't STAND that idiot!!!

   

[SheLion]

Oh brother

US fast-food chains sued over carcinogenic chicken
Yahoo! ^ | Sep 28, 2006 | Associated Press

Posted on 09/29/2006 12:53:21 AM EDT by bamahead

WASHINGTON (AFP) - A US doctors' group has sued seven leading fast-food chains including McDonald's and Burger King over their use of a "dangerous carcinogenic" in grilled chicken.

The Washington-based Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM) filed suit in California Thursday "to compel the restaurants to warn unsuspecting consumers".

The group said every sample of grilled chicken products from the seven national chains "tested positive for a dangerous carcinogenic compound called PhIP" during analysis at an independent laboratory.

PhIP is one of a group of carcinogenic compounds called heterocyclic amines (HCAs) that are found in grilled meat. In 2005, the US government officially added HCAs to its list of cancer-causing agents, the doctors' group said.

"Grilled chicken can cause cancer, and consumers deserve to know that this supposedly healthy product is actually just as bad for them as high-fat fried chicken," PCRM president Neal Barnard said in a statement.