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Peru finds ancient burial cave of warrior tribe - Chachapoyas, white-skinned aka "Cloud People"
Reuters on Yahoo ^ | 10/5/06 | Robin Emmott

Posted on 10/05/2006 8:11:48 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

LIMA, Peru (Reuters) - Archeologists have uncovered a 600-year-old, large underground cemetery belonging to a Peruvian warrior culture, thought to be the first discovery of its kind, an official said on Thursday.

After a tip-off from a farmer in Peru's northern Amazon jungle, archeologists from Peru's National Culture Institute last week found the 820-feet-(250-meter)deep cave that was used for burial and worship by the Chachapoyas tribe.

So far archeologists have found five mummies, two of which are intact with skin and hair, as well as ceramics, textiles and wall paintings, the expedition's leader and regional cultural director Herman Corbera told Reuters.

"This is a discovery of transcendental importance. We have found these five mummies but I believe there could be many more," Corbera said. "We think this is the first time any kind of underground burial site this size has been found belonging to Chachapoyas or other cultures in the region," he added.

The Chacapoyas, a white-skinned tribe known as the "Cloud People" by the Incas because of the cloud forests they inhabited in northern Peru, ruled the area from around 800 AD to around 1475, when they were conquered by the Incas.

GREAT WARRIORS

But their strong resistance to the Incas, who built an empire ranging from northern Ecuador to southern Chile from the 1400s until the Spanish conquest of the 1530s, earned them a reputation as great warriors.

They are best-known today by tourists for their stone citadel Kuelap, near the modern town of Chachapoyas.

In 1996, archeologists found six ancient burial houses containing several mummies, thought to belong to the Chachapoyas.

"The remote site for this cemetery tells us that the Chachapoyas had enormous respect for their ancestors because they hid them away for protection," Corbera said.

"Locals call the cave Iyacyecuj, or Enchanted Water in Quechua, because of its spiritual importance and its underground rivers," he added.

Corbera said the walls in the limestone cave near the mummies were covered with wall paintings of faces and warrior-like figures that may have been drawn to ward off intruders and evil spirits.

"The idea now is to turn this cave into a museum, but we've got a huge amount of research to do first and protecting the site is a big issue," Corbera said, adding that looters had already vandalized a small part of the cave in search of mummies or gold.

Archeologists have uncovered thousands of mummies in Peru in recent years, mostly from the Inca culture five centuries ago, including about 2,000 unearthed from under a shantytown near the capital Lima in 2002.

One of Peru's most famous mummies is "Juanita the Ice Maiden," a girl preserved in ice on a mountain.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ancient; burial; cave; chachapoyas; godsgravesglyphs; peru; tribe; warrior

One of the five mummies that archeologists found in Peru October 2, 2006. Archeologists have uncovered a 600-year-old, large underground cemetery belonging to a Peruvian warrior culture, thought to be the first discovery of its kind, an official said on Thursday. After a tip-off from a farmer in Peru's northern Amazon jungle, archeologists from Peru's National Culture Institute last week found the 820-feet-(250-meter)deep cave that was used for burial and worship by the Chachapoyas tribe. Picture taken October 2, 2006. REUTERS/Stringer (PERU)


1 posted on 10/05/2006 8:11:49 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge

Some of the five mummies that archeologists found in Peru October 2, 2006. Archeologists have uncovered a 600-year-old, large underground cemetery belonging to a Peruvian warrior culture, thought to be the first discovery of its kind, an official said on Thursday. After a tip-off from a farmer in Peru's northern Amazon jungle, archeologists from Peru's National Culture Institute last week found the 820-feet-(250-meter)deep cave that was used for burial and worship by the Chachapoyas tribe. Picture taken October 2, 2006. QUALITY FROM SOURCE REUTERS/Stringer (PERU)


2 posted on 10/05/2006 8:12:30 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ......Help the "Pendleton 8' and families -- http://www.freerepublic.com/~normsrevenge/)
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To: blam; SunkenCiv

GGG ping...


3 posted on 10/05/2006 8:12:41 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Every single day provides at least one new reason to hate the mainstream media...)
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To: blam
The Chacapoyas, a white-skinned tribe known as the "Cloud People" by the Incas because of the cloud forests they inhabited in northern Peru, ruled the area from around 800 AD to around 1475, when they were conquered by the Incas.

Extreme eastern Celts??

4 posted on 10/05/2006 8:15:29 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Every single day provides at least one new reason to hate the mainstream media...)
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http://www.inkanatura.com/interiorchachapoyaskuelap.asp

5 posted on 10/05/2006 8:18:08 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ......Help the "Pendleton 8' and families -- http://www.freerepublic.com/~normsrevenge/)
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To: NormsRevenge

bump


6 posted on 10/05/2006 8:18:17 PM PDT by lesser_satan (EKTHELTHIOR!!!)
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To: Pharmboy

Could be.


7 posted on 10/05/2006 8:18:41 PM PDT by YdontUleaveLibs
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To: NormsRevenge

BTTT


8 posted on 10/05/2006 8:27:00 PM PDT by AliVeritas (Gay democrats... you are about to go the way of blacks for illegals votes... your party.)
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To: NormsRevenge

Could this be the burial ground of the "Wild Tchapatulas"?


9 posted on 10/05/2006 8:28:34 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: NormsRevenge

Wait, I thought the Incas were innocent natives conquered ruthlessley by Europeans? They couldn't possibly have conquered another tribe? \s


10 posted on 10/05/2006 8:31:30 PM PDT by Slowsky
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To: Pharmboy
They even had their own logo...

11 posted on 10/05/2006 8:34:24 PM PDT by keithtoo (Moveon.org is a cult, Freerepublic is the cure.....)
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To: Pharmboy; NormsRevenge; Coyoteman
Excellent find.

Not much is known about the Chapapoyas. It sure would be nice if we could get a DNA sample from one of these mummies and compare it with 9,400 year old Spirit Cave Man and the 8,000 year old Windover mummies found in Florida.

Something I posted previously on the Chapapoyas:

Pre-Inca Ruins Emerging From Peru's Cloud Forest (Chapapoyas)

12 posted on 10/05/2006 9:23:04 PM PDT by blam
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To: Pharmboy; All

"Extreme eastern Celts?"

It will be interesting to see if DNA studies can be made and determination made of their origin. Other candidates beside Celts, might be Iberians, or Scandinavians.


13 posted on 10/05/2006 9:25:32 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: Pharmboy

I think they invented toilet paper.


14 posted on 10/05/2006 9:28:57 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (If I had a nut allergy, I'd be outta here. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: NormsRevenge; Pharmboy; blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 24Karet; ...
Thanks Pharmboy for the ping, and NormsRevenge for the topic.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

15 posted on 10/05/2006 9:29:54 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (If I had a nut allergy, I'd be outta here. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: NormsRevenge

2004: Top (Archaeological) Finds On Bolivian Highlands

“By comparing small details, such as clothing, headgear, jewellery and even facial characteristics, to other finds from the highland area, we can actually start drawing conclusions about the ethnic identities of the people who lived there at the time. The discovery also provides new information on the relationship between the Inca and Tiwanaku cultures,” Korpisaari says. "

16 posted on 10/05/2006 9:34:14 PM PDT by blam
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To: gleeaikin
"Other candidates beside Celts, might be Iberians, or Scandinavians."

King Solomon's miners? (Ofir)

17 posted on 10/05/2006 9:36:30 PM PDT by blam
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To: NormsRevenge

Interesting find. I have read that these White Indian tribes could be related to Basques, Celts, Berber, Guanche, and Dals. I wonder if Anasazi could be related to them too? I have seen Anasazi relics and they look very Celtic like.


18 posted on 10/05/2006 11:27:23 PM PDT by Ptarmigan (Ptarmigans will rise again!)
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To: SunkenCiv; blam

http://www.inkanatura.com/interiorchachapoyaskuelap.asp

remind you of anything?

19 posted on 10/06/2006 4:47:38 AM PDT by Fred Nerks (ENEMY + MEDIA = ENEMEDIA)
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To: keithtoo

LOL!


20 posted on 10/06/2006 7:01:58 AM PDT by BenLurkin ("The entire remedy is with the people." - W. H. Harrison)
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: Fred Nerks
"remind you of anything?"

Easter Island.

22 posted on 10/06/2006 7:06:47 AM PDT by blam
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To: NormsRevenge

Oh, c'mon, it's just the missing tribe of Israel. ;^)


23 posted on 10/06/2006 7:11:03 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: Fred Nerks

:') Bingo.


24 posted on 10/06/2006 10:11:30 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (If I had a nut allergy, I'd be outta here. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Ptarmigan

You may have something with that Basque connection. Here is an excerpt from a book called "Cod".


http://us.penguingroup.com/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,9780140275018,00.html?sym=EXC

Cod
A Biography of the Fish that Changed the World
Mark Kurlansky - Author




$14.00 add to cart view cart




Book: Paperback | 5.27 x 7.12in | 304 pages | ISBN 9780140275018 | 01 Jul 1998 | Penguin






A delightful romp through history with all its economic forces laid bare, Cod is the biography of a single species of fish, but it may as well be a world history with this humble fish as its recurring main character. Cod, it turns out, is the reason Europeans set sail across the Atlantic, and it is the only reason they could. What did the Vikings eat in icy Greenland and on the five expeditions to America recorded in the Icelandic sagas? Cod, frozen and dried in the frosty air, then broken into pieces and eaten like hardtack. What was the staple of the medieval diet? Cod again, sold salted by the Basques, an enigmatic people with a mysterious, unlimited supply of cod. As we make our way through the centuries of cod history, we also find a delicious legacy of recipes, and the tragic story of environmental failure, of depleted fishing stocks where once their numbers were legendary. In this lovely, thoughtful history, Mark Kurlansky ponders the question: Is the fish that changed the world forever changed by the world's folly?
1: The Race to Codlandia

He said it must be Friday, the day he could not sell anything except servings of a fish known in Castile as pollock or in Andalusia as salt cod.

—Miguel de Cervantes,
Don Quixote, 1605-1616

A medieval fisherman is said to have hauled up a three-foot-long cod, which was common enough at the time. And the fact that the cod could talk was not especially surprising. But what was astonishing was that it spoke an unknown language. It spoke Basque.

This Basque folktale shows not only the Basque attachment to their orphan language, indecipherable to the rest of the world, but also their tie to the Atlantic cod, Gadus morhua, a fish that has never been found in Basque or even Spanish waters.

The Basques are enigmatic. They have lived in what is now the northwest corner of Spain and a nick of the French southwest for longer than history records, and not only is the origin of their language unknown, but the origin of the people themselves remains a mystery also. According to one theory, these rosy-cheeked, dark-haired, long-nosed people were the original Iberians, driven by invaders to this mountainous corner between the Pyrenees, the Cantabrian Sierra, and the Bay of Biscay. Or they may be indigenous to this area.
....

Basques have been able to maintain this stubborn independence, despite repression and wars, because they have managed to preserve a strong economy throughout the centuries. Not only are Basques shepherds, but they are also a seafaring people, noted for their successes in commerce. During the Middle Ages, when Europeans ate great quantities of whale meat, the Basques traveled to distant unknown waters and brought back whale. They were able to travel such distances because they had found huge schools of cod and salted their catch, giving them a nutritious food supply that would not spoil on long voyages.

Basques were not the first to cure cod. Centuries earlier, the Vikings had traveled from Norway to Iceland to Greenland to Canada, and it is not a coincidence that this is the exact range of the Atlantic cod.
....

Eirik colonized this inhospitable land and then tried to push on to new discoveries. But he injured his foot and had to be left behind. His son, Leifur, later known as Leif Eiriksson, sailed on to a place he called Stoneland, which was probably the rocky, barren Labrador coast. "I saw not one cartload of earth, though I landed many places," Jacques Cartier would write of this coast six centuries later. From there, Leif's men turned south to "Woodland" and then "Vineland." The identity of these places is not certain. Woodland could have been Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, or Maine, all three of which are wooded. But in Vineland they found wild grapes, which no one else has discovered in any of these places.

The remains of a Viking camp have been found in Newfoundland. It is perhaps in that gentler land that the Vikings were greeted by inhabitants they found so violent and hostile that they deemed settlement impossible, a striking assessment to come from a people who had been regularly banished for the habit of murdering people. More than 500 years later the Beothuk tribe of Newfoundland would prevent John Cabot from exploring beyond crossbow range of his ship. The Beothuk apparently did not misjudge Europeans, since soon after Cabot, they were enslaved by the Portuguese, driven inland, hunted by the French and English, and exterminated in a matter of decades.

How did the Vikings survive in greenless Greenland and earthless Stoneland? How did they have enough provisions to push on to Woodland and Vineland, where they dared not go inland to gather food, and yet they still had enough food to get back? What did these Norsemen eat on the five expeditions to America between 985 and 1011 that have been recorded in the Icelandic sagas? They were able to travel to all these distant, barren shores because they had learned to preserve codfish by hanging it in the frosty winter air until it lost four-fifths of its weight and became a durable woodlike plank. They could break off pieces and chew them, eating it like hardtack. Even earlier than Eirik's day, in the ninth century, Norsemen had already established plants for processing dried cod in Iceland and Norway and were trading the surplus in northern Europe.

The Basques, unlike the Vikings, had salt, and because fish that was salted before drying lasted longer, the Basques could travel even farther than the Vikings. They had another advantage: The more durable a product, the easier it is to trade. By the year 1000, the Basques had greatly expanded the cod markets to a truly international trade that reached far from the cod's northern habitat.

In the Mediterranean world, where there were not only salt deposits but a strong enough sun to dry sea salt, salting to preserve food was not a new idea. In preclassical times, Egyptians and Romans had salted fish and developed a thriving trade. Salted meats were popular, and Roman Gaul had been famous for salted and smoked hams. Before they turned to cod, the Basques had sometimes salted whale meat; salt whale was found to be good with peas, and the most prized part of the whale, the tongue, was also often salted.

Until the twentieth-century refrigerator, spoiled food had been a chronic curse and severely limited trade in many products, especially fish. When the Basque whalers applied to cod the salting techniques they were using on whale, they discovered a particularly good marriage because the cod is virtually without fat, and so if salted and dried well, would rarely spoil. It would outlast whale, which is red meat, and it would outlast herring, a fatty fish that became a popular salted item of the northern countries in the Middle Ages.

Even dried salted cod will turn if kept long enough in hot humid weather. But for the Middle Ages it was remarkably long-lasting--a miracle comparable to the discovery of the fast-freezing process in the twentieth century, which also debuted with cod. Not only did cod last longer than other salted fish, but it tasted better too. Once dried or salted--or both--and then properly restored through soaking, this fish presents a flaky flesh that to many tastes, even in the modern age of refrigeration, is far superior to the bland white meat of fresh cod. For the poor who could rarely afford fresh fish, it was cheap, high-quality nutrition.

Catholicism gave the Basques their great opportunity. The medieval church imposed fast days on which sexual intercourse and the eating of flesh were forbidden, but eating "cold" foods was permitted. Because fish came from water, it was deemed cold, as were waterfowl and whale, but meat was considered hot food. The Basques were already selling whale meat to Catholics on "lean days," which, since Friday was the day of Christ's crucifixion, included all Fridays, the forty days of Lent, and various other days of note on the religious calendar. In total, meat was forbidden for almost half the days of the year, and those lean days eventually became salt cod days. Cod became almost a religious icon--a mythological crusader for Christian observance.

The Basques were getting richer every Friday. But where was all this cod coming from? The Basques, who had never even said where they came from, kept their secret. By the fifteenth century, this was no longer easy to do, because cod had become widely recognized as a highly profitable commodity and commercial interests around Europe were looking for new cod grounds. There were cod off of Iceland and in the North Sea, but the Scandinavians, who had been fishing cod in those waters for thousands of years, had not seen the Basques. The British, who had been fishing for cod well offshore since Roman times, did not run across Basque fishermen even in the fourteenth century, when British fishermen began venturing up to Icelandic waters. The Bretons, who tried to follow the Basques, began talking of a land across the sea.

In the 1480s, a conflict was brewing between Bristol merchants and the Hanseatic League. The league had been formed in thirteenth-century Lubeck to regulate trade and stand up for the interests of the merchant class in northern German towns. Hanse means "fellowship" in Middle High German. This fellowship organized town by town and spread throughout northern Europe, including London. By controlling the mouths of all the major rivers that ran north from central Europe, from the Rhine to the Vistula, the league was able to control much of European trade and especially Baltic trade. By the fourteenth century, it had chapters as far north as Iceland, as far east as Riga, south to the Ukraine, and west to Venice.

For many years, the league was seen as a positive force in northern Europe. It stood up against the abuses of monarchs, stopped piracy, dredged channels, and built lighthouses. In England, league members were called Easterlings because they came from the east, and their good reputation is reflected in the word sterling, which comes from Easterling and means "of assured value."

But the league grew increasingly abusive of its power and ruthless in defense of trade monopolies. In 1381, mobs rose up in England and hunted down Hanseatics, killing anyone who could not say bread and cheese with an English accent.

The Hanseatics monopolized the Baltic herring trade and in the fifteenth century attempted to do the same with dried cod. By then, dried cod had become an important product in Bristol. Bristol's well-protected but difficult-to-navigate harbor had greatly expanded as a trade center because of its location between Iceland and the Mediterranean. It had become a leading port for dried cod from Iceland and wine, especially sherry, from Spain. But in 1475, the Hanseatic League cut off Bristol merchants from buying Icelandic cod.

Thomas Croft, a wealthy Bristol customs official, trying to find a new source of cod, went into partnership with John Jay, a Bristol merchant who had what was at the time a Bristol obsession: He believed that somewhere in the Atlantic was an island called Hy-Brasil. In 1480, Jay sent his first ship in search of this island, which he hoped would offer a new fishing base for cod. In 1481, Jay and Croft outfitted two more ships, the Trinity and the George. No record exists of the result of this enterprise. Croft and Jay were as silent as the Basques. They made no announcement of the discovery of Hy-Brasil, and history has written off the voyage as a failure. But they did find enough cod so that in 1490, when the Hanseatic League offered to negotiate to reopen the Iceland trade, Croft and Jay simply weren't interested anymore.

Where was their cod coming from? It arrived in Bristol dried, and drying cannot be done on a ship deck. Since their ships sailed out of the Bristol Channel and traveled far west of Ireland and there was no land for drying fish west of Ireland--Jay had still not found Hy-Brasil--it was suppposed that Croft and Jay were buying the fish somewhere. Since it was illegal for a customs official to engage in foreign trade, Croft was prosecuted. Claiming that he had gotten the cod far out in the Atlantic, he was acquitted without any secrets being revealed.

To the glee of the British press, a letter has recently been discovered. The letter had been sent to Christopher Columbus, a decade after the Croft affair in Bristol, while Columbus was taking bows for his discovery of America. The letter, from Bristol merchants, alleged that he knew perfectly well that they had been to America already. It is not known if Columbus ever replied. He didn't need to. Fishermen were keeping their secrets, while explorers were telling the world. Columbus had claimed the entire new world for Spain.

Then, in 1497, five years after Columbus first stumbled across the Caribbean while searching for a westward route to the spice-producing lands of Asia, Giovanni Caboto sailed from Bristol, not in search of the Bristol secret but in the hopes of finding the route to Asia that Columbus had missed. Caboto was a Genovese who is remembered by the English name John Cabot, because he undertook this voyage for Henry VII of England. The English, being in the North, were far from the spice route and so paid exceptionally high prices for spices. Cabot reasoned correctly that the British Crown and the Bristol merchants would be willing to finance a search for a northern spice route. In June, after only thirty-five days at sea, Cabot found land, though it wasn't Asia. It was a vast, rocky coastline that was ideal for salting and drying fish, by a sea that was teeming with cod. Cabot reported on the cod as evidence of the wealth of this new land, New Found Land, which he claimed for England. Thirty-seven years later, Jacques Cartier arrived, was credited with "discovering" the mouth of the St. Lawrence, planted a cross on the Gaspe Peninsula, and claimed it all for France. He also noted the presence of 1,000 Basque fishing vessels. But the Basques, wanting to keep a good secret, had never claimed it for anyone.

The codfish lays a thousand eggs
The homely hen lays one.
The codfish never cackles
To tell you what she's done.
And so we scorn the codfish
While the humble hen we prize
Which only goes to show you
That it pays to advertise.
--anonymous American rhyme



25 posted on 10/06/2006 6:46:48 PM PDT by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Kevin OMalley

Interesting. I know Basques have been fishing off the coast of North America. I saw on a web page about that Cro-Magnon Man made their way to the Americas over 10,000 years ago. Cro-Magnon Man still exist in the form of Basques, Celts, Berbers, Dals, and Guanche.


26 posted on 10/07/2006 10:05:11 AM PDT by Ptarmigan (Ptarmigans will rise again!)
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To: NormsRevenge
Strange "technical" thread.
"Chachapoyas" is spelled three different ways in the same article!
27 posted on 01/11/2007 6:42:45 PM PST by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: Fred Nerks

The Argonath? Nah... Too small.


28 posted on 01/11/2007 6:48:37 PM PST by Redcloak ("Shooting makes me feel better!" -Aeryn Sun)
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29 posted on 12/12/2010 1:58:02 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: Pharmboy

I would like to know what the DNA shows.


30 posted on 08/26/2013 5:31:05 AM PDT by ThanhPhero (Khách sang La Vang hanh huong tham vieng Maria)
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To: ThanhPhero; blam

It is interesting that the anthropologists do not do much testing of these paleo-Americans, or, if they do, we do not hear about the results.


31 posted on 08/26/2013 7:10:32 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Pharmboy
You mean like this one:

Half of European men share King Tut's DNA

We did finally get some results on the amazing Florida mummies:

DNA - Windover Bog People

32 posted on 08/27/2013 6:36:03 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Kuelap - The Machu Picchu Of Northern Peru (Chachapoyas - White, blonde haired people)
33 posted on 08/27/2013 6:41:03 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Wow! I never knew I was a relative of King Tut...thanks for the link.


34 posted on 08/27/2013 7:26:33 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Pharmboy

The results might be to “disturbing.” Actually there is no reason that Asian groups could not develop light skin and hair over time. But it isn’t terribly likely.

The Melanesians actually exhibit a whole range of hair color. I tend to believe there was rather more population movement than the Anthros and archaeologists care to let on.


35 posted on 08/28/2013 4:49:11 PM PDT by ThanhPhero (Khách sang La Vang hanh huong tham vieng Maria)
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To: blam

they could getliving DNA from the natives of the region who have light hair and skin and blue eyes. There are a bunch of them.


36 posted on 08/28/2013 4:51:22 PM PDT by ThanhPhero (Khách sang La Vang hanh huong tham vieng Maria)
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To: ThanhPhero
"I tend to believe there was rather more population movement than the Anthros and archaeologists care to let on. "

You get it.

New Lapita Find Re-dates Known Fiji Settlers (Jomon/Ainu)

37 posted on 08/28/2013 9:18:15 PM PDT by blam
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