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Serbs see Kosovo lost despite wishful thinking
Reuters ^ | September 29, 2006 | Matt Robinson

Posted on 09/30/2006 7:13:34 AM PDT by tgambill

BELGRADE – Just 12 percent of Serbs believe Serbia will hold on to its Kosovo province, according to the results of an opinion poll published on Friday that fly in the face of Belgrade's official line. Fifty-eight percent said they wanted the United Nations-administered province to remain part of Serbia, but few believe it is a realistic expectation, said pollster Marko Blagojevic.

'We have two dimensions here. One emotional, and the other rational,' said Blagojevic, of the respected Centre for Free Elections and Democracy (CeSID).

Serbian leaders 'managed to convince the people they want Kosovo to remain part of Serbia, but simply did not make a good enough case for them to expect this,' he said.

The United Nations is expected to decide within months whether to grant Kosovo a form of supervised independence, seven years after NATO wrested control of the majority Albanian province to stop what it said was becoming a bloodbath.

Serbia says Kosovo's amputation would violate international law and embolden ethnic separatists across Europe.

Parliament is poised to adopt a new state constitution that enshrines Kosovo as Serb land forever. Rhetoric plays constantly on its almost mythic status, the Serbs' Orthodox heartland and site of their epic 1389 defeat by the Ottoman Turks.

But of two million people who live there, 90 percent are ethnic Albanians who lost 10,000 people in the 1998-99 conflict and would see any return to Serb rule as a fresh call to war.

Diplomats say independence is almost certain.

According to the CeSID poll, conducted between Aug 26 and Sept 5, 36 percent said they expected independence. Seventeen percent thought the territory would be split in two, with Serbia taking a thin slice of mainly Serb land in the north.

Only 12 percent thought Kosovo would remain an autonomous region of Serbia, while 29 percent were unsure.

Serbs and Albanians opened direct talks in February in Vienna but there has been no compromise on the central issue of Kosovo's future status. U.N. mediator Martti Ahtisaari is expected to propose a solution by November which


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: balkans; ihoppy; kosovo; pancakeboy; toothlessdhimmi
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"But of two million people who live there, 90 percent are ethnic Albanians who lost 10,000 people in the 1998-99 conflict and would see any return to Serb rule as a fresh call to war."

****The absolute and total lies are continuously printed as truth and assumed to be correct by the naive readers that read this trash. The next question will be to Mr. Robinson would be, why don't you research your articles properly. Or, are you part of the lying scheme cooked by the Clinton Administration.

1 posted on 09/30/2006 7:13:37 AM PDT by tgambill
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To: tgambill

Thank you Bill Clinton.


2 posted on 09/30/2006 7:19:03 AM PDT by BW2221
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DAMN YOU FOR THIS, BILL KLINTON, DAMN YOU!!


3 posted on 09/30/2006 7:19:28 AM PDT by Vn_survivor_67-68
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To: tgambill
Or, are you part of the lying scheme cooked by the Clinton Administration.

Forget Kosovo, Tom - expound upon Pearl Harbor and how that was a setup.

Enquiring minds want to know how far off the reservation you've slipped.

4 posted on 09/30/2006 7:21:47 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
Forget Kosovo, Tom - expound upon Pearl Harbor and how that was a setup.

You seem to forget we can Google DefSec Cohen's claims that 100,000 Kosovars were missing and feared dead.

Or the claims of bodies thrown down a mine. Or prisoners held in a soccer stadium.

And I find it truly amazing that you always quickly end up on a Balkans thread, no matter when it is posted.

So how many people run your screen name, Hoplite?

5 posted on 09/30/2006 7:24:18 AM PDT by dirtboy (This tagline has been photoshopped)
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To: Hoplite; dirtboy; Bokababe; joan; montyspython; DTA; getoffmylawn; ma bell; Beckwith; ...

Hopeless, it's not slipping. If you will notice hotshot, I'm just posting quotes from people or folks a whole lot smarter and certainly more important than you. So, you need to contact the Admiral or his family and tell them. So, by me posting what was quoted by real people, (unlike you), that I'm slipping. I wasn't there.....if I were I'd be a WHOLE lot older. :)) See how you twist the truth and how you GUARD the BS line from the administration. You give yourself away. You are clearly out of your league. I also baited you....with the strong words and you fell for it like the pigeon that you are.....lolol...:) You are so predictable. Those words were for you Hoplite.... you took the bait. Darn I'm good.

So, give me an accounting of the 10,000 or just shut up and crawl back into your "under sec" spot. I see that you are guarding the spot, as you responded without even looking at the truth. That was actually quicker than I anticipated. Hoppie....for the benefit of those reading on your side, your days are numbered. You are supporting some mighty powerful folks....mighty smart too, mighty evil as well. Every day they sew up their own fate and don't even know it. I almost feel sorry for them. It's like being a Muslim. As the puke they spew, their hearts know it's a lie. But, they are trapped in their own cess pool. Unable to get out due to fear, greed and just plain being too cowardly to fight for the truth......some of us will die for the truth and many have. Many more to come.....It's a pack off the back after a 50 mile forced march, to tell the truth even if death could be the result. Its a serious business and it will become more serious than you can imagine. :)


6 posted on 09/30/2006 7:42:10 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Vn_survivor_67-68

You said in a few words more than I could say in a book. It's not over yet....another war provoked by us in the Balkans is yet to come. We are after Western Macedonia, and eventually South Serbia.......on the way East.


7 posted on 09/30/2006 7:44:30 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: dirtboy

lolol...:)) boy, he is sticking to me like glue..you think? :)))


8 posted on 09/30/2006 7:45:17 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill

If we're still in Kosovo, then that means we've been there longer than we've been in Iraq.....

Therefore, Clinton led us into a war THAT IS STILL GOING ON.

Shocking....simply shocking......


9 posted on 09/30/2006 7:56:06 AM PDT by TheRobb7 (How many Democrats will YOU elect by staying home on Election Day????)
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To: dirtboy
You seem to forget we can Google DefSec Cohen's claims that 100,000 Kosovars were missing and feared dead.

Not really - at the time they were missing and feared dead. What's at question here now is the total deaths due to Milosevic's forces, and we're still waiting for the Belgrade Serbs to have their "Srebrenica Report" moment on that as their cousins in Banja Luka did in 2004 when they disclosed the until then undiscovered remaining Srebrenica-related mass grave sites.

You will recall your recent erroneous assertion as to the number of bodies discovered to date, and subsequent demonstration of an ignorance of and unwillingness to come to terms with the broader issue of the fate of missing persons related to Milosevic's forces in Kosovo. Though demonstrated to be incorrect on more than one point, you never acknowledged your errors, and seem here (as well as on that thread) to think that you can simply plough on, without having to incorporate any changes into your position, which sadly is typical of those holding your views on Kosovo.

So how many people run your screen name, Hoplite?

et tu dirtboy? Do yourself a favor and nip your paranoia in the bud, it'll only bite you on the ass in the end.

10 posted on 09/30/2006 8:05:27 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: tgambill
So you're nothing but an empty vessel for other's views on the matter of Pearl Harbor, simply repeating them without analysis or fact checking?

Sounds about right.

11 posted on 09/30/2006 8:09:43 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: TheRobb7

hi...No, I'm in the Dark continent. I was in Kosovo from 1999 to 2004, but have not lost one day of news or intelligence. I'm heavily involved with the Balkans, literally on a daily, hour by hour basis since I left in May 2004. We started the BS in 1992 until now with longer terms plan unknown by most of the American public that still believe we are in Kosovo because Clinton was trying to take our minds off his........"baby sitting".....:)) lolol

Yes sir, it is still going on, and I have reason to believe that we will provoke more hostilities there.


12 posted on 09/30/2006 8:10:20 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Hoplite

how much fact checking do you REALLY want to know about Hoplite.....Be careful what you wish for you might get embarrassed and once again shamed. I love that you are here, as it makes it easier to sound off and give the facts.......


13 posted on 09/30/2006 8:11:53 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill
how much fact checking do you REALLY want to know about Hoplite

Why all that you see fit to tell me about, Tom - the more, the better.

How was Pearl Harbor a setup?

14 posted on 09/30/2006 8:13:58 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

Hopple, what are your facts...are we still waiting for the government spin and actually incredible ability to manipulate the spin into signficant sources to be presented as fact. Your people would kill people just to make the spin true.


15 posted on 09/30/2006 8:14:39 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Hoplite

well, you seem to be the little errand boy for the main spinners. However, since I wasn't born until after WWII, unlike you, being an old man of course, I have to rely upon something you know little about. It's called Research for good sources. fact checking is what I've been doing, and the result has been disheartening to say the least.


16 posted on 09/30/2006 8:19:19 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill
Hopple, what are your facts...

Right now the only fact I'm dealing with is your inability or unwillingness to answer my question as to how Pearl Harbor was a setup.

17 posted on 09/30/2006 8:20:18 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

"Analysis"...

oh, you mean, proper spinning methodolgy......your specialty.


18 posted on 09/30/2006 8:20:53 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Hoplite

Well actually, I will answer on Monday, or maybe tomorrow. We are closing shop now, and this is the way the Dark Continent is....limited internet.

I will have two answers for you on the mass grave issue and if you want to....the WWII "setup".....it's quite interesting. You will find that I'm never unable or unwilling to answer....know why? Because, I'm always open to learning something new if I'm wrong, teaching those teachable if I'm right, and always, "willing" if she is single and good looking.....lololol....:))


19 posted on 09/30/2006 8:24:50 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Hoplite
Not really - at the time they were missing and feared dead.

Like heck. It was pure spin.

What's at question here now is the total deaths due to Milosevic's forces

And a lovely attempt to spin your way out of this one. The issue you belittled was the propaganda used to justify the war. I showed that propaganda was false.

What's at question here now is the total deaths due to Milosevic's forces

You will recall your recent erroneous assertion as to the number of bodies discovered to date,

What is it, a few thousand, many of whom the ethnicity cannot be determined? That's a far cry from the numbers being bandied about prior to and during the intervention. This was a low-grade civil war, not a genocide. That has been my point all along. Your spin will not change that, as well as the subsequent reality that, in the pursuit of blocking a bogus ethnic cleansing of Albanians, Nato instead set the stage for an ACTUAL ethnic cleansing of Serbs.

Do yourself a favor and nip your paranoia in the bud, it'll only bite you on the ass in the end.

Nothing like a non-denial denial, Hoplite. I will say right here that I am one person. I've met plenty of freepers. You, however, are always available on short notice at all times to post on Balkans threads. Hmmmm....

20 posted on 09/30/2006 9:10:57 AM PDT by dirtboy (This tagline has been photoshopped)
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To: Hoplite
I'm dealing with is your inability or unwillingness to answer my question as to how Pearl Harbor was a setup.

He never claimed such. Talk about the mother of all strawman posts. If that's all you've got left, stick a fork in you, you're done.

21 posted on 09/30/2006 9:11:55 AM PDT by dirtboy (This tagline has been photoshopped)
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To: dirtboy
I showed that propaganda was false.

By accounting for all the military-age K-Albanian males during the relevant time frame?

Well you have my hearty congratulations then. Please direct me to the specific post wherein you accomplish this Herculean task.

Nothing like a non-denial denial, Hoplite.

In response to a non-issue issue, that's all you're going to get. Deal with this particular delusion however you see fit.


He never claimed such.

You might want to tell Tom, 'cause if that's the case, I wonder what WWII "setup" he's referring to.

22 posted on 09/30/2006 9:29:46 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
By accounting for all the military-age K-Albanian males during the relevant time frame?

No, by showing all the claims were bogus. If NONE of the propaganda claims were proven out, that indicates there was no real intel at the time.

In response to a non-issue issue, that's all you're going to get. Deal with this particular delusion however you see fit.

And another non-denial denial. All you have to do is say "no". Very simple. I've said I'm one person. I can back that up with posters who have met me.

The fact that you refuse to do such speaks volumes, Hoplite.

23 posted on 09/30/2006 9:41:11 AM PDT by dirtboy (This tagline has been photoshopped)
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To: Hoplite
You might want to tell Tom, 'cause if that's the case, I wonder what WWII "setup" he's referring to.

I see no such post on this thread. Perhaps you can tell me where I'm not seeing it. Or maybe it was one of your other team members who saw it on another thread.

24 posted on 09/30/2006 9:42:40 AM PDT by dirtboy (This tagline has been photoshopped)
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: dirtboy
If NONE of the propaganda claims were proven out, that indicates there was no real intel at the time.

Eventually we accounted for the missing Secretary Cohen mentioned, and the number of those murdered by Milosevic's forces has come down to a best estimate of around 10,000, where it will remain until Belgrade discloses the whereabouts of any remaining mass graves, as I alluded to in post # 10. However, until that time, we've recovered more than enough bodies to substantiate then Secretary Cohen's claim of "4,600 Kosovo men executed" made during the same interview as his much more widely quoted statement regarding the 100,000 missing.


Perhaps you can tell me where I'm not seeing it.

I could, but I won't. Let Tom deal with that issue.

26 posted on 09/30/2006 10:10:00 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
Eventually we accounted for the missing Secretary Cohen mentioned,

Hey, I'll say tomorrow that 100,000 Shiites are missing in Iraq. If you account for them a week later, does that make what I said truthful? That seems to be your "logic" here.

And I notice you assiduously avoided the soccer stadium and mine claims I mentioned. Those were proven to be false as well. It isn't just a single claim. There were MANY that were proven to be bogus.

I could, but I won't. Let Tom deal with that issue.

You are the one who raised it. Show where he said it.

You really need to page whoever was posting yesterday. He/she is a lot better at this. You must be some third-tier weekend help.

27 posted on 09/30/2006 10:22:13 AM PDT by dirtboy (This tagline has been photoshopped)
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To: John Williams

I think Hoplite is actually a gang of posters using the same screen name. Hoplite refuses to deny such on this thread, and all it takes is a simple denial.


28 posted on 09/30/2006 10:23:00 AM PDT by dirtboy (This tagline has been photoshopped)
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To: John Williams
you pop up with some anti-Serb propaganda

It's merely the same "anti-Serb propaganda" used by the present Administration, John.

Perhaps you'd care to review American Balkan policy since President Bush took office and see how it's nothing but heartbreak and pain to our Serb nationalist friends.

Still, if you choose to side with the Serb nationalist dead-enders and drink down the bitter draught of defeat all the while bitching, moaning, and lying your ass off about what transpired in the Balkans, have fun with it. Just be advised to jump ship before Kosovo is granted independence, after which my friends here won't have the luxury of conflating their anti-American agenda with residual Clinton-era policies.

Do you happen to be an ethnic Albanian, Kosovar or a Muslim in general, even? That would explain a lot...

Nope. American by birth anglo saxon with no ties to the region. Sorry to disappoint.

29 posted on 09/30/2006 10:30:49 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
Its your military career that's really disappointing, and along with your self perceived importance, it makes it all that more funny for the rest of us. Keep posting stupid, we can all use the amusement.

Do try and keep your bulbous red nose nice and shiny m'kay?

30 posted on 09/30/2006 12:05:58 PM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: Hoplite; tgambill; Bokababe; Wraith; kronos77; eleni121; ma bell; joan; montyspython; ...
The HOPLITE CLOWN SAYS:
"Forget Kosovo, Tom - expound upon Pearl Harbor
and how that was a setup." BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

"Enquiring minds want to know how far off the reservation you've slipped." BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

"So how many people run your screen name, Hoplite?" BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

 

31 posted on 09/30/2006 1:41:33 PM PDT by Smartass (The stars rule men but God rules the stars)
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To: Hoplite; tgambill; Bokababe; Wraith; kronos77; eleni121; ma bell; joan; montyspython; ...
HOPLITE, since you're so anti- Serbian, tell us some
stories about your real Islamofascist heros? WAITING ...


 

32 posted on 09/30/2006 2:14:11 PM PDT by Smartass (The stars rule men but God rules the stars)
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To: tgambill; Bokababe; Wraith; kronos77; eleni121; ma bell; joan; montyspython; getoffmylawn; ...
Organized Crime in Kosovo

Serb politician: Recent bomb attack against minister shows mafia ruling Kosovo
source: BBC Monitoring Service - United Kingdom
Text of report by Serbian independent news agency FoNet
Saturday, 16 September 2006
Gnjilane, 16 September: A member of the Serb List for Kosovo-Metohija [SLKM, headed by Oliver Ivanovic], Vesna Jovanovic, said today that the bomb thrown on the night from Thursday to Friday [14-15 September] outside the house of a police minister in the Kosovo government, "should primarily be a message to the international community to finally realize how far Standards have gone in the first place and who has the power in Kosovo".

What can ordinary people expect if a bomb is thrown at the police minister, Jovanovic asked. She added that this incident created additional insecurity among the Serbs, who were "between a rock and a hard place ".

"On the one hand, there are Albanians who are hostile towards the Serbs, and on the other is the deeply rooted rule of the mafia in Kosovo, something which this bomb has demonstrated," Jovanovic explained.

The international community should understand the Serb anxiety and fear for their own security and it should respond adequately, not only by issuing declarations, Jovanovic emphasized in a statement for FoNet.

"It is being claimed without any scruples that Standards are being fulfilled, while on the other hand the citizens of Kosovo, especially the Serbs, do not have any fundamental feeling of security," Jovanovic assessed.

She said that "the international community should seriously take into account Serb proposals on how to achieve progress, and not ignore them for the most part".

Source: FoNet news agency, Belgrade, in Serbian 1057 gmt 16 Sep 06
 

 


To NATO:  Get out of, and off of Serbian lands.   Let Serbia control it's own destiny.
 
 
 

33 posted on 09/30/2006 2:28:43 PM PDT by Smartass (The stars rule men but God rules the stars)
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To: Smartass

Serbia claims Kosovo sovereignty

Serbia's parliament has unanimously approved a new constitution that claims sovereignty over the UN administered province of Kosovo.

The move, passed during a special session of parliament, opposes calls for the ethnic Albanian majority in Kosovo to be given independence.

Kosovo has been run by the UN since Nato intervened in 1999 to stop Serbia expelling the ethnic Albanian majority.

The proposed constitution will now face a referendum before it becomes valid.

Serbia's Prime Minister, Vojislav Kostunica, has indicated a referendum would also be followed by early elections, although he has not specified a date.

The UN has been hosting talks on the status of Kosovo; it has said the issue could be resolved this year.

'Integral part'

Mr Kostunica said the country's new constitution would provide a strong legal foundation for Serbia and allow it to move closer to European standards and values.

Mr Kostunica said there was no need to wait for the Kosovo issue to be settled before adopting the new constitution.

Instead, he said it would "cement the truth that Kosovo always has been and always will be an integral part of Serbia".

Until now Serbia has been operating under the old constitution of the former President, Slobodan Milosevic.




Iw just watched parlament session. ALL 242 present members woted FOR constitutin! Newer in my life saw that!
P.M. kostunica allmost yelled:"With this we have claimed Kosovo"


34 posted on 09/30/2006 2:43:54 PM PDT by kronos77 (www.savekosovo.org and www.kosovo.net Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: kronos77; Bokababe; tgambill; joan; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; ...
Well, it's about time, and way over due...
Kosovo is now, and will always belong to Serbia. The UN, and/or NATO have no business intervening in a sovereign nation, nor have they the authority to partition said nation. The faster the Serbian government tells these meddlers to leave, the faster business in Kosovo will be resolved, instead of becoming another Islamofascist Balkans stronghold.

 

35 posted on 09/30/2006 3:04:18 PM PDT by Smartass (The stars rule men but God rules the stars)
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To: tgambill; Bokababe; kronos77; joan; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; ...

THE EVILS OF MOHAMMAD'S ISLAM

Here's a pathetic story that can apply to any Islamic
controlled country, Bosnia and Kosovo included.




 
Iran : A 17 year old girl is sentenced to death by hanging.

Amnesty International calls for end to death penalty for child offenders.
Thank you Amnesty International and thanks to all the friends who wrote to Amnesty International. Please keep writing to the Office of High Commissioner of Human Rights: tb-petitions@ohchr.org

Although AI calls Nazanin a "child offender", Nazanin is guilty of no offense. Self defense cannot be considered offense.

Nazanin, 17,  was sentenced to death by hanging for defending herself against three rapists.

A young girl who defended herself and her chastity against three male assailants who intended to kidnap and rape her causing injury to one of them who later died in hospital was condemned to death by hanging in an Islamic court in Iran. Nazanin who has seen no more than 17 Springs, all of which under the tyrannical rule of the Mullahs is now facing execution for trying to defend herself and her honor.

No where in the world and under no law self defense is considered to be a crime, but in the tyrannical mullacracy of Iran if a woman does not resist rape she will be stoned as adulterer and if she does she will be hanged.

Nazanin, this young innocent girl, was assaulted by three criminal men in the West of Tehran while strolling with her niece in a park last March (2005). To defend herself she pulled out a knife and stabbed one of her assailants. The knife penetrated the ribs of her attacker who later died in the hospital. The attacks on women in Iran is so frequent that many are forced to carry a concealed weapon for self defense. Unfortunately the Islamic law does not even allow women that right.

Despite the fact that she had been acting in self defense, as shown by the evidences presented and the testimony of eyewitnesses, Nazanin was sentenced to death by hanging. In the last court hearing she repeatedly said “I only defended myself and the honor of my family”. Her words fell of deaf ears and the all male jury who like their misogynist prophet thought it is outrageous for a woman to stand for her rights and defend her dignity and honor, swiftly ordered her execution.

The travesty of justice in Islamic Republic of Iran is beyond description. Please send this news to all the newspapers big and small. Please do not allow this crime go unnoticed. This girl is an innocent flower in the hands of ferocious beasts. Do not allow them to nip her young life in the bud. Let us together provoke an outcry so loud that the ruling thugs in Iran can’t ignore."

Nazanin was hanged by her neck until dead. Her death scene very likely resembled that of another public hanging of an Iranian woman shown in the photographs below. The victim resembles a crude rag doll. Women are little more than that in the evil domain of Islam.

 


 

36 posted on 09/30/2006 3:17:26 PM PDT by Smartass (The stars rule men but God rules the stars)
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Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

To: tgambill; Bokababe; kronos77; joan; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; ...

Feature

Election of "virtual" women's government highlights inequality in Serbia

When all the votes were counted, the two top jobs went to women: the post of Prime Minister to senior Democratic Party official Ruzica Djindjic, wife of the late Prime Minister Zoran Djindjic, and that of Deputy Prime Minister to the current incumbent, Ivana Dulic Markovic.

But this was no ordinary election. The ballot, organized by the OSCE, the European Movement in Serbia and the daily Blic, was for the election of a "virtual" women's government, designed to highlight the fact that although there are many capable and highly qualified women in Serbia, not enough of them are in senior political positions.

Promoting equal participation

"The Serbian political arena is largely dominated and defined by men, who usually have the more visible political roles," said Zorica Mrsevic, an OSCE Gender Adviser, "but there are many women working hard in the background." Some of them already manage and lead various institutions. Tanja Miscevic, for example, heads the government office dealing with EU integration.

For those women who aim for the top levels of government, extra efforts are often required to combat traditional stereotypes and discrimination. "I have always had to be at least twice as good as my male colleagues," said Sladjana Prica, the Serbian Ambassador to the Council of Europe in Strasbourg.

Ambassador Hans Ola Urstad is the Head of the OSCE Mission: "Equal participation by women in decision-making is part of their fundamental right to contribute to political, social and economic life, and is the core of gender equality."

Raising awareness

But a significant increase of women in decision-making bodies will not happen overnight. It can only take place when citizens and governments recognize and support the need for greater participation by women. This process is beginning to take place in Serbia, thanks in part to the virtual women's government.

By informing citizens of the many women capable of taking on greater responsibility in government, the media campaign called on citizens to elect women ministers based on their qualifications and experience.

"This exercise aimed not to create an alternative to the current Government," said virtual Prime Minister Ruzica Djindjic, "but rather to once again strongly express the need to acknowledge the abilities of women in Serbia. We are ultimately striving for full equality."

Bringing in new ideas

In September, virtual ministers will present their programmes to the public to introduce new arguments into political discussions.

According to Jelica Minic of the European Movement in Serbia, the campaign has achieved several aims so far. It has shown that many women are interested and actively involved in politics. And with over 30,000 votes, it points to the possibility of new parliamentary elections.

The campaign also highlighted the importance of education in Serbia. "Educated women support youth education," said Minic. "Educated citizens, in turn, have high aspirations and the knowledge to reach them. Through advocating for their rights, they can influence the country's democratic development."

The project's organizers expect that the virtual government will act as a shadow "government of experts", providing alternative opinions to those of the national Government. The European Movement is interested in financing its activities. In addition, Serbian towns such as Novi Sad, Novi Pazar and Nis - supported by local newspapers and non-governmental organizations - are interested in similar local initiatives.

As for making it into the actual Government, Ambassador Urstad believes political parties hold the key because they choose the list of candidates. "I would advise women in Serbia to try to get on the inside of the political party nomination process," he added.

Aiming for real results

In Serbia, the lack of women among ministers and in politics in general might help to explain why it has been difficult to significantly change the country's image abroad.

"The project was an opportunity for citizens to get to know many outstanding women who can change Serbia for the better with their expertise, power and determination," said Deputy Prime Minister Ivana Dulic Markovic.

To support them, the OSCE Mission will continue to promote gender equality, particularly in politics. Ambassador Urstad hopes that by establishing the virtual women's government, it will now be difficult in Serbia to argue that there are not enough competent women, or even worse, that women have no interest in politics.

"We want real results, not only virtual ones," he said.

Written by Zorica Mrsevic and Ivana Jovanovic

13 September 2006

Jelica Minic from the European Movement in Serbia speaks at the end of the media campaign "Vote for Virtual Women's Government", Belgrade, 1 September 2006. Head of Mission Ambassador Hans Ola Urstad stands in the background. (OSCE/Milan Obradovic)

Jelica Minic from the European Movement in Serbia speaks at the end of the media campaign "Vote for Virtual Women's Government", Belgrade, 1 September 2006. Head of Mission Ambassador Hans Ola Urstad stands in the background. (OSCE/Milan Obradovic)

Documents

Talking points of the Head of the Mission to Serbia at the Women's Government Reception

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38 posted on 09/30/2006 3:46:10 PM PDT by Smartass (The stars rule men but God rules the stars)
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To: John Williams
So, in other words, you would instead side with Muslim fanatics and Albanian mobsters.

There are, believe it or not, a great many non-fanatic, non-mobster residents of Kosovo who's interests we're looking out for. An inability or lack of desire to discern between them and the actual fanatics and criminals is what landed the Serbs on our bad side in all of their recent wars.

You might want to make a note of that and avoid the same mistake yourself.

39 posted on 09/30/2006 4:20:03 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

[" Still, if you choose to side with the Serb nationalist dead-enders..."]

Well Hoplite, if they're "dead-enders" (as you put it), then why waste your time?...Which is truly what the poster (John) was asking...and what I asked you the other night.

Answer: You're a disgruntled individual who has a lot of time on your hands that enjoys smashing others down with verbal assaults because you somehow feel that raises you up.


40 posted on 09/30/2006 8:08:35 PM PDT by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: Hoplite; dirtboy; Bokababe; joan; montyspython; DTA; getoffmylawn; ma bell; Beckwith; ...

"An inability or lack of desire to discern between them and the actual fanatics and criminals is what landed the Serbs on our bad side in all of their recent wars."

I see, so this is justification to support mobsters who murder opposition with the LDK party. This is your justification. Or, is this the line of crap they are feeding you and you believe it. You are correct that there are a great many non-fanatic, non-mobster residents.....looking out for their interests you are not. Allowing members of the PDK, AAK, TMK etc...murder innocent serbs and LDK members who speak out, is the reality. Ceku is not an actual fanatic????? and Criminal??? an Inabilty or lack of desire to discern between them........The Serbs landed on our bad side because we want them out of Bosnia, Montenegro, Croatia, Kosovo, in the future we will foster another conflict in Macedonia......supporting the NLA and ALI Ahm. and reforming the UCPMB maybe with another silly name, to stir up trouble in southern Serbia, and OH, don't forget that little operation planned in North Mitrovica to blame on the Serbs....so that KFOR can once again declare martial law in Northern Mitrovica, to make sure there is no partitioning as promised to PDK, AAK, Ceku, Haliti, etc....three fronts.....While within Kosovo the Albanian Mini-groups....[curious, Black Eagles still screwing with Serbs like they did in 1999-2003 and beyond?] are terrorizing the Serbs in Klina and others returneed locations........tisk tisk who are you fooling...?

Not going to allow you to get away with the BS....God forbid you actually believe them.

Working on the answers....I have another life unlike you. And giving you a history lesson is not one of my priorities, but, I am very much looking forward to giving you this one.....not for you but for my own edification and interest.


41 posted on 10/01/2006 5:06:14 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill

Clinton is a full-fledged sociopath with all the bells and whistles. But he's their (Libs) sociopath, which makes it okay.


42 posted on 10/01/2006 5:16:27 AM PDT by hershey
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To: Hoplite

Many of those dead were counted for by a hand, foot, pieces, some Serbs and some missing are mobsters and diaspora in the USA, London, and other European countries......don't even try. This is another screwed reason they call any number over three as a "mass grave"....to give the illusion that there were X number of mass graves, when they are actually just shallow graves with 3-4 bodies. Granted the Serb Police chiefs that murdered the POW's, or arrested KLA, UCPMB should be arrested; the Serbia of today is different than in Milo's time. Also, keep in mind who arrested Milo in the first place while Kostonica was away.....and who has an interest in planting...opppps, I mean finding surfacing trucks at the right time......hmmmmmmmm?


43 posted on 10/01/2006 5:17:21 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: hershey

Clinton is not the long term "investor" in this scenario. He was groomed for the job as a donkey candidate....(fitting name for the group)....since he was gov-in-nor...:)) and diddling all those AK ladies within his grasp......Like a little boy in a candy store.....until his time came to become president. Check out his opposition.....:)) He is their groomed Sociopath who ran away from his draft hiding behind his sneaky screwed up character......yes, I guess that makes it okay? /sarc....you are right on target.......


44 posted on 10/01/2006 5:21:35 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill

The clinton administration and today's democrats see themselves as the 'friends' of the muslims...and want to gift the balkans to the Ummah as a token of 'peace'. Why not? Who will stop it?


45 posted on 10/03/2006 3:50:34 PM PDT by Celebratelife008
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To: Celebratelife008

We're trying.......but, you are right.


46 posted on 10/04/2006 1:40:18 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: Hoplite

I tried to keep it short, as I know your attention span can be measured in milliseconds......:)) I'll also spare you what the history books say and tell you the real story.

There is no doubt or disagreement that Hitler played a major role in causing WWII. You can talk about his background, his book, the Nazi party, and so forth. However, for all this to happen takes money and material support. Hitler was not a millionaire back then, and Germany was having some trouble economically. So, how did he get the Nazi party off and running. Well, I found out by a little “dab” of research that a chemical cartel named I.G. Farben. In a particular book about this cartel the following was quoted, “without I.G. Farben’s immense production facilities, it’s far reaching research, varied technical experience and overall concentration of economic power, Germany would not have been in a position to start its aggressive war in September, 1939”. Well, let’s follow the money trail. How did Farbin become so wealthy? Yes, their money and wealth came from Wall Street, USA. Quote from a source, “Without the capital supplied from Wall Street, there would not have been I.G. Farbin, no Adolf Hitler and no WWII” or words to that effect. I.G. Farbin came to being in 1924 with business with different cartels, 800 million consolidated funds, basically a J.P. Morgan production….J.P. Morgan? Sound familiar? It should, check them out.

Now, what other benefits did I.G. Farbin have to give the Nazi Party? Yes, Zyklon B, the gas used by Auschwitz, Bitterfeld, Agfa, lduwigshafen, Buchenwald, Hoechst and a few others…. These boys also produced Chlorine gas used during WWI. Here is a bit of trivia…..remember Henry Ford. I found out that he merged his German assets with those of Farbin. The year was around 1928. Something else came around also…..hydrogenation, gasoline from coal. Oh, here comes a household name. In the fall of 1927, “Standard Oil”……did research for the development of this process for Germany to prepare for WWII. I’m leaving a lot out, but you got the gist so far.

Now, did you know that the truth; aside from the 1932 pre-election propaganda; was that Herbert Hoover did not support the business world. Surprise!! He also saw significant problems with the government controlling the business world. This becomes a key issue for the next generations to follow…..Oh, I know what you are thinking. FDR was portraying that he was for the little guy; well, remember, it’s election time. In reality, FDR was a creation of Wall Street. The big guys in “Wall Street” wanted FDR, but he was portrayed as being for the little guy, Hoover was for the little guy but the media ran him for the pro-big business. Deep pockets there, wouldn’t you say? Roosevelt defeated the incumbent Hoover. FDR now could start his move, called the “NEW DEAL” which was heading toward a Fascist State. A man named Whitaker Chambers; who had defected from the American Communist Party, made a comment about the New Deal. “A genuine revolution, whose deepest purpose was not simply reform within existing traditions but a basic change in the social, and above all, the power relationship within the nation”.

Now we are just getting warmed up. I do bet you know of this incredible scheme that was actually cooked up in from July 1932 to November 1933. This true to life plan involved a very colorful character named Major General Smedley Butler of the USMC. He was approached by certain wealthy capitalist from the United States to lead a revolution to overthrow the government and establish an American Fascist dictatorship. He was even tempted by this offer. Three gentlemen, representing a body of planners, proposed to General Butler a plan to seize the White House with a private Army of 500,000 very disgruntled veterans, hold FDR prisoner, get rid of him if he refused to serve as their puppet in a dictatorship they were going to control. Do a search on Butler and discover what he said about war and what he knew already. He asserted that the military really served the role as a collection agency for big bankers. This was actually confirmed in 1934 by the Senate munitions Investigating committee. Smedley Butler has won two Congressional Medals of Honor, and had been involved in many campaigns. This committee confirmed that, remember this word; “Standard Oil”, along with United Fruit, the sugar trust, the big banks, had been behind most of the operations he had lead. Do another search to find the McCormack-Dickstein Committee that investigated Butler’s charges. They confirmed his allegations. Also, if you are interested, I have a link to Jules Archer, author of, “The Plot to Seize the White House”. I even have my own personal copy. You can’t find anymore of them, or its’ very hard. I got lucky.

There are other folks that believe that Butler was maybe being set up, and that this incident was actually going to be the means that these big businessmen and FDR was going to use. Butler would lead this private Army to DC, this action would have resulted in FDR declaring a national emergency and imposing martial law and being supported by the American people. Well, that is another story, either way it was planned and would have succeeded, however, Butler, being a Marine in true form, revealed the plot and FDR had to be happy just being a President.

You ask, what does this have to do with the start of WWII. Well, it has everything to do with the start of WWII. The investigation went lame and just disappeared from sight. Among the powers that be, it was decided that the main way to recover and still achieve this goal was to involve the U.S. in a war. Note that in 1927 was the start of Standard Oil supporting Germany by refining the oil necessary to begin WWII.

For the sake of brevity, as this could become a book, FDR was the Assistant Secretary of the Navy in 1915 timeframe. During this time President Wilson had started provoking and demonizing the Japanese, true or not. It’s a fact that the American government at that time knew that we were vulnerable at Pearl Harbor and would be the location to provoke the Japanese. In 1932, the U.S. Navy conducted operations to test the chance that this could happen. It was easy from as close as 60 miles off the shore. You might be interested to note that in the early 1930’s the U.S. Ambassador actually wrote Roosevelt that one hundred American corporations or more had subsidiaries in Germany, DuPonts (remember that name), working in the armament business, I.G. Farben, and Standard Oil. Also, remember these buckeroos…..General Motors company. Interesting history there and Henry Ford. I.T.T. also purchased a large interest in the Focke-Wolfe, maker of airplanes which produced the same planes that were used to fight Americans. Oh, by the way, three members of I.G. Farben, Board of Governors, were tried and convicted as German War Criminals. There were many businesses involved with Germany during this time………It is known that these businesses knew the true nature of Nazism, but for their own purposes aided Hitler, anticipating a war in Europe with the U.S. involved. Quote from a reference: “Material support continued even after the war started, in 1938. Ethy Gasoline Corp., owned partially by General Motors and Standard Oil, asked to build tetra-ethyl plants in Germany, with full support of the U.S. Dept of War. You know of course after the Triparite Agreement was signed by the three axis powers, when Japan Attacked Pearl Harbor this justified us entering the war in Europe.

So, before I lose you, Hoplite; Let’s recap. What was the major source of Hitler’s financial power? I.G. Farben. They had a little known source of its major power Wall Street, USA. I’m going to give you quotes and references that I didn’t say but others did……..

Quote: “Without the capital supplied by Wall Street, there would have been no I.G. Farben in the first place, and almost certainly no Adolf Hitler and WWII. (Historian Anthony Sutton; “Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler”, 76 Press, Seal Beach, Ca. 1976; page 33)

Hoplite we are dealing with unpatriotic capitalist that are powerful people. General Butler turned their cowardly butts in to the government and they still survived. They purposely start wars for financial gain.

Quote: “The members of the council (on Foreign Relations) are persons of much more than average influence in their community. They have used the prestige that their wealth, their social position, and their education have given them to lead their country toward bankruptcy and military debacle. They should look at their hands. There is blood on them-the dried blood of the last war (World War II). (Chicago Tribune editorial, December 9, 1950; Quigley, Carroll “Tragedy and Hope” A History of the World in our Time, The Macmillan Company, New York, 1966, Page 950).

Well, remember, back then…….The American people did not want war. FDR said during the campaign of 1940:

Quote: “I have said this before, and I shall say it again and again and again. Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars”. FDR

However, in 1933, (remember that year in the early part of this post?), FDR wanted to devise a way to get us into another war.

Quote: “Mr Farley wrote that at the second cabinet meeting in 1933, “The new president again turned to the possibility of war with Japan”. Cabinet member James Farley; (Farley, James, “The Roosevelt Years”, NY, McGraw-Hill Books, 1948. Page 39).

I actually have many more pages of quotes and commentary, 10 more quotes actually backing up what I’m talking about here. I will end up with this one…..

It seems that an Admiral Robery Theobold, who was at that time Commander of all destroyers at Pearl Harbor, said after his conclusions:

Quote: “President Roosevelt forced Japan to war and enticed them to initiate hostilities by holding the Pacific Fleet in Hawaiian waters as an invitation to that attack; the plans to use Pearl Harbor as the bait started in June 1940; and Roosevelt, Marshall (Army Chief of Staff) and Stark (Admiral, Chief of Naval Operations), knew about Pearl Harbor 21 hours before the attack.” Theobold, Robert, “The Final Secret of Pearl Harbor”, Devin-Adair Co. Old Greenwich, CT, 1954, pp 184-185, 197)

It also seems that Joseph Grew, was one of the first to discover that Pearl Harbor was the intended target when he corresponded with the Dept of State: January 27, 1940:

Quote: “The Peruvian minister has informed a member of my staff that the had heard from many sources, including a Japanese source, that, in the event of trouble breaking out between the United States and Japan, the Japanese intended to make a surprise attack against Pearl Harbor”…..(Same reference as above. Theobold, Robert)…..

You know the rest of the story….as a matter of fact, I did quite a bit of research and have for a long time. It suffices to say, this theme has been consistent since even the Bolshevik Revolution…for starters. The same players, just their offspring leads the way, by and by……even up to today.


47 posted on 10/05/2006 8:08:15 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: dirtboy; Bokababe; joan; montyspython; DTA; getoffmylawn; ma bell; Beckwith; ...

ping


48 posted on 10/05/2006 8:13:36 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill
You seem oblivious to the actual background behind Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor, inasmuch as you ignore their invasion of China (provoked by us, no doubt...) and our diplomatic and economic response.

The American choice in regards to Japan in the 1930's and up to Pearl Harbor was either appeasement or confrontation.

Unlike our European friends' response to the Nazis, we confronted Japan, and they chose to go to war against us in order to continue their war in China.

What I'm looking for from you is an answer as to how Pearl Harbor could have been a setup, or what you'd base a belief that we knew an attack upon Pearl Harbor specifically, rather than our Philippine bases, was coming, and that we made sure it happened by obstructing the efforts of Pearl Harbor's commanders to protect themselves against a Japanese attack.

So how's about you eschew the disjointed Art Bell approach to history and concentrate your efforts specifically upon Pearl Harbor, as requested.

Thanks.

49 posted on 10/05/2006 7:14:31 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

I did, you just don't listen.....So, for the edification of other readers and more research experience for me, I will focus solely on Japan. However, this is not a two paragraph answer and you got the big picture. It's apparent that you need information spoon fed since you have very little capability of finding out info for yourself. Or, is it that you are so narrow minded and shilling you want others to give you info so that you can make a feeble attempt to shoot holes in it as you are too lazy to actually seek out the truth. You certainly don't understand the big picture on how the true history has taken shape. You see, it makes no difference what is written you will make a desperate attempt to downplay it, and if you can't you will throw out humorous insults that actually brings a smile to ones face in knowing, almost in an arrogrant way that they have you in the palm of their hands...... :)) now, I know why they call you the "Under-Secretary"..... sort of like, "Underdog"....:))))

Okay, for fun I'll seek that answer and who knows, I might actually have another epiphany....whoa, Nelly.


50 posted on 10/06/2006 12:05:34 AM PDT by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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