Posted on 10/04/2006 4:57:03 AM PDT by Perdogg
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a political conspiracy unravel as fast as this one that involves former representative Mark Foley.
Let’s recap.
1. On September 29th Foley is approached by ABC NEWS about salitious Instant Messages with a former page and abruptly resigns. Four days later he turns himself into rehab.
2. Through investigation by several bloggers, including yours truly, it is discovered that during the last few years, liberal watchdog group CREW may have had specific knowlede of the IM’s existance, and of Foley’s activities, and might have possibly been in possession corospondence between Rep. Foley and former page(s). Additionally a known “Republican Gay Outer”, Mike Rogers of Blog Active was found to have materially participated in the IM messaging of Foley and admitted to have been on a “campaign” to out Foley since at least as far back as March 2005, and specifically attempted to threaten Foley in January 2006, thus may be guilty of using threat or intimidation to influence a US Congressman’s vote on US legislation.
Yesterday Gateway Pundit uncovered that Mike Rogers had an a “partner” (although not known to be an accomplice at this point) in John Aravios of America’s Blog in a campaign against Foley as well. Gateway Pundit notes that there is no evidence that Aravios actually had specific evidence, but then holding evidence, and having knowledge of someone holding it are still crimes.
World Net Daily picked up on the story here, and puts together nicely what appears at this point to have been an orchestrated effort on the part of several leftwing activists to “pull the trigger” on this story just prior to midterm elections.
Additionally, while Mr. Foley appears by his resigning to have admitted to participating in IMing and emailing former pages, it’s not clear if all the recorded IM’s are authentic. The FBI, which is looking into the matter, as I mentioned here, will use specific forensic analysist to determine if in fact the corospondence discovered so far is in fact valid. Already it has been discovered that several IM’s may have in fact been tampered with.
At this point it’s not know the full involvement of those - or of others yet to be discovered - is. However, I do know that the specific focus of the FBI at this point is to determine who knew about Foley’s activities, when they knew it and specifically who withheld evidence in what may be a Federal Crime. Yet like in many investigations, there is sometimes the uncovering of other crimes that takes place. It should be said at this point that the attempt to attempt to extort or influence, or threaten a US congressman, in order to infuence legislation, or an election is a Federal Crime, and if in fact principals were involved in such an orchestrated plan it will be discovered.
Again, I must point out that even as a constituant of former respresentitive Foley, I detest his actions, and do not condone and accept them in anyway. In fact I support his prosecution if applicable laws have been broken. But again, those who particpated before the fact in the “outing” of Foley, seem to have had at this point specific knowledge of his activities and if proven at the least are guilty of conspriracy to withhold evidence, and obstruction of justice.
We shall see as the day(s) progress.
ping
As far as I've heard... Foley did not have any physical contact. He is disgusting, no doubt, but didn't DO anything. Where's the crime?
The Republicans need to go on the offensive NOW....
Introduce an emergency PROTECT THE PAGES AND INTERNS ACT. Any Congressman who is sexually bothering (physically or through correspondence) ANY page or intern, regardless of age, will temporarily resign pending investigation.
If the investigation determines there was sexual misconduct, that Congressman will be out the door, without any of the wonderful Congressional perks.
Any personal correspondence of a personal nature between a Congressman and ANY page or intern will be done through the Congressional page office (i.e., copied) and/or their parents will be copied .
See how many DEMOCRATs will vote for passage.
The pages and interns aren't there to be hit on by our sleezy politicians. Many companies have policies like this, I don't see why we can't expect the same from our Congress.
ping
And the demonrats wonder why no one trusts them anymore.
Did you see this?
http://buffalogeek.wnymedia.net/archives/822
If the IM's have been "tampered with" then that information needs to come out LOUD AND CLEAR to the American Public. That needs to become the "story".
Other than that, yep, there are some issues here. The Dims and their running dogs are really good at "impresisonistic" propaganda. They put out a huge, street-sweeper kind of accusation, and by the time the truth of the matter comes out, the "meme" has done its work and moved on.
For example, the Plame mess will confirm many in their thinking that Republicans are vengeful, mean-spirited, and sneaky for election cycles yet to come, EVEN though we now know that probably the sneakiest person involved was the Independent Prosecutor. If he were to be disbarred tomorrow for misconduct in this matter, the charge has already done its work.
Here where the distinction will be between criminal acts and merely morally and otherwise repellent behavior, there is no effective defense.
Dims don't care for truth, for children, or for anything other than power. Like the rulers in 1984 they talk about the good of the people but what they want is control for its own sake.
Yep. ain't sex without intercourse. I would post more, but I want to ask for the latest "measurements" from my neighbor's son.
As far as I've heard... Foley did not have any physical contact. He is disgusting, no doubt, but didn't DO anything. Where's the crime?
The Republicans need to go on the offensive NOW....
Geez Louise, talk about shooting yourself in the foot! Republicans should repudiate this piece of crap, not defend him.
By holding them, did they cause the statute of limitations for any potential crime to pass when the ims were sent? Often times the SOL for federal crimes is 5 years.
If so, this might explain why they were held back.
Tom Lifson has an article out this morning that got me thinking -
http://www.americanthinker.com/comments.php?comments_id=6269
Is this the ket? -
According to Lifson, Aravosis (one of the known liberals outing gay congress people) said he obtained the latest information about the five-term congressman from Foley’s former chief of staff, Kirk Fordham.
QUESTION - Did Fordham have acccess to Foley's IM account information, screen name and password? Very likely. Could he have passed this information onto Aravosis and Rogers? Very possible. Could some of the IMs been manufactured then by Rogers or Aravosis, those being reported by ABC? Probable.
We know someone logged onto Foley's IM account yesterday when he was in a treatment center for 20-30 seconds, according to Fox News. Could this have been Rogers or Aravosis? I am sure the feds will know shortly if they already do not.
Ping! More info here.
So this is the GOP strategy? Question the timing? Because---shock and amazement--political opponents may have held the info for max impact? First, what a shocker. Second, who cares? What's worse? What Foley did is worse.
If I am right about my post #12, then the democrats are just as bad as Foley and will pay dearly at the polls.
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/10/foleygate-altered-images-whats-going.html
Check this out for me.
This may be a small point, (but who knows in this nutty spin cycle) however I thought I heard Foley's lawyer say yesterday at the press conference that Foley checked into a rehab center on Sunday. If anyone sees a transcript of Foley's attorney's press from yesterday, please ping me to it.
Macsmind has been the go to point for this story.
Great investigating. I have gone to the site numerous times during the day for updates.
If what? If Foley's not really a disgusting pervert? Well if he's not really a pervert, how come we're not hearing him decry the phony IMs? How come instead we're hearing him say he's an alcoholic who was diddled by a priest? I can't stand when things like this happen, because it makes both FR and Rush pretty much unbearable. People just can't deal with reality. I don't even get why it's a big story. Perv congressman? Ho hum.
That is my understanding, that is why someone logging onto his IM account yesterday is odd. See post #12.
I have yet to hear anyone other than personal acquaintances of Foley's defend him. The Repubs do need to go on the offensive regarding how this information was used. If someone knew about the IM's and sat on them, with the intention of releasing them right before the election, then there is a definite issue. Not only could they have enabled that POS Foley to take his advances to the point where a crime was committed (by all accounts, at this time none was), they may have also tried to influence a Federal election through illegal means.
Foley is a turd, and has been repudiated by the Repubs, the story now should be about the dirty, and possibly illegal way the left handled the situation.
So you are willing to turn over the country to the Al Qaida party over this???? I am not!!!
Firstoff - take a chill pill. Secondly, Foley obviously is a sick man and a pervert. He should have resigned and if he committed a crime, should be prosecuted. However, it appears more everyday that there is more to this story and the donks are entangled. You just cant't parse over that, unless you are a donk and want to. If the donks are involved, they should be held accountable too.
Are you kidding me? I can't believe anyone is still talking about this dumb story. My congressman, who is up for reelectoin, is not named Foley and is not a perv. In fact, he's a good man who can count on my vote. How I vote has absolutely nothing at all to do with the pufftah perv congressman from FLA.
Dems may have sprung this surprise too early. There may be time yet for the pajama patrol to uncover whose behind it all and what's fact and what's fiction before the election. Somewhere in the wings there is a Bill Burkett wannabe with ties to the Dem party.
To be clear: Foley resigns Friday, Sept 29, checked into Rehab on Sunday Oct 2, someone used his AOL account on Tuesday Oct 4.
lol. Whatever dude. I'm so chilled I should be a Heineken. It's just sad and pathetic to see ppl grasping at the lamest defenses of this creep Foley. He's basically admitted it, hasn't he? So what else is there to talk about? That the DEMs released the info in a politically advantageous way? Well shazzam! What a surprise. Get over it. Move on.
Personally, if I were Foley, I would retaliate against those who outted me for partisan reasons by outting all of the other gay and lesbian members of Congress.
Even the playing field a little.
As long as part of what's fact is Foley being a gay perv, then it's really academic at this point.
but Robert Novak said there is no conspiracy!
The beltway media is soooo smart they would know about CREW!
The beltway media would have told us Foley was a homosexual!
The beltway media would never have protect a homosexual who pusues boys!
ok sarcasm off.
The MSM knew loooooong before the congressional leaders HOWEVER even Fox News is being intentionally ignorant.
plain old MSM lack of ethics as usual.
and yes Novak was on Fox News' fox and friends to push the "no conspiracy" BS.
I was going to post the same thing, but I read the rest of musikman's post first. He's NOT talking about defending Foley at all. He's talking about putting together some legislation that would force congresscritters to temporarily step down if allegations are made.
I don't agree with musikman on this legislation, but he was not suggesting defending the indefensible.
Doesn't necessarily matter that there wasn't physical contact. Attempting to meet with a minor is enough in most cases to get arrested.
Ever watched the To Catch a Predator series on Dateline?
Admitted what, exactly?
This is the whole problem, IMHO. "He's admitted it," leaves us with lurid and perverted imaginings. But there is an important difference between writing disgusting and perverted Instant Messages and engaging in disgusting and perverted sex. There's even an important difference between disgusting and perverted emails and disgusting and perverted Instant Messages - and a greater one between mildly disquieting emails and disgusting and perverted IMs.
But we just say,"He's basically admitted it," (where "basically" means he may NOT have admitted anything but his actions lead one to conclude that he's not going to dispute anything) and pay no attention to collateral damage and innocent bystanders -- or between culpable negligence, such as Hastert is being accused of, and possibly careless inaction?
Oh my, it's SUCH fun to throw out vague charges, but to base one's opinions and actions on them is irresponsible, I think.
Seriously and not argumentatively: Is it enough to get convicted with a conviction that will survice the appeals process?
The crime, if there is one, is a violation of a Federal statute (bizarrely sponsored in the House by Foley himself) that makes use of the internet to solicit sex from a minor, defined to be a person under age 18, rather than a person under age of consent in the jursidiction where the sender and/or recipient are located or reside.
Of course the lewd IMs were sent to a *former* page, who may well have turned 18 in the time between serving as a page and the sending of the IMs in which case there is no crime.
From what I've seen even a prosecution on that charge isn't an open and shut case, as the 'solicitation' was elliptic: phrases like "and then" with replies like "we'll see what happens."
I agree the Republicans need to go on the offensive, and the measures you suggest are a good start. But I'd also like to see a rhetorical offensive, contrasting Democrats' stand on the intercept of IMs between two persons in the US by a leftist advocacy group with their stand on intercept of communications between persons in the US and suspected terrorists abroad.
Something like "Isn't it ironic that the same people who think the President of the United States lacks the authority as Commander-in-Chief to protect the American people by monitoring communications between terrorists overseas and persons in the US seem to think the Speaker of the House has the authority to monitor instant messages sent by members of the House?"
While this page is assumed to have been the party to these instant messages, why hasn't he come forth to further damn Foley? All that is presented is some instant messages supposedly sent as far back as 2003 involving some unknown party and Foley. The convenient timing of the release of this information and lack of detail would seem to indicate that these instant messages could be all or in part fakes as part of a October surprise by the Democrats.
You have blinders on. This has gone beyond Foley. He's yesterday's news. It's now about an attempt to force Hastert to step down and use this for political gain. If someone is complicit in withholding evidence of a potential crime so the information could be used as an "October surprise" then it needs to be pursued with all speed. Wake up and smell the coffee.
> Somewhere in the wings there is a Bill Burkett wannabe with ties to the Dem party. <
In other words, the IM's actually came from Lucy Ramirez?
I've always wondered about the guys that Dateline busts. I really wish they would do a follow up to show us where they are now. If they were convicted, etc.
But Perverted Justice claims its efforts have led to arrests and convictions and in those cases there was no contact between the predator and a minor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverted-Justice.com
Well, I think instead I'll just withdraw my attention, or try to anyway, until after election day. It's pointless. Hastert doesn't have to resign. He's said he's not going to. What else is there to talk about? The perv is gone. Next question.
" It's now about an attempt to force Hastert to step down and use this for political gain."
Wasn,t it the Washington Times that started that ball rolling? What's up with that?
I think we were talking about IMs. Someone was saying maybe the IMs were bogus. I'm saying Foley doesn't seem to think so, based on his actions. See how simple that is?
Except that every extra day spent talking about it, whether your defending yourself or not, is a day the DEMs have won. I don't know. The GOP is definitely panicky right now. That's plain to see. And it seems to go to the roots.
Really, what was Hastert supposed to do? He is not Foley's boss. He couldn't expel Foley by fiat and it would have been called a Homophobic Witch Hunt. Remeber at the time that Hastert was made aware of the e-mails they were rumors. Try expelling a congressman based on rumors. Maybe the Big Tent wasn't such a good idea after all.
The day after the WT published it's editorial saying Hastert should step down the Times Director of Human Resources was arrested for soliciting sex with a 13 year old girl on the internet. The timing makes you go Hmmmm.
There have been times where I've been persuaded to see an issue or story in a new light. Maybe a perspective or a detail I was lacking. So it's always worth testing out my own pov by posting it here. Usually if I'm missing something important, it'll be brought to my attention pretty quickly here. Of course, that hasn't happened in this instance. I think the GOP top to bottom is just completely falling into this one.
From what I've read thus far, what is starting to come to light is this: militant homosexual activists have been targeting Republicans with suspected or known homosexual tendencies for several years, basically blackmailing them, in an attempt at swaying the vote on, for one, the marriage amendment. I'm pretty certain that that Tyson Vivyan guy, a former Congressional page, who appeared on O'Reilly to discuss his charge that Foley IMed him back in 97, is gay; transcripts from his appearance reveal a rather stilted and peculiar recollection, designed to do as much damage as possible. There are posts from that Rogers guy that imply he has posed as a page during an IM session with Foley, and who knows who else. If there actually are others who are compromised on this or other potential legislation, I for one think this is a major problem, and want to get to the truth of the matter. They've been issuing threats about outing a Republican Senator (like we don't already know who THAT might be), so it's far from over.
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