Posted on 09/30/2006 3:20:05 AM PDT by SheLion
SEATTLE -- Non-tribal casinos have already lost tens of millions of dollars because of Washington’s new indoor smoking ban.
A new financial study, conducted by our own KIRO Team 7 Investigators, discovers taxpayers could loose millions as well.
Card-rooms, charity bingo halls, and some bars and restaurants are required to report financial information to the state every year. The state hasn't had a chance to look at the figures since the smoking ban took effect. I have. It looks like "no smoking" means economic devastation for the non-tribal gaming industry.
If there was ever any doubt that gamblers are also smokers, these numbers put that to rest.
KIRO Team 7 Investigators have been tracking revenue figures for 30 of the largest non-tribal casinos in Washington.
Before the smoking ban, that group had been averaging increased revenues of 13 percent the first 6 months of each year. Since the ban, instead of jumping up another 13 percent, gross revenues fell 14 percent.
“It’s killing us!”, says Tom Myers of the All-Star Casino & Lanes in Silverdale. He figures his poker room profits are down about 30 percent. Bar revenues have slipped worse than that.
Myers told KIRO Team 7 Investigators, “I'd like to be optimistic and think it will come back or at least level out, but the way the trend is, it's continually declining. You'll see more and more shut down. The stronger ones will survive, but the little-guy that’s creating, in here there are about 60 jobs alone, those jobs are going to go bye-bye if things go that way.”
Our exclusive research also found that during the first six months of telling gamblers that have to go outside to light up:
29 of the 30 biggest non-tribal casinos reported declining revenue. Several reported losses in excess of 40 percent.
“It’s devastating.” Says Dolores Chiechi of the Washington Recreational Gaming Association.
She says a half dozen casinos have already shut the doors & more are in real financial trouble. She adds many customers are heading to tribal casinos where they can smoke without leaving the table.
“They're definitely feeling the crunch because those who do gamble will always have somewhere else to go. They’ll go to the tribe casinos because they don't have to comply with the initiative rules that passed in November.”
The revenue shift is hard on state and local tax coffers as well. Tribal gaming operations pay about 2 percent back in local taxes. Non-tribal card rooms can pay up to 20 percent of gross receipts to taxes.
Myers adds, “The playing field need to be leveled. It's so lop-sided one way. It's tough to pay the bills let alone the taxes plus everything else you have to take care of to stay open.”
Ironically, Several of Washington's largest youth sports associations will likely also be seeing a dip in revenue this year.
Charity Bingo halls generate the majority of income for some local soccer, football, and swimming clubs.
Early figures show nearly every bingo hall in the state has lost money.
The State Gambling Commission is just now starting to look at the same numbers we've been crunching. That agency expects a full, detailed report in 6-8 weeks.
Dammit, maybe I am a crank, and my spelling and grammar are not always perfect but this is really starting to make me crazy!
Are they LOSING millions, or are they RELEASING millions?
This was not a post by a freeper, it is from a Media Outlet. Someone's parents took out a mortgage to send this person to school.
They would have been better off going to a casino with it.
Good lessons can be painful. Unfortunately, the pain will be suffered by low-income workers and not the SOBs who come up with this stuff.
This is clearly a case of the majority stepping on the rights of the minority. That seems to be okay on some issues but definitely not on other issues.
What are you talking about? I posted this article and yes, I am a Freeper. I didn't WRITE the story, I just posted it.
They would have been better off going to a casino with it.
Not using the spell checker aside, the point of this article is: SMOKING BANS ARE CHOKING THE ECONOMY!
And it's not just the employee's that are laid off or have hours cut back. It also trickles down to the vendors who supply the Casino's. They, too, will be used less for supplies.
Pennsylvania is starting to ban smoking all over the state. They better get an exemption for their Casino's and take a lesson from this.
Check out the Newsletter, updated weekly for news in your area:
Grrrr. All the smoking prohibitions are allegedly out of concern for public health. So what are we to presume? That no one cares about patrons and workers at casinos that happen to be run by Indians?! Sounds racist to me.
Well its hard to say but gambling isnt all that great either.
Perhaps what this article is really telling us is that gamblers are addictive people.
It seems like most states this one likes the revenue from Gambling and Cigarette taxes ,but they are cutting their own throats by passing laws hurting business. They seem to forget that if people dont want to be around smokers they can stay out of these places.Isnt it great how do-gooders always stick their noses in where they arent wanted?
They pass helmet laws, seat belt laws, no smoking laws, laws that protect us from ourselves, when they should just
mind their own friggin business.
That is what I said. If something is posted by a human being, as opposed to a journalist, I tend to ignore typos, etc.
I was basicaly agreeing with you.
On a local note, we had a K of C hall that had bingo games.
They decided to ban smoking.
Gamblers are risk takers, and most are willing to smoke.
So..No one ever came to the games any more. Rather than back down, they simply gave up having bingo games.
I was basicaly agreeing with you.
On a local note, we had a K of C hall that had bingo games.
They decided to ban smoking.
Gamblers are risk takers, and most are willing to smoke.
So..No one ever came to the games any more. Rather than back down, they simply gave up having bingo games.
Oh ~whew. Ok! 
I read your post before I had finished my first cup of coffee.
Well, we all know how gambling on the Net is running wild. A person can get on the Net from home, not get dressed, smoke, drink and gamble to their hearts content.
So, if their local Casino no longer permits smoking, they can always do it from the comfort of their own home. :)
Slight modification, if it's okay with you.
;-)
"So what are we to presume? That no one cares about patrons and workers at casinos that happen to be run by Indians?!"
The reservations are largely sovereign in such matters. I presume the tribal leadership sees the stupidity of it all, and refuses to follow suit.
And the nanny do-gooders are getting worse every day. No more live and let live. There is always some group today that wants to conform us to their way of thinking.
Just shoot me first. I was brought up with Freedom of Choice.
Sounds good to ME, Randall!!! 
I always enjoy watching these moonbats shoot themselves in the foot with the "Nanny State" mentality. Now the DemoRats will be screaming that tax revenues are lower and will have to raise taxes.
Bravo Sierra
Didn't I hear recently that Congress wants to outlaw on-line gambling?
We wanted to stay at the marriott, it's a better hotel, it's closer to our destination for the evening....but I requested a smoking room. The "reservation specialist" replied " Thank you, I have noted your request".
She then confirmed my reservation as if all was fine. I received an immediate email confirming my reservation and it informs me that marriotts are going non-smoking. Thats fine but as far as I'm concerned the employee lied to me by not disclosing that this hotel is already non- smoking.
So I cancelled not because either of us chain smoke ( I like a occasional cigar and she smokes maybe 10 ciggeretts a week.) I cancelled because they felt they had to lie to us to get our buisness.
Were off to a Red Roof Inn, because they will accomadate us. By the way its remodeled and I got a deal thats about 1/3 rd the Marriott.
Which is why I now support all the new sin taxes. We need new taxes on Twinkies, all fast food, pop, and especially sporting goods. NYC is planning a ban on trans fat in food: great.
One argument was that smokers cost society money, fine. So do all the people who are out doing sporting events. Runners? They fall down. Mountain climers? They get lost or break bones by falling down. All these sporting people are a drain on society.
We need to raise taxes on any behavior that costs society money.
Having smokers go outside to light up in the middle of a gambling session gives the individual smoker an opportunity to get away from the table and perhaps leave with his winnings or leave and cut his losses.
This ban has some effect on the number of customers, but it has a greater effect on the amount each sucker drops at the table.
Casino owners know this, this why they lobbied the Pennsylvania legislators to permit smoking at our new casinos, regardless of local law.
I doubt it has any serious effect on the national economy. Sure businesses that depend on smokers get whacked, but overall it is probably a slight positive for the national economy.
Colorado passed a ban too, but exempted casino's. Same reason, pressure and the money they bring in.
Well, they can't have it both ways. And it's the taxpayer that usually suffers.
They want to do a lot of things. And how about Net Porn running rampant? And they want to outlaw cigarette sales over the Net as well.
I'm not a gambler and I am not into porn, but as for cigarettes, I don't think it's the states right to know how I spend my money!
the point of this article is: SMOKING BANS ARE CHOKING THE ECONOMY!
She then confirmed my reservation as if all was fine. I received an immediate email confirming my reservation and it informs me that marriotts are going non-smoking. Thats fine but as far as I'm concerned the employee lied to me by not disclosing that this hotel is already non- smoking.
So I cancelled not because either of us chain smoke ( I like a occasional cigar and she smokes maybe 10 ciggeretts a week.) I cancelled because they felt they had to lie to us to get our buisness.
Were off to a Red Roof Inn, because they will accomadate us. By the way its remodeled and I got a deal thats about 1/3 rd the Marriott.
There is a thread on Free Republlic about the Westin Hotels all going smoke free. Here is the link so you can ck it out!
Which mean we all need to sit in a corner and rock our selves to death! ugh! What a world.
"I doubt it has any serious effect on the national economy. Sure businesses that depend on smokers get whacked, but overall it is probably a slight positive for the national economy."
You agree that businesses that depend on smokers get whacked, but believe that the net result is a slight positive for the national economy. What causes that "slight positive"?
I have also heard cases of people running up big bar bills, and then going outside to have a cigarette and they just keep on going.
The Smoker's Rights Group in PA are working hard to prevent the lawmakers from including the Casino's in the ban. They can also use this article as proof that a smoking ban is killing businesses.
I have also heard cases of people running up big bar bills, and then going outside to have a cigarette and they just keep on going.
The Smoker's Rights Group in PA are working hard to prevent the lawmakers from including the Casino's in the ban. They can also use this article as proof that a smoking ban is killing businesses.
Mr. Bond will not be gambling in Washington state.
Agreed, and that's my point. Taxes are a necessary evil but they should be fair across the board for any product. Government needs to get out of the business of helping one industry or another.
I hate to differ with you, but you are dead wrong.
Hundreds of private businesses across the United States and Europe have been forced to close or cut back because of these bans. And I'm not talking just Casino's. I'm talking restaurants, bars, taverns, bowling alleys, sports inns. You name it.
When a business loses 25-30% of their revenue, it's going to hurt, bad!
The following is a list in Illinois alone:
28 September 2006
Following are actual statistics reflecting examples of the negative impact upon individual businesses following the recently instituted smoking ban ordinances, effective in Springfield, Illinois and surrounding unincorporated Sangamon County this September 15, 2006 (less than two weeks ago).
When small businesses account for about two-thirds of our country's economic growth and new jobs, it is difficult to comprehend elected officials' reasoning in voting to implement an intrusive ordinance which will hurt those same business owners.
A restaurant owner who does not permit smoking will see it as a violation of his property rights if a coalition uses the political arena to create legislation forcing him to permit smoking. It is no less a property rights violation in reverse. If a restaurant owner wishes to permit smoking, he might put up a “Smoking Permitted” sign and let potential patrons decide whether they wish to enter. Similarly, if an owner doesn’t permit smoking, he might put up a “No Smoking” sign and again let the customers decide.
SNAPSHOT OF SMOKING BAN IMPACT ON BARS & BOWLING CENTERS IN SPRINGFIELD AND UNINCORPORATED SANGAMON COUNTY:
D.H. Browns—business down more than 50%
- The last time Brown’s had a Monday as low as the first Monday of the ban was 8 years ago during a snowstorm.
- Brown’s will likely have to lay off their doormen—on top of the lost employment, this will increase the chances of underage drinkers violating the law.
- Two (2) waitresses informed management that they will have to give their notice and try to get a job in one of the neighboring communities that permit smoking because they are no longer making any money.
Track Shack—business down 42%
- For the first time, the owner had to draw money out of his personal funds to pay Track Shack’s bills.
American Legion Post # 32—business down more than 50%
Floyd’s—business down, but not substantially
JW’s Lounge—business down over 40%
Stadium—business down 40%
- 10 people in bar, 43 in Beer Garden on Wednesday night, numbers similar on the other nights.
Cheers—business down more than 50%
- $400 to $500 previous average daily sales—haven’t had one night over $200 since the ban went into effect.
Bernie & Betty’s—business down 40%
Knuckleheads—business down 40%
Mac’s Lounge—business down more than 25%
- Customers who were regulars prior to the ban have been calling Mac’s to tell them what a great time they were having at the Curve Inn in Southern View where smoking is permitted.
Sammy’s—business down, but not substantially
VFW Northender—business down, but percentage is unknown
- Waitress made a total of $14 in tips during her shift on Monday, and $17 on Tuesday—substantially lower than past experience.
Spillway Lanes—bar business is down more than 25%
- Lost 10 bowling teams since ban, gained only 1.
Black Dog Saloon, Winner’s Circle & Teasers had to close over 2 hours early this week due to lack of customers
______________________________
Garnet Dawn - The Smoker's Club, Inc. - Midwest Regional Director
The United Pro Choice Smokers Rights Newsletter - http://www.smokersclubinc.com
Illinois Smokers Rights - Illinois Smokers Forum - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/illinoissmokers/
Another one:
And more: THE REAL FACTS OF THE SMOKING BANS IMPACT ON BUSINESS'S
The Facts
Anything that puts a legal business out of business in today's world is horrifying.
Agreed, and that's my point. Taxes are a necessary evil but they should be fair across the board for any product. Government needs to get out of the business of helping one industry or another.
How many times have you heard that a state has to raise cigarette taxes to "balance the state budget?" Now, why on earth is one small percentage of the people in the state forced to carry the weight of a state budget?
We have been crying foul over this for a long time. They say they want smoke free, yet they can't balance a state budget without the smokers tax dollars??!
The lawmakers talk out of both sides of their mouths!
Thanks so much for that link to the Smokers' Rights Newsletter--what an outstanding resource!
And--have a great day, FRiend. ;-D
Judith Anne, it's a wonderful source for finding out what is happening in every state in the Union AND overseas.
Updated weekly, Samantha works her hiney off getting that Newsletter out! It's wonderful!
Have a wonderful day there! And thanks for stopping in! :)
Always nice to have coffee and a smoke in the morning with a FRiend, SL.
Bump to the thread, too. ;-D
I've followed this issue very closely for several years, enough to say what happens in the long-term.
Casinos and other gambling enterprises lose between 15% to 20% of revenue when smoking bans are introduced. Revenue slowly recovers to pre-ban levels after about two years (not to the rate revenue was increasing before but just to pre-ban levels) as some smokers adjust and more non-smokers go into the casinos.
Bars lose 20% of revenue on average and recover to pre-ban levels within about a year. The impact, however, is not general across the board. Some bars are effected very heavily and never recover. Others are not hit that hard and recover quicker and go on to increasing revenue in a short time.
Restaurants, however, seem to do better. The non-smoking environment brings more non-smokers in and restaurants most often see a 10% increase in business after a smoking ban.
Was this article written by an angry FReeper?
Tobacco is one of the Four Sacred Plants, anyway.
It's cultural and appropriate for tobacco to have a place.
It allows them to be smugly superior, and feel good about Saving The Earth and Bringing the Workers' Paradise, while plundering a group who has fallen from disfavor and has no power.
Give me a second, I need to crank up the turntable so I can put on my broken record: These legislatures doing what we don't want them to do are the same legislatures who would be voting on naturalized citizens being eligible for the presidency and other possible constitutional amendments. They cannot be counted on to prevent a President Ahnold or President Jennifer, nor prevent James and Joseph from getting hitched across the land if it comes down to an amendment. The Framers assumed responsive state legislatures, but these are anything but.
Indian casinos are a rotten scam and no one will ever change my mind about these so called "sovereign nations" and the end run around US laws while they profit off of US citizens. 90% of casino tribes got their casinos via connected Democrat lawyers who greased the skids for them in various state legislatures and the federal government. Where rag tag bands of rascals with 25% Indian blood get tribal status - needed to get casinos
If that pet peeve makes you a crank, then I've been one for years! I've been railing against misuse of the apostrophe for 20 years myself. Dagnabbit, use an apostrophe for the possessive, not the plural!
Stay at home smokers possibly saving more.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.