Dow Jones Industrial Average just cracked 11,800 for first time ever

Market Watch ^ | 10-0406

[MNJohnnie]

Dow 11,801.14 73.80
Nasdaq 2,272.05 28.40
S&P 500 1,343.18 9.07

[MNJohnnie]

Chart for the last half hour is almost a vertical line. Hang on people this is going to be a wild ride.

[NinoFan]

Yay! Hope it closes that way. :)

[Blue Turtle]

Bush's fault.

[Tenacious 1]

Jump off the bridge now. Watch the 100+ point tumble for the rest of the day.

[Darkwolf377]

Come election day, people will be thinking about this, not about Foley.

[BenLurkin]

Well, for years I have heard that x42 was supposedly a 'great' president because of how well the stock market did in the 90s (as if he had anything to do with it!)

And, by the way dinosaur media, what ever became of "It's the economy stupid"?

[Protagoras]

Do you have a regular job? You call this a wild ride?

[MNJohnnie]

I suggest you jump off the brige. What the matter, sell out your stocks listening to all the Democrat Party Activists pretending to be Business Analysis in the Junk Media trying to spin this as bad news?

[Protagoras]

Yay! Hope it closes that way. :)

Why?

[MNJohnnie]

Are you naturally so obnoxious or do you go home each night and practise at it?

[JRios1968]

IBTRYMBP!!

[MNJohnnie]

Because unlike obnoxious Know Nothing lurkers, Most Freepers own stock, pension plans and 401K's.

[Dick Bachert]

Yes, and thanks to the statist "miracle" of FIAT MONEY (aka "INFLATION" or "DESTRUCTION OF THE VALUE OF THE CURRENCY") that DOW SHOULD be running up around 600,000!
In terms of 1913 or so values, the "dollar" of today is worth about TWO CENTS!!

If you think you can handle the "why" of that, read on. Otherwise, go back to watching "Entertainment Tonight."
(AND, YES, IT'S IMPORTANT ENOUGH A SUBJECT FOR ME TO KEEP POSTING IT DESPITE THE PERIODIC FLAMES THAT NOBODY CARES! I KNOW THAT NOBODY CARES. THAT'S THE BIG "WHY" OF HOW IT HAS COME TO PASS!

---

(I wrote this a number of years ago when things were NOT going well with the economy. Trust me: They WILL get ugly once again as man -- or certain men -- cannot resist playing God. We continue to violate the universal, immutable laws of economics at our great peril.)

Despite the apparent economic strength of the American economy, history proves that EVERY house of cards eventually comes down. And the higher the card house, the harder the fall when it finally comes. And when it does, the more freedoms we will voluntarily surrender to "restore order." It was the Founders' concern about this historically valid problem which prompted their attempt -- now ignored -- to keep American "money" sound and honest.) Dick Bachert 1998

* * * * * * * *


The Forgotten History of Money
This is the fascinating story of the efforts by certain of the Founding Fathers to prevent the economic distress we find all about us today. It is also a sad story on the basis that modern, "sophisticated" Americans have abandoned the corrective institutional mechanism that remains in place to this day. As you read it, think about a world with many fewer S&L, banking and political scandals and economic problems now considered the norm.

"Blood running in the streets. Mobs of rioters and demonstrators threatening banks and legislatures. Looting of shop and home. Strikes and unemployment. Trade and distribution paralyzed. Shortages of food. Bankruptcies everywhere. Court dockets overloaded. Kidnappings for heavy ransom. Sexual perversion, drunkenness, lawlessness rampant. The wheels of government are clogged, and we are descending into the vale of confusion and darkness. No day was ever more clouded than the present. We are fast verging on anarchy and confusion. (George Washington in a 1786 letter to James Madison, describing the effects of fiat paper money inflation then ravaging America in the pre Constitutional period.)

"The annihilation (of the paper money) was so complete that barber shops were papered in jest with the bills; and sailors, on returning from cruises, being paid off in bundles of this worthless money, had suits made of it, and with characteristic lightheartedness, turned their loss into frolic by parading through the streets in decayed finery which in its better days had passed for thousands of dollars." (Contemporary writer, Breck, 1786)

"Paper money polluted the equity of our laws, turned them into engines of oppression, corrupted the justice of our public administration, destroyed the fortunes of thousands who had confidence in it, enervated the trade and husbandry, and the manufactures of our country, and went far to destroy the morality of out people." (Peletiah Webster, 1786)

At the drafting of the U.S.Constitution, there were many "Friends of Paper Money" present. On August 16, 1787, when the discussion arose on Article 1, Section 8, the proposed wording was this: "The Legislature of the United States shall have the power to...coin money...and emit bills of credit of the United States."

A hot argument ensued on the power to emit bills of credit, which is another way of saying "printing paper money".

Here are the actual words James Madison wrote describing the debate in his diary: "Mr.G.Morris moved to strike out *and emit bills of credit.* If the United States had credit, such bills would be unnecessary; if they had not, unjust and useless.

MADISON: Will it not be sufficient to prohibit the making them a tender? This will remove the temptation to emit them with unjust views. And promissory notes in that shape may in some emergencies be best.
MORRIS: Striking out the words will leave room still for notes of a responsible minister which will do the good without the mischief. The monied interest will oppose the plan of the Government, if paper emissions be not prohibited.
COL.MASON: Though he had a mortal hatred to paper money, yet as he could not foresee all emergencies, we was unwilling to tie the hands of the Legislature [Legislature = Congress].
MR.MERCER:(A friend to paper money) It was impolitic...to excite the opposition of all those who were friends to paper money.
MR. ELSEWORTH thought this was a favorable moment to shut and bar the door against paper money. The mischiefs of the various experiments which had been made, were now fresh in the public mind and had excited the disgust of all the respectable part of America. By withholding the power from the new Government, more friends of influence would be gained to it than by almost anything else...Give the Government credit, and other will offer. The power may do harm, never good.
MR.WILSON: It will have a most salutary influence on the credit of the United States to remove the possibility of paper money. This expedient can never succeed whilst its mischiefs are remembered, and as long as it can be resorted to, it will be a bar to other resources.
MR.READ thought the words, if not struck out, would be as alarming as the mark of the Beast in Revelation.
MR.LANGDON had rather reject the whole plan than retain the three words *and emit bills*".

The motion for striking out carried.

Historian George Bancroft later wrote: "James Madison left his testimony that *the pretext for a paper currency, and particularly for making the bills a tender, either for public or private debts, was cut
off.* This is the interpretation of the clause, made at the time of its adoption by all the statesmen of that age, not open to dispute because too clear for argument, and never disputed so long as any one man who took part in framing the constitution remained alive."

ROGER SHERMAN(1721 1793)should be a name familiar to every American. As familiar as Washington, Madison, Jefferson and Adams. He is the only man to have signed all 4 documents surrounding the formation of the United States of America: The Continental Association of 1774, The Declaration of Independence, The Articles of Confederation and The United States Constitution. He was a Judge of the Superior Court in New Haven, Connecticut, serving that office with distinction from 1766 until 1788. He served as Treasurer of Yale University from 1765 to 1776. He was renouned for his high intelligence and unswerving honesty and was described by John Adams "as honest as an angel and as
firm in the cause of American independence as Mount Atlas." He served in the U.S.Senate from 1791 until his death in 1793.

Why is Roger Sherman*s name unfamiliar? HE WAS AN ENEMY OF PAPER MONEY!! In 1751, Roger Sherman and his brother William sued James Battle for paying a debt to their shop in New Milford, Connecticut, in depreciating paper currency. Over a period of 15 months, Battle had charged "divers wares and merchandizes" amounting to 129 pounds of what
Sherman assumed were pounds of Connecticut "Old Tenor", a stable currency whose value were well preserved by taxation taking it out of circulation. But Battle assumed the debt was denominated in pounds of ever depreciating Rhode Island currency, tendered in same, and the Shermans took a beating in the payment and sued for recovery of loss by depreciation. The Shermans lost when Battle argued that he was merely following the accepted custom of the day. In 1752, Sherman wrote his book "A Caveat Against Injustice or An Inquiry into the Evils of a Fluctuating Medium of Exchange" indicting UNBACKED PAPER MONEY.

It was this experience that Sherman brought to the Constitutional Convention and prompted him to rise on August 28,1787 and propose new, more restrictive wording to Article 1,Section 10. The standing version under consideration was worded this way: "No state shall coin money; nor grant letters of marque and reprisal; nor enter into any Treaty, alliance, or confederation; nor grant any title of Nobility." (From Madison’s Notes of the Convention) "Judge Sherman and Mr. Wilson moved to insert the words *coin money* the words *nor emit bills of credit, nor make any thing but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts* making these prohibitions absolute, instead of making the measures allowable with the consent of the Legislature of the U.S. Mr. Sherman thought this a FAVORABLE CRISIS FOR CRUSHING PAPER MONEY. If the consent of the Legislature could authorize emissions of it, the friends of paper money would make every exertion to get into the Legislature in order to license it." Mr. Sherman*s and Mr. Wilson*s motion was quickly agreed to and became the supreme law of the land.

Some additional quotations to ponder:

"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in the constitution or confederation, nor from a want of honor or virtue so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation" (John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, 1787)

"I deny the power of the general government to making paper money, or anything else, a legal tender." (Thomas Jefferson)

"You have been doubtless been informed, from time to time, of the happy progress of our affairs. The principal difficulties seem in great measure to have been surmounted. Our revenues have been considerably
more productive than it was imagined they would be. I mention this to show the spirit of enterprise that prevails." (George Washington in a letter to the Marquis de LaFayette, June 3, 1790 AFTER the United States Constitution prohibited unbacked paper money at Article 1, Section 10)

"Since the federal constitution has removed all danger of our having a paper tender, our trade is advanced fifty percent. Our monied people can trust their cash abroad, and have brought their coin into circulation." (December 16, 1789 edition of The Pennsylvania
Gazette)

"Our country, my dear sir, is fast progressing in its political importance and social happiness." (George Washington in a letter to the Marquis de LaFayette, March 19, 1791)

"The United States enjoys a sense of prosperity and tranquility under the new government that could hardly have been hoped for." (George Washington in a letter to Catherine Macaulay Graham, July 19,1791)

"Tranquility reigns among the people with that disposition towards the general government which is likely to preserve it. Our public credit stands on that high ground which three years ago would have been
considered as a species of madness to have foretold." (George Washington in a letter to David Humphreys, July 20, 1791)

"It is apparent from the whole context of the Constitution as well as the times which gave birth to it, that it was the purpose of the Convention to establish a currency consisting of the precious metals.
These were adopted by a permanent rule excluding the use of a perishable medium of exchange, such as certain agricultural commodities recognized by the statutes of some States as tender for debts, or the still more pernicious expedient of PAPER CURRENCY." (Andrew Jackson, 8th Annual Message to Congress, December 5, 1836)

DESPITE WHAT YOU WERE TAUGHT IN SCHOOL, THE HISTORICAL RECORD IS CRYSTAL CLEAR: AMERICA WAS TO HAVE BEEN SPARED THE DESTRUCTIVE EFFECTS OF AN UNBACKED PAPER MONEY SYSTEM. MOST OF THE PROBLEMS WE FACE TODAY CAN BE TRACED TO WHAT ANDREW JACKSON CALLED "THE PERNICIOUS EXPEDIENT OF PAPER MONEY".

HISTORY TEACHES THAT AN "ARTIFICIAL" MONEY CREATES AN "ARTIFICIAL" WORLD WHERE THE PRICE FOR SOME ITEM...EVEN OUR MOST POPULAR WELFARE "PROGRAM"...CAN BE DEFERRED TO FUTURE GENERATIONS (OUR $11 TRILLION
NATIONAL DEBT) OR PAID WITH A "MONEY" CREATED OUT OF THIN AIR WHICH ROBS THE VALUE FROM THE MONEY WE MIGHT BE UNFORTUNATE ENOUGH TO HAVE IN OUR POCKETS AT THAT MOMENT (INFLATION). AND ONE THING YOU MUST REMEMBER ABOUT INFLATION IS THAT IT IS NOT AN "EQUAL OPPORTUNITY" DESTROYER: THOSE FIRST IN LINE TO GET THEIR HANDS ON THE NEW MONEY ROLLING OFF THE PRESSES (THE MODERN FRIENDS OF PAPER MONEY) HAVE A CHANCE TO SPEND IT BEFORE IT LOSES ITS VALUE. THE LITTLE PEOPLE (THAT’S US, FOLKS!) FARTHEST DOWN THE LINE ARE THE ONES WHO FEEL THE FULLEST EFFECTS OF THIS DESTRUCTIVE PROCESS.
filename:$history

Dick Bachert

[weegee]

The final decade of the 20th century, and Bill Clinton's administration, ended with the end of the year 2000. And the bubble had already burst. The smoke and mirrors of the "Clinton economy" had fizzled.

Clinton inherited an economy that had rebounded from the S&L bailouts and was already rising. "Down is Up" was a lie.

Bush inherited a recession and then suffered the worst attack on US soil. The economy has recovered from that man made disaster. Can't hand this recovery to the Democrats.

[MNJohnnie]

Yet imagine this. All that FIAT money manages to produce the most powerful, richest, successful happy Republic in the History of man. Gee intresting how that all just works out some how.

[MikeA]

But...but...but...but...Mark Foley!

[Protagoras]

I just wonder why you think this political website is a yahoo financial chat-room where people who really don't have any meaningful commitment to the market and don't seem to grasp significant events as opposed to meaningless drivel come here and waste bandwidth.

[HHKrepublican_2]

Bush's fault.
Clinton would have done it faster.

[I see my hands]

"I just wonder why you think this political website is a yahoo financial chat-room where people who really don't have any meaningful commitment to the market and don't seem to grasp significant events as opposed to meaningless drivel come here and waste bandwidth."

I want to learn. Will you teach me to be like you?

[Protagoras]

Because unlike obnoxious Know Nothing lurkers, Most Freepers own stock, pension plans and 401K's.

I have been in the investment business for 38 years. I invest more money in a day than you have made in your life.

There is a "know nothing" here, but it ain't me.

[ContemptofCourt]

Because unlike obnoxious Know Nothing lurkers, Most Freepers own stock, pension plans and 401K's.

The DIJA is an index of 30 stocks...yes, 30 stocks, out of about 5000 (and of those 30, half have been crushed over the past 6 years). Last I checked, the NASDAQ, S&P 500, and a multitude of other, wider indexs were still well off their highs.

The DIJA is for public consumption purposes, and has very little to do with anyone's 401K, etc....unless you own the 30 DIJA stocks (in which case, congrats...you are exactly where you were 6 years ago).

[JewishRighter]

Clinton: I tried to get the Dow up to 11,800, I tried before anybody else did, I tried and tried and tried.

[MNJohnnie]

I am sorry but your posting are completely lacking anything resembling coherence or content. Please try again once you have sobered up.

[Tenacious 1]

[I suggest you jump off the brige. What the matter, sell out your stocks listening to all the Democrat Party Activists pretending to be Business Analysis in the Junk Media trying to spin this as bad news?]

I don't mean forever. This is a good thing. I just predict that the day traders will take profits today and the market will drop 100Pts from the high before closing. Then, jump back in tonight and watch it take off again. The market starts making big swings whenever it hits milestones like this. I don't listen to analyst. I watch the market.

Personally I don't day trade so my money will stay put.

[I see my hands]

"you are exactly where you were 6 years ago."

Where am I in relation to 5 years ago?

[MikeA]

Or if you invested within the last 5 years, you're up over where you started. And in general, other stocks tend to follow the movement of the Dow. What impacts those stocks will impact others not part of the Dow index.

[Protagoras]

Todays high mark for the meaningless DJIA is 11804.58.
When it trades one cent higher than that,,,,,,,

WOO HOO!!!! PARTEEEEEEEE!

[LS]

Damn Bush economy.

[steveegg]

I take it you're heavily-invested in gold; and you aren't satisfied with the nice run-up in that commodity, but want a guaranteed increase in your portfolio.

[Protagoras]

Where am I in relation to 5 years ago?

Sounds like in the same state of ignorance.

[Grampa Dave]

[MNJohnnie]

Oh how painful it must be for you to realize the Market is not dropping! Seems your knee jerk cynicism is wrong.....again. But do keep trying. You are bound to stumble into being correct some day.

Dow 11,800.82 73.48
Nasdaq 2,271.49 27.84
S&P 500 1,343.58 9.47

[SaxxonWoods]

No need to wade through Dick's stuff, seen it all before.

Things that matter most:

Life expectancy has increased from about 48 years to 78 years since 1913.

The percentage of households able to support themselves in a fashion generally accepted as wealthy has increased about sevenfold since 1913. The middle class is shrinking as more households enter the upper class.

One place to give Dick his due: The new DOW record means that the DOW is about even with where it was 6 years ago, and inflation has eaten 15% of your wealth since then.

Overall, from my seat, things are great, but that's the way Capitalism works, there are winners and losers, and your individual position can change in either direction over time, depending on your decisions and actions.

[steveegg]

Clinton: I tried to get the Dow up to 11,800, I tried before anybody else did, I tried and tried and tried.

steveegg to S(l)ick Willie - Only when you needed a distraction, and oh, you failed.

[Recovering_Democrat]

[lesser_satan]

Well f$%K it then! I'll sell off all my stocks and trade my cash for gold ingots, which I'll keep under my bed! When I need to buy something, I'll shave off a little piece with my pocket knife and ride the mule into town, where, providing I'm not robbed and murdered by marauding highwaymen along the way, I can spend my morning bartering with foul-smelling slack-jawed inbred yokels for a loaf of bread and some eggs, which I'll have to eat immediately upon my return home so they don't go bad!

[ContemptofCourt]

And in general, other stocks tend to follow the movement of the Dow. What impacts those stocks will impact others not part of the Dow index.

Really? So will the NASDAQ follow the DJIA in general, or the underperforming Intel, MS, IBM and HP?

[Protagoras]

And in general, other stocks tend to follow the movement of the Dow.

That is more than debatable. In the last few decades, it has been a follower at best.

[Jeffrey_D.]

The MSM commented yesterday.
All they would point out is how long it took to get it back to where it was when their hero was in office.

[steveegg]

It's not exactly a wild ride when it's less than a 1% move. Now if it were going up 700 points instead of 70, it would be a wild ride.

As for the NASDAQ, if memory serves, it had a lot of fly-by-night tech stocks as part of its index in 1999-2000 when it hit 5,000.

[steveegg]

That's the best RYMB pic yet.

[Protagoras]

Dow 11,800.82 73.48

OH NO!!! It's 3 points lower than before.!!!!

WHEEEEEEE!! What a wild ride!!! Hold on to your seats!

[steveegg]

I remember when a 3-point move was significant, and it wasn't all that long ago.

[LikeLight]

IBTRYMBP!!

Love it!

[Democracy In Iraq]

Sure, the Dow is setting records, but have you heard the REALLY big story about the Microwave bunnies?...

[MikeA]

Retract your claws. I wasn't referring to NASDAQ components or necessarily tech stocks, but non-indexed stocks. Sheesh.

[Protagoras]

I remember when a 3-point move was significant, and it wasn't all that long ago.

Last time I saw it as significant was during the 1970s.

[MNJohnnie]

Sorry you had no better luck on coherence or content on that one either. Do keep trying.

[Grampa Dave]

[Protagoras]

Wheeeeeeee!!!!!!